[Valencia Shin Crosses]

When he gets into space, then stops, turns back, I feel sad.

Probably my least favorite part of his game, and it's mainly due to him having 0 confidence to dribble on his outer foot

 

[Castia]

He's a bit hit and miss but outside of Rashford he's been our best attacker this season

Comfortably our best player on Sunday as well strange to sub him

 

[ScholesyTheWise]

Stop making stuff up

What's made up about it? that might be his only strength, relatively speaking.
I didn't say he defends like Nesta.

 

[Sancho99]

The only player that actually showed any intensity and aggression in his play. If even 3/4 more individuals had done so we might have had more of a chance.

How can you win a game when so many of your players are off it?!

 

[Cassidy]

What's made up about it? that might be his only strength, relatively speaking.
I didn't say he defends like Nesta.

He has 7 goals and you're saying his best attribute is defending, I'll exit this conversation here

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Because we are talking about a winger here not a full back, weghorst is shite enough without having zero supply

Yeah we are talking about a winger so let’s just make up stuff and spout nonsense

 

[acnumber9]

Is this sarcasm? He was giving Burn real problems on the right.

But what did any of it lead to? He created nothing and had one back pass on target. He beat Burn only to turn back and play a backwards pass. He’s zero threat 99% of the time.

 

[Cassidy]

But what did any of it lead to? He created nothing and had one back pass on target. He beat Burn only to turn back and play a backwards pass. He’s zero threat 99% of the time.

Not true, he put Weghorst in who should have squared it to Rashford for a simple tap in, also put Dalot clean down the right who played a not so great ball in.
I get fans don't like a particular player, but there is no need to make things up

 

[acnumber9]

Not true, he put Weghorst in who should have squared it to Rashford for a simple tap in, also put Dalot clean down the right who played a not so great ball in.
I get fans don't like a particular player, but there is no need to make things up

When I talk about creating a chance I’m not talking about playing a pass to a player who then actually has to create the chance. Because that would be fecking insane. He’s in the 1st percentile for assists in the Premier League. That’s fecking abysmal by any standards.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Actually thought for Antony standards he was doing alright at the weekend and was surprised he was subbed but feck me, he needs to spend some time evaluating his game.

He does so many frustrating things. One of the most annoying is that he seems to be scared of the 18 yard line or it has a protective barrier around it that he is only allowed to enter when there is a blood moon and Venus and Jupiter are aligned.

Drive at the box and commit people getting yourself in a better position to spam finesse finish in to the top corner. Honestly if he who can’t be named comes back next season and Amad who both commit people and take up better positions I can see Antony struggiling.

The tools are there but for some reason there is just a mental block there that is stopping him from in my mind massively improving.

I am tempted to start referring to him as RB+shoot

 

[tomaldinho1]

Blaming the RB for his shit play is dumb. He's the one who actually sets the starting position of his full back. He hugs the touch line, so naturally the fullbacks going to occupy the inside channel. This is common sense.

They actually do move out, when he goes inside but he has no idea how to use an overlap because everyone knows as soon as he's anywhere the 16 yard box he wants to let off a wasteful/feeble shot into the far corner.

Look at the way Rashford and Shaw link up on the other hand. Rashford takes up the inside channel which naturally means Shaw has to take up the overlapping position. But they also switch it around. This all quite clearly by design.

He hugs the touchline in possession not out of it though. Issue he has re our full backs is he wants/needs someone who will bomb pay him on either side and drag a player with them. AWB doesn’t do this and Dalot tries but isn’t really dynamic enough and I think opposition players can track him relatively easily. If we had an RB at Shaw’s level Antony would get a lot more ball in space and better areas in my opinion.

He has his flaws and areas he needs to work on but we’ve got no real striker - I love Weggy’s effort but I think it’s arguable he is genuinely the worst starting striker in the PL in any team - and our midfield without Eriksen is pretty blunt.

 

[SirScholes]

Who said anything about the Premier League? My point was the accusation that he hasn't got an assist for United is false.

Some pretty low hanging fruit there for a one hundred million pound attacker

so far he’s cost us 100 million per assist

 

[SirScholes]

Yeah we are talking about a winger so let’s just make up stuff and spout nonsense

Or let’s speak the truth
He isn’t very good

 

[Skills]

He hugs the touchline in possession not out of it though. Issue he has re our full backs is he wants/needs someone who will bomb pay him on either side and drag a player with them. AWB doesn’t do this and Dalot tries but isn’t really dynamic enough and I think opposition players can track him relatively easily. If we had an RB at Shaw’s level Antony would get a lot more ball in space and better areas in my opinion.

