Are you confident of success in the INEOS era?

Will be a few years before we are on a footing to properly compete at the top if the right decisions are made. That is a big "if", but there won't be quick, sustainable fixes with the mess the club is in. I will feel more confident when Ashworth is in I think, but I don't like what I have seen with the likes of Lindelof and Wan Bissaka being awarded extra years on their deals.
 
Leftback99 said:
We aren't going to beat City (probably not even Coventry). The league Cup was just the result of easy draws.

The top 3 are miles ahead of us and we've blown the money to catch up.

Why are you so sure other managers won't do any better than the horrendous football Ten Hag has us playing?
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I can't tell the future to be certain that we'll not beat Coventry or City or Chelsea. That's the thing about Cup football, upsets happen, strange and wonderful results occur. You must have been fuming we beat Liverpool in the FA cup, no doubt you give us no chance before that match as well.

Everyone started in the League cup, including Liverpool, Arsenal and City and United came out the other end with the trophy. You can want the manager out without being so agenda driven that you can't give credit where it's due.

The reasons why I am so sure Southgate, De Zerbi and Potter won't be the right men for the job is because of their track record.

Southgate, failed as a club manager, does alright at international but with the worst brand of football you could imagine.
Potter, done well at a small club in Brighton, but went to Chelsea and absolutely flopped. Not just results, but his whole demeanor isn't conducive to success. He's far too nice.
De Zerbi, had a great start at Brighton, basically continuing on Potters good work and then this season they've been very inconsistent, on the wrong end of several hammerings as well. I don't see anything in him to suggest he could manage one of the biggest clubs in the world.

Our next manager should be someone that we think can bring us success and a high level of consistency. There's no certainties in life, Jose won a title with every club in his first 2 seasons until he came to United for instance. But we should at least have confidence from the get go, that whoever the manager is, could bring us back to the promise land.

We also need a fan base to be capable of riding a storm and be patient with the manager coming in. Everyone wanted ETH, everyone was saying he needs time, he overachieved last season, this season he's doing badly and everyone wants him out. And I can see the same thing happening to the next manager, the manager after that and the manager after that.
 
Sure, I see no reason to be pessimistic. They've cut to the heart of the problem over the last decade or so which is no strategic direction. We can see that with their appointments and expected appointments.

After this long lacking success you can't point to players and managers as the reason in itself, you have to look at the common denominators that account for those things. So they've done that, I don't see anything else they can do at this stage until the summer.

But it's not going to be simple. It needs investment, time and a bit of luck with signings to see anything good over the next couple years. Could be 3 years to retool correctly, I think you're looking at 6 windows where we need Hojlund like signings. Improving, well scouted players with logic behind them that can grow. Maybe the odd PL experienced player that might not be a long term world beater but will contribute and get some solidity back into this side, that could be part of a stepping stone too. No more Varanes or Casimeros please.
 
Steve Bruce said:
Everyone started in the League cup, including Liverpool, Arsenal and City and United came out the other end with the trophy. You can want the manager out without being so agenda driven that you can't give credit where it's due.
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Simple question is it possible to have easier draws one year compared to another or not?
 
Leftback99 said:
Simple question is it possible to have easier draws one year compared to another or not?
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Of course you can get harder or easier draws, but you get what you get and if you win the trophy you deserve credit.

I don't really know what your point here is? Does ETH get extra credit for putting Liverpool out of the cup this season stopping a variant of a quadruple? Does he get more credit doing that than win the League Cup last season?

To me, it's about winning trophies, whatever way we do it whether its beating, Liverpool, City and Arsenal, or beating West Brom, Norwich and Palace, I don't really care. Beating Liverpool in the cup was great, but if we don't win the FA cup it means nothing.
 
Given that INEOS are apparently building a professional & efficient football structure with quality people, then I'd like to believe in the positive vibe.

This Summer will be the acid test though.
If some of these current players are given a clean slate, and an umpteenth chance to prove themselves, instead of being told in no uncertain terms that they are not wanted here, then I don't have much faith that this is going in the right direction anytime soon.

Similarly with incoming recruitment, and I have previously mentioned Liverpool bringing in 4 new Midfielders for a net spend of around £100m, if INEOS pull something like that out of the bag, then the whole situation could very quickly change for the better.

But it needs to be bold, astute & decisive, and this club hasn't been able to tick those boxes for a very long time...!!
 
Woziak said:
It’s not ok to be linked with Gareth Southgate, Graham Potter, Gary O’Neil, Kieran McKenna as potential new Head Coaches. It’s not ok to be haggling around a few million quid when Dan Ashworth can start and it’s certainly not ok that no set defined roles have been discussed for this new structure!
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I'd say it's OK to be linked with anyone, because there's a difference between being linked and actually wanting that person.

