Seeing Liverpool continue at such a high level despite Klopps stepping down, is a kick the face, after the multiple previous when INEOS decided to go into another season under this guy. Liverpool were never even this bad at their worst. Neither were Arsenal. They're laughing at us harder than we've ever given to them, and rightly so.
Are you confident of success in the INEOS era?
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Seeing Liverpool continue at such a high level despite Klopps stepping down, is a kick the face, after the multiple previous when INEOS decided to go into another season under this guy. Liverpool were never even this bad at their worst. Neither were Arsenal. They're laughing at us harder than we've ever given to them, and rightly so.
100%.
I still can't quite believe they didn't pull the trigger during the international break.
Not sure anyone can have faith in them yet. It's definitely more hope.
Pretty certain no CL next season already. Add the loss of income from the Adidas contract (2 years out of it).
It's an even longer way back without the financial advantages we had in the past.
It's an even longer way back without the financial advantages we had in the past.
Less and less with each Gameweek. I am a great fan of the long term changes they've made. But what does that matter when you're this poor?
Best in class
The more they keeping him the more they will look as incompetent and stupid to be honest.
I never said this. I thought it was a ridiculous and dumb set up from the get go and I don't think any of what's happening is much of a surprise.
I also don't see where it gets better. The opportunity was there for real change when the Glazers were looking to sell, and for whatever odd reason people threw their hat in with some crazy scheme that meant we kept the glazers and just added another layer of fat. There is no logical reason at all to think this would make things better as opposed to worse..
And now yeah, people are too embarrassed to admit they were wrong, but that won't last much longer because a lot of the dumb decisions are there for all to see, and Sir Jim has been very vocal about stupid shit that will bring criticism his way when the team cant win a game. E.g. waffling on about his Wembley of the north vanity project when he apparently can't afford to employ a kitman
I hate how it’s probably likely that we’ll still have ten Hag in charge for the Leicester game on Wednesday. I really want to have faith in them, but how can I have faith in them if they back a manager who literally has us in relegation form?
Still early doors yet but their handling of the manager situation has been fecking terrible, even the Glazers would’ve got shot of ETH long before now. They need to get their act together and fast.
Honestly, we were better off with Woodward than these bozos.
They're starting to look clueless and out of their depth.
It's difficult to imagine how we ever get back to winning titles.
It's difficult to imagine how we ever get back to winning titles.
Winning Euopa League is still easily doable for a decent manager. Especially now that CL sides don't get parachuted in midway through.
The best team in the competition is Spurs ffs. Not winning it should be considered an enormous failure.
Lost all my confidence when they didn't sack ETH after the last international break.
If they sacked ETH weeks ago or even in May people would have said they panicked and jumped early.
If they kept him, which they did....people say they are clueless and have no idea what theyre doing. They cant win.
I was always Qatar in, but we have to be realistic here - There isnt a quick fix, this is bigger than just whoever the manager is at the time. Im sure INEOS will get it right eventually but its going to take time.
If they kept him, which they did....people say they are clueless and have no idea what theyre doing. They cant win.
I was always Qatar in, but we have to be realistic here - There isnt a quick fix, this is bigger than just whoever the manager is at the time. Im sure INEOS will get it right eventually but its going to take time.
Same. That was the perfect time. It'll soon be too late to salvage the season
The issue of "it'll take time" was mentioned about 10 years ago.
Sorry buddy, but it does not take time.
I've seen clubs change managers and playing staff and within a few years go from top 6 to winning the league.
This idea that we are "special" and that we need 20 years to resolve our problems, is something I don't subscribe to.
I said this several weeks ago: INEOS are reactive, not proactive. They don't have a plan and will simply react (just as Glazers did). Eventually, ETH will be fired as we maintain our mid-table position and they'll put a caretaker manager, thus wasting another season.
ETH should've been sacked in the Summer, immediately after the FA Cup, but INEOS saw he won the FA Cup, hence didn't need to react.
They are incompetent.
From top to bottom we need changes and that probably includes INEOS, themselves.
Imagine if there was a Sheikh Jassim, and he had bought us instead of Jim..
It's noy yet clear if Sheikh Jassim was a real person
This is a textbook example of how you reduce a giant football club to a club that is mid-table fodder on a permanent basis.
You erode the standards to the point that mid-table and the occasional cup run look like a decent deal. You make the club look like a joke in the eyes of young fans so that they don't follow your club so that they're not the constant butt of every joke, and in a few years you're looking at far less support to go along with your mid-table club.
