Antony under investigation by Brazilian authorities for domestic abuse | Inquiries ended | Back in the squad

Laurencio said:
Three women have asccused him;

1.His ex from a highly turbulent relationship.

2.A banker who visited his house in connection with a business deal. He allgedly violently attempted to force her into sex.

3.A law student with no connection to Antony. She alleges she was physically attacked in a taxi. She filed a report long before going public.

An ex might have an agenda and could be looking to use the situation to destroy him. A random law student might just want their 15 minutes of fame, but that doesn't explain the police report.

The banker however is much harder to dismiss. She had contact with Antony in a professional capacity, she risks losing her job and there's no financial benefit for her in going public. There's nothing obvious suggesting her accusation could be a fabrication or a clear incentive for it. If those accusations are true, then it goes to a pattern of behaviour and you have to look at the other two allegations through that lens.

With that in mind the law student's allegations aren't unique. The fact that she reported the incident to police months before going public lends credibility to the allegations.

If both those allegations are true, then you have a highly unflattering description of the man's character that lines up with the stories told by the ex. His demeanour in the alleged event at the hotel in Manchester matches the demeanour that the banker alleges to have experienced.

With all of that it seems unlikely that these stories are fabricated for revenge, fame or monetary gain. It seems far more likely that the Greenwood case gave the ex hope that Antony would be held accountable, at least by fans, and the others followed suit for the same reason.
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All very logical - do you think it means that he should be suspended?
 
izak said:
Tbh I don't understand what you mean by the bold part!
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As in usually you would not have had your name plastered all over the media, and then if you pursue the false accuser you then get associated with the crime you didn’t commit by default despite your innocence.
 
Ted Lasso said:
I genuinely don't understand your commentary. A former partner has accused him of DV and shared photos of some of her injuries. A doctor in Manchester has had to tend to her injuries in a hotel. Antony himself says he was there when dishes and glasses broke.

Let's ignore Antony's state - he is awaiting more information about potential charges and if he needs them.

I'm curious to know why you as a survivor of DV openly tell this woman is dragging Antony through the dirt rather than being sympathetic to what is factually some sort of physical trauma she has endured and whatever emotional pain that has led her to make an accusation that is putting her in the firing line of super fans?

I am friends with someone that runs a non profit to help women escape abusive relationships and this subject is one that they constantly battle. It's why reporting DV is so low - for some glorified ideology of innocence and incorrectly inflating the false accusations, people sacrifice the actual victims here.

I'm also extremely put off by the way you're cheaply weaponizing your trauma to belittle cold hard facts I spent time pulling out of respect for the dialogue.

And I'm sorry to know you suffered like that. Hopefully you've left the situation and are in a good place.
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I don't even know where to start with your post, it's a rhetorical mess filled with victim shaming and personal attacks that seemingly are the result of feeling like your "expertise" was invalidated by the revelation that the poster has experienced DV.

This is your post when you take away the personal attacks, attempts to retake authority of expertise by bringing in your friend and DV shaming;

A former partner has accused him of DV and shared photos of some of her injuries. A doctor in Manchester has had to tend to her injuries in a hotel. Antony himself says he was there when dishes and glasses broke.

Let's ignore Antony's state - he is awaiting more information about potential charges and if he needs them.
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So your retort to the post is to ignore Antony?
 
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tomaldinho1 said:
As in usually you would not have had your name plastered all over the media, and then if you pursue the false accuser you then get associated with the crime you didn’t commit by default despite your innocence.
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Okay understood, but they Neymar own was obvious why was she set free?
 
LInkash said:
All very logical - do you think it means that he should be suspended?
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He can't.

Suspensions are governed by PL employment contracts. He can only be suspended if an internal investigation finds him likely to have breached the terms of his employment - the disrepute clause for instance, or if he's in violation of some other terms covered in it - criminal proceedings are covered I believe.

Either way he can't be suspended without an investigation. Doesn't matter what I think.
 
Laurencio said:
He can't.

Suspensions are governed by PL employment contracts. He can only be suspended if an internal investigation - fact finding- finds him likely to have breached the terms of his employment - the disrepute clause for instance, or if he's in violation of some other terms covered in it - criminal proceedings are covered I believe.

Either way he can't be suspended without an investigation. Doesn't matter what I think.
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But United can suspend (or unofficially suspend) him, as we did with Greenwood, no?
 
podurban2 said:
But United can suspend (or unofficially suspend) him, as we did with Greenwood, no?
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Greenwood was arrested.

