Arsenal 2023/24 - Born to be runner up

Sara125 said:
I know it’s early days but last season they looked more solid. Can’t be out played how they were today by us in the second half of the match (and what I’ve seen of them in general this season) and rely on luck/two good moments. Always catches up later in the season.
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They really don't look like they've particularly improved. I feel long term this Havertz experimentation is gonna cost them points, on the balance of things.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
They really don't look like they've particularly improved. I feel long term this Havertz experimentation is gonna cost them points, on the balance of things.
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Yeah before this season started people pipped them as the ones to challenge city again. Can’t see that happening I’d even go as far as saying Spurs have a better chance.
 
Sara125 said:
Yeah before this season started people pipped them as the ones to challenge city again. Can’t see that happening I’d even go as far as saying Spurs have a better chance.
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Spurs don't have better chance people are getting carried away with Spurs Arsenal would finish comfortably above Spurs .
 
Result flatters them but they were not good. United strangely have regressed but so have arsenal. Game of margins which went in their favour.
 
I’ve never once got the impression that this Arsenal team were anything special last season and my opinion on them hasn’t changed. Fine margins went their way yesterday. On another day, they get beat by a Utd team fielding the likes of Maguire and Evans at the back. Top four battle for them this season, nothing more.
 
AshRK said:
Result flatters them but they were not good. United strangely have regressed but so have arsenal. Game of margins which went in their favour.
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Some regression is expected when you don't refresh the squad (properly, not with Mount, Havertz, etc). Because if you have the same players and same tactics then other teams have already sussed you out over the summer.

I've been telling my Arsenal footy mate that the wonderful, carefree honeymoon season for them is now over. Now the real work starts.
 
SilentWitness said:
Why? All Spurs are contending with is the FA cup.
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Because Spurs lack individual quality to Challenge City I don't think they would even make top 4 which should be fairly comfortable for Arsenal all things considered .
 
Dumbstar said:
Some regression is expected when you don't refresh the squad (properly, not with Mount, Havertz, etc). Because if you have the same players and same tactics then other teams have already sussed you out over the summer.

I've been telling my Arsenal footy mate that the wonderful, carefree honeymoon season for them is now over. Now the real work starts.
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Well not making excuses but atleast United have injuries to content with and finished the game with 4th and 5th choice cb. What excuse do arsenal have.

But again it is a result business and they won and United lost so fair play.
 
Sara125 said:
Yeah before this season started people pipped them as the ones to challenge city again. Can’t see that happening I’d even go as far as saying Spurs have a better chance.
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Both teams looked mediocre yesterday. Spurs do look better but that can change. I think right now Liverpool have the best chance at a challenge to city but only if Salah stays.
 
They blew the best chance they had in 20 years. They had a better chance last year than they will have this year.
 
Sara125 said:
Yeah before this season started people pipped them as the ones to challenge city again. Can’t see that happening I’d even go as far as saying Spurs have a better chance.
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Spurs will do well to finish top 5 come the end of the season. There’s nothing to suggest they can offer anything like a title challenge.
 
njred said:
Both teams looked mediocre yesterday. Spurs do look better but that can change. I think right now Liverpool have the best chance at a challenge to city but only if Salah stays.
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Liverpool got a big slice of luck last week against Newcastle and those are the type of wins you need to get your season started. Same with arsenal yesterday, no way they deserved to win but they go that goal and win.

I would put Liverpool above arsenal to challenge city.
 
Chief123 said:
Spurs will do well to finish top 5 come the end of the season. There’s nothing to suggest they can offer anything like a title challenge.
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Better chance than Arsenal at least. Liverpool are defo in the mix and I think chelsea *might* come around.
 
rajds89 said:
I’ve never once got the impression that this Arsenal team were anything special last season and my opinion on them hasn’t changed. Fine margins went their way yesterday. On another day, they get beat by a Utd team fielding the likes of Maguire and Evans at the back. Top four battle for them this season, nothing more.
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Completely agree - for all the money spent I think they are about the same as what they were and will finish a way off from City. There are a lot of big names teams who look very 'normal' this season and we could have a really tight race for the top 4 Cl spots outside of City.
 