He has his flaws and areas he needs to work on but we’ve got no real striker - I love Weggy’s effort but I think it’s arguable he is genuinely the worst starting striker in the PL in any team - and our midfield without Eriksen is pretty blunt.

That makes no sense. The position he occupies while we're in possession, is what's by the managers design for his team's shape. When we're out possession that depends on what he defensive assignment - i.e. who he's meant to press or mark, either the full back, CB or a midfielder. So naturally he could be anywhere across that side of the pitch.

 

[shabin_d_great]

Thought Newcastle was one of the best performances by Antony, based on his usual standards. he was one player who showed some commitment and really had a decent game. Taking him off allowed Burn to dominate us.
and i would be angry as well if substituted like a pre meditated in 60th min. Sancho did nothing..

 

[Pirlo'sBeard]

Horrible decision to take him off yesterday.

 

[Godfather]

Horrible decision to take him off yesterday.

He's the easy option. We seem to have some undroppables in the squad. Not sure I like it.

 

[El Jefe]

What do you measure creativity by?

The head coach we've appointed places emphasis on a certain method of play where he wants to exert zonal and positional control with the aim of playing vertical passes. And the current Man Utd isn't even Brighton on the ball, hence we struggle to 'create plays' from the first phase which would allow us to create plays as a collective unit. Creativity isn't only measured by making the final pass before a goal but rather creativity begins from the goalkeeper within the principles in question which have become the norm at Liverpool, Man City, Arsenal, Brighton etc.

Quality players within a system of play make the whole greater than the sum of it's parts. And it's important to attempt to understand who and where the problems lay with, which hinders us becoming a more proactive attacking team within the principles of play I've already explained in various posts since yesterday.

So it's not about me creating a niche role in my mind but rather some of you who refuse to acknowledge the real issues which hinder us in possession (and have done for sometime) where we play reactive football with the goalkeeper being a ever present in it all, which creates a style of play that is based on a transitional game rather than a more controlled method of play which has been seen at the likes of City and Liverpool in the last 5 years and currently Arsenal. Those teams have a build up phase, which starts from the keeper, hence they can player higher up the pitch, control possession and apply the press and counter press effectively.

Pick any stat that measures creativity and Antony scores poorly, expect carries.

What you seem to be missing is even if we get this ideal team to create this ideal version of ETH, it will have to be with better players than Antony. Arsenal play the vertical possession based football that pins opponents in their half and its successful because Saka is leading the charge offensively. You put Antony in that team and they'd be nowhere close to the title.

You mention the teams that play the style but theu all have better players than Antony which is my point.

What you seem to be missing is that we could play ETH brand of football and still be average it isn't a silver bullet, we saw this with LVG.

Anytime we start saying, we need player or position X, Y, Z to unlock someone we're entering the same traps that we did with Pogba and Sancho. In Antony’s case I don't even think he's underperforming like the other two I just think he has a very low top level which is a other way of saying he's just an okay player.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Some pretty low hanging fruit there for a one hundred million pound attacker

so far he’s cost us 100 million per assist

He has already scored more goals than Grealish managed to get all of last season. And Grealish had the added benefit of not needing to adjust to a new league. I can't imagine many City fans were getting this worked up about Grealish's G/A comparative to his 100m price tag, but if they were, then they'd look pretty foolish now.

A little patience wouldn't be a bad idea. A lot of good players take a season to acclimatise to a new league.

 

[tomaldinho1]

That makes no sense. The position he occupies while we're in possession, is what's by the managers design for his team's shape. When we're out possession that depends on what he defensive assignment - i.e. who he's meant to press or mark, either the full back, CB or a midfielder. So naturally he could be anywhere across that side of the pitch.

You said because he hugs the touchline his full back occupies the inside channel. That’s not a rule.

I’m not sure you meant to reply to me?

 

[lex talionis]

Woefulness spread like wildfire among the outfield players, but Antony was one of the least ineffective players against Newcastle. Perhaps harsh to take him off, but then again he was nowhere near possibly breaking down their left back.

 

[Adnan]

Pick any stat that measures creativity and Antony scores poorly, expect carries.

What you seem to be missing is even if we get this ideal team to create this ideal version of ETH, it will have to be with better players than Antony. Arsenal play the vertical possession based football that pins opponents in their half and its successful because Saka is leading the charge offensively. You put Antony in that team and they'd be nowhere close to the title.

You mention the teams that play the style but theu all have better players than Antony which is my point.

What you seem to be missing is that we could play ETH brand of football and still be average it isn't a silver bullet, we saw this with LVG.