Edit: Realised I should put some more context into this. Because Greenwood was arrested Man Utd were within their rights to suspend him. Antony hasn't been arrested or been the subject of an internal investigation and therefore can't be suspended. They could try of course, but he would appeal to the PL and they would have to overrule the suspension.
 
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Laurencio said:
Three women have asccused him;

1.His ex from a highly turbulent relationship.

2.A banker who visited his house in connection with a business deal. He allgedly violently attempted to force her into sex.

3.A law student with no connection to Antony. She alleges she was physically attacked in a taxi. She filed a report long before going public.

An ex might have an agenda and could be looking to use the situation to destroy him. A random law student might just want their 15 minutes of fame, but that doesn't explain the police report.

The banker however is much harder to dismiss. She had contact with Antony in a professional capacity, she risks losing her job and there's no financial benefit for her in going public. There's nothing obvious suggesting her accusation could be a fabrication or a clear incentive for it. If those accusations are true, then it goes to a pattern of behaviour and you have to look at the other two allegations through that lens.

With that in mind the law student's allegations aren't unique. The fact that she reported the incident to police months before going public lends credibility to the allegations.

If both those allegations are true, then you have a highly unflattering description of the man's character that lines up with the stories told by the ex. His demeanour in the alleged event at the hotel in Manchester matches the demeanour that the banker alleges to have experienced.

With all of that it seems unlikely that these stories are fabricated for revenge, fame or monetary gain. It seems far more likely that the Greenwood case gave the ex hope that Antony would be held accountable, at least by fans, and the others followed suit for the same reason.
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Thank you for posting this.
 
izak said:
Okay understood, but they Neymar own was obvious why was she set free?
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No idea but in Brasil so unsure, I saw she was charged with fraud but other than that I don’t have any familiarity with the case.
 
RedRonaldo said:
I think that's it for Antony. I just can't imagine all these 3 separate cases are false accusations, I mean what are the odds? Like you've said there his ex may have agenda against him, but not likely the other two. He is probably done and its best interest for the club not to play him, at least until his is cleared of everything.
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Doesn’t matter if they’re true, there has to be evidence to prove it. Even if 100 women accuse him, he’ll get away with it without evidence. This is why there’s such a fierce debate around DV and rape, because they can be very hard to prove so offenders far too often get away with it. The accused has to be guilty beyond reasonable doubt. The alternative is even worse. So I suspect Antony will get away with all of this.
 
RedRonaldo said:
I think that's it for Antony. I just can't imagine all these 3 separate cases are false accusations, I mean what are the odds? Like you've said there his ex may have agenda against him, but not likely the other two. He is probably done and its best interest for the club not to play him, at least until his is cleared of everything.
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El Zoido said:
Doesn’t matter if they’re true, there has to be evidence to prove it. Even if 100 women accuse him, he’ll get away with it without evidence. This is why there’s such a fierce debate around DV and rape, because they can be very hard to prove so offenders far too often get away with it. The accused has to be guilty beyond reasonable doubt. The alternative is even worse. So I suspect Antony will get away with all of this.
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Agreed, unfortunately.

What are the chances that four independent men all separately accuse Kevin Spacey of sexual assault?

What are the chances a dozen women all say Benjamin Mendy is a serial rapist?

There's often a gap between what we know to be true, and what can be proven to a jury beyond all reasonable doubt (a jury are actually told that they have to be "sure" of their guilt which is rather unequivocal and controversial).

Unfortunately, the wealthy can afford the legal representation who have become expert at exploiting that gap between knowledge and proof.

To be frank, if any of the celebrities (Giggs, Mendy, Greenwood, Spacey) who have hoodwinked the CJS over the past couple years had to rely upon legal aid ("state appointed") representation, I suspect most, if not all, would be convicted.

Therein lies the issue with prosecuting celebrities. It often becomes an exercise in the advocacy skill of defence counsel rather than an actual review of the evidence. That is a byproduct of an adversarial criminal justice system though.
 
podurban2 said:
Dropped pending charges then.
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They can drop him from the match squad without giving a reason. However, the can't explicitly say it's because of this. One possibility is to say that he's not in the right state of mind to play.
 
izak said:
I'm curious to know why once a man is found innocent in cases like this, why don't they charge the women for damages!?
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While I agree that this should be done in cases where there is clear evidence of evidence tampering/manipulation with the aim of falsely accusing someone, we should keep in mind that many domestic/sexual abuse cases are dismissed due to a lack of evidence. A lack of evidence does not mean that the accuser was lying, just that it could not be proven that the accused committed the crime.

