Are you confident of success in the INEOS era?

You're only ever a few good decisions away from challenging.

We have been ran about as badly as is physically possible and we have finished 2nd twice post-SAF.

That being said, we need to approach this with humility and a level of ruthlessness.
 
Theonas said:
I am not sure someone who is trying to get the government help us build a new stadium, has the funds to get us to compete at the very top.
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Surely this is the sign of a savvy businessman? From what I can gather, the blokes a self-made billionaire. There are not too many of those!

If SJR can save even 10/20% on building a new stadium, we could be talking about a difference of £200/300m. Why wouldn't you play that game if you could?
 
Woziak said:
But surely the CEO is the man empowered to run the club from top to bottom. Dan Ashworth will work for Berrada ?
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The CEO is higher than the DoF, but that doesn't necessarily mean the CEO will be the one making the managerial decision (in the same way that Berrada works for Ratcliffe but Ratcliffe hopefully won't make the decision).

It completely depends on the set-up, and we don't know for sure yet how it's going to look. The CEO could just focus on the finances and allow the DoF to pretty much run the football side of things himself (as long as he stays in budget). Or it might be more a partnership between them, or even the CEO being the main guy with the DoF being more of an assistant rather than having real power himself.

From what we know of them, I'd say a partnership is most likely. Ashworth will be the main guy making the football decisions, but he'll have to run the bigger stuff (like managerial changes) past Berrada and provide the reasons why that decision should be made. I expect Brailsford will also be involved when it gets to that stage.
 
MadDogg said:
The CEO is higher than the DoF, but that doesn't necessarily mean the CEO will be the one making the managerial decision (in the same way that Berrada works for Ratcliffe but Ratcliffe hopefully won't make the decision).

It completely depends on the set-up, and we don't know for sure yet how it's going to look. The CEO could just focus on the finances and allow the DoF to pretty much run the football side of things himself (as long as he stays in budget). Or it might be more a partnership between them, or even the CEO being the main guy with the DoF being more of an assistant rather than having real power himself.

From what we know of them, I'd say a partnership is most likely. Ashworth will be the main guy making the football decisions, but he'll have to run the bigger stuff (like managerial changes) past Berrada and provide the reasons why that decision should be made. I expect Brailsford will also be involved when it gets to that stage.
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Usually the difference is that, the higher up you are on the chain the longer your outlook is for the club.

CEO - involved in long term initiatives, new stadium, revenue streams, multi-year sponsor ship. 5+ year outlook for the club is his focus.

DOF - 3-5 year outlook. He's given a budget to work year to year with an idea of what the budget will be the next year, so he can plan for a mid term cycle for the squad.

Head coach - short term outlook and the shortest leash. There to get the most out of the resources at the club. His targets are set on a yearly basis.
 
Sadly im not confident of anything. We have wasted so much money that FFP means building a team via the £££,s is no longer viable.
 
Lentwood said:
Surely this is the sign of a savvy businessman? From what I can gather, the blokes a self-made billionaire. There are not too many of those!

If SJR can save even 10/20% on building a new stadium, we could be talking about a difference of £200/300m. Why wouldn't you play that game if you could?
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That is definitely what a savvy businessman would do. The best owners in English football past 2 decades though did not run their clubs as savvy business men. They spent what it takes and spared no expenses and projected an image of we're here to win and not to make smart business deals. I am not saying he should be like that but in my estimation, unless you are like that, there is not much difference you gonna make to the good or bad. An owner who makes a proper difference needs to match the Sheikh's ambition and deep pockets. Otherwise, you are in the realm of Liverpool or Arsenal's owners or our own Glazers or the guys before them. In that realm, it lives or dies on the appointments, when the Glazers had Sir Alex and David Gill, they were successful, just like when Liverpool have Klopp. Ratcliffe is not going to be the difference maker for us, he will try to appoint the right people and and cut corners to make it a successful business operation and in the meantime, he is buying a legacy for himself and a great PR exercise at a discount price. We can hope that at some point, those appointments work and we take some benefit from it too. The chances are at some point they will work like they did Liverpool and Arsenal.
 
