Ole was replaced by Rangnick, an interim manager... it took us till March to appoint Ten Hag.
LVG they sacked him because they wanted to appoint Jose after the season.
Are you confident of success in the INEOS era?
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Ole was replaced by Rangnick, an interim manager... it took us till March to appoint Ten Hag.
LVG they sacked him because they wanted to appoint Jose after the season.
But the talk about Ten Hag was happening for ages? It was an open secret.
But the talk about Jose was happening for ages? It was a laughably and disrespectfully open secret.
I'm not slagging INEOS off, I just disagree with you.
I'm not sure Ole knew tbf. Wasn't the general assumption that Carrick was going to be interim?
Not really, Ten Hag was the fans choice, we only started negotiating in like February with him, there was no agreement at all.
Jose was different because that was the club choosing the manager regardless of what happens at the end of the season.
I am more talking a manager sacked mid season and a permanent appointed within 2 weeks which this seems like it will.
True. Which is a big positive and a massive step forward, much better than months of interim nonsense.
Yep because lets be honest, if we give it to an interim, the same issues will come up again which Rangnick faced. Players not respecting him and its like what is the point of an interim?
Get a permanent manager now, he will get leeway till end of the season on the basis "its not his team". This gives him the chance to instill his methods and principles before the summer and hopefully get us to a respectable position in the league.
Then, there is less pressure in pre season for him to review the squad, he can almost go and challenge at the top rather than spending next season stabilising us.
Can we please leave this sentiment behind us as a relict of the Glazer leadership? The moment Amorim takes charge it is his team. I agree on giving him leeway on the base of him needing time to implement new tactics etc, but this "(not) his team" discussion implies the old logic "new manager = full rebuild". This was the (wrong) way it was done before and that United has to move away from.
Exactly. This old mentality of rebuild rebuild rebuild completely starting from scratch with every new manager is bonkers and outdated.
I agree with you but if you dont think fans will be using that tag line if things dont go well, then you dont know the fans.
We dont need a full re-build, we just need the manager to get more from these players and in the summer, he will get 2/3 new players.
He has to get this squad competing.
If "lesser" clubs can have new managers come in and get more from the same group, why can't a club with in theory a higher level of players do the same. A manager shouldn't need an entire squad in purely their own vision from the get go anyway, yes over time that'll happen if they're successful.
I agree, and I know they will... And it will enrage me again when it happens
Its easy to say all this with hindsight.
Although I agree that we need to be ruthless, but talking about United specifically, the problem is bigger than just swiping the manager. We have already done that for the last few years and have gone nowhere with it. The two trophies we got are down to the manager we just fired for being incompetent. There is no fixed formulae here is what i am saying. But I dont want the managers seat to be a revolving door, cause that gives rise to player power.
Absolutely. But can you with confidence say that simply changing manager will solve the current crisis at United? If you are saying that we need to do this, then we need the same with players.
That's not guaranteed. A strong leadership can hold both players and manager accountable. Player power as you mean it arises in a power vacuum.
In other words, Ashworth has to make clear that he is calling the shots and if a player thinks he has the power to do so, he has to be put into his place (which could be the transfer market).
All under performers need to be binned as soon as possible. If that means shitting on them in the media (like Barca and Real consistently do) so be it. Players should be kept on their toes by the structure above the manager, so if they down the tools to get a manager fired, they should be removed soon too (a bit like Sancho who should not be returned here).
Same for manager, no more ‘give him time and his own players before judge him’. The likes of Lopetegui or Solari or Benitez got sacked in a few months, and Real were better.
So ideally, sign very good players that are independent of the manager, and be ruthless both with managers and players.
Binning off Ten Hag Monday. Here we go on the highest rated up and coming manager in Europe on Tuesday. When they do finally move, they move quickly.
If anything, I believe this is part of the reason why Sir Alex was so successful - he was ruthless in getting rid once he feels a player no longer has the same hunger/passion/commitment or respect his authority. Sure we lost a few good players that way, Jaap Stay for example, but otherwise Sir Alex got it right most of the time.