Anytime we start saying, we need player or position X, Y, Z to unlock someone we're entering the same traps that we did with Pogba and Sancho. In Antony’s case I don't even think he's underperforming like the other two I just think he has a very low top level which is a other way of saying he's just an okay player.

You don't measure creativity within the principles in question by looking at players individually but rather you measure creativity within a collective dynamic. And if that collective dynamic isn't functioning to the requisite level from the back it will hinder the team as a whole, and not just one player. It's why for a decade we have been unable to create a proactive attacking play style but have created a reactive play style, which suits a select few, but will not correlate towards the team transitioning into a proactive attacking team hence it doesn't really matter how many goals, assists or saves certain players rack up.

Arsenal play proactive attacking football because they're setup from back to front to play that way, where the players in the first first phase are adept are progressing the play through the thirds. That then means they can compress the pitch in a compact high block with numerous players creating overloads by flooding the opponent's defensive third with triangles/rondos opening up all across the final third which then provides a platform for Arsenal's attackers to create in possession and apply the press off the ball due to the players on the half way line controlling the defensive transitions in rest defense and their keeper being adept at sweeping and playing the ball with his feet.

LVG didn't implement vertical positional play and his teams didn't even look to press high. The likes of ten Hag, Guardiola, Luis Enrique are polar opposites in their implementation when it comes to applying the method which is far riskier and more difficult to coach.

We don't need to sign players to unlock anyone. We need to sign players to unlock a play style which will enable us to impose our playstyle on the opposition. We haven't been able to do that for 10 years and it's time we focused on the real problems.

The clip below is from Newcastle player Jacob Murphy. And he clearly says that he sensed they were going to have a good game due to how slow De Gea was in the build up phase which made their press more effective. And I keep repeating this over and over again. Spain's 7th choice keeper wouldn't even make Brighton's squad due to the play style they adopt.

 

[SirScholes]

He has already scored more goals than Grealish managed to get all of last season. And Grealish had the added benefit of not needing to adjust to a new league. I can't imagine many City fans were getting this worked up about Grealish's G/A comparative to his 100m price tag, but if they were, then they'd look pretty foolish now.

A little patience wouldn't be a bad idea. A lot of good players take a season to acclimatise to a new league.

I’m not exactly a jack grealish fan either mate they also got screwed over
But difference is grealish will try to make things happen, this passenger doesn’t

 

[Roux]

But what did any of it lead to? He created nothing and had one back pass on target. He beat Burn only to turn back and play a backwards pass. He’s zero threat 99% of the time.

It lead to chances for Weghorst and Dalot - the only real chances we had until we took him off. So when you say he created nothing - you're lying to yourself or just being a hater.

Silly decision to take him off for Sancho who was invisible.

 

[SirScholes]

You don't measure creativity within the principles in question by looking at players individually but rather you measure creativity within a collective dynamic. And if that collective dynamic isn't functioning to the requisite level from the back it will hinder the team as a whole, and not just one player. It's why for a decade we have been unable to create a proactive attacking play style but have created a reactive play style, which suits a select few, but will not correlate towards the team transitioning into a proactive attacking team hence it doesn't really matter how many goals, assists or saves certain players rack up.

Arsenal play proactive attacking football because they're setup from back to front to play that way, where the players in the first first phase are adept are progressing the play through the thirds. That then means they can compress the pitch in a compact high block with numerous players creating overloads by flooding the opponent's defensive third with triangles/rondos opening up all across the final third which then provides a platform for Arsenal's attackers to create in possession and apply the press off the ball due to the players on the half way line controlling the defensive transitions in rest defense and their keeper being adept at sweeping and playing the ball with his feet.

LVG didn't implement vertical positional play and his teams didn't even look to press high. The likes of ten Hag, Guardiola, Luis Enrique are polar opposites in their implementation when it comes to applying the method which is far riskier and more difficult to coach.

We don't need to sign players to unlock anyone. We need to sign players to unlock a play style which will enable us to impose our playstyle on the opposition. We haven't been able to do that for 10 years and it's time we focused on the real problems.

The clip below is from Newcastle player Jacob Murphy. And he clearly says that he sensed they were going to have a good game due to how slow De Gea was in the build up phase which made their press more effective. And I keep repeating this over and over again. Spain's 7th choice keeper wouldn't even make Brighton's squad due to the play style they adopt.

You talk a good game mate but can we just call a spade a spade here
He’s a tidy player but very limited and 100 million is beserk

 

[Adnan]

You talk a good game mate but can we just call a spade a spade here
He’s a tidy player but very limited and 100 million is beserk

You're entitled to your opinion on the player but you're going to carry on being disappointed due to the issues I've already outlined.

