Are you confident of success in the INEOS era?

I am confident that they will fail and we shall continue to flounder.
I do hope I am wrong....but given the past decade, I simply can't see it going right.

Ralf R, said that the team itself needs open heart surgery and I am not sure if the current regime has the balls to do that.
When he was about to move "upstairs" and help rebuild the club, I had some hope.
The fact that the Glazers got rid of him because his suggestions were too far-reaching, told me everything I needed to know.

I know that Sir Jim has arrived and is attempting to make changes, but give what has gone on in the past decade, I just can't see the right changes being made.
I think we will continue to be a top 4 side.
 
I Am Zlatan said:
Yes. Simply because the people they are putting in charge are experienced and were successful before (from my basic research about the individuals, unless I’m wrong).
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Before Jose joined, he had won the league with every team.
He joined us and failed.

When LVG arrived, he had a track record of success.
He joined us and failed.

ETH arrived with a lot of hype.
He is currently failing.

I've seen players who are decorated and still in good nick. I'm looking at Cassimeiro and Varane.
They are having their worst seasons under us.

I could go on, but you get the drift.

This club has a habit of taking people who have a great track record and ruining them.
Previous success/experience doesn't seem to count for much when it comes to MUFC.
 
sunama said:
Before Jose joined, he had won the league with every team.
He joined us and failed.

When LVG arrived, he had a track record of success.
He joined us and failed.

ETH arrived with a lot of hype.
He is currently failing.

I've seen players who are decorated and still in good nick. I'm looking at Cassimeiro and Varane.
They are having their worst seasons under us.

I could go on, but you get the drift.

This club has a habit of taking people who have a great track record and ruining them.
Previous success/experience doesn't seem to count for much when it comes to MUFC.
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All of those managers were offered no support and all of those players brought in either past their peak or into a team that was put together with no coherent long term strategy.

Yes you have a point, but the main reason people have failed is because they've come into a club with no discernible structure. This isn't a case of bringing in just one manager and hoping it works, but three high level footballing executives who have had success in the league and can support each other.
 
I’m feeling positive tbh. We can’t be worse than when Woodward and the Glazers were in charge of the football.
Id like the DoF and things to be sorted by now but obviously negotiations are tricky.
Hoping for a very good summer transfer window. And we go from there.
 
Funnily I actually am. I actually don't think it takes miracles to make a club like Man Utd successful. Just people with the right intentions doing the right things.

I think the standards Ratcliffe will set from top down will almost force us towards improvement. Not to get into the substantial conversation of nepotism but there is a big difference between someone like Ratcliffe who has built things from the ground up and those who have inherited what they have.
 
INEOS football endeavor hasn’t shown any success. So being confident this early is not backed by anything but hope.

But it depends on our definition of success. Most likely we’ll be in better shape than post Fergie era, if that’s the standard.
 
Isotope said:
INEOS football endeavor hasn’t shown any success. So being confident this early is not backed by anything but hope.

But it depends on our definition of success. Most likely we’ll be in better shape than post Fergie era, if that’s the standard.
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I checked the records for the two other clubs owned by them and it's thoroughly mediocre.

In their 7 years ownership of FC Lausanne-Sport, the club has yo-yoed between the first two divisions in the Swiss league. They were relegated in their first season at the helm, stayed there for 2 seasons, came back up for two season before being relegated again and then coming back up last season. They are in 8th spot this season and likely to stay up again.

In their 5 years Nice have finished 5th, 9th, 5th, 9th & are currently 5th, 5 points behind Lille in 4th.

You are correct that there is nothing in their history of owning football clubs that shouts that they are going to be massively successful here. However, the points in their favor are:

(1) Jingoism, after a long time the club will be partly owned by a Local Lad, which is a matter of pride for some.
(2) The Glazers have been completely atrocious. The Glazer kids come across as the dollar store version of the Roy Kids. They are totally clueless and have carelessly allowed some absolute jokers to waste GBP 1b+ of the money on utter mediocrity the last XI years. So, with the Jim holding their hands, we should definitely see some improvement.
(3) I do not know about the finances at FC Lausanne-Sport or Nice, but we are one of the richest club in the world and have a massive fan base. Our commercial, broadcasting and match-day revenue are huge, with a potential to harness them further. If Jim and buddies are able to appoint some top people to the posts and streamline the operation, we can be very successful without INEOS needing to be absolute geniuses.
(4) Luck always plays a part in these things, and hopefully ours will change with Jim and the team taking over our football operations.
 
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G-manc said:
If he’s as good as they think he is, surely he’d save that on transfer negotiations.