It is already very difficult for victims to speak up and get justice for this sort of crime, and we should be careful about punishments that would further dissuade genuine victims from coming forward for fear of being punished for a lack of evidence.
 
Antony is certainly a witch according to some on the Caf. Calling for someone to have their career affected for merely being accused of something. Some people really need to take a look at themselves, it's not the 17th century anymore.
 
ShinjiNinja26 said:
Why would the club punish him now?
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Not a question of punishing him. Rather damage control, etc. You could even argue it's in the best interest of the player himself (he can hardly be unaffected by this).

As for formally suspending him, they probably can't do that unless he formally arrested/charged, but then it isn't necessary either. United can easily release a statement saying it's in the best interest of all parties that he doesn't feature for the time being. And if he vehemently disagrees with this (very unlikely, I'd say), he can - what - kick up a fuss over it, I suppose, but that would hardly be beneficial to his reputation at this stage.

For the club, it's about PR, not about actively trying to "punish" him before any due process has taken place.
 
Laurencio said:
Three women have asccused him;

1.His ex from a highly turbulent relationship.

2.A banker who visited his house in connection with a business deal. He allgedly violently attempted to force her into sex.

3.A law student with no connection to Antony. She alleges she was physically attacked in a taxi. She filed a report long before going public.
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We currently know very little around the detail of the second allegation. There’s an interview tonight airing on Portuguese television. There’s a snippet that reads he wanted to have a relationship with her and then angrily pushed her when she refused. Whilst if true this is horrific it doesn’t necessarily equate to “violently attempting to force her into having sex” - we need further detail of the allegation before stating that. There’s also this article already posted in the thread from April which indicates their relationship wasn’t a business one and she actively stated to a journalist that she was Antony’s ex when trying to set-up and expose another individual into having an affair:

https://www.metropoles.com/colunas/...isa-tentou-criar-romance-com-amante-de-antony

The third allegation did not take place in a taxi. It took place in Antony’s car whilst he was driving. There were at least 4 people in the car at the time - It is alleged that a fight broke out between Antony’s friend and another woman (the alleged victim) whilst Antony was driving them from a nightclub. I read the article in the Brazilian media and it’s difficult to ascertain what Antony is accused of doing outside of throwing her out of the car and speeding away. The alleged victim ended up in hospital with an eye injury but I don’t know if it’s claimed he was responsible for those injuries.
 
United may be able to legally terminate him based on what's in the contract. As with many celebrities and sportsman with sports endorsement there are clauses that probably terminated you should you're entangled in a scandal, rightly or wrongly they dont need conviction to terminate you.

I dont know about United in particular but these sorts of contracts are quite common whereevee image, advertising and endorsement are involved

Disney terminated Depp contract, and we all know how it went.
 
Mickeza said:
We currently know very little around the detail of the second allegation. There’s an interview tonight airing on Portuguese television. There’s a snippet that reads he wanted to have a relationship with her and then angrily pushed her when she refused. Whilst if true this is horrific it doesn’t necessarily equate to “violently attempting to force her into having sex” - we need further detail of the allegation before stating that. There’s also this article already posted in the thread from April which indicates their relationship wasn’t a business one and she actively stated to a journalist that she was Antony’s ex when trying to set-up and expose another individual into having an affair:

https://www.metropoles.com/colunas/...isa-tentou-criar-romance-com-amante-de-antony

The third allegation did not take place in a taxi. It took place in Antony’s car whilst he was driving. There were at least 4 people in the car at the time - It is alleged that a fight broke out between Antony’s friend and another woman (the alleged victim) whilst Antony was driving them from a nightclub. I read the article in the Brazilian media and it’s difficult to ascertain what Antony is accused of doing outside of throwing her out of the car and speeding away. The alleged victim ended up in hospital with an eye injury but I don’t know if it’s claimed he was responsible for those injuries.
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Details are getting lost in translation from Brazilian media to the English speaking press. Thanks for clarifying.
 
Laurencio said:
Details are getting lost in translation from Brazilian media to the English speaking press. Thanks for clarifying.
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The whole thing is bonkers and proves precisely why this stuff shouldn’t be played out in the press. The fact it is being sensationalised into headlines based on translations from Brazilian and Portuguese media make it very difficult to understand what’s going on.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Not a question of punishing him. Rather damage control, etc. You could even argue it's in the best interest of the player himself (he can hardly be unaffected by this).