As for Ashworth, we don't know exactly what's going on but I can undestand INEOS wanting to make a statement by now just giving everything Newcastle wants.
 
They said all the right things initially but the fact Ashworth isn’t in place is worrying for me. What was the point if you’re not going to stump up the compensation fee?
 
Poached Berrada, going after the highly regarded Wilcox and Ashworth, Murtough is departing. The football side is finally being addressed with seriousness. If you can’t take any hope from that then there is no point.
 
What they do with the manager will be the biggest indicator - I think ETH is starting to make it impossible to keep him, but if they replace him with Southgate, then I have no hope.
 
Zoo said:
Poached Berrada, going after the highly regarded Wilcox and Ashworth, Murtough is departing. The football side is finally being addressed with seriousness. If you can’t take any hope from that then there is no point.
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Yeah these moves are definitely encouraging. Let's hope they take the same clear-headed approach with the managerial situation, and with the decision to get rid of players who have underperformed for years.
 
Steve Bruce said:
Of course you can get harder or easier draws, but you get what you get and if you win the trophy you deserve credit.

I don't really know what your point here is? Does ETH get extra credit for putting Liverpool out of the cup this season stopping a variant of a quadruple? Does he get more credit doing that than win the League Cup last season?

To me, it's about winning trophies, whatever way we do it whether its beating, Liverpool, City and Arsenal, or beating West Brom, Norwich and Palace, I don't really care. Beating Liverpool in the cup was great, but if we don't win the FA cup it means nothing.
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Point is I don't see winning the league cup as being evidence we're close to challenging (and by challenging in mean for league or CL). It was mainly due to an easy run with some credit for beating a decent Newcastle side.
 
The early moves they’re making are promising. At least we’re progressing to a modern football structure after a decade of the Glazers being lazy essentially.

It’s no longer going to be a Woodward x <manager here> show, and now there’s going to be half a dozen people involved in running things, with the manager just being a first team head coach, assisted from above by directors with varying skills who can identify playing talent outside and inside the club.
 
Yes. Simply because the people they are putting in charge are experienced and were successful before (from my basic research about the individuals, unless I’m wrong).
 
Steve Bruce said:
Everyone wanted ETH, everyone was saying he needs time, he overachieved last season, this season he's doing badly and everyone wants him out. And I can see the same thing happening to the next manager, the manager after that and the manager after that.
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Everyone is quite an exaggaration. He looked like a good choice, worthy of a shot at the job. It didn`t really work out.
But he is not the first manager to look worse after moving out from the setup at Ajax.

And yes, as a club you keep going, both players and managers come and go all the time. If you strike gold with a SAF, Pep, Klopp or similar to that level you try to hold on for as long as you can. If not, you keep going.
 
I don't trust them to bring success. I just have a feeling they are on the Brexit madness with these "footballing" recruitment of Cox and Ashton. I just hope the rumors of Southgate are just rumours.
ETH needs to go but anyone that thinks it ends with him is deluded.
 
Gordon S said:
Everyone is quite an exaggaration. He looked like a good choice, worthy of a shot at the job. It didn`t really work out.
But he is not the first manager to look worse after moving out from the setup at Ajax.

And yes, as a club you keep going, both players and managers come and go all the time. If you strike gold with a SAF, Pep, Klopp or similar to that level you try to hold on for as long as you can. If not, you keep going.
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It is an exaggeration, but it's fair to say it was/is the majority.

Sir Alex as a great manager, he also struggled at United at times, before he won his first big trophy and thankfully our board had patience with him. If he was coming around now and had the same 4 years he had then, he likely wouldn't have lasted the 4 years and if he did, he would have been sacked with most of our fans wanting him sacked. I'm not saying ETH can or will turn it around, but I also think he came in at the worst possible time with how things transpired over the ownership issues, lack of infrastructure, player issues off the field etc.

There is no realistic possibility that in the next 3 years we will be suddenly a top side challenging on all fronts regardless of manager, so whoever the manager is going to be be it ETH or someone else. We need to give them a chance under the proper structures that we appear to be putting in place.
 
Leftback99 said:
Point is I don't see winning the league cup as being evidence we're close to challenging (and by challenging in mean for league or CL). It was mainly due to an easy run with some credit for beating a decent Newcastle side.
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Did you realistically expect ETH to come in after OGS/Rangnick and be close to challenging for the league after 2 seasons? I sure didn't. In my mind, it would take 3 clear seasons to lay the foundations and then in the 4th start challenging and in the 5 hopefully win or be within very few points of winning the league.

The next manager I have the same timescale in my head. It'll take 3 seasons to get the foundation sorted and then in the 4th/5th season start challenging and hopefully winning.

There's no quick fixes no matter who comes in. But will the fans be patient enough to see it through?
 