Who are we proposing runs our transfer window?
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If you're a selling club and a club trying to buy one of your players, has just paid £20m for a director. How much do you instantly increase the asking price for any player that same club wants to buy?
 
sunama said:
I am confident that they will fail and we shall continue to flounder.
I do hope I am wrong....but given the past decade, I simply can't see it going right.

Ralf R, said that the team itself needs open heart surgery and I am not sure if the current regime has the balls to do that.
When he was about to move "upstairs" and help rebuild the club, I had some hope.
The fact that the Glazers got rid of him because his suggestions were too far-reaching, told me everything I needed to know.

I know that Sir Jim has arrived and is attempting to make changes, but give what has gone on in the past decade, I just can't see the right changes being made.
I think we will continue to be a top 4 side.
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Ralf's idea of open heart surgery was selling 10 players and signing 10 players over 2-3 windows. We've done that.
 
stevoc said:
If you're a selling club and a club trying to buy one of your players, has just paid £20m for a director. How much do you instantly increase the asking price for any player that same club wants to buy?
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But they wouldn’t if we’d agreed on half that? Im not sure it would make a difference. I feel it’s more about saving that money towards the budget, but it’s irritating he’s not in place to do the job he’s been identified for.

If you get quoted ridiculous prices, then you walk away and move on, which is the opposite of what we’ve done the last few years when we’ve overpaid at the end of windows.
 
sunama said:
Before Jose joined, he had won the league with every team.
He joined us and failed.

When LVG arrived, he had a track record of success.
He joined us and failed.

ETH arrived with a lot of hype.
He is currently failing.

I've seen players who are decorated and still in good nick. I'm looking at Cassimeiro and Varane.
They are having their worst seasons under us.

I could go on, but you get the drift.

This club has a habit of taking people who have a great track record and ruining them.
Previous success/experience doesn't seem to count for much when it comes to MUFC.
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Agreed. Which is why I wonder if INEOS can get the right infrastructure in place and get in someone with a track record of developing young players i.e. Potter. It may just work.

I recall LVG saying he preferred to work with younger players as they were keen to learn, absorb and prove themselves.

Fergie said Utd created star players, we didn't buy them.

I'm all for getting back to a Utd who play good football and are bringing young talent from home and abroad through into the 1st team.

If INEOS can achieve that, then I'll be happy. Though the primadonna's need to be cast aside. Easier said than done.
 
Some of the takes in this thread shows how much we've been burned as a fanbase for over a decade!
 
G-manc said:
If you get quoted ridiculous prices, then you walk away and move on, which is the opposite of what we’ve done the last few years when we’ve overpaid at the end of windows.
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That's absolutely the right thing to do (walking away), and I hope INEOS do that, that way if the player really wants to leave and join us, he/his agent would pressure his club into working with us to make a deal happen.

And we do get quoted high fees, but the issue sometimes is that we panic and the selling clubs know that and capitalize on it (Ajax with Anthony), the hope is that we don't panic buy anymore and selling clubs know that we can simply walk away.
 
G-manc said:
But they wouldn’t if we’d agreed on half that? Im not sure it would make a difference. I feel it’s more about saving that money towards the budget, but it’s irritating he’s not in place to do the job he’s been identified for.

If you get quoted ridiculous prices, then you walk away and move on, which is the opposite of what we’ve done the last few years when we’ve overpaid at the end of windows.
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But it happens though doesn't it? If a club is spending stupid money on players then the next selling club raises their prices. How else did we get to the situation where we had to pay £130m for Maguire and Wan Bissaka?

It might well be about saving money as well which makes sense. But I feel Ineos will want to put the message out tht United won't be paying silly money any more.
 
dinostar77 said:
If INEOS can achieve that, then I'll be happy. Though the primadonna's need to be cast aside. Easier said than done.
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I really don’t think it is. Just offer players for free to teams. Get them gone. The Phil Jones, Martial, Donny situations need to never occur again. Don’t expect fees for expensive mistakes. Let the manager do what Arteta did with Aubameyang and Ozil. Don’t make him have an expensive albatross of 7 kicking around the squad.

Play lots of academy players for two seasons, finish 6th-8th, go deep or win the less European competitions.

Recruit young talent as Brighton do.

Sell (now established) academy products for £20-40m.

Go on a spree after Pep has gone.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
I really don’t think it is. Just offer players for free to teams. Get them gone. The Phil Jones, Martial, Donny situations need to never occur again. Don’t expect fees for expensive mistakes. Let the manager do what Arteta did with Aubameyang and Ozil. Don’t make him have an expensive albatross of 7 kicking around the squad.

Play lots of academy players for two seasons, finish 6th-8th, go deep or win the less European competitions.