MadDogg said:
The CEO is higher than the DoF, but that doesn't necessarily mean the CEO will be the one making the managerial decision (in the same way that Berrada works for Ratcliffe but Ratcliffe hopefully won't make the decision).

It completely depends on the set-up, and we don't know for sure yet how it's going to look. The CEO could just focus on the finances and allow the DoF to pretty much run the football side of things himself (as long as he stays in budget). Or it might be more a partnership between them, or even the CEO being the main guy with the DoF being more of an assistant rather than having real power himself.

From what we know of them, I'd say a partnership is most likely. Ashworth will be the main guy making the football decisions, but he'll have to run the bigger stuff (like managerial changes) past Berrada and provide the reasons why that decision should be made. I expect Brailsford will also be involved when it gets to that stage.
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Let’s hope Ratcliffe doesn’t make that decision, all the delusion that INEOS finally got it right with Nice after learning the hard way I’m not seeing it, Nice have picked up 2 points in 15 and now sit at 5th with the possibility that they will be lucky to end up 7th if they don’t stop the slide. I’m not seeing anything from INEOS in football that fills me with any confidence.

I see Graham Potter as our next manager and the club being irrelevant for another decade due to irreversible damage Potter would do as Man United manager, fans think ETH is bad, Potter will be worse on a whole different level.

I was initially encouraged by the Omar Berrada appointment but only if he has sole control, Ashworth CV is not in the same conversation and he should be left to get his head of Recruitment in place and his technical Director, who I’m sure will be Wilcox because Berrada will want all the information first hand, not second hand.

The summer will tel Fa s must how serious and just how responsible we will be with recruitment, the club needs 12 or 13 players to leave, be sold, released and needs to recruit 8 or 9 new first team and squad players.

United should only look at the following coaches to replace ETH ; T Tuchel, H Flick, J Naigelsman, S Inzaghi, Z Zidane, A Conte or L Enrique.

If our new coach has not won more than Arteta or U Emery he should not be interviewed?

I only want a coach that knows how to win, and his CV backs that up. If he doesn’t have a title in the big 5 leagues not the second rate Dutch league which is only marginally better than Scotland then he is not an option.
 
el3mel said:
There's no reason to be confident of anything regarding Man United at the moment. It can go either way. If anything, it's easier to expect to keep going down rather than up.
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100% were trapped in a vicious cycle were we advance one step and then go two steps back. I don't think we've managed back to back champions league seasons since SAF's time. As you say at this point we're closer from being further down than up.

I would like to be optimistic but we've seen way too many false dawn's to be that naive.
 
Theonas said:
That is definitely what a savvy businessman would do. The best owners in English football past 2 decades though did not run their clubs as savvy business men. They spent what it takes and spared no expenses and projected an image of we're here to win and not to make smart business deals. I am not saying he should be like that but in my estimation, unless you are like that, there is not much difference you gonna make to the good or bad. An owner who makes a proper difference needs to match the Sheikh's ambition and deep pockets. Otherwise, you are in the realm of Liverpool or Arsenal's owners or our own Glazers or the guys before them. In that realm, it lives or dies on the appointments, when the Glazers had Sir Alex and David Gill, they were successful, just like when Liverpool have Klopp. Ratcliffe is not going to be the difference maker for us, he will try to appoint the right people and and cut corners to make it a successful business operation and in the meantime, he is buying a legacy for himself and a great PR exercise at a discount price. We can hope that at some point, those appointments work and we take some benefit from it too. The chances are at some point they will work like they did Liverpool and Arsenal.
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There's no chance he spends £2BN of his own money on a stadium I believe that's a completely unrealistic expectation. Even Abu Dhabi and their SiF and Roman and his ill-gotten billions didn't build stadiums.

If the benchmark for good owners is piling in billions and never hoping to make a return then I think you're destined to be disappointed. SJR will put a proper management structure in place and run the club like the business that it is, which is fine in my book.

We haven't failed under the Glazers for lack of investment, we've failed because of their negligence
 
Hopefully the whole club will be run more professionally and players who just wander around and pick up a hefty pay packet won't be tolerated. Quite optimistic for the future as surely it has to get better .
 