As for formally suspending him, they probably can't do that unless he formally arrested/charged, but then it isn't necessary either. United can easily release a statement saying it's in the best interest of all parties that he doesn't feature for the time being. And if he vehemently disagrees with this (very unlikely, I'd say), he can - what - kick up a fuss over it, I suppose, but that would hardly be beneficial to his reputation at this stage.

For the club, it's about PR, not about actively trying to "punish" him before any due process has taken place.
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It surely affects him, but-

a. There's a chance he doesn't want to acknowledge that.
b. He might view a suspension as United agreeing with the accusations / giving in to public pressure.

I don't know what I'd do if I was one of the decision-makers at United right now.
From Antony's POV, I imagine he'd like to keep playing so long as nothing points towards him doing anything illegal.

I'd be fine with United suspending him from a PR perspective mainly because of the MG scandal;
It might be for the best of the team. But if Antony then said he felt hard done by it, I'd see his point.

Anyway, you'd think each side's lawyers' would advise them to zip it and let the police do their thing?
Quite weird how they both speak to the media, where their every slip-up could be faced against them in the future...
 
Rhyme Animal said:
Wtf is this shit!?

She’s not ‘weaponising her trauma’, she just happens to disagree with you and has mentioned that she’s someone who has actually dealt with DV herself, rather than, you know, someone who’s just spouting numbers and trying to mansplain the issue of DV to someone who’s actually been through it.

There’s been an increasingly uncomfortable trend on here within these topics of men trying to speak for women.

There’s a lot of it with Greenwood’s partner as well - she’s posting on IG, giving her narrative and there’s a real push of ‘I know what’s best for her better than she does’, ‘I’ll decide what’s really going on in her life’.

It’s done under the guise of ‘caring for women’, but in many cases it’s starting to really just come across as belittling and infantilising the woman, mansplaining at best.

Here you’re telling a woman that you’re ‘put off’ by her because she doesn’t agree with you and accusing her of ‘weaponising her trauma’ when she’s briefly mentioned that she’s dealt with DV first hand in order to add context to the conversation.

Maybe instead you should try actually listening to her POV instead of scattergunning numbers and telling her you know best.
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It was absolutely an unnecessary introduction of personal history that did not contribute anything to the discussion other than condescend and excuse them from more thoughtfully examining data I shared.

There's no mansplaining or belittling going on, dude. Chill the feck out. There's also none of this I know better than the victims . I've openly said now that the girl is back with her uncharged abuser and father I'm at odds of holding onto my strong feelings of distancing and ostracizing. So actually, check yourself there too.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
What is wrong with you man? The bolded part is quite possibly the scummiest paragraph I’ve ever read on these forums. Are you really so desperate to try and prove to an online forum what a moral beacon you are that you resort to that? I mean, of course you’re mates with someone who runs a non profit on this issue, I wouldn’t expect any less.

The cold hard fact is though, your stance on this is absolutely terrifying, lobbying for a society in which due process is just thrown out of the window and an accused person is considered guilty and punishment begins immediately before being proven otherwise.
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Doesn't seem like you read the way the comment was even phrased. It's being used to invalidate a position very generally and broadly.
 
Mickeza said:
The whole thing is bonkers and proves precisely why this stuff shouldn’t be played out in the press. The fact it is being sensationalised into headlines based on translations from Brazilian and Portuguese media make it very difficult to understand what’s going on.
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It certainly seems like important parts of the story are being left out or exaggerated by most english speaking outlets.
 
Ted Lasso said:
I genuinely don't understand your commentary. A former partner has accused him of DV and shared photos of some of her injuries. A doctor in Manchester has had to tend to her injuries in a hotel. Antony himself says he was there when dishes and glasses broke.

Let's ignore Antony's state - he is awaiting more information about potential charges and if he needs them.

I'm curious to know why you as a survivor of DV openly tell this woman is dragging Antony through the dirt rather than being sympathetic to what is factually some sort of physical trauma she has endured and whatever emotional pain that has led her to make an accusation that is putting her in the firing line of super fans?

I am friends with someone that runs a non profit to help women escape abusive relationships and this subject is one that they constantly battle. It's why reporting DV is so low - for some glorified ideology of innocence and incorrectly inflating the false accusations, people sacrifice the actual victims here.

I'm also extremely put off by the way you're cheaply weaponizing your trauma to belittle cold hard facts I spent time pulling out of respect for the dialogue.