The best teams in the EPL are those teams who are best in the build up which starts from the back.

 

[acnumber9]

It lead to chances for Weghorst and Dalot - the only real chances we had until we took him off. So when you say he created nothing - you're lying to yourself or just being a hater.

Silly decision to take him off for Sancho who was invisible.

Playing a pass to a player who then has to create for somebody else isn’t creating chances. He has created zero big chances in the Premier League this season per their own stats. For reference, Wan Bissaka has one. There’s only one person lying to themselves here. He’s literally in the first percentile for assists in the Premier League and 11th percentile for expected assists. That’s fecking garbage.

 

[Jeffthered]

Hes a United player. He plays with desire and hunger. More than most of that squad.

If Antony is a Manchester United player, then we may as well forget it.

 

[Walrus]

People are praising his performance last night? Good Lord, how standards have fallen. Just because Sancho somehow managed to be even worse should not exclude Antony for another rubbish display.

The simple fact is that he is a £30m player. Ajax quoted us their “feck off” price that they never expected anyone to actually pay. You don’t pay the feck off price. We paid the feck off price and sure enough, it was a mistake.

 

[SirScholes]

You're entitled to your opinion on the player but you're going to carry on being disappointed due to the issues I've already outlined.

The best teams in the EPL are those teams who are best in the build up which starts from the back.

And who have attackers that contribute to goals and assist
He had plenty of the ball in good areas, whilst we played poorly we still managed to get the ball to him and his output wasn’t even bad, it was non existent
He isn’t why he lost, we lost because garnacho Eriksen Cas were missing and martial only just came back
Slow from the back because one of our midfielders shys from the ball
De gea isn’t great with the ball but I won’t have he was responsible for the appalling lack of creativity when the ball was at the other end of the pitch

 

[SirScholes]

People are praising his performance last night? Good Lord, how standards have fallen. Just because Sancho somehow managed to be even worse should not exclude Antony for another rubbish display.

The simple fact is that he is a £30m player. Ajax quoted us their “feck off” price that they never expected anyone to actually pay. You don’t pay the feck off price. We paid the feck off price and sure enough, it was a mistake.

Mad isn’t it
I understand bias towards our players but Christ alive he never looks like wanting to create anything

 

[El Jefe]

You don't measure creativity within the principles in question by looking at players individually but rather you measure creativity within a collective dynamic. And if that collective dynamic isn't functioning to the requisite level from the back it will hinder the team as a whole, and not just one player. It's why for a decade we have been unable to create a proactive attacking play style but have created a reactive play style, which suits a select few, but will not correlate towards the team transitioning into a proactive attacking team hence it doesn't really matter how many goals, assists or saves certain players rack up.

Arsenal play proactive attacking football because they're setup from back to front to play that way, where the players in the first first phase are adept are progressing the play through the thirds. That then means they can compress the pitch in a compact high block with numerous players creating overloads by flooding the opponent's defensive third with triangles/rondos opening up all across the final third which then provides a platform for Arsenal's attackers to create in possession and apply the press off the ball due to the players on the half way line controlling the defensive transitions in rest defense and their keeper being adept at sweeping and playing the ball with his feet.

LVG didn't implement vertical positional play and his teams didn't even look to press high. The likes of ten Hag, Guardiola, Luis Enrique are polar opposites in their implementation when it comes to applying the method which is far riskier and more difficult to coach.

We don't need to sign players to unlock anyone. We need to sign players to unlock a play style which will enable us to impose our playstyle on the opposition. We haven't been able to do that for 10 years and it's time we focused on the real problems.

The clip below is from Newcastle player Jacob Murphy. And he clearly says that he sensed they were going to have a good game due to how slow De Gea was in the build up phase which made their press more effective. And I keep repeating this over and over again. Spain's 7th choice keeper wouldn't even make Brighton's squad due to the play style they adopt.

Respectfully, this just reads like some pseudo intellectual stuff. The bit in bold especially, football is a simple game and creativity is one of the easiest things to spot. Fbref has a bunch of creativity stats which Antony ranks poorly in but according to you I'm supposed to ignore this and blame everyone else for Antony being unable to cross a ball or feck up simple chances.

You typed all this but didn't answer comment on my assertion on whether Arsenal will be close to a title challenge with Antony in their team instead of Saka.

Of course the side will be better one ETH principles are fully adopted but that will still rely on us having creative players. He could get away with it at Ajax having a supporting trio of Antony, Tadic and Berghuis, in the PL you need top quality players to open up teams.

