Well that Twitter video got shut down! It truly is glorious to watch.
Arsenal 2023/24 - Born to be runner up
- Thread starter horsechoker
- Start date
Agree in general. I think the improvement is really now in the depth and strength of the squad, though this could be mitigated (negatively) if Partey leaves. Ideally we have a midfield core of Odegaard, Partey, Rice, Jorginho, Havertz, ESR, Trossard and Vieira.
no matter what we or any other team do in the PL, city will always remain the strongest.
you could sign Mbappe and Kimmich yet the gap will still remain significant enough.
I still wouldnt be so sure. I think Kudus would be being targeted because he can play as a left footed wide player back up to Saka, which none of Nelson, ESR, Trossard, Jesus are.
However, being versatile means he can games as an 8, as a 10 or even a number 9, whereas if you just buy an out and out wide player, he's always going to be 2nd fiddle to Saka so will be limited in his game time.
Havertz, Timber, potentially Kudus, all have in common that they are able to play multiple positions which increases both tactically flexibility but also their chance to get minutes rather than if we had just bought straight forward 1 position players.
Let's see, we are all kinda guessing so far intrigued by what lies ahead.
Did you link the wrong video, he actually helped Arsenal win that challenge, look like the video has been edited a bit to cut out some of his points.
The shooting volley 1 was the 1 where he bottomed out.
Imagine editing a tricks video to show him in poor light, not even waiting till actual football was played. Chelsea fans must be desperate to see him fail.Did you link the wrong video, he actually helped Arsenal win that challenge, look like the video has been edited a bit to cut out some of his points.
The shooting volley 1 was the 1 where he bottomed out.
I get your point, but everything really had to fall into place for them to get to those 50 points. You had 2 games against United with no Casemiro in the line up, a win against Brighton without Caicedo or MacAliister, a comical Loris own goal to give them the opening goal against Spurs as well as plenty of late winners and goals from set pieces which aren't always easily replicated. They also had barely any injuries to contend with and didn't have to play City in the first 19 games. The second half of the season was clearly closer to their actual level.
I think they've strengthened significantly this summer, but I'd be amazed if they got anywhere near 50 points from 19 games next season.
Wouldn't mind seeing the original video because that one is particularly shocking for a pro footballer. Some of the 1st touches are the stuff of nightmares.
To be honest, it's not really better than this, If Arsenal won, doesn't say much about the losing players!
Funny how Arsenal dropped to their 'actual level' when Rob Holding was playing.
Truth is there's only been 1 or 2 teams in history that have carried out 50 points in 19 games ratio over the course of a full Premier League season, so I'm not sure how much of a slate that is.
I'd hazard a guess that we should be a good 80 point plus team. Whether we can get more let's see, a lot depending on how new sign gs settle, and depending how teams like Spurs and Chelsea perform that we got maximum points from last season.
I mean... that's pretty bad.
Feck yeah, can't even imagine what the other team's looked like...To be honest, it's not really better than this, If Arsenal won, doesn't say much about the losing players!
Yeah I think they've improved the side, and they have a little more depth now in some key areas. Paid big for some players but I think they've been pretty concise in the areas and players they've targeted, their backline now has some really good depth which has been a problem for them in the past.
I think the main hope Arsenal and the other sides have of finishing above City is that City have a somewhat significant drop off after doing the treble and if some of their key players leave, Gundogan is quality and will be missed, and if Mahrez, Silva, Walker leave that's a lot of quality and experience gone. I still think City will win, but I think Arsenal are in a stronger position than they were last season, I think United will build on a promising first seaso for ETH with the arrival of Mount and Onana, add a quality striker and that's a great window with players who very much suit ETH. I think Liverpool and Chelsea will be much improved too, don't think Newcastle will be up there yet but they've been linked with some great players and while the general consensus on here thinks Tonali won't be much of an improvement I disagree with that (though it is a very high fee, but if I had to leave Milan for Newcastle it'd take a lot of money too).
I'm buzzing for this season.
You're kinda scraping the barrel when you're discounting:
- Games where the opposition didn't have every player available
- Games where a shot hits the woodwork then the keeper
- Games where there is a late winner
- Games where a set piece is decisive
Must have managed to get a quick one to one training session with Lukaku before he moved to Arsenal
I watched Tonali last night in the Rangers Vs Newcastle testimonial game, and although he only played first 45 and it's a pre season friendly he was head and shoulders above everyone on the pitch. Nothing headline stuff but you could just see he was making everything look effortless.
If he can get over leaving Milan, he'll have a very good partnership with Guimares.
