Hate, ignorance, bias and a touch of the nuffies. It's the Caf way for the most part.
Thankfully there are still many posters left who aren't like that.
Arsenal 2023/24 - Born to be runner up
- Thread starter horsechoker
- Start date
Hate, ignorance, bias and a touch of the nuffies. It's the Caf way for the most part.
Thankfully there are still many posters left who aren't like that.
I mean the on going joke is that you lot choked but at least you had a legitimate chance at the title.
Only Arsenal and City could say that, no shame in that whatsoever. Especially when you considere the fact that 90% of the people on here didn’t even think Arsenal would make top 4 let alone lead the league 70% of the year.
2nd in a 1 horse race.
Cheers @cesc's_mullet @CannonBalls , your arguments do make sense.
I have watched Partey a lot for Atletico and Ghana, where he could even take the role of box to box and has more responsibility of advancing the ball and even creating.
To me, he's great but Casemiro a different beast altogether.
I have watched Partey a lot for Atletico and Ghana, where he could even take the role of box to box and has more responsibility of advancing the ball and even creating.
To me, he's great but Casemiro a different beast altogether.
I think we did bottle it, mainly due to having a relatively thin squad.
I really don't believe anyone is in a position to beat City out to the title until proven otherwise. They are too good and too well managed.
Though now when I'm looking at the squads the other top teams outside of City - for the first time in nearly 20 years I can finally say, without question, that I'd actually prefer to have our squad over anyone else's.
I don't expect us to win, but we are at least in a very healthy position moving forwards. Our players should continue to improve and develop, and when some inevitably want to leave they will have resale value.
We don't have old players soaking up major wages that we will never be able to shift either.
I feel like United are a few years behind in their overhauling of the squad. They are in a similar position to what we were in when Arteta took over, with some overpaid old players that need to be moved on clogging up the list. The squad needs some refreshing, which may take another season or two.
Gabriel Jesus wasn't that much of a loss I think - Odegaard, Saka and Martinelli score enough on their own to make up for it (they seemed to be fit most of the time!). Jesus has never been a prolific goalscorer anyways.
Saliba was a big miss - and Partey as well.
Injuries aside, I think the prior poster was alluding to perfect storm scenario where Liverpool were a non-factor, United being in transition, City starting very slow, Chelsea being in huge turmoil and Spurs being Spurs was the launchpad for you to build such a great lead in the first half of the season - coupled with early cup exists it really gave you a great shot to go for the league. Then you shat the pants against City in quick succession, dropped points from 2-0 leads, dropped silly point to Soton and some others and that was that.
Arsenal are a young team so they could definitely improve from last year, though I personally think Arsenal will finish third on high 70's
Fair play to arsenal, breaking the bank as soon as they qualify for CL & get a chance. They know this time next season they might not have a chance. Edu seems better than arteta to me.
They need to stop penny pinching and start spending some coin.
Yeah they are strengths of his, especially relative to his contemporaries. IMO he can put in MOTM defensive displays where he's also an attacking instigator. He's a complete one-man midfield when he's really on.
But he can also play like Song Billong on a bad day when he's not switched on. I imagine the off the field drama has been a huge distraction.
Jesus was a huge loss. There is a very large gulf in class between Jesus and Eddie.
Jesus may not be particularly prolific and his finishing is certainly a valid criticism - but he is brilliant at linking up, driving forward whilst dribbling, setting up others, beating a man, creating space due to defenders gravitating towards him, riding challenges (very strong legs and a low centre of gravity) and being a nuisance. He was a 0.74 goal contributor per 90, even during this injury affected season.
He has a winger-come-forward playstyle, but he is a much much better player than Eddie.
Fair point regarding our rivals being in varying positions of transition.
Though I believe there is at least as much natural improvement to come through natural development in our squad than any of the other sides, bar maybe Chelsea. But their issues run much deeper at this point in time.
I think his impact is a tad overrated. Yes, any injury to a starting 11 player would hurt, but my point is despite Jesus attacking contributions, Arsenal still found ways to score. Goals didn't dry up with Jesus absence, Martinelli, Saka and Odegaard kept scoring with some regularity.
If you were to pinpoint the games where you lost the league, I'd say is the loss to Everton in February and then lack of stability in midfield / defense was apparent when you started giving up so many goals. You gave a two goal lead to Bournemouth at the Emirates and then barely recovered, had a 2 goal lead at Anfield and then barely held on for a point, got a two goal lead at West Ham and couldn't hold on, gave a 3-1 lead to Southampton and then barely brought it back. This screams like a team lacking defensive stability to me. The loss at Etihad was a certainty given how poor you had played for the last 4-5 games, but by then the league was over.
Is Rice good enough to cover all those weaknesses? We'll see - he's certainly been billed like the dog's bollix and comes with a hefty price tag.