Recruit young talent as Brighton do.

Sell (now established) academy products for £20-40m.

Go on a spree after Pep has gone.
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By primadonnas i meant the likes of Rashford, Sancho, Bruno etc. None woild ever be released on a free.
 
dinostar77 said:
By primadonnas i meant the likes of Rashford, Sancho, Bruno etc. None woild ever be released on a free.
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Well obviously not. But they’d all fetch a fee. £40m is mooted for Sancho. We could easily sell Rashford and Bruno tomorrow if we asked for money that many would pay. They’re easier to sell than everyone else.
 
sunama said:
I am confident that they will fail and we shall continue to flounder.
I do hope I am wrong....but given the past decade, I simply can't see it going right.

Ralf R, said that the team itself needs open heart surgery and I am not sure if the current regime has the balls to do that.
When he was about to move "upstairs" and help rebuild the club, I had some hope.
The fact that the Glazers got rid of him because his suggestions were too far-reaching, told me everything I needed to know.

I know that Sir Jim has arrived and is attempting to make changes, but give what has gone on in the past decade, I just can't see the right changes being made.
I think we will continue to be a top 4 side.
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What Ragnick said was:
  • Structure isn't there. This is now fixed/in process of being fixed.
    • I know Liverpool, Manchester City and Chelsea also have smart people who take care of recruitment, scouting, the medical department… I think this is also an issue for our club, where they have to pay attention to.
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  • We need a stylistic direction for a prolonged period of time. This is TBD.
    • Manchester City and Liverpool… have been built together and recruited over a period of five or six years. All of them under the premise of how the coaches want to play. I told the board this is what has to happen (at United).
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  • There is an injury issue at the club that needs to be investigated. Big issue that is surely a priority for Ineos.
    • This is also an issue that worries me a little bit, the number of injuries that we currently have. This is also an issue that needs to be taken care of for the future. To analyse why is that the case, why does that happen?
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  • There weren't enough aggressive players. Huge issue, this is something ETH actively tried to change with all his signings (Martinez, Antony, Onana etc. always want the ball, don't shirk responsibility/wilt under pressure, are combative even when playing poorly).
    • “It’s important that you have players who have that in their DNA, who are in a way naturally born aggressive and this is something that is difficult to change.”
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  • The biggest problem players were Cavani, Pogba and Martial. The last of those 3 will leave this summer.
  • Up to 10 of the XI playing Pool who lost 4-0 weren't good enough. He liked Elanga a lot, I don't think he rated any of the others. Personally I am happy for Dalot to stay given his improvement, AWB is fine as a backup.
    • DDG, Jones, Lindelof, Maguire, AWB, Dalot, Pogba, Matic, Bruno, Elanga, Rashford.
Nothing he said was that crazy or amazing, he's just someone with eyes and who had actually worked in the type of role we were so desperately lacking. It was a bizarre appointment by us but there's no way Sir Jim isn't going to make some huge changes when you think of the scale of the team he is assembling already. A lot ofit is just common sense i.e. did anyone ever think Lindelof was good enough after watching him for a season? Why is he still here?
 
RedBanker said:
Structure doesn't deliver the goods on matchday. Tactics, training, in game subs, these things are tied to a manager only. City with the best "structure" would never hire limited managers such as Moyes or ETH. So yeah, the best of structures will require a top class manager to deliver success.
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And if INEOS are seriously targeting Southgate, and view him as an elite, best in class manager, then I have very serious doubts about their judgement, and the prediction of a League title anytime soon, seems hilarious.
 
As of right now, I'm confident that INEOS will have us competing for top four scraps, but there is no basis yet to be confident of a proper PL or CL title run anytime soon.
 
  • The biggest problem players were Cavani, Pogba and Martial. The last of those 3 will leave this summer.
  • Up to 10 of the XI playing Pool who lost 4-0 weren't good enough. He liked Elanga a lot, I don't think he rated any of the others. Personally I am happy for Dalot to stay given his improvement, AWB is fine as a backup.
    • DDG, Jones, Lindelof, Maguire, AWB, Dalot, Pogba, Matic, Bruno, Elanga, Rashford.
Nothing he said was that crazy or amazing, he's just someone with eyes and who had actually worked in the type of role we were so desperately lacking. It was a bizarre appointment by us but there's no way Sir Jim isn't going to make some huge changes when you think of the scale of the team he is assembling already. A lot ofit is just common sense i.e. did anyone ever think Lindelof was good enough after watching him for a season? Why is he still here?
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Geez, look at how many of those players still feature?! I've been banging this drum all season but the club have been appalling at getting rid of players and although EtH deserves a lot of criticism and I wouldn't complain or be surprised if he got the sack, I still argue that the required rebuild hasn't been anywhere near what it should be. Getting rid of just Fred and DDG was just not enough. I'm happy for Dalot to stay to be fair as he's had two decent seasons in a row now and he's matured a lot but the rest...
 
