Are you confident of success in the INEOS era?

bosnian_red said:
The people who have been hired to make the calls aren't starting this summer unfortunately.

There isn't much to judge Ratcliffe on. He's come in, and hired good people in positions that we've lacked. Its the jobs of those people now basically.
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That does NOT prevent Ratcliffe and Brailsford from finding someone as an interim.

Would we have better chances of ending the season on a high and perhaps win the FA Cup with Ten Hag as the manager? Or would our chances be improved with someone else at the helm for the next 2 months instead? Chelsea used to have Guus Hiddink just for that kind of assignment.
 
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RedDevilQuebecois said:
That does prevent Ratcliffe and Brailsford from finding someone as an interim.

Would we have better chances of ending the season on a high and perhaps win the FA Cup with Ten Hag as the manager? Or would our chances be improved with someone else at the helm for the next 2 months instead? Chelsea used to have Guus Hiddink just for that kind of assignment.
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Different case. The time for an interim was November or December if we felt it was worth the panic or that we could salvage it. At this point it's pointless. If we play vs Chelsea, Ten Hag has a good record against them. If it's against city, we'll probably lose regardless of manager because it's Pep and City. An interim is only brought in if it's untenable, the squad is against the manager, and you feel like you can realistically salvage the season with somebody else just based on vibes.
 
Honestly, I’m not that optimistic anymore. Maybe it’s just because of yesterday’s game but feck me, I’ve resigned myself to the fact that we’ll probably never be one of the top dogs again. I really hope that that’s not true and we can actually compete from next season onward. I want a new manager who can actually show improvement, à la Klopp in his first seasons at Liverpool, and players who actually give a shit. Is that too much to ask for?
 
The way they handle our failing manager will determine my confidence in them.
 
noodlehair said:
No.

Until there is a plan I can't place any confidence in whatever that plan is. PR interview spin amd 'Wembley of the north" eubbish does not constitute a plan.
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What kind of plan do you want? I don't think any club makes their plans public.
 
Phil said:
The way they handle our failing manager will determine my confidence in them.
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Him and a big chunk of the squad. I will only be fully confident in INEOS if they make any movie from "The Purge" series look like a cakewalk compared to the number of faces that have to be purged out.
 
Depends IF we have a manager who can motivate players to run through a brick wall for him
 
Yes, I am confident. But we need to do things in the correct sequence. The hiring of the manager should be done by the experts we have brought in.
 
Pretty impossible to make any judgement until we see a period where you'd actually judge them. Clearly they're not responsible for what's happening on the pitch right now, and same goes for if things were going well.

Recruitment of some good backroom operators is positive, but think we can only make predictions from what we see in the off season.
 
The fact we’ve been shit on a stick since they came in is indicative of nothing. We were before. The decisions so far made above have seemed like good ones. We will know more in the Summer. I’m confident as the club is still so huge and this naive feeling that the cream always rises. They should be aiming for 3-4 years time though when there’s no Klopp or Pep.
 
Sanchez7 said:
He will be fired as soon as we can’t get top 4 mathematically. I reckon United have a clause in the contract that makes it cheaper to sack him if he doesn’t make top 4.
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That would be penny wise and pound foolish of them, and would make me very pessimistic about the way the club is going to be run. Perhaps now it's too late, but just a few weeks ago the season could've still been salvaged with an interim. The incremental benefit of qualifying for the CL next season would surely outweigh the incremental cost of having to terminate ETH's contract early.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
No.
We've had the comments about not wanting to spend big to buy the worlds best players, nothing was done about ETH, so now weve missed out on next years champions league, and now the rumors about Southgate.
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:lol:
The clubs been average to crap for 10 years. Maybe give them som time to change things first.
 
We'll find out. They'll need time to get it right and we have no choice but to have faith.

However, not impressed so far. I think they dropped the ball on not sacking ETH during/after the holiday schedule. I think they should have tried to get an interim in and gone for that CL spot.
 
Insanity said:
We'll find out. They'll need time to get it right and we have no choice but to have faith.

