Aye.
Lets just hope they prove some of the fraud charges and kick 115 out of the league.
Arsenal 2023/24 - Born to be runner up
- Thread starter horsechoker
- Start date
Lets just hope they prove some of the fraud charges and kick 115 out of the league.
If after the PL win in 19-20, if Klopp had won no trophies between then and now he would have been under pressure at Liverpool, definitely.
So you are saying the Liverpool board decided to retain Klopp due to a couple league cups and an FA cup?
Fair enough, we can agree to disagree.
As I said before, trophies are one of the factors at a top club which becomes a formality which matter.
Yeah, I’ve got that. But Klopp’s position never came under threat, despite four years without a PL or CL. I think that’s because it’s obvious that he was doing a fine job of managing Liverpool and was just unlucky that those four years coincided with Pep’s unprecedented domination of the our league.
Whereas you’re saying he kept hold of his job due to a couple of league cups and an FA cup.
That is a pretty wild take.
We shouldn't count on anything really being done legally against City. I am not holding my breath. I dont pretend to understand all of it but why did they not break up some of those charges and start deducting them points already. Everton got charged twice from what I understand.
Instead, it is this massive case that will probably get bogged down and go nowhere. There will be about a 100 greasy hands on that before it is all over. I suggest there was only the thought to portray they were doing something, not actually do anything.
Aa for us, it's going to be hard, we have more limitations than they have.
Instead, it is this massive case that will probably get bogged down and go nowhere. There will be about a 100 greasy hands on that before it is all over. I suggest there was only the thought to portray they were doing something, not actually do anything.
Aa for us, it's going to be hard, we have more limitations than they have.
No...
"You can have a dip like Liverpool some seasons and win nothing but still be challenging. They've won different types of trophies while challenging for the title or the title itself and have gone seasons without winning, but the winning of one odd cup here and there has maintained that success and trust in the squad and manager."
I'd have thought from this you would understand that the context of those cups amongst still challenging for the title and in Europe for example the CL final and amongst the context of his previous PL title and CL title win were keeping him in it because it maintained the success and belief that they could win the title or CL again with him at the helm. They finished 3rd, 2nd, 5th, 3rd after the title win. In that season they finished 2nd, if they didn't get to that CL final or win those two trophies, I don't think it's an absurd claim that he could have been sacked or under pressure for finishing 5th the next season.
Whereas with Arteta there is none of that context as he's only won an FA cup. All you have currently is belief this squad can finish 2nd.
Isn't that better than 95% of other teams/managers?
Klopp is an elite manager whatever the caf may think of him. That we are mentioning him in the same breath along with Arteta is a good sign for me. Personally, I think Klopp had enough of this. He saw the challenge as too difficult, vis a vis City. He might have been smiling for real after the whistle seeing Arsenal come short in the knowledge he made the right decision to leave.
Interested what attacker they target over the summer. That's the area where they need to make a Rice statement signing the most.
At LB Tomiyasu has been excellent in the run in and Timber will be available for start of next season so that position isn't a huge issue.
Very strong in pretty much every other position with many quality back ups.
Will also raise a fair amount from selling squad players like Ramsdale, Reiss Nelson,Tierney, Smith Rowe, Zinchenko and Jesus.
They aren't far away at all from winning the league so just need to avoid making any rash decisions.
At LB Tomiyasu has been excellent in the run in and Timber will be available for start of next season so that position isn't a huge issue.
Very strong in pretty much every other position with many quality back ups.
Will also raise a fair amount from selling squad players like Ramsdale, Reiss Nelson,Tierney, Smith Rowe, Zinchenko and Jesus.
They aren't far away at all from winning the league so just need to avoid making any rash decisions.
The only way to stop City is to do what Liverpool did during 19/20.
Basically, set a pace that even they can't live with.
90+ points should be enough.
You'll have Timber next season + the squad will be a year wiser. Very few of your players are over 30. I think it's only Jorginho and Partey. Elneny is leaving.
Add another 2 key pieces. Maybe a ST.
Basically, set a pace that even they can't live with.
90+ points should be enough.