Our regime so far is defined by giving contract extensions to under performers so we "retain" some "market value" while all it shows is that you can underperform and continue to get a fat pay check every week.
Lesser players who believe and are passionate are often better than the best that don't.
Same goes for squad players etc you can't have the best 25 players it doesn't work, you need the best X and the best X willing to be squad players etc.
Look at the "new manager bounce" etc. I think the management and morale is probably a more important attribute as a manager then tactics (or at least often overlooked).
Have always been confident in Ineos sorting us. Never expected it to happen overnight (or even a year or two) and expected the odd bump but overall, more than happy with progress and very confident in future.
I've been critical, but they sacked Ten Hag on Monday, and bagged one of the hottest prospects by Friday - same week. I appreciate the efficiency
The number of positives have gone up. Along with the outgoing summer business, the eventual sacking of Ten Hag and then appointing a permanent manager in double quick time instead of letting the season meander with Ruud or another interim is a big big plus for me. I am pleasantly surprised that this has happened.
Let's be honest, confidence is at a low point right now.
I don't trust or rate any of our board members or so called "specialists" until they deliver.
Sacking ETH now is not a sign of competence or ambition, it's just the inevitable. Bringing Amorim might be a good move, or not. Who knows?
If we fail to qualify for CL next year also, it will be the first time when we miss CL for 2 years in a row. Hope it is not the case.
I don't trust or rate any of our board members or so called "specialists" until they deliver.
Sacking ETH now is not a sign of competence or ambition, it's just the inevitable. Bringing Amorim might be a good move, or not. Who knows?
If we fail to qualify for CL next year also, it will be the first time when we miss CL for 2 years in a row. Hope it is not the case.
I'm still very optimistic, they've not messed about at all this week. No wasting months of a season on the interim nonsense of the past either, which I really like.
Ten Hag should've been sacked long before he even got to the cup final but Ashworth, Berrada etc. weren't here then. Once he'd won the cup I can understand why they decided to let him start this season personally, even if in hindsight it didn't work out.
They've now got their own head coach with his own contract and according to reports no recruitment veto, so now we can start judging properly.
Ten Hag should've been sacked long before he even got to the cup final but Ashworth, Berrada etc. weren't here then. Once he'd won the cup I can understand why they decided to let him start this season personally, even if in hindsight it didn't work out.
They've now got their own head coach with his own contract and according to reports no recruitment veto, so now we can start judging properly.
Im still not fully sold on INEOS but from a structural point of view the Football side of the business is now in the best position its been in since the Glazers took over as we have the CEO, the technical director, the sporting director, and now the head coach in place so if they all work together and pull in the same direction we should start to see some real progress.
No idea why, but part of me still feels we could win the Europa this season, which would open things up for next year.... cue side losing to a part-time team from Armenia!
Yes, that's right.
But I can't help but point out (again) that with United everything to do with managerial transitions has been abnormal for more than a decade.
We can now - perhaps, hopefully - take it as a premise that the overall direction of the club (on the so-called football side) is being taken care of by people above Amorim: he's the head coach, not another attempt at replacing SAF.
I really, really hope this is the case - but it's (much) too early to say.
Amorim's qualities is one thing - the qualities of the people who should (now) be in place above him is another thing. And the latter is what ultimately matters.
Amorim isn't a genius who can transform United - the best we can hope for is that he's a (very) good coach.
I've pushed back on a few posters questioning Ineos up to this points, feels way too early to be calling judgement but i have been wondering about their methods up to this point myself.
That said, the way this week has gone and the pace with which they have worked at does generate a lot of confidence. Feels very slick and clearly a lot going on behind closed doors which no one was aware of, which is exactly how it should be, the constant media leaks need to disappear.
That said, the way this week has gone and the pace with which they have worked at does generate a lot of confidence. Feels very slick and clearly a lot going on behind closed doors which no one was aware of, which is exactly how it should be, the constant media leaks need to disappear.