However, not impressed so far. I think they dropped the ball on not sacking ETH during/after the holiday schedule. I think they should have tried to get an interim in and gone for that CL spot.
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It would have been a very brave decision to sack Ten Hag at that point. Certainly after the Villa comeback game.

I'll make a similar point I made on the other thread.

People correctly keep demanding long term strategic planning but most are too impatient. Short term/temporary solutions don't work and cause longer term issues.

People are demanding 90% of the team are sold because they're rubbish and want this sorted immediately..

INEOS needs to design a medium/long term plan and implement/develop a football (alongside a wider organisational) strategy based on that.

Even if that means a crap few months, fine. It's been a mostly crap 11 years. We'll benefit from longer term thinking for once.
 
Never have been. I've been pleasantly surprised that they have started to tackle some of the issues higher up, but equally unsurpassed that they've allowed EtH to get away with dragging the club down.

I've also been incredibly uninspired by the suggested replacements for the manager, but not surprised in the slightest. In a year's time I fully expect to still see dross like Rashford being undroppable and EtH still clinging on.
 
I will be once several of the simply not good enough players, coaches, medical staff and manager leave. Half of this should be achievable by June 1st.
 
If they tackle at least one of the consistent down tool brigade this summer, then confidence we start to be formed. Bruno a year left on contract and accept anything for Rashford - either or both would be a good start.
Sacking ETH today would be a brilliant start.
 
Not really. We're further away than ever after how Ten Hag has spent £400m.

The squad is an absolute mess and it's a long long way back.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
That would be penny wise and pound foolish of them, and would make me very pessimistic about the way the club is going to be run. Perhaps now it's too late, but just a few weeks ago the season could've still been salvaged with an interim. The incremental benefit of qualifying for the CL next season would surely outweigh the incremental cost of having to terminate ETH's contract early.
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Absolutely no guarantee an interim turns this around. Not sure that's a fair thing to levy against new ownership which has been in place since Christmas.
 
DownRiver said:
If Boely had the guts to cut a successful Tucher who had recently won a CL.

SJR needs to grow some balls and not wait until all the appointments come in. We are conceding far too many shots and this needs to stop, but we have a stubborn man who has created a stupid team that keeps losing leads in the CL and PL.
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Aye, Boley’s gutsy decision really turned things round at Chelsea, didn’t it?
 
MancunianAngels said:
It would have been a very brave decision to sack Ten Hag at that point. Certainly after the Villa comeback game.

I'll make a similar point I made on the other thread.

People correctly keep demanding long term strategic planning but most are too impatient. Short term/temporary solutions don't work and cause longer term issues.

People are demanding 90% of the team are sold because they're rubbish and want this sorted immediately..

INEOS needs to design a medium/long term plan and implement/develop a football (alongside a wider organisational) strategy based on that.

Even if that means a crap few months, fine. It's been a mostly crap 11 years. We'll benefit from longer term thinking for once.
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I don't think long-term should be conflated with not doing anything and sitting on our laurels before everything is at the optimum condition. CL football next season could have been part of our long term vision. For a club with FFP issues, due to gross negligence and incompetence the last 11 years, extra revenue that we could generate with CL football can help realize that long term vision.

If we keep waiting for this "perfect structure" to come to fruition before we can make any moves or decisions, we'll keep waiting till eternity. The club has to keep going while this magical structure is being set-up in the background.
 
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We will get better, but it will take much longer than the fans would appreciate. Especially since our structure won't be in place anytime soon
 
Tyrion said:
What kind of plan do you want? I don't think any club makes their plans public.
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Plans are evident by actions, so we'll see what happens going forwards.

I think the intentions from INEOS are genuine enough. I'm not confident much will improve because for all the talk, we still have the same owners which means the overriding priority won't change.

Also the links to Southgate are very far from encouraging. They might be bollocks but that sort of stuff is so alarming that if I was INEOS I would be clarifying that it is bollocks.
 
Leftback99 said:
Not really. We're further away than ever after how Ten Hag has spent £400m.