Sara125 said:
Better chance than Arsenal at least. Liverpool are defo in the mix and I think chelsea *might* come around.
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Arsenal will be worse than last season but still have a better chance than spurs. Spurs were mediocre against Brentford first game and got out of jail against us. They’ve done nothing so far to suggest they’ll challenge for a title. The only signs are they’ll have a positive season playing better football than the shite they’ve been serving up. 5th would be a brilliant outcome for them.
 
AshRK said:
Well not making excuses but atleast United have injuries to content with and finished the game with 4th and 5th choice cb. What excuse do arsenal have.

But again it is a result business and they won and United lost so fair play.
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We were without Partey who is arguably our most crucial player. Last season when we played you without him at OT, we lost 3-1. I was worried when I heard he was injured again but so pleased we got the result and put in a decent performance without him. We also have Zinchenko just coming back from injury (and unable to last the full 90) and Jesus who didn't start. No doubt you have bigger injury issues at the minute but we did not have our best 11 either.

We should have put the game to bed before Garnacho's disallowed goal. Saka missed a great chance to make it 2-1, shooting straight at Onana. Our finishing and lack of ruthlessness has let us down so far this season (like vs Fulham); we haven't quite clicked in attack. Definitely need to improve and I think we're slowly doing so in that regard.

maniak said:
Isn't this everyone's game while the current city exists?
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Exactly, it's really City's to lose isn't it? The rest of us are just scrapping for top 4. I find it a bit funny that people are making predictions 4 games into the season, especially with 4 teams tied on 10 points.
 
GoonerGirly said:
We were without Partey who is arguably our most crucial player. Last season when we played you without him at OT, we lost 3-1. I was worried when I heard he was injured again but so pleased we got the result and put in a decent performance without him. We also have Zinchenko just coming back from injury (and unable to last the full 90) and Jesus who didn't start. No doubt you have bigger injury issues at the minute but we did not have our best 11 either.

We should have put the game to bed before Garnacho's disallowed goal. Saka missed a great chance to make it 2-1, shooting straight at Onana. Our finishing and lack of ruthlessness has let us down so far this season (like vs Fulham); we haven't quite clicked in attack. Definitely need to improve and I think we're slowly doing so in that regard.


Exactly, it's really City's to lose isn't it? The rest of us are just scrapping for top 4. I find it a bit funny that people are making predictions 4 games into the season, especially with 4 teams tied on 10 points.
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Again, not saying we were better. In fact had we won it would have been unfair but same way I wouldn't say you lot were better. In fact quite poor to my surprise. I expected you lot would wrap up the game soon and we were in for a beating. It was even game between two mediocre sides but one got the margins and won.
 
maniak said:
Isn't this everyone's game while the current city exists?
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It is. People are really in denial about the Bundesification of the Premier League in the Pep/Abu Dhabi era tbh. City have won five out of the last six titles and the last three in a row. Teams that were capable of winning Champions Leagues and getting 99 point totals came and went, and their net impact was to deny Pep's City a single title, without which they'd have won all of the last six.

I don't see anyone getting within 5 points of City this season and that five points is best case scenario, it could very easily be double figures.
 
AshRK said:
Again, not saying we were better. In fact had we won it would have been unfair but same way I wouldn't say you lot were better. In fact quite poor to my surprise. I expected you lot would wrap up the game soon and we were in for a beating. It was even game between two mediocre sides but one got the margins and won.
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That's fair. Think we created better chances and controlled the game for the most part, but of course in transition you can be deadly. We were vulnerable on the counter and that's where I think Partey's absence was really felt. Literally before your goal you hadn't touched the ball in our box. So typical of our games against you - we dominate possession but don't take our chances, then you score with your first chance. But yes either team could have won it and the margins at this level are miniscule. Hojlund was very promising when he came on, so big and physical. Not many outmuscle Gabriel but he did, and could have had a penalty on another day.
 