Early signs suggest they know what there doing. We’ll be successful we just need patience. People thinking we’ll challenge in the first season are far of it.
 
It seems like they are building a good football structure with Brailsford, Berrada, Ashworth and Wilcox. They also have plan for new stadium.

However, the most important appointment for a football club is the manager. The manager need to play modern attacking football. City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, Villa, Brighton and Newcastle all playing modern football. We need to catch up soon if we want want to knock Man City off their perch.
 
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The funny thing is, post WW2 anyway, we've never been a well run club. Our success has come from the magic of two managers. There has never really been a structure.

If INEOS (a big if, never trust anyone who owns the club) can build something that can bring in success across different managers, they will have left a massive imprint across the club.
 
The more they dither on ETH, the more we get linked to managers like Southgate and Potter, the less confident I get.
 
They need to pull the trigger now. It's the absolutely right decision and a responsible one.
 
The Mitcher said:
The more they dither on ETH, the more we get linked to managers like Southgate and Potter, the less confident I get.
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There’s a difference between media click bait and actual links. Surely we’ve learned by now no one has a clue and the more controversial the story i.e. Southgate the more clicks it gets. Let’s at least see what they do once the hires are in before wetting the bed.
 
Will be interested to see what they do with certain players still on longer term contracts who’ve shown they’re not good enough under multiple managers too. They can’t be getting yet another chance.
 
DJ_21 said:
Early signs suggest they know what there doing. We’ll be successful we just need patience. People thinking we’ll challenge in the first season are far of it.
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100% agree and what worries me is the glory hunters will be out pretty quickly next year demanding Jim sell his shares once things go bad.
 
The longer it goes on with no whispers either way on ETH, and the possibility of him staying still looms, it does worry me. I hope they are putting in a lot of work on this front behind the scenes. If they chose to keep him then I'd be fuming, as it tells me they're actually so arrogant that they think they can polish a turd and ignore what we've all witnessed for 18 months now. Either that or we're actually skint and can't even afford to sack the guy. I don't know which is worse in the bigger picture.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
There’s a difference between media click bait and actual links. Surely we’ve learned by now no one has a clue and the more controversial the story i.e. Southgate the more clicks it gets. Let’s at least see what they do once the hires are in before wetting the bed.
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Potter get's mentioned due to Ashsorth, abd apparently Brailsford wants him...
 
Swedish_Plumber said:
Will be interested to see what they do with certain players still on longer term contracts who’ve shown they’re not good enough under multiple managers too. They can’t be getting yet another chance.
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The thing is, they're going to have the same problems their predecessors did. Nobody will want to pay a fee, or a decent fee, for most players. They'll have to sell cheap or keep. They should be praying that PSG are still interested in Rashford, and they can collect a fee there that will offset the other losses. Hopefully the Saudis can cough up more money for some players too, but it sounds like they've put the brakes on a bit.
 
It’s early but it’s their first black mark that they have let this roll on. They needed to be decisive about something like this and they haven’t. We have missed out on Europe because of it. Anyone competent would have caught Spurs/Villa.
 
pocco said:
The thing is, they're going to have the same problems their predecessors did. Nobody will want to pay a fee, or a decent fee, for most players. They'll have to sell cheap or keep. They should be praying that PSG are still interested in Rashford, and they can collect a fee there that will offset the other losses. Hopefully the Saudis can cough up more money for some players too, but it sounds like they've put the brakes on a bit.
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I’m hoping that the new owners recognise this problem and are more willing to compromise on the fee. They’ll see it as a way to circumvent the high wages the players are likely to demand.

But yeah I get the pessimism with all that’s happened with the Glazers.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
There’s a difference between media click bait and actual links. Surely we’ve learned by now no one has a clue and the more controversial the story i.e. Southgate the more clicks it gets. Let’s at least see what they do once the hires are in before wetting the bed.
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Exactly ⬆

It’s just those morons at the Mail and ESPN or Twitter kids with a few k followers. And we run around like headless chickens.

When Whitwell and more so, Ornstein are saying it… THEN I’ll panic.

Until then they’ve got someone with huge experience of top athletes, someone with great experience of a senior role at a big club/group of clubs, etc etc and hopefully Ashworth. Everything suggests they’ll make the best managerial appointment, even if it’s a stepping stone to the next level.
 
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