It does seem like, even in a season where we're challenging for everything, we need to complain about something!
Antony: why the concern - use the player performance thread
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It does seem like, even in a season where we're challenging for everything, we need to complain about something!
It's a fair conclusion to take. Raphiniha is an excellent player. Hard to argue that that purchase wasn't better value than Anthony. Nevertheless, they are very different players and Antony is a very capable footballer. I think all of us hope/expect him to improve over the next season or two
I think he's a big game player - he plays well in important matches and doesn't give a fck about the riff raff of the PL
Fact is we look better with him on the side
Fact is we look better with him on the side
This whole idea that you shouldn’t complain when the team is playing well is so bad. Maguire has won majority of games he has played in over the last few months so he is pretty good now i guess
You can't believe everything you read on the web, but it appears Antony is 23 years old. Still young, but not that young. I don't have any "concerns" about Antony, but I expected a bigger impact from him so far. But you can see there's a world class footballer waiting to break out soon.
Raphiniha didn't exactly pull up trees in the PL though did he
Next @DevilRed revelation:They are the two things he is rated at
"De Gea's shot stopping is very underrated"
He was pretty effective! How many RWs were better than him over the last two seasons? Objectively speaking, probably only Salah and maybe Marhez, Kulusevski and Saka.
Where has Antony pulled up trees?
Theyre both good players. I won't begrudge anyone for saying Raphiniha is the better of the two.
He needed and still does has to adapt to the Premier league, Dutch league is different in recent games he's improved , been more direct and is giving the right pass, also he hasn't been cutting In on left foot and shooting, like he was at the start of his time at UTD. It was all the time now he does it less often.
ETH and the rest of the squad will learn from this season.
ETH and the rest of the squad will learn from this season.
I agree to a certain extent, as an attacking threat I was expecting a bit more than we've generally seen, but his defensive side of the game is vastly superior to what I was expecting and that is a big plus in my book, ball retention has been a big issue for us in recent years and he excels in that department, he clearly has a good rapport with AWB, if we can get AWB to improve his final ball then we're on to a good thing on the right
My apologies. Next time I shall use vague ass pulls like "stretching the play" and "bringing balance" to come to the conclusion he is actually good. Or something. And I'd expect from someone with a "valid understanding of player development" to at least know the actual age of the player first. Ah, well.
If Antony was a rival player, he'd be getting shit from us non-stop, rightfully so. Like Nunez is.
I'm not sure if this is really a serious post.
He is very good when he is standing still and has one or two opponents around him, often he is able to dribble past them it just rarely lead to any goal chances. How many assists has he produced?
I really hope he proves me wrong but I fail to see the potential.
Those saying we play better with him are right but that has more to do with the lack of alternatives, which means that when he is not there then either Bruno or Rashford are and they are then missed elsewhere.
I really hope he proves me wrong but I fail to see the potential.
Those saying we play better with him are right but that has more to do with the lack of alternatives, which means that when he is not there then either Bruno or Rashford are and they are then missed elsewhere.
He makes our team better than Grealish/Darwin/Mudryk make their teams, so on that basis I am very happy with him.
I thought the final was one of his best games so far for us, and that can only be a good sign.
I thought the final was one of his best games so far for us, and that can only be a good sign.
The focus is on the price differential which IMO is meaningless, the notion that player is not worth 85 million or whatever but would be a good player at 40 million is ludicrous, if he does what you want he's worth whatever you want to pay for him, if doesn't do the job then it doesn't matter whether he was 5 million or 85
I could care less what rivals fans say. He’s a 23 years old in his first year in the PL, with no left footed right winger to rotate with. Understand player development and you’ll understand why making any sort of conclusion about him is asinine, let alone comparing him to a more experienced player playing in an inferior league
Odd take that, there’s nothing “lucky” about it, he’s one of the reasons the team is much better, he adds great balane, great workrate, appears a true big game player, is another with a great mentality and attitude, and he’s incredibly press resistant. We look a much better side when he starts.
I think he had form for this at Ajax as well. Put in a eye-catching performance almost every time against big name teams in the CL, but didn't seem to do much against PEC Zwolle or whoever.