You'll have Timber next season + the squad will be a year wiser. Very few of your players are over 30. I think it's only Jorginho and Partey. Elneny is leaving.
Add another 2 key pieces. Maybe a ST.
That’s one way of looking at it. Another is that the best 5 players at the club played 35 or more league games this season . Injuries are coming
Havertz and Trossard have both played very well in that central role when called upon.
If they continued to play without a natural ST, I think Rutter (Leeds) would be perfect. Just turned 22 in April. 18 assists this season. Cunha would also be a good false ST option. A lot more expensive though.
Saka needs a decent backup to rotate with him on occasion. He's high risk in terms of potential burnout.
I'd probably give Gabriel Jesus one more season before deciding to move him on. There's 15-20 goals in him if he stays fit.
They definitely need to rotate/rest Saka more. He's the one player they can't go more than a few games without.
Timber will be a big boost. He can rotate with White.
Arteta needs to get F.Vieira more involved next season. I know he had a 3 game suspension and an injury, which ruled him out for a few months. But he didn't use him much after he returned.
I still don't feel the same level of ruthlessness or boundless energy as 2019 Liverpool. They really played out of their skin every game like they were doped up. I think Arsenal had quite a few games that they sleepwalked through this year, getting bailed out by a late Trossard goal. And of course very lucky with injuries. Future looks good, but imo it's not as certain as when klopp lost the league by a point, you knew they'd be back again.
Do you not think that they are ultra defensive with Rice and Partey
Liverpool had a few games they could have dropped points in. But just kept winning every game. A good few of them by a goal margin. It really was freakish stuff.
Then... having won every game (bar the game at OT), they eventually lost 3-0 away at Watord in late February. Haha.
79/81 points until gameweek 28. Crazy.
Outside of Pep’s City, Arsenal just had the second best XG differential of any side since the stat became available in the 2014-15 season.
Nothing is ever certain but the performance levels were objectively very high and given the age of the side and the fact that we’re likely to spend big again this summer I’m feeling pretty good about the future.
I think we had good injury luck but not remarkably so. Timber missed the whole year, Partey almost the whole year, and both Jesus and Tomiyasu about half the season across multiple injuries and recovery periods. We didn’t have many injuries but those we did were major ones that put a lot of load on other players. We obviously kept that other group of core players healthy and that was fortunate. Compared to a side like United our health looks fantastic but I don’t think we had any better luck than City and certainly not as good as some past sides like Liverpool 19-20 or Chelsea 16-17 that won the title while staying almost perfectly healthy.
Nah. The only trophies that matter now are the League and CL and to a much lesser extent the EL.
If Arteta finished 4th and wins the league cup, I'd consider next season a massive failure, a huge regression and step back, nd worse than this season or last. When Wenger was giving the Arsenal the most FA Cups of any club, no one was thinking that was impressive, they were all just laughing at Arsenal for celebrating the "4th place trophy".
The FA Cup and especially the league cup only matter if you're already winning the league or making noise in Europe.
I don't even know why they still need a league cup (yes the correct answer is TV money) but it's just superfluous and irrelevant at this point in history. No one gives shite about who wins it unless it's some Championship side.
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Feck them.
I still remember my friend who gloated me on that time.
How dou you like pie now. And they are probably pissed on city, but they laughed when they fecked us and Liverpool.
Feck you posh london cnuts.
I still remember my friend who gloated me on that time.
How dou you like pie now. And they are probably pissed on city, but they laughed when they fecked us and Liverpool.
Feck you posh london cnuts.
Basically what they did last season but keeping the pace until GW 30 so city say well feck it and focus on the cups
Especially on the day the cheating club overtook Evertons 9 titles. Baffling.
Gotta be smoother to out-Pep Pep. Too much hair in the Arse.
Pretty much
We lost the league imo around Xmas where we were ahead of City by 6 points and then dropped 8 points out of 9. After that City never got off our heels
It's the only way to beat them
I'd have thought it was evident with my posts that I'm talking about maintaining your position as challengers and adding other trophies like the domestic cups or a European title if you don't win the league. I find it hard to believe that Arsenal fans or the board will accept 2nd year after year if you win nothing else in the meantime. You'll think, wait a minute, we can bring someone in now that could get us over that line.