I feel a lot more confident in INEOS than I have since before SAF retired, will it translate into success? I just feel like before we were a shambles everywhere and only succeeded down to the brilliance SAF, now it feels like it is well structured and organised
Indeed. I’m very happy how quickly they’ve managed to do this.
more confident than I was without them
there's obviously going to be mistakes along the way, even if they do take us to the title eventually
but for me not sacking ETH last summer was an obvious error, with albeit mitigating circumstances
gotta give them credit for having the new guy sorted really quick though
I'm excited to see how the new guy sorts this out
there's obviously going to be mistakes along the way, even if they do take us to the title eventually
but for me not sacking ETH last summer was an obvious error, with albeit mitigating circumstances
gotta give them credit for having the new guy sorted really quick though
I'm excited to see how the new guy sorts this out
No. I think it'll be similar to before. Some good seasons where we look to be getting back towards title contention with a 3rd or 4th finish and then following it up in midtable the next season and changing managers
If i were a gambling man id stick a hundred euros on precisely this. Id love nothing more than to be wrong, but just going by the last decade.
Getting Amorim done quickly has been impressive. Maybe we can challenge for the league in a few years.
Im not sure we should be using the last decade where we had no structure and our managers were having to settle for their 4th and 5th choice targets in the trsnsfer window to predict what will happen in the current era where we have a proper structure in place and a head coach who will be given the players he needs to get us playing the way he wants.
Yes I am. They've shown they have the patience with how thy treated EtH.
They've also earned my allegiance with this:
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5883160/2024/10/30/ten-hag-amorim-welbeck-berrada/
United also looked at Massimiliano Allegri, but the 57-year-old former Juventus manager was viewed as someone far less likely to build for the long term in the way Amorim could.
I've always liked Max.
They've also earned my allegiance with this:
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5883160/2024/10/30/ten-hag-amorim-welbeck-berrada/
United also looked at Massimiliano Allegri, but the 57-year-old former Juventus manager was viewed as someone far less likely to build for the long term in the way Amorim could.
I've always liked Max.
Really tough to say. And depends what currently constitutes 'success' for us.
So many strong and wealthy teams in the PL these days that I think it's going to be a good while before we can realistically hope to win the league / CL again.
However with the appointments over the last six months - Amorim, and all the previous ones like Berrada and Ashworth - then I'm a lot more confident of seeing us being run a lot better as a club and performing better in terms of transfers and performances.
That should all translate to us getting ourselves back into the mix on a more consistent basis over time, and make a more positive attitude about the club (and how we're reported / currently mocked).
So more confident about reaching a certain level of success - which we really should have never dipped below, but did so by some margins! I'm more confident we can at least get back to there and be more often qualifying for, and competing better in, the CL. But getting back to actually being realistic challengers for the PL / CL? That still seems such a long way away. But we need to be patient and get there step by step, and I'm at least more confident that we'll be heading in the right direction and take those initial steps forward.
So many strong and wealthy teams in the PL these days that I think it's going to be a good while before we can realistically hope to win the league / CL again.
However with the appointments over the last six months - Amorim, and all the previous ones like Berrada and Ashworth - then I'm a lot more confident of seeing us being run a lot better as a club and performing better in terms of transfers and performances.
That should all translate to us getting ourselves back into the mix on a more consistent basis over time, and make a more positive attitude about the club (and how we're reported / currently mocked).
So more confident about reaching a certain level of success - which we really should have never dipped below, but did so by some margins! I'm more confident we can at least get back to there and be more often qualifying for, and competing better in, the CL. But getting back to actually being realistic challengers for the PL / CL? That still seems such a long way away. But we need to be patient and get there step by step, and I'm at least more confident that we'll be heading in the right direction and take those initial steps forward.
I will be more confident if decisions are left to Berrada/Ashworth/Wilcox than if Brailsford or Sir Jim stick their oar in.
More hopeful than confident