Antony: why the concern - use the player performance thread
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Caf writing off young players in their first seasons in a new league after a mere 6 months. 
While I think that the criticisims of Antony are way over the top, I agree with this. Giggs was in an era of outright wingers whose main remit was to beat his man, get to the byline and cross. Modern wingers cut inside a lot more and are expected to score more goals. It's like comparing the goalscoring of box to box midfielders of the 90's with the modern holding / deep lying midfielders. Apples and oranges.
Strange name for the thread.
Antony probably doesn't even have chest hair.
The scary thing about his lack of assists is he's not even creating a lot of chances that are being missed either. He's just not creating anything.
Genuinely think the step up from Dutch league to PL has been hard for him where as Martinez has adapted much better. It can happen.
Garnacho is already the better player for me. Far more direct, beats his man more easily, not afraid to use his weaker foot and also looks more of a threat around the box.
Genuinely think the step up from Dutch league to PL has been hard for him where as Martinez has adapted much better. It can happen.
Garnacho is already the better player for me. Far more direct, beats his man more easily, not afraid to use his weaker foot and also looks more of a threat around the box.
Especially when he’s on for 12/13 goals in his debut season as a wide man.Caf writing off young players in their first seasons in a new league after a mere 6 months.
He’s been better since he returned from injury. I think it’s fairly obvious that he’s going to be a valuable part of this squad going forward but just need to accept and ignore the fact we probably overpaid. He’s not an £80m player, but we live in a world where many players go for fees like that when in reality very few are worth it.
This. I’m afraid if you cost in excess of 80 million the idea is you deliver relatively sharply. I much prefer Antony being in our team than some of the alternatives but touching on about Garnacho. He’s 18, has never even played regularly in the man’s game and yet is outperforming Antony in the metrics you mention.
Why not? ETH is already using him like a CM, just at an advanced position. He carries the ball 30 to 40 yards, press resistance and helps the team advanaces the position in a controlled manner like a CM.
If in doubt, watch the Barcelona game. Antony came on as a sub, opened up the game and scored the winner.
He is confident, brave and unpredictable, often attracting 2+ players/defenders because of it, opening up spaces elsewhere. Also his pass accuracy is over 80% I think.
He used to piss me off but I’m starting to see why EtH likes to use him. Not the perfect player but he’s an extra flow of adrenalin sometimes.
He is confident, brave and unpredictable, often attracting 2+ players/defenders because of it, opening up spaces elsewhere. Also his pass accuracy is over 80% I think.
He used to piss me off but I’m starting to see why EtH likes to use him. Not the perfect player but he’s an extra flow of adrenalin sometimes.
So we are playing an amazing season because of him scoring against Barca, City and Arsenal. Two of which happened 6 months ago, why are we not considering his recent performances which have been terrible where he has failed to score or assist in any match bar the Barca goal.
I am comparing him to Garnacho because he is also a winger and plays for Manchester United, so we can’t even compare players who are possibly his competition, is 18 years old compared to him, cost us next to nothing and playing fearlessly against a player who is a seasoned player, who can’t cross or take on his man to save his life, performing poorly and cost us 80m.
Furthermore, really do you think Rashford and Garnacho are playing well because Antony is playing so amazing and attracting all attention, for your information we also played Sancho and Bruno at RW as well and they had mixed performances but Rashford and Garnacho continued their performances, so it was never because of Antony and his close control and passing ability that they performed.
Lastly if we are not allowed to discuss the performances of players who cost 80m and are not up to much we can close the forum.
There is no doubt that we are doing very well and everybody is exteremely satisfied with ETH and our team, but the obvious weaknesses have to be highlighted and discussed or maybe you are one of those fans who would close their eyes until results are going well without accounting for performances just like Ole did sometimes and when things start catching up they become top reds and manager should be given 3 years.
I think because in general the older posters have a better understanding of football. 90% of posts these days on here especially regarding player performances are absolute drivel and expose the posters lack of understanding.
I've been on the Caf for a long time and lament the drop in quality of posts/posters in more recent years. Nowadays have to wade through 10-20 rubbish posts to come across a decent one in any thread.
He helps us keep the width and adds in that dimension.
Not worried.
Antony has 6 goals and 1 assist this season. Raphinha has 7 goals and 9 assists this season. He also had 17 goals and 12 assists in 60-something games with Leeds, who were absolutely horrendous, so it's not like he doesn't know the Premier League. And he is starting ahead of Antony in the NT. Just a superior player overall, but for far less money. I didn't rate him that much before, but I started to change my mind after having to watch Antony.
But that ship sailed anyway. Hopefully, Amad comes good next season.
It's funny because apparently Barca want shot of Raphinha this summer.
I sometimes wonder whether people are watching the same player. It is not Antony that provides the balance, it is having a player out wide that provides the balance. It's tactical, not some amazing Antony inspired effect on the team. The team changes when different players play... Varane is different to Martinez, or Shaw when he plays Centre Back.. but they are still all Centre Back for example. The team improves because of their quality in playing that position. This crap about big game player, and where is that being shown then? You telling me the Cup Tie in the week was not a big game? How disrespectful to both clubs and fans!