I read a lot of nonsense on this forum, but this... this is really something
What is United's "actual level" then, since Arsenal had things "fall into place" when playing United, who in your words... "didnt have Casemiro for both games". The same United, who played Casemiro at Anfield and got 7 goals put past them?
If there is any serious aspect of your nonsense above, it is the bit about Rob Holding dropping our level. And no, its not Arsenal's "actual level", its a drop off that impacts any team that plays a system like ours and has to contend with low block opposition 90% of the time. Kinda like your fabled "without Casemiro" would drop your quality off... but of course, that wont be your "actual level".
Long story short... You cannot "fluke" or "have things go your way" for 5/6 months in a season to get to 50 points out of 57. That isnt luck, that is the result of a quality team, that is able to build consist high performances, and out perform any other competition.
Your only hope next season is that there are more competitors for the top spots, which means the room for error drops across the board. That's how Arsenal is stopped on the pitch, outside of injuries.
I didn't watch the game but I heard he was really impressive! I don't normally think the tifo vids are great, but the one about Tonali I thought was interesting. Specifically about how Longstaff is a good facilitator for the side, and while not a very impressive player they often player better when he plays, and how Tonali is a level above but often does the same thing in facilitating his side with his high energy and impact. And I agree I think he'll be a very good partner for Guimaraes. What's your opinion on the Balogun situation, do you want Arsenal to keep or sell?
@bosnian_red made some really good posts taking the opposite stance, which while I disagree I thought he made a good argument as to why he thinks Tonali won't be a particularly good signing, so it'll be interesting to see how it goes.
Yeah it's not so much that he's a bad player, it's just for 70m and for what Newcastle need, it's very much a meh signing. If you're looking to reach the top level I'd say you need more than just some facilitators in midfield, you need specialists who all provide quite a bit either on the ball or defensively. I'm not sure if he's much more than a "6/10" energy player. We'll see how he does I guess.
I read a lot of nonsense on this forum, but this... this is really something
What is United's "actual level" then, since Arsenal had things "fall into place" when playing United, who in your words... "didnt have Casemiro for both games". The same United, who played Casemiro at Anfield and got 7 goals put past them?
If there is any serious aspect of your nonsense above, it is the bit about Rob Holding dropping our level. And no, its not Arsenal's "actual level", its a drop off that impacts any team that plays a system like ours and has to contend with low block opposition 90% of the time. Kinda like your fabled "without Casemiro" would drop your quality off... but of course, that wont be your "actual level".
Long story short... You cannot "fluke" or "have things go your way" for 5/6 months in a season to get to 50 points out of 57. That isnt luck, that is the result of a quality team, that is able to build consist high performances, and out perform any other competition.
Your only hope next season is that there are more competitors for the top spots, which means the room for error drops across the board. That's how Arsenal is stopped on the pitch, outside of injuries.
Yes what painful mind-numbing drivel. This thread had brought out some whoppers lately, absolutely laughable stuff. Some of these posters are surely parodies.
Here's a bit of a review into the respective squad building from Arsenal and United from 2019/20 (inclusive) to date.
At the conclusion of the 18/19 season United finished 2nd, whilst we finishes 6th. In that time since the clubs have spent:
And here are squads that finished the 18/19, compared to the current squads:
United:
Arsenal:
We've replaced our whole entire starting XI and most of the bench. We only have backup and deep squad options as holdovers - El Neny, Holding and Eddie. Eddie was a youth player at the time, Holding will likely be sold and El Neny won't see any playing time barring a disaster.
In contrast the holdovers in United's squad currently, are - Shaw, Dalot, Lindelof, Bailly, McTominay, Fred, Rashford and Martial.
Based on what I can tell Rashford, Shaw and Dalot are all starters, with the former two being key players. Fred and Lindelof will likely remain and be squad options and I expect the club would be listening to offers for Bailly, McTominay and Martial.
* of course ESR, Saka, Nelson, Eddie, Balogun and Greenwood were all youth players at their respective clubs during the 18/19 season.
Make of it what you will.
But I think despite there being some flops in that time, like Pepe, Mari, Willian, Tavares, Lokonga, Soares to a degree, and (IMO) there are question marks over Vieira and Havertz - all in all I think they've done a great job in overhauling the squad.