Could be a bit of a reverse Gakpo.
It’s not a coincidence that this season Dalot and AWB have shined behind Antony
We could have got someone else world class for 85 million though, not 5 million.
I'm sorry but you're being incredibly kind to him there. Working hard and playing the ball back simple to the fullback or CM isn't the reason we are now a good team.
Casemiro Varane Martinez and Rashford finding his mojo again are far bigger factors not to forget a world class manager.
He's not been creating any chances for anyone. The praise from some folk is bizarre.
he had some good games allready that show that he can play on a high level and brings something to the team. the goal against barca looks easy maybe but thats his quality that makes it look easy. a superb and cool finish in a high pressure game. to handle pressure that well is a trade in itself. eth will know
On the left someone recently described to me as "painfully average" in a different thread, on the right our new defensive winger with amazing work rate and defensive contribution.
He can hold onto the ball and pass it backwards, that's about his only remarkable traits. Those are traits other players usually develop towards the tail-end of their career because they can't rely on their speed/skills anymore.
The whole mantra about his defensive contribution is just an illusion because he's slightly better than Sancho at it. Truth is they are both rather poor at it.
Those saying "ETH bought him and I trust Ten Hag" is fine, you should, but keep in mind we brought some players in during Fergie's reign too that was questionable/didn't perform to the expectations. They usually didn't last.
As it stands - if we could recoup even half this summer I'd bite their hand off.
He can hold onto the ball and pass it backwards, that's about his only remarkable traits. Those are traits other players usually develop towards the tail-end of their career because they can't rely on their speed/skills anymore.
The whole mantra about his defensive contribution is just an illusion because he's slightly better than Sancho at it. Truth is they are both rather poor at it.
Those saying "ETH bought him and I trust Ten Hag" is fine, you should, but keep in mind we brought some players in during Fergie's reign too that was questionable/didn't perform to the expectations. They usually didn't last.
As it stands - if we could recoup even half this summer I'd bite their hand off.
I’m starting to really like him and firmly believe he’ll be a very good player.
Feck the caf, it also told me we should sell Rashford and he was worse than Danny Welbeck so can’t trust 80+% of the opinions in here!
Feck the caf, it also told me we should sell Rashford and he was worse than Danny Welbeck so can’t trust 80+% of the opinions in here!
The stats are damning but people who watch our games already knew that. If he was a Liverpool player you can bet we would have a "Let's laugh at Antony" thread and it being bumped every week.On the left someone recently described to me as "painfully average" in a different thread, on the right our new defensive winger with amazing work rate and defensive contribution.
He can hold onto the ball and pass it backwards, that's about his only remarkable traits. Those are traits other players usually develop towards the tail-end of their career because they can't rely on their speed/skills anymore.
The whole mantra about his defensive contribution is just an illusion because he's slightly better than Sancho at it. Truth is they are both rather poor at it.
Those saying "ETH bought him and I trust Ten Hag" is fine, you should, but keep in mind we brought some players in during Fergie's reign too that was questionable/didn't perform to the expectations. They usually didn't last.
As it stands - if we could recoup even half this summer I'd bite their hand off.
It’s the fundamental understanding of the player development process that you’re missing here. It’s fun you should try it.On the left someone recently described to me as "painfully average" in a different thread, on the right our new defensive winger with amazing work rate and defensive contribution.
He can hold onto the ball and pass it backwards, that's about his only remarkable traits. Those are traits other players usually develop towards the tail-end of their career because they can't rely on their speed/skills anymore.
The whole mantra about his defensive contribution is just an illusion because he's slightly better than Sancho at it. Truth is they are both rather poor at it.
Those saying "ETH bought him and I trust Ten Hag" is fine, you should, but keep in mind we brought some players in during Fergie's reign too that was questionable/didn't perform to the expectations. They usually didn't last.
As it stands - if we could recoup even half this summer I'd bite their hand off.
