I disagree with Rodri tbh. City took 1 point out of 6 against Arsenal. It’s a nice narrative in his own head but Arsenal took 4 out of 6 points against them. That’s excellent. You could argue they messed up elsewhere but they played those 2 City games perfectly imo.
Arsenal 2023/24 - Born to be runner up
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I disagree with Rodri tbh. City took 1 point out of 6 against Arsenal. It’s a nice narrative in his own head but Arsenal took 4 out of 6 points against them. That’s excellent. You could argue they messed up elsewhere but they played those 2 City games perfectly imo.
Overall yes, it's a tally any team would take if it's just presented like that. Context makes the reading of it slightly different, in that it wasn't just any team, it was the one competing for the title with them, and more importantly for me, the dynamics going into that game were that Arsenal were flying while City were still somewhat unconvincing.
I mean, againt it's a great record for the season and the Villa game was worse, but I find it a bit strange how much it's being dismissed. It could've been a season defining game.
It is however ludicrous that Rodri would be saying that when his team took 1 point off Arsenal this season. Great player but a bit of a knob.
Getting 1 point out of possible 6 against Fulham and 0/6 vs Villa was poor. You can't win all games of course but failing to beat those 2 teams at least once in 4 games is bad when your in title race. Everything else was fine as they won at least 4/6 points against rivals so not 1 defeat in derbies and they beat all the others.
Up against Cheaty FC you have to aim to win every match, you can't play any match hoping for a draw because you will lose. The only valid tactic is to win every match even v.s. Cheaty. This is the realities of the modern day PL: it is not competitive, nowhere close to how it used to be, it boils down to a few crunch matches, the rest you must win or you will find yourself 2nd/3rd.
100%. It's clear where we need to improve. Basically managing games every 3/4 days as we tend to drop points in clusters.
Sesko would be interesting pick up. More of a penalty box player. Basically everything Nketiah threatened to be but didn't become.
He's 25 at the end of this month (Nketiah) so Arsenal squad player is as good as it gets for his career at the top level.
Need to be more ruthless, more focussed and control the pace of those off games a little more. There is still a bit too far of a drop too in performances. We played some great games but we had a few too many weak performances as well. We actually didnt play that well overall from the Villa game onwards but managed to scrape though. We really hurt ourselves back in December.
Still maintain we need a striker but Havertz as of late has been pretty good.
Still maintain we need a striker but Havertz as of late has been pretty good.
I hear you re; context going into the game but I think the other bit of context also missing here is Arsenal's history at the Etihad. I think it was something like 0 points there in 8 years or something ridiculous. So I think taking a draw there was fine. Arsenal were still top of the league after the game and had they matched City's results the rest of the season they'd have been champions. That's easier said than done of course because City are kind of robotic and just reel off 12-15 consecutive wins like it's nothing but Arsenal still did incredibly well to keep pace with them, the only blip being the Villa game.
Before Pep went to City, we'd call the kind of run Arsenal went on post Christmas a title winning run. Pep has elevated the standards so high now that you basically have to be perfect almost the entire season to win the title against them.
Interesting timing for that image. You should leave us to go get your trophy at cheating City?
Yeah I agree with that too. I don't have strong feelings about it either way in any case, I just don't think it should be entirely dismissed as being irrelevant - even though there were other, more important factors that played a role.
This is the strangest occurrence of the Mandela effect, and it keeps coming up on this forum. Somehow everyone seems convinced that City finished 4th in 16/17.
They did not. They finished third, two points ahead of Liverpool.
Selling E. Martinez was their biggest mistake. You don't sell a great keeper for average ones.
It's the same for Leicester. Sell their keeper to relegate themselves last season.
It's the same for Leicester. Sell their keeper to relegate themselves last season.
They should have gone for it at the Etihad, that 0 game was a disgrace. Win that and they're champions, got to beat them home and away to finish above them.
I thought it was a mistake at the time, as I thought he was better than Leno. Personally, I can't stand him, but I would probably stomach his antics more if he was still in goal for us.
Edit: Nope, thinking of it some more, I dont miss him. On the field antics bother me. Not a huge fan of Jesus for that matter.
Why stop there. Might as well just win all 38 games.
Well with the way this city side are built, one might have to
This is true, it seems to be the only way at the moment.
Didn't try to win that game, that's the difference. Just killed the game.
Had a chance to stamp authority and create a psychological advantage
Yeah it's a silly comment to make and one, I would assume, is to make some alternate noise to the 115 problem the league has. Arsenal had a great season, I don't think many people would class them as one of the great PL sides of all time but they should have won the PL this season when you think of how City got saved versus both Arsenal and Pool by the ref.