At the conclusion of the 18/19 season United finished 2nd, whilst we finishes 6th. In that time since the clubs have spent:
Arsenal:
2019/20 - €160.80m
2020/21 - €86.00m
2021/22 - €167.40m
2022/23 - €192.36m
2023/24 - €232.21m
Total - €838.77m
United:
2019/20 - €236.80m
2020/21 - €83.80m
2021/22 - €142.00m
2022/23 - €243.28m
2023/24 - €119.20m
Total - €825.08m
2019/20 - €160.80m
2020/21 - €86.00m
2021/22 - €167.40m
2022/23 - €192.36m
2023/24 - €232.21m
Total - €838.77m
United:
2019/20 - €236.80m
2020/21 - €83.80m
2021/22 - €142.00m
2022/23 - €243.28m
2023/24 - €119.20m
Total - €825.08m
And here are squads that finished the 18/19, compared to the current squads:
United:
GK - DDG, Romero, Grant
GK - Onana, Henderson
LB - Shaw, Young
LB - Shaw, Malacia, Telles
RB - Dalot, Darmian, Valencia
RB - Dalot, AWB
CB - Lindelof, Smalling, Bailly, Rojo, Jones, Tuanzebe
CB - Varane, Martinez, Lindelof, Maguire, Bailly, Evans
DM - Matic, McTominay
DM - Casemiro, McTominay
CM - Pogba, Fred, Herreira, Fellaini
CM - Fred, Eriksen, DVDB
AM - Mata, Lingard, Pereira
AM - Fernandes, Mount
LW - Rashford
LW - Rashford, Sancho, Garnacho
RW - Sanchez
RW - Antony, Diallo, Pellistri
CF - Lukaku, Martial
CF - Martial, Greenwood
GK - Onana, Henderson
LB - Shaw, Young
LB - Shaw, Malacia, Telles
RB - Dalot, Darmian, Valencia
RB - Dalot, AWB
CB - Lindelof, Smalling, Bailly, Rojo, Jones, Tuanzebe
CB - Varane, Martinez, Lindelof, Maguire, Bailly, Evans
DM - Matic, McTominay
DM - Casemiro, McTominay
CM - Pogba, Fred, Herreira, Fellaini
CM - Fred, Eriksen, DVDB
AM - Mata, Lingard, Pereira
AM - Fernandes, Mount
LW - Rashford
LW - Rashford, Sancho, Garnacho
RW - Sanchez
RW - Antony, Diallo, Pellistri
CF - Lukaku, Martial
CF - Martial, Greenwood
Arsenal:
GK - Leno, Ospina, Cech
GK - Ramsdale, Turner, Runarsson
LB - Monreal, Kolasinac
LB - Zinchenko, KT, Tavares
RB - Bellerin, Jenkinson, Lichtsteiner
RB - Timber, Tomiyasu, Soares
CB - Koscielny, Mustafi, Sokratis, Holding, Chambers
CB - Gabriel, Saliba, White, Kiwior, Holding, Trusty
DM - Torreira, El Neny
DM - Rice, Partey, Jorginho, El Neny
CM - Xhaka, Ramsey, Guendouzi, Willock, AMN
CM - Lokonga
AM - Ozil, Mkhi, Iwobi, D. Suarez
AM - Odegaard, Havertz, ESR, Vieira
LW - N/A
LW - Martinelli, Trossard
RW - N/A
RW - Saka, Nelson, Marquinhos, Pepe
CF - PEA, Lacazette, Welbeck
CF - Jesus, Eddie, Balogun
GK - Ramsdale, Turner, Runarsson
LB - Monreal, Kolasinac
LB - Zinchenko, KT, Tavares
RB - Bellerin, Jenkinson, Lichtsteiner
RB - Timber, Tomiyasu, Soares
CB - Koscielny, Mustafi, Sokratis, Holding, Chambers
CB - Gabriel, Saliba, White, Kiwior, Holding, Trusty
DM - Torreira, El Neny
DM - Rice, Partey, Jorginho, El Neny
CM - Xhaka, Ramsey, Guendouzi, Willock, AMN
CM - Lokonga
AM - Ozil, Mkhi, Iwobi, D. Suarez
AM - Odegaard, Havertz, ESR, Vieira
LW - N/A
LW - Martinelli, Trossard
RW - N/A
RW - Saka, Nelson, Marquinhos, Pepe
CF - PEA, Lacazette, Welbeck
CF - Jesus, Eddie, Balogun
We've replaced our whole entire starting XI and most of the bench. We only have backup and deep squad options as holdovers - El Neny, Holding and Eddie. Eddie was a youth player at the time, Holding will likely be sold and El Neny won't see any playing time barring a disaster.
In contrast the holdovers in United's squad currently, are - Shaw, Dalot, Lindelof, Bailly, McTominay, Fred, Rashford and Martial.
Based on what I can tell Rashford, Shaw and Dalot are all starters, with the former two being key players. Fred and Lindelof will likely remain and be squad options and I expect the club would be listening to offers for Bailly, McTominay and Martial.