And I'm sorry to know you suffered like that. Hopefully you've left the situation and are in a good place.
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Thanks for letting us know that you are sorry for her to have suffered like that. AFTER writing she is „cheaply weaponizing her trauma“. Wow, that is just disgusting. Like, really disgusting. Do you even think about the impact of your words? Because it doesn‘t seem so. But yeah, i guess you are a man who speaks for women, in their best interest, of course. Just what they want, or?
 
PaulScholes99 said:
Thanks for letting us know that you are sorry for her to have suffered like that. AFTER writing she is „cheaply weaponizing her trauma“. Wow, that is just disgusting. Like, really disgusting. Do you even think about the impact of your words? Because it doesn‘t seem so. But yeah, i guess you are a man who speaks for women, in their best interest, of course. Just what they want, or?
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Give him a break, he knows better than Scarlett, his mate runs a non-profit after all.

If anyone was ever desperate for online validation it’s this fella, since the first day he arrived here.
 
Scarlett Dracarys said:
I'm weaponizing my trauma because I don't think a person should be treated like a criminal unless it's proven?
I tolerate a lot of shit on this forum but I'm not going to tolerate anyone saying I'm weaponizing my trauma to make a valid point that he's not guilty until its proven.
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Listen, saw the other comments first on this and those not part of our discussion are skewing it very very very differently than how I'm thinking. So to make sure nothing is lost in my choice of words I want to first and foremost ensure you that I do not mean to belittle or take away anything about what you went through. I'm sincerely sorry if that is at all what has happened.

If it's still of interest, my objection is that the way, timing and context you've brought up your history and then what you say right after are, in my opinion not appropriate. Firstly, it feels very strongly like you are saying that I believe all men are presumed guilty. That is not the case and unfair to say. I've said there's some in between gray area when an accused is in limbo the same way the accusor is in limbo waiting for details and truths to emerge. And for both people in this situation how can an outsider take any one side fairly? For you to drop your personal history with no detail but in the context made it seem like you were saying that it invalidates everything I'm saying and also experienced on my own.

If you want to continue this discussion I would prefer to do it over private messages. For the forum, publicly I am just going to leave it at this -

I am sorry for the way I replied to your last comment.
 
Denis79 said:
So 2 more women have come forward confirming violent behaviour?
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Claiming would be a better word than Confirming, surely?
From the litte I gathered, Portuguese-speaking posters around here are saying that the initial reports of those incidents are not clear enough in their original form in the Brazilian media,

and much less so in the way the English media seems to have taken whatever it wanted from them.

The only certain thing for now is that he's been accused by 2 more women. One more accusation by a woman who says he got aggressive with her (to what capacity is unknown), and the other accusation is about a girl being attacked to some degree in Antony's car while he was driving and there were more passengers there. It is unclear who did what.

2 accusations are rather similar, the 3rd is more obscure and involves more people.

It sounds like I'm defending him when I'm not trying to.
I don't know what happened. Just trying to show it's a big mess at the moment, and conclusions are very hard to draw.
 
Ted Lasso said:
I genuinely don't understand your commentary. A former partner has accused him of DV and shared photos of some of her injuries. A doctor in Manchester has had to tend to her injuries in a hotel. Antony himself says he was there when dishes and glasses broke.

Let's ignore Antony's state - he is awaiting more information about potential charges and if he needs them.

I'm curious to know why you as a survivor of DV openly tell this woman is dragging Antony through the dirt rather than being sympathetic to what is factually some sort of physical trauma she has endured and whatever emotional pain that has led her to make an accusation that is putting her in the firing line of super fans?

I am friends with someone that runs a non profit to help women escape abusive relationships and this subject is one that they constantly battle. It's why reporting DV is so low - for some glorified ideology of innocence and incorrectly inflating the false accusations, people sacrifice the actual victims here.

I'm also extremely put off by the way you're cheaply weaponizing your trauma to belittle cold hard facts I spent time pulling out of respect for the dialogue.

And I'm sorry to know you suffered like that. Hopefully you've left the situation and are in a good place.
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There is something extremely creepy about this post.
 
Laurencio said:
He can't.

Suspensions are governed by PL employment contracts. He can only be suspended if an internal investigation finds him likely to have breached the terms of his employment - the disrepute clause for instance, or if he's in violation of some other terms covered in it - criminal proceedings are covered I believe.

Either way he can't be suspended without an investigation. Doesn't matter what I think.
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He’ll be on a ‘mutual leave of absence’
 
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