Can't get worse than it already is, right? Right??
 
I am writing off next season as well. It will take a few months to put the right people in place and a new manager. Thgh the way INEOS is going about business does give me confidence for success in the long term
 
No. Especially while they are just the public face of continued Glazer ownership.

I'm not convinced by them generally but I'm more open to it if they ever actually own the club
 
We can become a decent cup team with the right players and manager.

Anything more than that is simply not realistic.
 
Depends on the decisions of this summer, even that is probably too early to judge. I'm not an idiot to write them off already.

What I will say is if they back Ten Hag from here, it's really opening them up for a lot of doubters.
 
If Boely had the guts to cut a successful Tucher who had recently won a CL.

SJR needs to grow some balls and not wait until all the appointments come in. We are conceding far too many shots and this needs to stop, but we have a stubborn man who has created a stupid team that keeps losing leads in the CL and PL.
 
No, end of the day the Glazer's are still the ultimate decision makers which means we won't see the true INEOS without being hamstrung. Money will always rule all decisions, its the reason the likes of Rashford will probably still be hear and not be dropped longterm to protect his value.
 
It's a difficult one but the Southgate appointment rumors is throwing things off.

I think it's of categorical importance that the hierarchy go for a manager who aligns with their own vision and objectives from a philosophical standpoint which in turn, pioneers the direction of the team. This element alone is a fundamental value in business to ensure everyone has cohesion and it really solidifies intent and orchestration in the long run.

However, the differentiator in football and corporate business is that managerial credentials is the ultimate outlier. So while it's totally comprehensive for Southgate to have great chemistry with Ashworth and Ashworth working fantastically in unison with Omar Berrada and Wilcox, everything and literally everything unravels when the manager doesn't have the capacity to successfully capture ambitious outcomes. It's like having all the right pieces for a great V12 engine but one of the engineers puts incompatible fuel, so when you lift the hood everything looks great but there's no progression where it matters.

That's how I see the Southgate thing, but hopefully someone like Berrada who has worked in conjunction with renown managers has more of an output with his own ideals from his experiences.
 
We're not making the CL and we might even not make the Europa. If they are truly hungry for success they will trim the squad significantly this summer and go after 2-3 major young talents this summer alongside a couple of reliable squad players.

The proof will be in how many we ship out this summer and if (really when at this point I guess) the make a managerial change that it is genuinely hopeful.
 
Right now we are a complete laughing stock , rarely have I seen a major club reduced to such ridicule as Man Utd have in the last few seasons. And we deserve it all.

First step is stop us been a laughing stock ,then think about been successful again , but from this very low base it is going to be a herculean task ,basically requires a complete rebuild both on and off the pitch.
 
Big test is seeing what they do with the likes of Rashford. And to a lesser extent Bruno, McTom, Maguire. But if they get rid of Rashford this summer, that would be a huge statement. As would hiring Southgate, but at the polar opposite end of the spectrum.
I have a bad feeling we’ll be getting Southgate in to get the best out of Maguire, Rashford etc.
Hopefully it’s just my negative mindset due to this club letting me down over and over with stupid, obviously incorrect, decisions these last number of years
 
Amira said:
I’m optimistic. Not confident but optimistic
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Yeh having seen that they’ve done very little at Nice and just loads of PR claptrap so far, we need to see a proper plan and more importantly go buy class players!

However I am impressed that Sir Jim is at least trying to come to as many games as he can! Don’t think we’ve won too many he’s attended however so there is that !
 
Well I'm confident that success is actually the goal (whether it's achieved or not) under INEOS and Ratcliffe. Which is more than I can say about the Glazer era.
 
I think they are in for a rough ride this summer. United are used to paying a United Tax for any player they target, but INEOS will have to overcome the United + INEOS/new owner tax as well.

It’s one thing saying in interviews recruitment has been poor over the last number of years, but let’s see how they act in the transfer market before getting too excited.
 
We'll have a clearer view in the summer and the season after that. The fact that there's noise about a shake up in the structure can only be positive at this point.