Teams are always in a certain state of transition though. Utd are only in ETH 2nd season, Liverpool are replacing a full midfield, Chelsea and Spurs have new managers yet again, we look like we are replacing a couple of our starting midfield etc.
So they signed Havertz for £65million and apparently Timber for £35million and Rice for £105million ??
Where did they get all these money from and how are they not constrained by FFP??
Where did they get all these money from and how are they not constrained by FFP??
They've been forced to adjust their budget to the fact they haven't been playing UCL football for years. Now that they're back in the UCL, the European money alone will more than cover for the yearly transfer fee amortisation costs for Havertz, Timber and Rice with tens of millions still left to spare.
Over the last few years since Lego Pep came on they were also gradually lowering their wage bill by getting rid of underperforming high earners and replacing them with hungry and modestly paid young players so up until last summer their wage bill was quite low which is a big help with FFP. Thing is, many of their young players have now grown and developed as footballers and with every contract extension or new signing their wage bill is going up again. The likes of Rice, Havertz, Saka, Martinelli, Saliba, Jesus are now on massive wages. As for their other current key players, when Martin Ødegaard signs his next deal he'll probably go past £250K/wk and Ben White could push the £200K mark as well. Saliba's CB partner Gabriel is also earning peanuts at £50K/wk and will likely get a pay rise too if he keeps performing as he has.
As long as they keep being competitive and qualifying for the UCL football I doubt they'll have too much problems with the FFP but if they hit another slump again, who knows what will happen?
Decent summary to be fair. Gabriel signed a new deal in October, so he's tied up to 2027 as well.
The other thing that people need to bear in mind is the last published accounts which shows revenue was year 21/22. That was a season without European football for Arsenal, so there will be a big jump in revenue for just that. Since then clubs across the board will have seen increased in revenues from new tv deals, with increased prize money, Arsenal through new Adidas deal and other sponsorships, a new Champions League format about to be introduced with more games and more revenue and the potential of x5 teams being able to qualify among other things.
I don't think the Jesus of the second half of the season was as good as the one that was just before he got injured. He seemed intent on rolling around quite a bit and he was starting to frustrate me a little watching him. He still did some things well. His defensive commitment was phenomenal for example but he didn't direct the attack like he did in the first half of the season. Still good though and overall a pretty first season with us, hopefully more to come.
Don't see the point in comparing Casemi...Rice...Partey. All 3 are significantly different. I didn't realize how much Rice carried the ball, I mean I have seen him visually do it for WH but didnt see the stat until now. That's going to o be a great addition from Partey. I think that's what Arteta liked the most from him. That leadership in midfield and willing to move the ball. It is going to create space, new lanes and lighten the load on Odegaard. Partey has different strength. His close ball control is usually impeccable, but his passing range is a little limited for example and he rarely drives it forward.
Don't see the point in comparing Casemi...Rice...Partey. All 3 are significantly different. I didn't realize how much Rice carried the ball, I mean I have seen him visually do it for WH but didnt see the stat until now. That's going to o be a great addition from Partey. I think that's what Arteta liked the most from him. That leadership in midfield and willing to move the ball. It is going to create space, new lanes and lighten the load on Odegaard. Partey has different strength. His close ball control is usually impeccable, but his passing range is a little limited for example and he rarely drives it forward.
It must be nice to get some lovely shiny new players in your squad for the big kick-off. Fair play, interesting to see how the season goes for them.
My fellow gooners, what's the situation with Balogun?
It seems like he wants to play regularly, which is fair enough. We immediately dropped Trossard when Jesus came back from injury, despite him bagging a ton of assists as a False 9. I wouldn't blame Balogun for thinking he's not really gonna get a chance to compete for a place. If we can get decent money for him, I think we should sell. It would be ideal if we could insert a buy-back clause.
Cheers, I'd rather let Eddie go and rotate Jesus with Balogun.
This is broadly correct with the important caveat that the new wage structure set by all these renewals is actually not quite at the level of many other big clubs, which will help a lot with FFP. Saka is probably our highest potential earner but his base is still only 200k per week with bonuses taking it up to 300k per week. Havertz is also reportedly on a 200k per week base plus bonuses going to 250ish, Rice similar. Martinelli is on 180k per week base, probably a little over 200k with bonuses. Saliba in the same range. Gabriel I believe is more like 130-150k. These are all big contracts but not quite the level of a United or City wage structure, which is appropriate given that we don't have the same revenues. Most of these renewals also happened in the last year so they are locked in for 4-5 years and the wages may look more modest in a couple years time if we see continued wage inflation in the game (not to mention regular inflation in the economy).