True, it's really baffling to talk about football on a football forum after a day of football!
You used a whole bunch of words to restate what I was saying - that Klopp went four years where he challenged for (but didn’t win) the trophies that matter. And his job was never under threat.
You’re saying that’s because he won a couple league cups and an FA cup. I think that’s nonsense. In fact, it’s becoming increasingly clear that you think that’s nonsense as well, hence shifting the goalposts to a hypothetical situation where Klopp comes under pressure for finishing 5th next season.
If he finished 5th, his job would be under pressure… because he would be no longer challenging for the biggest trophies. Which is my entire point.
I’d usually say let’s agree to disagree, but I can’t even do that in this case, as we already agree about the crux of the matter. For some reason, you seem to enjoy pretending that you don’t, though. Have fun with that.
Some people just see football differently. I love this team and refuse to take it for granted because we used to come 8th and now we come 2nd. I've had very few weekends ruined by my football team's results this season, and we've also gone to Spurs and United (places we have routinely lost) and won. We've popped Liverpool in the league and even beat Man City for the first time in about three millennia. We're up there and we're going to stay up there. Hopefully we'll win a big prize but the joy of football is that you can't be certain about any of it, so just enjoy it while the going is good.
Shall we risk it because we don't have a League Cup? No obviously that's bananas. But if you see football differently, fine.
Shall we risk it because we don't have a League Cup? No obviously that's bananas. But if you see football differently, fine.
I never said that it's because of him ONLY winning League Cups and an FA cup though...sigh. It's that amongst the other contexts. Arteta currently only has the context of challenging with his squad, he has no trophies with his squad. Klopp challenged and won trophies with his squad. Once you have those trophies and years of challenging, you can have a dip and a domestic cup here and there and it can maintain belief/success that they're the right person and can get to the height again. If Arteta continues to just challenge and wins no trophies, I find it hard to accept that Arsenal fans or the board will be fine with doing that year after year, at some point you have to win something. It's quite simple and I'm surprised it's so controversial.
The End.
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Two big priorities will be a long term Rice partner and at least 1 forward. There's talk that perhaps with Havertz form up front, we might pivot from a prime number 9 to more a project number 9 (perhaps a Sesko or Zirzkee). I also think that's partly because the centre forward market isn't particularly great at all.
We did that last season, it's not sustainable. Entire team was burned out by Feb end. This season the approach was different, we were more patient and productive in front of the goal. More squad depth will be needed to fight on all fronts. Team needs to be more consistent in the cups. Arteta have done well to setup first team, now he needs a backup squad which won't drop in quality.
Unfortunately not every club is Man City who can purchase like Kalvin Phillips,Nunes etc for 50m each and keep them on bench.
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I see the "play on until Arsenal score" rule has been changed to "Arsenal are allowed to use their hands" rule. Allowing the winner against Everton was a joke and proves some refs don't know the actual rules
What was Man City's mentality like in the 0-0 and 0-1s against us then? Not good enough. Funny to see he's still sore about it after winning another title though.
I was just about to make this point...Rodri did it for me.
I'm not going to give City any credit (115 reasons for that) and Arsenal deserved the title this year...but Arsenal should have learnt from last season that drawing with City is not enough.
City never drop points against weaker sides when it matters. They are absolutely relentless in that respect. So if you want to overtake them in the run-in, you have to beat them, you can't rely on others doing what you could not.
I'd understand that if we were behind City after that result, but the draw kept us ahead of them at that point . Getting beat at home to Villa is the game that changed that, and ultimately proved decisive.
Arsenal did not draw with Man City last season. We were 0/6 against them. This year 4/6. No one beat City at home, no one has done since December 2022. So bored of this "why didn't Arsenal simply beat City at the Etihad, what a mysterious decision from them" discourse.
We dropped points after that game ffs!
Ah, another "why didn't Arsenal beat City away, are they stupid" post.
Maybe the cheating cnuts should have saved some of that mentality to try and beat Real Madrid instead of drawing with them.