So the laughing at or being laughed at by rival fans is what’s impairing your ability to wrap your head around player development and adjustment to playing in the PL? Some players hit the ground running, some players dont. Bottom line is you do not have sufficient data to make any conclusions or bold proclamations. He doesn’t even have half a seasons worth of PL minutes ffs. Good thing scouts don’t take fan banter into account when they evaluate.
I can wrap my head around player development, don't worry. For example I believe Sancho can still become a good player if he sorts his mental issues although it's his 2nd season with us already and he has been pretty underwhelming so far. Antony? I just don't see it in him at all. Just my opinion.
So you can't get a world class player for 5 million, I beg to differ but that's neither here or there, a world class player is a world class player irrespective of what he costs
Outlier. The majority of the time ability dictates price.
My concern is that current level is his top level. Might sound crazy but I actually don't think he improved since the start of the season. The team has improved so he has more chances / gets into good positions but still does very little with it as yesterday game shows. He plays with his head down, shoot shoot shoot. It gets him some goals but we would be better off if he was aware of other options.
At the same time I value more what he brings to the team. I do think ETH wants something different from right wing since left wing is ultra attacking.
At the same time I value more what he brings to the team. I do think ETH wants something different from right wing since left wing is ultra attacking.
Same here. Sends us through against Barca one day, disliked on RedCafe the next.
The title on this thread is crap as well. Back a player up instead. Maybe he’s not worth his price now, but too early to have the knives out imo.
I really rate him for a 22 year old, first half season PL player.
Sure he needs to improve, but so far he has shown necessary skills and important goals. He links well and is an intelligent player, will only get better.
Sure he needs to improve, but so far he has shown necessary skills and important goals. He links well and is an intelligent player, will only get better.
Ten Hag thought he was worth it. I go with Ten Hag.
I'd hate to have seen this place in the 6 months or so after we signed evra and vidic.
Sometimes it takes a while for them to settle in and get used to new demands of the PL.
He's clearly got something, and has scored important goals even if he isn't setting the place on fire every time he plays.
Sometimes it takes a while for them to settle in and get used to new demands of the PL.
He's clearly got something, and has scored important goals even if he isn't setting the place on fire every time he plays.
When will he learn to kick the ball with his right foot ?
Actually, I think it is. AWB has looked good with or without him, and Dalot was already playing better last season as well as for Portugal. Unless Antony is responsible for that too.
This. We don’t have a better player on the right currently.
Totally agree that he looks limited and I have to admit he baffles the fk out of me as to why Ten Haag spent so much on him. But then I have to ask what Ten Haag sees in him. He's not daft. What I think is missing from these stats is progressive carries and a heat map. Maybe I'm wrong but I would bet Antony spends more time hugging the touchline than any other player and I bet his progressive carries are one of the best in the league. Add to that that he doesn't lose possession much and you see what Ten Haag uses him for. His main role is to just stretch the pitch, get the ball up the field and then hold on to it while the rest of the attackers join in. Ill also add whats missing is his pressures and tactical ability in a Ten Haag system. Things there are no real stats for I dont think. He is always in the right positon and works hard to press and cut off passing lanes etcOn the left someone recently described to me as "painfully average" in a different thread, on the right our new defensive winger with amazing work rate and defensive contribution.
He can hold onto the ball and pass it backwards, that's about his only remarkable traits. Those are traits other players usually develop towards the tail-end of their career because they can't rely on their speed/skills anymore.
The whole mantra about his defensive contribution is just an illusion because he's slightly better than Sancho at it. Truth is they are both rather poor at it.
Those saying "ETH bought him and I trust Ten Hag" is fine, you should, but keep in mind we brought some players in during Fergie's reign too that was questionable/didn't perform to the expectations. They usually didn't last.
As it stands - if we could recoup even half this summer I'd bite their hand off.
Obviously that's not all he does. But he needs to improve those other areas of his game. I cant ever see him being a top winger like Robben but more a really useful functional player. For instance someone like Firmino who is disregarded as a defensive striker and useless but his function in the team was crucial. Or maybe a Dirk Kuyt/Park Ji-Sung player. Not in style but underrated in their effectiveness
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