I agree that the bet is that we'll qualify pretty consistently for the CL during this cycle, which seems fairly reasonable with the expansion to five places. I doubt it would be a problem to miss out once but missing out for several years in a row might be an issue.
The financial strategy is backed by the following factors IMO.
- The lightening of the wage bill (Aubameyang, Ozil, Lacazette, Xhaka, Willian, Bellerin, Mustafi, etc).
- The deduction of losses brought on by the Covid pandemic. Meaning those losses are not used for calculation in FFP.
- The funding of our spending through KSE taking on the debt, resulting in more favourable payment terms for the club, if there is money owed at all. So a financial safety net provided by the ownership if you will.
- A stable management, allowing for time for players to push to reach their potential. This is why I believe Arteta will not be sacked easily, as long as the metrics of progress are being met (like consistent CL qualification).
- Arsenal are also investing in young, high quality players, who are able to turn a profit in 4/5 years time. This not only allows Arsenal to compete at the top level, but also use the funds generated from Saka, Saliba, Odegaard, Martinelli, in their late 20s, to fund the next generation of the team.
I think Balogun and Patino need release clauses or first refusal clauses put in.
And yes, if the money is right we should sell. I would prefer to keep them, but they could fetch us as much as 70m in the market. That would be a superb return and allow us a late push for a Tchouameni, if the opportunity arose.
Me too. I think Arteta would prefer it too. But Flo seems in a hurry.
He really wasn't. If anything you guys looked just fine without him and worse when he came back.
I think it would be more accurate to say, the Jesus of our first 15 games was a loss. He lost form, spent months on the sidelines and then looked pretty rusty on his return.
Sure - but you didn't miss him while he was away (your form was very similar) and if anything he was a hindrance in the run in (but he wasn't the only one that lost form towards the end, Saka and Partey were both issues too). Just challenging this idea that losing him was this big defining moment for your season. It really wasn't.
Balogun will surely leave. There is a chance Nketieh leaves aswell (less likely). But I can't see Balogun staying with all the noises his camp has created.
Yes, I think we know what Eddie can offer now. I would like to see Balogun given a chance. He could also finance another purchase. They are not looking to sell him cheap. Rumour is that Chelsea might be interested. Eddie should be sold imo. Not sure what we could get for him but it would be mostly profit
So I'm on a group with some Arsenal fans and one thing I can't fail to notice, especially over the last 18 months, is the unreal amount of PR around Arteta. There's a deluge of Arsenal players giving inteveews raving about Arteta, or their potential new signings doing it or even the media. I'm a bit confused about this insane PR surrounding a guy who has done absolutely nothing so far.
For years Arsenal did not spend. We had Wenger counting every cent we had and we even made a net positive for transfers while we built a new stadium. I don't think looking back it was the right move but it is hindsight. I will however never understand how we dismantled our great squad of the early to mid 2000s. We should have kept investing in the squad. As it turned out, this was actually also the best way to increase revenues and worth. The new models are not exactly stable but that is where the football is nowadays.
Kroenke (especially Josh I think)is now heavily investing in all his teams and the results are showing everywhere. Long may it continue. I do not want to see 500 mil overhauls but a net 75-100 mil spending from year to year is fairly standard now if you want to keep up.
Kroenke (especially Josh I think)is now heavily investing in all his teams and the results are showing everywhere. Long may it continue. I do not want to see 500 mil overhauls but a net 75-100 mil spending from year to year is fairly standard now if you want to keep up.
£213m.
Smashed the wage structure.
All in with Lego.
Smashed the wage structure.
All in with Lego.
This is a bit dishonest
Mental isn't it, a club backing their manager to the best they can afford to!
Will never catch on!
Not mental no, I just said they have went all in. Nowhere else to go from here. Sink or swim.
Same with every other club and manager in the top 6/7 then really?
But it's somehow true. Over £600m in transfers while never competed in champions league, with FA cup win in his first 6 month, average of 70 points in 4 years.
People are blinded by the 50 points Arsenal took in the first 19 games last season. Put the 50 point aside Arteta average is 30-34 points in 19 games in 3 years meaning 6 split half seasons.
The first half of last season success anomaly, can not be repeated again, because THEY WERE UNABLE to repeat it for 19 last games at the end of last season. Or rather, if they were unable to repeat the 1-19 game winning form, from game 20-38 what makes you think they will repeat it from game 1-38 of the upcoming season?
Even Ole was murdered for spending 300m while winning nothing. Ole was second also and third also.
Even if we gave Ole another 300m to max out to 600m he could not have toppled Pep grip on the league.
He's obviously a very good manager and done a very good job with them. They were Europa League level for years, and he's transformed them into a genuinely top team who play excellent football. That's not easy.
Funny how the Arsenal fans that were calling Partey the 2nd best DM in the league are now saying the same about Rice