Cantonagotmehere said:
I have a lot of hope. How can you not? Only thing that is keeping me going besides Garnacho and Mainoo.
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We all hope for the best, but hope doesn't pay the bills. There has to be a clear plan on how to catch city, liverpool and arsenal and only through a good plan, hard work and minimizing expensive mistakes do we have a chance.

I do agree though, Garnacho, Mainoo and Rasmus all give me hope for the future. We just need another 5/6 or more first teamers to compliment them.
 
Steve Bruce said:
We all hope for the best, but hope doesn't pay the bills. There has to be a clear plan on how to catch city, liverpool and arsenal and only through a good plan, hard work and minimizing expensive mistakes do we have a chance.

I do agree though, Garnacho, Mainoo and Rasmus all give me hope for the future. We just need another 5/6 or more first teamers to compliment them.
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Totally agree, my hope involves Ineos setting up a top class structure for United to achieve...I appreciate this will take time. Sorry, should have included Hojlund too, like you did!
 
Hopefully INEOS bring greater nous and use of resources as well as respect for the club. This is a time to speak up for, and appreciate those who supported in leaner times, those who gave all on the field and in the stands, ‘successfully’ or not. Fuvk off you plastics who called for some make-believe oil baron to prostitute the club. Thanks Bruno, Maguire, Dalot, etc. Well done to those who protested.
 
If they give the Pep Guardiola is my idol another season they're as clueless as the glazers and nothing has changed
 
At least they are going after the best in class staff for our most important senior management positions.

The managerial appointment will be the most important one though.
 
I don't really see any material reason to be either optimistic, nor I suppose pessimistic, as yet. We are certainly a long way off.
 
I'm confident. Simply because things in football can seem a mile off, when in reality they arent. With the turnover this club have, the type of best in class appointments at board level could do wonders with us. Arsenal looked well off it for years. Liverpool did. Chelsea do now. Things can change. Giants can wake up. That was never going to happen under footballing control of the Glazers. Now? Certainly.

At the moment its still the same people on and off the pitch. It may take 3-4 years, but bad times dont last.
 
The only thing they have done that was impressive, so far, was recruitting Berrada. He hasn't even started yet, so way too early to judge.

Not impressed by Ashworth signing, especially considering he may not be able to join any time soon and it may ruin our Summer transfer. Neither am I impressed by their "strategic" review, that is taking forever and seems to have no useful take-aways.
 
More so than at anytime since Fegie left. Ineos don‘t care about the share price or market value in near term. Therefore they can break player power at United in a way Glazers never did.
 
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The way they are dragging out the signings of possible Football people to work above the manager like Dan Ashworth and Jason Wilcox instead of sitting down with their current clubs and thrashing out a deal for them or moving on if they arnt available to us is reminicent of the way we spent whole summers chasing the signings of the likes of De Jong and Fabregas only to miss out on them and have to pannick buy, I hope we dont end up missing out on Ashworth and Wilcox then ending up appointing someone else at the last minute and being no better off than we already are.

Sir Jim should look at the way Liverpool have gone about their business swiftly and quietly bringing back Michael Edwards, signing the Sporting Director from Bournemouth, and almost have a new manager lined up all without any drawn out saga like the ones we've had with Ashworth and Wilcox.
 
I had no comfidence initially. Mainly because I didn't want to get over-hyped and left bitterly disappointed if it goes tits up. I still see this as a factor. Unfortunately, the dithering over staff appointmenrs like Wilcox and Ashworth, the lacadaisical approach to the manager's future, the links to awful managers like Potter and Southgate have me even less confident.

It fes like they have learnt nothing from their other, non-successful I might add, football ventures.
 
G-manc said:
They said all the right things initially but the fact Ashworth isn’t in place is worrying for me. What was the point if you’re not going to stump up the compensation fee?
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Newcastle are taking the piss though if they really are asking for £20m, the club can't be paying that for a Director of Football. Would send out the signal that Inoes are mugs that will pay anything for a quick deal.
 
jem said:
What they do with the manager will be the biggest indicator - I think ETH is starting to make it impossible to keep him, but if they replace him with Southgate, then I have no hope.
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Starting?

He started the process about 6 months ago to be fair.
 
I Am Zlatan said:
Yes. Simply because the people they are putting in charge are experienced and were successful before (from my basic research about the individuals, unless I’m wrong).
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This is roughly where I am

It’s going to take a while to build up a squad which will challenge for the title and we can realistically compare to the Fergie teams. But what they can get in place much quicker is ensuring the staff at United are the best possible and capable of rebuilding United into a great team again.
 
stevoc said:
Newcastle are taking the piss though if they really are asking for £20m, the club can't be paying that for a Director of Football. Would send out the signal that Inoes are mugs that will pay anything for a quick deal.
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If he’s as good as they think he is, surely he’d save that on transfer negotiations.

Who are we proposing runs our transfer window?
 
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