His mentality and attitude show nothing exceptional to me. Wort has a great attitude. Rashford, Shaw, DDG, Martinez, Casimero.. the whole flaming team has a good attitude, and I wouldn't suggest Antony's is anything outstanding.
Antony is nowhere near the player I expected for £80, or 100m or whatever. Nowhere near.
I was expecting a direct winger that would run at and terrorise his fallback. That’s probably why I feel so disappointed with him.
Unfortunately I just don’t think he’s that type of winger. He provides great balance to the team but that’s really not enough for an £80 million attacker.
Unfortunately I just don’t think he’s that type of winger. He provides great balance to the team but that’s really not enough for an £80 million attacker.
How the hell would you know what people’s perceptions were? Giggs was a considerably
better player and was also considered as such.
Ryan Giggs didn’t spend every single game cutting inside and shooting. You’re comparing a succulent grape to a raisin. But then you wouldn’t have a fecking clue because you weren’t even alive.
I understand the comparison to Garnacho given that they're both young and playing in the same position on opposite sides of the pitch but in my opinion it's slightly misguided.
The main reason I think is essentially because he has had a few more years (given that it's a 23 year old vs an 18 year old) getting used to playing in foreign leagues at a good level. Garnacho came to us at 16 years old and probably due to being younger, adapted a lot quicker to playing with this team and in the PL. It seems like Antony needs a bit more time to shake off his experience playing in Brazil and at Ajax, but the assumption is that for a player supposedly worth 80million, that should happen instantly. Not sure what it is but something tells me he is a better player than has been displayed to date.
Despite all that, I do agree and think we overpaid but not due to his ability. It was because Ajax didn't really want to sell him and EtH wanted a player he had experience working with for some continuity. If we'd have paid a more appropriate amount I don't think he'd be getting the stick he has received, but it goes hand in hand with being an expensive player. If we end up paying 100million for Rice then everything he does will get scrutinised because it's just the way most fans tend to go (me included).
The main reason I think is essentially because he has had a few more years (given that it's a 23 year old vs an 18 year old) getting used to playing in foreign leagues at a good level. Garnacho came to us at 16 years old and probably due to being younger, adapted a lot quicker to playing with this team and in the PL. It seems like Antony needs a bit more time to shake off his experience playing in Brazil and at Ajax, but the assumption is that for a player supposedly worth 80million, that should happen instantly. Not sure what it is but something tells me he is a better player than has been displayed to date.
Despite all that, I do agree and think we overpaid but not due to his ability. It was because Ajax didn't really want to sell him and EtH wanted a player he had experience working with for some continuity. If we'd have paid a more appropriate amount I don't think he'd be getting the stick he has received, but it goes hand in hand with being an expensive player. If we end up paying 100million for Rice then everything he does will get scrutinised because it's just the way most fans tend to go (me included).
Are you being deliberately obtuse? No, a 5th round FA Cup home tie against West Ham isn't a big game, in any way, shape or form, hence why fecking Maguire and Lindelöf played. Don't be ridiculous just to try making a point.
We've played Sancho out right, Rashford out right, Bruno out right, Elanga, we look a miles better team with Antony there, not least because he's so press resistant so he helps out more than any other winger to keep possession and recycle the ball.
Forget the money.
Regardless of output (which I actually think has been pretty good for a young player in his first season here) for me it's just nice to see an actual specialist right-winger playing there. It gives us balance that we haven't had for years. When was the last time we had an actual right winger playing there?
Regardless of output (which I actually think has been pretty good for a young player in his first season here) for me it's just nice to see an actual specialist right-winger playing there. It gives us balance that we haven't had for years. When was the last time we had an actual right winger playing there?
Really? Personally i see it the other way around.
I see the older posters make post refering back to the past. Post like 'I want my winger to be like Giggs or Kancheslkis. Stong foot on the side he plays on. Direct, pace and power to attack the full back and whip a cross into the box to the proper striker'.
Antony isnt a player like the one described above and that makes Antony a 'waste of money'. Posters that didnt evolve how they see football and dont want to see that football is much different these days.
Older i mean real age age, not account age. Although i am just assuming people making those back to the past posts are older.
I don't get why some poster's seem to be taking the criticism of him as an unjust attack on him. ETH made five signings this summer, Eriksen, Martinez, Casemiro, Malacia and Antony.
Antony is the least performing of the five and by quite a distance if we factor in expectation and transfer fees.
If we extend that to the starting 11, he's probably the player performing the least excluding the striker position which in Martial or Weghorst performance thread they get criticised for. You could argue RB also and the same would hold true in Dalot or AWBs thread. If Antony was putting in top performances this thread wouldn't exist.
With that said the biggest issue for Antony is his skillset for me. I think everyone recognises that he's 23 and only in his first season. Young players will always need time but in turn they need to show what they are capable of in order to built a trust in their potential. Antony lacks so many key skills needed to be top player in my opinion. Usually you cite decision making as the weakness of young players but in Antony’s case its a clear lack of ability so I'm not sold on the potential.
Antony is the least performing of the five and by quite a distance if we factor in expectation and transfer fees.