The squad is an absolute mess and it's a long long way back.
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We're certainly not where we need to be but I think it's a bit of short term memory loss to say we're further away than ever. ETH took over the worst united side ever in the PL era, got CL and won a trophy in his first season. The first trophy in 6 years. He could win a trophy this season as well. Which I think is the first time post Sir Alex we've won trophies 2 years in a row if we manage to upset the odds.

Things are a long way from being good and if the right manager comes up I'd certainly back a change. But if the options are Potter, southgate and De Zerbi we'd be going from the frying pan and straight into the fire.

If we approach someone like Inzaghi and he's willing to come then I'd back that type of change.
 
The only person I'm confident in is Omar Berrada.
I'm not confident in ten Hag, I'm not confident in 80% of the squad, I'm not confident in Dan Ashworth and I'm unsure about SJR.
 
No, it's a leap into the great unknown. Changes are/were needed but making them won't necessarily bring success. There's lots of other clubs doing good things and striving to be the best they can be. Things look fairly promising so far but there's no guarantee we'll get everything right.

I'm hopeful for at least some improvement but Im certainly not confident in terms of us winning the biggest trophies. It's wait and see what happens situation.
 
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Steve Bruce said:
We're certainly not where we need to be but I think it's a bit of short term memory loss to say we're further away than ever. ETH took over the worst united side ever in the PL era, got CL and won a trophy in his first season. The first trophy in 6 years. He could win a trophy this season as well. Which I think is the first time post Sir Alex we've won trophies 2 years in a row if we manage to upset the odds.

Things are a long way from being good and if the right manager comes up I'd certainly back a change. But if the options are Potter, southgate and De Zerbi we'd be going from the frying pan and straight into the fire.

If we approach someone like Inzaghi and he's willing to come then I'd back that type of change.
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We aren't going to beat City (probably not even Coventry). The league Cup was just the result of easy draws.

The top 3 are miles ahead of us and we've blown the money to catch up.

Why are you so sure other managers won't do any better than the horrendous football Ten Hag has us playing?
 
Yeah.

we knew this wouldn’t be an overnight thing and we shouldn’t expect Brailsford and Ratcliffe to be making calls regarding EtH now, let them get the people in the positions above him to make that call when here, Brailsford no doubt relaying to them already his thoughts.

This will take 2+ years to get going so buckle up.
 
Quite frankly the answer is no.

The EPL had become the most challenging league in the world. It was always a highly physically demanding league played at ridiculously high tempo but not the quality had skyrocketed in terms of talent and in terms of tactics. Each game had become a cup final, the league had become a grinder and the error margins are ridiculously low. That means that you have to have every department (fitness, coaching, physios, recruitment, 1st team, academy) working together in perfect harmony and it also means having a 25 men squad whose top of the notch talent and attitude wise. We don't have that.

INEOS is hardly renowned for football success either. Lausanne is at last place and after a decent start of the season Nice FC had fallen to 5th place again. On top of that the Glazers are still there and that's a problem

What I am very confident in is that INEOS won't tolerate mediocrity and waste. Turning things around by cutting waste, mediocracy and by improving work practice and standards is part of INEOS DNA. You only have to hear Ratcliffe speak for 5 minutes to understand that. They are always on the move and on the look out of how things can improve. Success is far from guaranteed but if mediocrity is in our future then for the first time in decades that would be done with owners who'll kick and scream their way to it. SJR had build his reputation in turning failing businesses into a success. He's too proud, too innovative and too frigging competitive to let United sink under his watch without him doing everything in his power to try and turn things around.
 
As a club we have quite a low ceiling, and that's because of the clubs fanbase. Unless we land another Fergie, I don't think we'll be successful because the clubs fanbase will never allow us to run in the way other genuinely successful top level clubs work.
 
This summer will mean everything. John Murtough. Erik ten Hag. Marcus Rashford. Bruno Fernandes. If any of these individuals is still here next season, it tells me all I need to know about INEOS’s “grand project”, no matter how many Berradas, Ashworths, and Wilcoxes they appoint. Hiring Southgate or Potter would just be piss icing on a shit cake, which wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest, of course.
 