Agreed. Massive mistake to sell a knobhead that dropped many clangers this season to end up with...the most clean sheets and best defence.
Man City lost 0-1 at the Emirates and didn't have a shot after the 34th minute. They had a chance to stamp authority and create a psychological advantage and they completely blew it.
Also they are champions.
Need to stop with this "bottled the league " crap. They did not bottle it. In fact credit to them for not crumbling after losing against Villa. Fought till the end and lost out to a top city side.
They need to go again and hope things fall in their favor again from injuries pov next season. They have a good squad and some changes here and there and they can do it.
They need to go again and hope things fall in their favor again from injuries pov next season. They have a good squad and some changes here and there and they can do it.
Yeah another reason was that the players didn't believe in themselves enough. Full of talents but lack belief. Guess they need a knobhead E.Martinez in goal so that opponents will miss sitters just by looking at his antics.
Just E. Martinez alone would give Arsenal a psychological boost!
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https://www.eurosport.com/football/...ainst-manchester-city_sto20005988/story.shtml
Sorry to bump this again but just read this today and reminded me of our conversation.
I agree with Rodri.
City wouldn't park the bus against anyone, and back when it was Liverpool competing with them the Scousers never did either.
Arsenal are levels below those two sides. I never once thought they'd win the league.
City wouldn't park the bus against anyone, and back when it was Liverpool competing with them the Scousers never did either.
Arsenal are levels below those two sides. I never once thought they'd win the league.
Exactly! That's why people are missing the point when they point to the result Arsenal got and underestimate the psychological power dynamic and ego of player dynamics. If you go up against someone and sense they're happy to just not lose to you, that's a message, that's being submissive and whereas it's not the end all and be all, you can't say it won't have any mental effect.
Did Arsenal lose to Aston Villa because of the psychological impact of the 0-0 draw at the Etihad? That is what separated the sides after that game. Both teams won every single game other than that.
You are making psychology work like maths. It's like saying did Real's pedigree in Europe make Neuer drop that ball or Bernardo take that horrendous pen? Psychological inferiority or superiority work in abstract ways and it would have affected both teams in different ways. I am not saying it was the difference maker but my point is that that approach, not the result, was in the minus column for Arsenal and plus column for City and that that was unnecessary in my opinion as Arsenal looked good enough not to be that submissive against them. The fact that Rodri is mentioning it can't be for nothing.
Christ I'm tired.
He's talking rubbish because now that they've won the title, he can shoot his mouth. Got nudged along to the title by Oliver and now he's Mr Mentality Giant.
He didn't he say anything right after the Arsenal game because he'd have looked a right idiot if Arsenal then went on to win the title. And that was a very real possibility.
But now? "Oh, that look in Odegaard's eyes totally told me that they would go on to have a bad day against Villa and also I was able to see the lotto numbers for last week in Arsenal's defensive patterns."
looking forward to telling my grandkids about arsenal’s heroic second place finish in 2023/2024. i’d imagine it’s all they’ll ask me about.
If they come to you saying that they're going to become supporters of 50-time title winners City, you kind of have to.
I mostly don't disagree with your actual point. I just find it mystifying you're spending so much energy on this instead of remembering the oil cheats overtook your title count.
Well yeah that would make sense. Because it doesn't have to be the decisive factor for them to win it. It's a movie where one look or wink will change the course of the narrative. My point is that it was factor. You would hear managers talking about games where they felt they registered a psychological advantage over their rivals. Fergie used to say after defeats sometimes that he felt confident we'd win because he saw the mindset of the team and how the belief grew. Arsenal played City like they were inferior to them. Can you beat them after that? Yes as there are other factors at play. But does it help your case? most definitely not.
My issue is that at the end of that game, City didn't have their fate in their hands at all.
If they'd actually beaten Arsenal at home and then like in your example of Fergie, he said "we smelled blood and we went in for the kill", that's more believable.
But what he's basically saying is that after all the mental winning, City were happy to escape a home game with a point.
Arsenal's approach to that game told City and everybody watching "we know you're better than us, but we'll find a way to come out of here with a good result". That's the type of games I referred to Fergie using back in his day. City already feel like that but that was a critical point of the season where the game was built up as a potential changing of the guard because City were not playing well and Arsenal were firing on all cylenders. I know I was expecting Arsenal to show that that day but came away feeling "looks like everybody still treats City like the big dogs in this fight and it's more about finding away against than going for them".
Your point about City not having their fate in their hand after the game makes it worse. They were disadvanted psychologically and if Arsenal had a different more confident approach, it could have created a seed of doubt in the head of the City players. But being as much as told in very clear terms that they are the best team in the league just validated them and helped them (note I am not saying made them) go on and show that supremacy in every single game since.
Fixed your post