* of course ESR, Saka, Nelson, Eddie, Balogun and Greenwood were all youth players at their respective clubs during the 18/19 season.
Make of it what you will.
But I think despite there being some flops in that time, like Pepe, Mari, Willian, Tavares, Lokonga, Soares to a degree, and (IMO) there are question marks over Vieira and Havertz - all in all I think they've done a great job in overhauling the squad.
Fred is being sold.
AWB is our starter at RB.
We’ve had more mangers in that 4 year period, so players are often ‘‘given a chance to prove themselves to the new manager’’ - meaning they escape the axe.
Thankfully ETH is sorting things out swiftly.
Chelsea fans already spent 3 years watching him fail- you'd think they'd want to see him succeed just for the novelty factor at this stage!
Yeah, ETH is two years behind Arteta in his squad overhaul, so we will have a much better and fairer idea in two years.
But the fact remains that United have spent nearly as much as us in that timeframe (and that number will surpass ours if you sign a forward), and that's for less of an overhaul whilst also starting in a stronger position.
First trophy of the season in the bag ! Great event by Apple TV, AT&T 5G and Adidas.
Can't wait for the MLS All Star Game presented by Target tomorrow
Hope you are being sarcastic on the first trophy thing. If not, it comes off way too Spursy.
However, I'm also interested in the All Star Game to get a glimpse of the new additions.
I didn't mean for the post to come across as overly critical, but why is the first half of last season somehow more indicative of Arsenal's level than the second when they amassed only 34 points? I'm genuinely curious, because that's actually the most recent evidence we have to go on.
It's obvious to anyone who has watched football for long enough that these small moments that keep going for you can help build momentum, it's a different story when the pressure is on, a few things don't go your way and you wobble a bit. We saw how Arsenal didn't manage to deal with that last season after throwing away consecutive 2-0 leads.
We'll see next season whether or not they've learned anything from those experiences, but any Arsenal fan expecting them to get close to 100 points is going to be sorely disappointed.
Balogun is a difficult 1. Ideally I'd like to see more of him after his success in France and see if he can become a real good option up top.
However, I can totally understand him wanting guaranteed game time, and I can understand Arteta saying we can't give you that.
So I think selling while his stock is high is probably the best option for all parties. We need to get better at selling, and making hard decisions like selling at the right time.
Inter apparently bid €40m for him. I think that's a good offer. If we can get that in pounds maybe with some sort of buy back or first refusal then I'd take that and wish him well.
I’m not saying the first half of the season is more indicative of Arsenal’s level than the second half. I don’t think anybody is.
The only person breaking the season into 19 game chunks and deciding which one matters is you. I don’t find it to be over critical. It’s just arbitrary and somewhat meaningless.
I also haven’t seen any Arsenal fans predicting that we gonna approach 100 points. But I agree with you to the extent that those hypothetical fans are likely to be disappointed. Hypothetically.
Arsenal’s “level” is… the 2nd best team in the country. The beauty of a league system is that this was all sorted out months ago. Each team played each other twice.
Anyone is free to ignore whatever data points they wish to. But you can’t expect other people to agree that the best way to gauge a teams “actual” level is by ignoring half of the most recent league season.
If anything it shows that he's got poor shooting skills and should be played away from the goal instead of at the strikers position.
Now they are linked with Alaba. Surely not, Arsenal are acting like a proper club.
Do you believe every rumour you read online?
He was linked with us 2-3 days ago and now it’s their turn to be linked with him. I wonder when it’s Chelsea’s turn?
Cheers for the answer! Yeah that fee and a buy back clause/first refusal would be a decent windfall, good for the books too with him being an academy product. Shades of Saliba in the way he was loaned out to the French league and then lit it up and having question marks over his head upon his return, but as you’ve described it’s a tricky situation with him understandably wanting guaranteed game time and Arteta understandably not being able to guarantee that.
Swansea went in for him on loan but sadly ‘Boro beat us to him.
And still that was an improvement on their past few seasons. I really dislike Arteta and anything Arsenal related in general, the facts are simply what they are though
What is this twitter craze of posting players playing simple backwards five yard passes and claiming they are Iniesta reincarnated?
I saw Arsenal fans on Reddit gushing at his performance, so I expected something a bit more than a few body feints and simple passes.Yeah, nothing at all wrong posting highlight videos but calm down with the descriptions.
He did impress last night but for me it was more the press resistance and control in tight spaces that actually drew some fouls which aren't shown in the video.
Played exactly where I thought he'd play as well when Saliba went off, as an inverted right back with White moving in 1, and Tierney being the more conventional full back over the other side.
It's not just twitter. We had so many here gushing over Antony doing a pointless spin.