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GoonerGirly said:
That's fair. Think we created better chances and controlled the game for the most part, but of course in transition you can be deadly. We were vulnerable on the counter and that's where I think Partey's absence was really felt. Literally before your goal you hadn't touched the ball in our box. So typical of our games against you - we dominate possession but don't take our chances, then you score with your first chance. But yes either team could have won it and the margins at this level are miniscule. Hojlund was very promising when he came on, so big and physical. Not many outmuscle Gabriel but he did, and could have had a penalty on another day.
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But that's the thing you guys did not dominate possession in the first half. In fact we had 55% of the ball. I was quite surprised you were letting us have the ball without doing anything yourself. In fact it was our naivety to just sleep after we scored to allow you guys to score. Had we continued doing what we were doing it would have been a perfect boring 1-0 at HT. As for the second half the moment Martinez went injured our playing from back stopped so naturally you get more possession and control. I strongly believe had Martinez remained on the pitch and had we had amrabat to come from the bench it would have beena draw or a win for us. That's why I say injuries cost us the game more than it did for you.
 
maniak said:
Isn't this everyone's game while the current city exists?
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Liverpool at their best could win the league. Under Klopp anything is possible. This Arsenal team can finish 2rd/3rd - this far they’ve not looked good enough to win the league. Last season they played far better football.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Liverpool at their best could win the league. Under Klopp anything is possible. This Arsenal team can finish 2rd/3rd - this far they’ve not looked good enough to win the league. Last season they played far better football.
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I said current city. And it's been 4 games, no one can honestly draw such conclusions.

The whole thing is just weird, the same people who say city are cheaters and no one can beat them are the same people saying arsenal needs to improve or it's a failure on arteta's part. And since improving means winning the title, both things can't be true.
 
gajender said:
Because Spurs lack individual quality to Challenge City I don't think they would even make top 4 which should be fairly comfortable for Arsenal all things considered .
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I think Arsenal will be about 10 points worse off this season compared to last.
 
AshRK said:
But that's the thing you guys did not dominate possession in the first half. In fact we had 55% of the ball. I was quite surprised you were letting us have the ball without doing anything yourself. In fact it was our naivety to just sleep after we scored to allow you guys to score. Had we continued doing what we were doing it would have been a perfect boring 1-0 at HT. As for the second half the moment Martinez went injured our playing from back stopped so naturally you get more possession and control. I strongly believe had Martinez remained on the pitch and had we had amrabat to come from the bench it would have beena draw or a win for us. That's why I say injuries cost us the game more than it did for you.
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I think we were happy for you to kick it around on your side of the pitch. You basically used possession as a way to slow the tempo of the match and take some heat off, not as a way to score goals. All of which is fair play, Onana allows you to do that in a way De Gea didnt.

In the end, it was a very tactical and fairly even match between one side that wanted to use the ball and another side that wanted to hit on the counter. Styles make fights.

I’m happy with how Arsenal played overall. We need to do a number of things better but United are a very tough side for a more proactive team to play against.
 
Powderfinger said:
I think we were happy for you to kick it around on your side of the pitch. You basically used possession as a way to slow the tempo of the match and take some heat off, not as a way to score goals. All of which is fair play, Onana allows you to do that in a way De Gea didnt.

In the end, it was a very tactical and fairly even match between one side that wanted to use the ball and another side that wanted to hit on the counter. Styles make fights.

I’m happy with how Arsenal played overall. We need to do a number of things better but United are a very tough side for a more proactive team to play against.
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This is it. Arsenal sat back, didnt see a threat, without the exceptional Rashford strike there wasnt one. We had two shots on goal, we cannot progress the ball effectively and create from own half. Having said that Arsenal tactics were strangely passive and they were not great by any stretch. A poor mathc
 
AshRK said:
But that's the thing you guys did not dominate possession in the first half. In fact we had 55% of the ball. I was quite surprised you were letting us have the ball without doing anything yourself. In fact it was our naivety to just sleep after we scored to allow you guys to score. Had we continued doing what we were doing it would have been a perfect boring 1-0 at HT. As for the second half the moment Martinez went injured our playing from back stopped so naturally you get more possession and control. I strongly believe had Martinez remained on the pitch and had we had amrabat to come from the bench it would have beena draw or a win for us. That's why I say injuries cost us the game more than it did for you.
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Before Rashford's goal you didn't have a touch in our box. Martial was invisible. I think we let you have the ball more and didn't press as we usually do because for large parts of the game (especially first half), you seemed to just play long. Many times Onana pinged a ball forward only for us to get it back. Your goal came completely against the run of play, but again it's so typical of this fixture and when Rashford's shot went in, all my nightmares playing you lot resurfaced. Yes your squad is heavily depleted with injuries right now, that can't be denied. But you always turn up against us, which is why I never take this fixture for granted, no matter how depleted or poor your form may be.
 