If we extend that to the starting 11, he's probably the player performing the least excluding the striker position which in Martial or Weghorst performance thread they get criticised for. You could argue RB also and the same would hold true in Dalot or AWBs thread. If Antony was putting in top performances this thread wouldn't exist.
With that said the biggest issue for Antony is his skillset for me. I think everyone recognises that he's 23 and only in his first season. Young players will always need time but in turn they need to show what they are capable of in order to built a trust in their potential. Antony lacks so many key skills needed to be top player in my opinion. Usually you cite decision making as the weakness of young players but in Antony’s case its a clear lack of ability so I'm not sold on the potential.
I thought ETH made an interesting comment the other day: "the players who make up the best team will play". He seemed to be saying that it's not always the most talented (or even in-form) players that will play, but the ones who can work together best - ie. becoming something more than the sum of their parts. He is seeing the bigger picture (as we would expect him to I guess), whereas some posters seem to be looking at Anthony in isolation.
nonsense. he must have been going way faster when he wrecked his bmw.
Sancho gets so much patience in to end of his 2nd year but Antony gets nothing after 6 months.
Antony has been better than Sancho for me. Sancho cost just as expensive.
Antony has been better than Sancho for me. Sancho cost just as expensive.
He has clear pros to his game and some quite evident cons.
I like his tenacity, the fact that he fears no one, his pressing, his shooting ability/
I've an issue with his dribbling and his chance creation. His decision-making is also very iffy.
Ideally, you'd want an excellent winger who- while scoring every now and again like Antony does, and kudos to him for that-
will mainly create a lot of chances. Sterling at his pomp, Leroy Sane, Giggs obviously are what I have in mind.
Yes, Antony stretches defenses, but the fact that he almost never beats his man makes for a rather mild stretching.
Sanco is also disappointing in this regard.
For me, a winger who creates lots of good chances but struggles to score is a much more valuable asset than a winger who's the opposite.
If someone has both of these feats in his locker (Mbappe, say) then great, but these are hard to find.
I wonder what he'll develop into because at Ajax he seemed to be a very good crosser of the ball.
(and generally, someone who can bend them from outside of the box to the top corner will also be at least a decent crosser).
I like his tenacity, the fact that he fears no one, his pressing, his shooting ability/
I've an issue with his dribbling and his chance creation. His decision-making is also very iffy.
Ideally, you'd want an excellent winger who- while scoring every now and again like Antony does, and kudos to him for that-
will mainly create a lot of chances. Sterling at his pomp, Leroy Sane, Giggs obviously are what I have in mind.
Yes, Antony stretches defenses, but the fact that he almost never beats his man makes for a rather mild stretching.
Sanco is also disappointing in this regard.
For me, a winger who creates lots of good chances but struggles to score is a much more valuable asset than a winger who's the opposite.
If someone has both of these feats in his locker (Mbappe, say) then great, but these are hard to find.
I wonder what he'll develop into because at Ajax he seemed to be a very good crosser of the ball.
(and generally, someone who can bend them from outside of the box to the top corner will also be at least a decent crosser).
if people can stop refactoring history to turn Giggs into some high scoring proficient winger that would be good. My comparison was in regards to 1) current stats, 2) he keeps defenders occupied.
100%
For all the stick Sancho is getting he's still one of our more creative players this year despite his non-pitch issues. He was our second highest creator last year as well. Not that he's anywhere close to his Bundesliga-numbers.
I might have been too harsh on Antony, because I found out there's actually 20+ players among our rivals that creates less than him, mostly defenders of course.
Our front four creativity in general is quite shocking. We're so fecked if Bruno ever gets injured. It's weird how people constantly criticize him whilst defending this dud.
Firstly he didn’t cost as much, secondly he’s younger than Antony and thirdly he has a better prior record so there’s at least something to pin hope on. Sancho has had plenty of criticism. Truth is neither have been worth the fee so far.
Caf writing off young players in their first seasons in a new league after a mere 6 months.
Its not just the Caf though, its modern football in general. I've seen people writing off Cody Gakpo and Darwin Nunez at Liverpool after about 3 or 4 games, same with some of the new Chelsea signings too.
Overall people are far too impatient now and expect footballers to immediately hit the ground running.
WTF does this even mean, I thought we were discussing a footballer not aisle 3 in Tesco's
So like footballers, they tend to get better with age
NO NO NO NO!!!
Just goals, assists passes and xG around here mate. Don't talk about the unmeasurable stuff or you'll cause a stroke to many of our fellow forum partners.
And that's spot on, players, not just Antony, are judged individually rather than how they work as part of the team, our RB's have improved substantially this season and IMO that is partly due to Antony, he is one of the best ball carriers in the team, if it wasn't for the fact he's so one footed I'd say there was case to be made that he'd be a good option to play the role that we apparently want De Jong to do.
There's another thread asking the question do United fans tryst ETH, the answer is of course an overwhelming yes, Antony is an ETH signing so maybe we should lay off and bow to his superior knowledge for the time being
I can't believe people still say Antony is slow, basically describes how silly this thread is.
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