This feels like how I'd expect die hard Liverpool fans to run United.
You erode the standards to the point that mid-table and the occasional cup run look like a decent deal. You make the club look like a joke in the eyes of young fans so that they don't follow your club so that they're not the constant butt of every joke, and in a few years you're looking at far less support to go along with your mid-table club.
This feels like how I'd expect die hard Liverpool fans to run United.
INEOS are the Neville Chamberlain of football club owners.
Berrerda, Ashworth, Brailsford, Jimmy Rat. Surely someone has the balls to make a bloody decision
And recruit whom? It's really not a good sign when someone comes in knowing little and fires people.
That's why I said, imagine if there was a Sheikh Jassim and he had bought us. Glazers would have been gone too. Instead, cost cutting Jim managed to squeeze himself into our club keeping the Glazers here.
I don't think anybody has ever said it would take 10-20 years to resolve our issues.
Realistically though I don't recall any other top club making the combined series of missteps we have since Fergie retired. From losing both Fergie and Gill at the same time, casting off an entire coaching staff who had won things so David bloody Moyes could hire who he wanted, then allowing numerous senior experienced players to leave across 2-3 seasons. The entire winning culture was ripped out in one short period of time.
Given all of that what you need to turn things around is 2-3 successful transfer windows in a row and a coach who knows what he's doing. You need to hit gold like Liverpool did several summers in a row. You need a signing to suddenly emerge as a superstar like Chelsea have had with Cole Palmer. Our signings have still ranged from promising to disastrous.
Regardless, I don't agree that INEOS are being reactive. They very pro-actively rebuilt the footballing structure at the club and have committed huge resources to update Carrington. Berrada and Ashworth haven't been in post long enough to judge and much of this summers recruitment would have been a mish-mash of the old regime and the new. Their roles though are judged on a 3-5yr period of time not a 5-month tenure.
Ten Hag seems to have reached the stage where even when our tactics do work (rarely and against weaker teams) something else goes wrong. Ultimately, results are what matters and INEOS can't keep waiting. They have to change the only thing they can and that's the manager now.
Best at talking best in class.
He is a real person. Look him up
Without meaning to pick on you in particular, what logical basis is there to be "sure" that INEOS will either a) get it right, or b) have the control and backing of the Glazers even if they did know how to?
So here's my two sense and I'm sorry but its not going to sound very positive, but its based on what I know about Ratcliffe and what I think we can all see is happening, which, to anyone who does know about Ratcliffe, shouldn't be a surprise at all.
Firstly, Jim Ratcliffe is a business man. He is an expert at making himself money. He is not in any way a demonstrated expert at running a successful football club. He OWNS a football club, but not a successful one or a comparable one to Man Utd. He is a demonstrated expert of the same thing that the Glazers are, which is making money out of an asset. He's good at the politics side of business, which is why he said all the right things to get people on side during the sale/tender process, but nothing he said at the time was based on anything other than it being what he knew people wanted to hear. The reason there is no evident plan is because the plan was simply to get what he wanted, which he now has. That is how he and people like him operate. I have no doubt he WANTS United to be successful, but he doesn't necessarily know how to do that because a football club doesn't work in the same way as a rocket or fracking company does.
The second thing with Jim Ratcliffe is, he has a track record of treating his employees poorly, to squeeze what tiny extra profit he can into his own pockets. Something which he has already brought to the table at United. This does not translate well imo to running a successful premier league team. It does not get people on side or believing that you will deliver them success. It grinds them down into doing the job. The only people within an organisation it might appeal to are the higher ups who might pocket a bit more money for themselves. Premier league footballers and for the most part coaching staff are generally from working class backgrounds, and in the case of United are mostly millionaires with inflated egos. They are the front line performers and they aren't going to respond positively to sacking off the office or backroom staff to save pennies, and seeing people they relate to more than the execs losing their jobs. They will also not respond positively to being shit talked to the media and told they are all for sale at the right price, or that "things will get better before they get worse", again insinuating they are not good enough and the problems are their fault. This isn't the same as one of Ratcliffe's factories where he can just bully the workforce around with demotivation tactics. You need the playing personnel positively motivated because in order to succeed they need to be at 100% every week. If you grind them down into just doing the job, then that is what you get, which results in things like losing at home to Bournemouth. You only have to listen to or read up on some of Ratcliffe's comments to realise how out of touch he is with ordinary people, i.e. his employees, which includes all of our players, coaches, manager.