SilentWitness said:
I think Arsenal will be about 10 points worse off this season compared to last.
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That would still put them on 74 points which in my opinion should give them comfortable top 4 finish and cushion of atleast 4-6 points over Tottenham .

I just Don't see Tottenham as a team that would breach 70 points mark despite their decent start .
 
It's laughable when you hear that Arsenal were in title race last year. They came second just like us. The only team to realistically challenge City was Liverpool 2 times.
 
Gordon Godot said:
This is it. Arsenal sat back, didnt see a threat, without the exceptional Rashford strike there wasnt one. We had two shots on goal, we cannot progress the ball effectively and create from own half. Having said that Arsenal tactics were strangely passive and they were not great by any stretch. A poor mathc
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Would agree with this. Apart from Rashford there is very little goal threat, though I think Hojlund will probably change that.
I do agree that you were probably there for the taking and would have liked us to be more ruthless. I think it's largely due to Havertz looking lost right now; we were vulnerable in transition and haven't quite clicked going forward.
 
gajender said:
That would still put them on 74 points which in my opinion should give them comfortable top 4 finish and cushion of atleast 4-6 points over Tottenham .

I just Don't see Tottenham as a team that would breach 70 points mark despite their decent start .
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I think there is more chance of Tottenham getting close to Arsenal than Arsenal getting close to the title this year. I think the lack of Europe for Spurs will help hugely and Ange just feels like an excellent manager who will get them pumped up for a top 4 push. Like Brighton I don't think they'll be reliant on players but their system will punch them up the table. I think Arteta will prolong with this Havertz experiment too long and it will be too late to resolve in the season. They also get very lucky and the stats show they overperformnd hugely last year.
 
maniak said:
I said current city. And it's been 4 games, no one can honestly draw such conclusions.

The whole thing is just weird, the same people who say city are cheaters and no one can beat them are the same people saying arsenal needs to improve or it's a failure on arteta's part. And since improving means winning the title, both things can't be true.
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It's not weird at all, this way rival fans get the best of both worlds. You can laugh at Arsenal for not winning the league and you can write off City's successes as cheating.

It's definitely cope, I remember doing the same thing when Liverpool were challenging City.
 
Well the Caf didn't rate us last year so I'm no way expecting it to rate us this year either.
 
bond19821982 said:
It's laughable when you hear that Arsenal were in title race last year. They came second just like us. The only team to realistically challenge City was Liverpool 2 times.
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You finished 12 points behind City while we finished 5 behind. You also only led the league briefly mid-season (Dec or Jan if I recall correctly), while we were leaders for 75% of the season. It was an incredible bottle job from us, but we were definitely closer to challenging them than you were.
 
GoonerGirly said:
You finished 12 points behind City while we finished 5 behind. You also only led the league briefly mid-season (Dec or Jan if I recall correctly), while we were leaders for 75% of the season. It was an incredible bottle job from us, but we were definitely closer to challenging them than you were.
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Arsenal gave up on all the cups, whereas United got to 2 finals and a quarter final. If we hadn't have gone so far in the Europa league (where most of our injuries occurred) we possibly would have had more league points.
 
maniak said:
I said current city. And it's been 4 games, no one can honestly draw such conclusions.

The whole thing is just weird, the same people who say city are cheaters and no one can beat them are the same people saying arsenal needs to improve or it's a failure on arteta's part. And since improving means winning the title, both things can't be true.
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City are cheats but they can be beaten. And Arsenal need to improve and reach Liverpools peak levels under Klopp to win the league. I don’t know which same people you are referring to.
 
SilentWitness said:
I think there is more chance of Tottenham getting close to Arsenal than Arsenal getting close to the title this year. I think the lack of Europe for Spurs will help hugely and Ange just feels like an excellent manager who will get them pumped up for a top 4 push. Like Brighton I don't think they'll be reliant on players but their system will punch them up the table. I think Arteta will prolong with this Havertz experiment too long and it will be too late to resolve in the season. They also get very lucky and the stats show they overperformnd hugely last year.
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That's fair enough and I kind of agree with this .
I think it's again City's title to lose but beyond that most likely Arsenal , Liverpool and possibly United despite its poor start in no particular order would complete the top 4 when it's all said and done

Tottenham and Brighton would do well but I don't see them making top 4 .
 
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