I can't get excited about the prospect of Southgate or someone like that managing us if it's true. I'm so tired of going into big games as the underdog (Jose and Ole) or whatever god-forsaken football chaos EtH has us playing. I'd just like a manager who can build a team that can dominate games, play attacking football and impose our style on the opposition, and not just counter-attack/quick transitions.
 
Hard to summon much optimism. When Sir Alex retired, I anticipated a drop off and a few lean years. I didn't expect that, eleven years later the deterioration would be so profound that I can scarcely summon the enthusiasm to watch.

At the moment;

1. The Glazers are still here.

2. We have spent a fortune to end up with a rag tag group of players, many of whom are not of the required standard, and/or as fragile as Christmas ornaments.

3. We have a manager who, after almost two full seasons, has developed no discernable style of play and appears unable to coach or motivate the players he has to be improve. Yet the speculation is that he may be replaced with Southgate. More mediocrity. Unbelievable.

The club is an Augean Stable of mediocrity. This season has been an abomination. A death by a thousand cuts. There needs to be ruthless root abd branch change. But I doubt it will happen.
 
RuudTom83 said:
I think they are in for a rough ride this summer. United are used to paying a United Tax for any player they target, but INEOS will have to overcome the United + INEOS/new owner tax as well.

It’s one thing saying in interviews recruitment has been poor over the last number of years, but let’s see how they act in the transfer market before getting too excited.
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They don't need to spend big in the transfer market to prove anything. Actually it'd be good if they weren't able to spend big. We've thrown money away in recent years while all our good recruitment has involved relatively low fees like Bruno or Martinez. Our recruitment needs to be smarter not better funded.
 
Who's Kissing Cameras? said:
If they don’t get rid of the head coach. I’m already doubting their ability.
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The people who have been hired to make the calls aren't starting this summer unfortunately.

There isn't much to judge Ratcliffe on. He's come in, and hired good people in positions that we've lacked. Its the jobs of those people now basically.
 
Al-T said:
Hard to summon much optimism. When Sir Alex retired, I anticipated a drop off and a few lean years. I didn't expect that, eleven years later the deterioration would be so profound that I can scarcely summon the enthusiasm to watch.

At the moment;

1. The Glazers are still here.

2. We have spent a fortune to end up with a rag tag group of players, many of whom are not of the required standard, and/or as fragile as Christmas ornaments.

3. We have a manager who, after almost two full seasons, has developed no discernable style of play and appears unable to coach or motivate the players he has to be improve. Yet the speculation is that he may be replaced with Southgate. More mediocrity. Unbelievable.

The club is an Augean Stable of mediocrity. This season has been an abomination. A death by a thousand cuts. There needs to be ruthless root abd branch change. But I doubt it will happen.
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1) I think Sir Jim is on a path to total ownership in future. I may be wrong and I'm happy for someone to correct me.

2) Thanks to Ed Woodward handing out contracts like candy but he's no longer a problem though his mismanagement has set us back years.

3) Leave the decisions as to who to manage the team to the new hires coming in (hopefully Ashworth). INEOS will recruit the right people to help bring the club back in line.

This season is a write off as is likely next season. It will take 2 - 3 years to establish a new team/structure that should be bare fruits in about 4 - 5 years time.
 
He will be fired as soon as we can’t get top 4 mathematically. I reckon United have a clause in the contract that makes it cheaper to sack him if he doesn’t make top 4.
 
Tyrion said:
They don't need to spend big in the transfer market to prove anything. Actually it'd be good if they weren't able to spend big. We've thrown money away in recent years while all our good recruitment has involved relatively low fees like Bruno or Martinez. Our recruitment needs to be smarter not better funded.
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100%

That’s what I would like but let’s wait and see what happens in the summer. As I said it’s easier said than done.
 
With the leaks about possible new Managers that won't improve things and talking more about a new stadium than improving the team the short answer is no.
 
No.

Until there is a plan I can't place any confidence in whatever that plan is. PR interview spin amd 'Wembley of the north" eubbish does not constitute a plan.
 
Honestly, starting to worry that we could flounder even more.

And the Glazers are still there.
 
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