This would be fine if he just stayed out of site and kept his mouth shut, and left the management of the playing staff and the players to others, but he/INEOS haven't done this. How often would you see or hear Sir Alex, Klopp, Pep, or any owner or exec of any successful team, speak negatively about the players or coaches they are in charge of? It never happens and that is not a coincidence imo. For the most part you don't hear from the ownership at all other than an official statement if someone important leaves or has to be sacked.
The one positive thing I think Ratcliffe has done since, is employ a team of people to run the football side of the club, who might actually have a clue how to do it. In doing so effectively admitting he has no real clue how to do this himself...and I think there will in time be positive benefits from that, but what you have to keep in mind is these people are still working with their hands tied behind the Glazer ownership and also now Ratcliffe. The club is not set up to be successful, it is set up to save and make its owners money. Yes Ten Hag has not done a good job, and yes he might eventually be sacked, but then the club is not an attractive prospect to any manager with the ability and pedigree to be successful. The same applies to players. The aura of managing United is no longer a thing for the very top level coaches, and the aura of playing for them is not enough for a footballer who has ambition to win major trophies. There needs to be solid backing and foundation behind it, and as long as we're stuck with our current ownership set up, there isn't.
On the Qatar thing. I wasn't exactly Qatar in, but to me it was the lesser of two evils, because it would have meant ridding the club of the Glazer ownership that I THOUGHT everyone was really desperate to be rid of, and also would have meant the club being structured on being successful, and from a moral point of view, the more focus on the ownership, the more chance to shine a spotlight on whatever the issues people have a moral objection to. I found the whole being dead set against it on this basis peculiar, as I don't remember United fans boycotting the world cup en masse, or marching around outside St James's Park when Newcastle were taken over. It seemed to me less about caring about the moral issues and more pretending to because there was a chance to get on a high horse and look better than others, in the process cutting off nose to spite face. and I got some shite for saying this at the time and might do again, but unless anyone reading this DID boycott the world cup, and boycotts watching all of City and Newcastle's games, or has actually done anything, at all, to combat the things they proclaimed to take such an objection to, then I'm sorry but they are full of sh*t. Because none of these issues have been solved by Jim Ratcliffe buying a 25% steak in United. It has not made the world less homophobic or more tolerant to women's rights, or lessened the cruelty or suffering towards anyone.
My realistic view is that barring the odd freak season we are going to have to settle for being an also ran now, with the danger being with our current set up its much easier to slide further down the pyramid than it is to climb it. You can see already the criticism starting to build for the likes of Ashworth and I think they are the last people who should be in the firing line (and I say this as someone who's joined in the criticism). Whether Ashworth is good enough or not he is employed specifically to help the football team and that will be his aim. The issue is that when you look at the set up above him, he is going to be swimming against the tide and competing with clubs who, in terms of the level we expect to be at, aren't. The best I think fans can do at this point is get behind the players and the staff who are there to try and help things on the pitch, and try to create a more positive environment, which I know sounds naive and stupid but I do think footballers are reactive a lot to the fans and the environment they are trying to perform in.
Apologies for how long that was.
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They don't dare to fire Ten Hag. So I doubt they would have the balls to go to FA and seek the VAR audio from the penalty decision.
This been brewing for a decade now. Not saying this because of our recent relegation form, but im meaning to say this for few seasons now.
The rot is too deep. The club needs purging, couple of relegations to get rid of these leeches and makes it accesible to common people who actually care to rebuild the club. We already halfway gone the way of nottingham forest, there is no coming back from this with states buying other clubs as well. And if they are smart, we may come back up with some decent infrastructure in the next few decades. After that we have to wait for our 3rd messiah as per our past history for us to be relevent once again.
I feel very privileged to watch us win everything in my lifetime, its all seems a couple of dimensions in the past. Its been a wonferful ride, but its over. Its been over for a long long time.
The quicker you all accept this bitter truth, the better it will be for all of us.
The rot is too deep. The club needs purging, couple of relegations to get rid of these leeches and makes it accesible to common people who actually care to rebuild the club. We already halfway gone the way of nottingham forest, there is no coming back from this with states buying other clubs as well. And if they are smart, we may come back up with some decent infrastructure in the next few decades. After that we have to wait for our 3rd messiah as per our past history for us to be relevent once again.
I feel very privileged to watch us win everything in my lifetime, its all seems a couple of dimensions in the past. Its been a wonferful ride, but its over. Its been over for a long long time.