Clearly INEOS have had more than enough time to do a full review of the club and it’s clear that their findings are probably;

1. The club has an archaic football structure that like its stadium is stuck in the 20th century, No real football structure to support and manage a coach on a week to week basis.
Priority Extreme High importance

2. An improving youth system but still far from what a club like United expect. Priority Medium to High importance

3. A Dilapidated stadium which could be rebuilt or modernised to increase Revenue and improve fan experience.
Priority High importance

4. A Training ground which has had minor modernisations but still needs upgrading.Priority Medium importance

5. An underperforming squad whose cost/expense does not match their expected performances on the field. Priority Extreme High importance

6. An obvious Coach who is failing systematically, culturally and frequently can not close out results.
Priority now Extreme high importance

7. An ever increasing injury problem due to an inept medical team or substandard facilities like recuperation rooms etc.
Priority High

Only Ineos and Sir Jim can answer these questions but question 1should have been sorted already with pretty org charts circulated to the media showing how the new structure for the club, men and woman’s team would now look like with Omar Berrada as the new CEO, Dan Ashworth as the DOF, Jason Wilcox as the new Technical Director, John Murtough fired, Darren Fletcher in a new role etc.
Why should this have been done by now?

Simply to allow the club to deflect the real issues of Player, Manager and team performance.

This would give them time to have made obvious decisions in early May that ETH must be sacked, Certain players should now be pushed forward to be sold like Rashford and this should happen asap. Points 1,5 and 6 must be dealt with immediately by your new football Director structure as you are empowering ‘So called best in class’ to make the right football and financial decisions.

However I only see mistakes being made by Ineos, mistakes that they seem to have not learnt from their Nice experiences. It’s all very well and good employing a sir David Brailsford to be the conduit between Sir Jim and the new management structure but right now he’s dealing direct with the manager and players and sending out mixed messages.

Most of these footballers don’t care, probably want out for the same money and certainly don’t want to train as frequently as they are! They are constantly breaking down due to over use and a lack of a well thought out squad depth by John Murtough and ETH which does not allow certain players to rest and give their best.

This dithering around with putting men like Ashworth in is huge, we’ve just come off a 15 month takeover saga and right now INEOS words are just that words, where’s the action, Bayern have a bad period they can’t win their domestic league, they sack the coach but allow him to finish the season. We should have come out and said after the home defeat to Fulham, that ETH will be replaced in the summer and the club is actively looking for his replacement, he then has to try and achieve something so the next potential employer is tempted by ETH, thinking United as a club have made a huge mistake!

It’s ok for INEOS to say that potentially up to 9 or 10 players may leave in the summer with a huge recruitment strategy planned at young emerging talent being strategised, it’s ok to say that the Club has decided to recruit a brand new medical team and are making significant upgrades to carrington to assist this team with state of the art equipment to help them improve our injury record. It’s ok to say that an a full review of the team inability to score the required number of goals and the increased number of goals conceded has been undertaken and changes will be made this summer. It’s ok to gaslight the fanbase about a new state of the art stadium in 4 or 5 years.

It’s not ok to be linked with Gareth Southgate, Graham Potter, Gary O’Neil, Kieran McKenna as potential new Head Coaches. It’s not ok to be haggling around a few million quid when Dan Ashworth can start and it’s certainly not ok that no set defined roles have been discussed for this new structure!

Will Omar Berrada be in complete control as he probably expects, meaning it’s his responsibility to agree and appoint a wining coach, yes Dan Ashworth if he’s the new DOF has to be on board as well and both will consult Jason Wilcox who as Technical Director must also have some input but that’s the issue, who does this new coach report to and what if Ashworth, Brailsford and Sir Jim only want Southgate?

I can see Omar Berrada resigning very quickly if he’s not the main man and Ineos must learn from Nice that you sometimes can interfere too much by trying to be too proactive, have too many chiefs and not enough Indians!
 
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