You talk a good game mate but can we just call a spade a spade here
He’s a tidy player but very limited and 100 million is beserk

In short, this!

 

[sullydnl]

He obviously hasn't been good enough this season. Statistically (and in line with the eye test, I think) the only thing you can really say he's been very good at is carrying the ball forward and not giving it away under possession, making him a useful outball when we're under pressure. That and working hard defensively. But that obviously isn't near enough.

However, even aside from the general hope that a player will improve in their second season at the club, I think it's fair to argue that improvements elsewhere in the team are particularly likely to benefit him. Partly because he's obviously better suited to a possession-heavier style of football we'll hopefully shift towards as we bring in players better able to execute it. And partly because a player as obviously one-footed as him is almost by definition more likely to be a system player who depends on others to offset his weaknesses and complement his strengths.

And the good news for Antony is that this summer we're reportedly quite likely to strengthen the two positions that would most benefit him, CF and RB. So I'd be more inclined to make longer-term judgements of him next season. Because if we improve in those two areas then we should quickly see an improvement if we're going to see an improvement at all.

 

[Jev]

It's absolutely true that most players, including Antony, will look better with better players surrounding them. The problem with that argument is that on the evidence of this season, he should be one of the first, arguably the first, starting players we should look to improve upon.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It's absolutely true that most players, including Antony, will look better with better players surrounding them. The problem with that argument is that on the evidence of this season, he should be one of the first, arguably the first, starting players we should look to improve upon.

Come on. No way. He’d actually be quite near the bottom of the list. Definitely someone you would watch and think there’s more to come next season. Which you can say about precious few members of our squad.

 

[DevTheRed]

One thing I’ve been surprised by is his crossing ability.. nowhere near good enough for a player of his quality. If he can work on that it certainly adds another dimension to him.

 

[lsd]

I seriously don't get the agenda against this guy.
Not his fault he cost £85m.
I thought he was the only player yesterday with some energy and desire.
We are absolutely a better team with Antony in there.

Based on him rarely creating anything not being able to cross and mostly slowing us down as he only has one foot?

 

[lsd]

One thing I’ve been surprised by is his crossing ability.. nowhere near good enough for a player of his quality. If he can work on that it certainly adds another dimension to him.

Its shocking isn't it? Even on his good foot he has been so poor at it.

 

[Jev]

Come on. No way. He’d actually be quite near the bottom of the list. Definitely someone you would watch and think there’s more to come next season. Which you can say about precious few members of our squad.

I think it'd be hard to argue he'd be ahead of any one of Rashford, Casemiro, Shaw, Varane, Bruno, Martinez and Eriksen. That leaves DDG, who's saved us several times this season, Dalot/AWB and Martial. I'd have him above the latter due to Martial's lack of availability. Probably also ahead of our right backs.

 

[Adnan]

Respectfully, this just reads like some pseudo intellectual stuff. The bit in bold especially, football is a simple game and creativity is one of the easiest things to spot. Fbref has a bunch of creativity stats which Antony ranks poorly in but according to you I'm supposed to ignore this and blame everyone else for Antony being unable to cross a ball or feck up simple chances.

You typed all this but didn't answer comment on my assertion on whether Arsenal will be close to a title challenge with Antony in their team instead of Saka.

Of course the side will be better one ETH principles are fully adopted but that will still rely on us having creative players. He could get away with it at Ajax having a supporting trio of Antony, Tadic and Berghuis, in the PL you need top quality players to open up teams.

In short, this!

I'm not asking you to ignore anything but rather I've asked you to attempt to understand why we struggle to build play from the back, which is a huge hindrance towards being a proactive attacking team. And being weak in the build up phase will hinder the development of a cohesive attacking game plan which will show up on stats site that you mention. But it's important to understand what you're applying the statistics towards before coming to a conclusion on any player occupying the middle and final thirds due to the dysfunction caused at the back.

Arsenal are close to being a title winner due to their first phase players providing a high level platform for their players to thrive. The likes of Ramsdale, Partey, Saliba, Zinchenko etc not only provide the requisite technical quality to progress play through the thirds, they also help with keeping a compact block high up the pitch where they control the space in-behind with Ramsdale assisting with his sweeping actions which allows the likes of Saka and Odegaard and the rest to overload the opponent's defensive third and it also makes the press more effective due the players at the back being near or over the half way line with the keeper holding a high position to sweep. Without creating a strong build up phase, Arsenal wouldn't be challenging for the league.

Antony I can see playing a role in such a setup because there would be link up and combination play potential aplenty which suits him. But some of our other players in the first phase wouldn't even get into their team and neither would Arteta want to hinder his play style by having the likes of De Gea.