The quicker you all accept this bitter truth, the better it will be for all of us.
There's a reason Nice and Lausanne are nowhere after years of INEOS management. Nothing else really needs to be said after that. If it was still only the Glazers, there would be outrage and the green and yellow scarves would be out. But because it's INEOS, they remain safely tucked inside a drawer because now it's a part of a meticulous, grand plan to save Manchester United by the local boyhood fan. The Glazers couldn't have asked for a better shield to take the heat off of them. This club is finished under the joint operation of the Glazers and Ratcliffe. The only thing that can maybe steer this ship now is a total ownership change.
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2 months ago yes, now absolutely not. With the spending restrictions we're going to be under it's going to be near impossible to catch up.
Not in the slightest. If anything, alarm bells are sounding already. The decision to take up the option in Ten Hag’s contract was, at very best, a sympathy vote to apologise for spending the summer trying to find anyone to take over but if they don’t act today then what is going on?
I feel people here are going over the top with blaming INEOS. They can't just fire a manager after 3 months of deciding to continue the manager.
Even if its the thing to do.
I have always been ETH in. But I am afraid his time is coming to an end. But i still insist that the players will put the next manager down as well.
How INEOS deals with these players is the real indicator of their success for me. Bruno and Rashford are at the centre of this talk. Both players are keeping the team up in the short run and keeping the team down in the long run.
But I am confident. I can't not believe in them. Life would be difficult if this continues. I can't take it anymore.
Even if its the thing to do.
I have always been ETH in. But I am afraid his time is coming to an end. But i still insist that the players will put the next manager down as well.
How INEOS deals with these players is the real indicator of their success for me. Bruno and Rashford are at the centre of this talk. Both players are keeping the team up in the short run and keeping the team down in the long run.
But I am confident. I can't not believe in them. Life would be difficult if this continues. I can't take it anymore.
This is exactly my thinking.
Everytime I think of how I would run Liverpool I just look at how we are run.
What I don't understand is the lack of attitude of the match going fans. Being 2nd, 3rd, 5th or 15th it's the same.
Despite it's too early to judge them, i already see some bad signs. First of all, i was sick seeing the club signing crap players like Antony, Malacia, Weghorst, Amrabat (even on loan) and so on just because they are dutch/played for Ajax/played in Holland. I really hoped that INEOS will take the responsibility away from him and will sign proper players eventually. And then, the dutch distaster Zirkzee arrived (i really DO NOT understand who thought that with his awful Serie A statistics he's gonna be the solution to our scoring drought but was completely wrong), the dutch and former Ajax player de Ligt arrived who's value and performance seriously declined since he left Ajax and Bayern were happy to sell him as Max Eberl claimed that he isn't aggressive enough on the pitch, the former Ajax player Mazraoui arrived who simply wasn't good enough to make it in the starting 11 of Bayern, and they paid a ridiculous 60 million for an injury prone 18 years old who had only a year left of his contract. I know what de Ligt and Mazraoui weren't bad signings so far, but still I don't see any change so far to be fair.
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We'd be psg. Buying Galacticos and still failing in Europe.
Any new owner would just buy 'the best in class' a la Ineos, who, despite the obvious, have only been at United for five minutes.
Agreed. It's incredible how fallow we are in front of goal. Some terrible misses yesterday in what was a bizarre reminder of the Palace debacle.
Already read about a thousand comments about how United miss because ten Hag has done something. Sleepwalking into disaster, that. We'll
replace ten Hag, do a manager bounce and continually fail once the players run the new coach.
Happened with Ole.
How is Yoro injury prone, though? He was always available in 2022–23 according to historical fitness records (but not always selected because he was 16/17 years old), and missed 1 match in 2023–24 (racking up the most minutes for a centerback in Ligue 1 after Rasmus Nicolaisen).
A lot of times, you have to pay a big fees for special talents, especially when the likes of Real Madrid are also interested in them, and take a long term view. For example, not many Arsenal supporters mind Saliba's €31 million fee these days, or the fact that he was loaned back to Saint-Étienne, and subsequently Nice and Marseille, playing no first team football with Arsenal for 3 years.
Leny Yoro (LOSC), 2e joueur le plus utilisé à son poste dans l’Hexagone
My opinion is that they have messed up the manager situation at the least. Maybe you can't blame them for keeping ETH on, as they had not got all the people in place. The fact he is not sacked yet is a negative for me.