[HookedOnAPhelan]

I mean even their styles are totally different. Nani was good with both feet was far quicker and had a far better shot in him

Yet his goals-to-games ratio during his time here was lower than it is for the wasteful Antony so far. In fact, according to the Premier League website Nani had a (significantly) lower shooting accuracy (percentage of shots on target) in every single one of his seasons at the club than Antony has for us this season. And Nani also shot a lot. Nani did score a few screamers, but Antony has that in his locker too as we've seen against City, Charlton and Betis.

And while Nani's assist numbers were obviously much, much better than Antony's so far, I'd say the difference in what he had to work with up top and what Antony has to work with is quite stark, to say the least. And there's a world of difference in the circumstances of their transfers: Nani joined the best team in the country, a well-oiled machine of a team with mentally strong top class players in almost every position, and he was matched carefully in the beginning, being given time to adapt to the team, the league and the country, while Antony joined a dysfunctional clusterfeck and didn't even get a pre-season in his first season here.

Nani was a brilliant player for us at his best, but there's a lot of selective memory going on about his time at the club.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

a) We paid well over the odds for him. Nobody disagrees with that. All that matters now is whether he might improve us as a team.

It's relevant though, isn't it? In theory, the transfer fee paid shouldn't influence when or how often a player is played, but in practice we know that's not how it works.

 

[redcucumber]

completely false. There are more than one way to skin a cat. The Pep influence strikes again! The most dispossessions Nani had in a single season was 2.4 pg (often below 2pg), combined with average 80% pass completion. In Salah 1st 2 seasons he was dispossessed 2.6 pg with a 76% pass completion yet is one of the best in the world. Salah has never had above 80% pass completion. Kane has a 72% pass rate. Dunno how they survive in this modern era tbh

Wow, that's quite enlightening. In my head Nani was a player that would give the ball away and was generally quite frustrating but the numbers you've provided don't support that. I was a teen during his time here so I'm using that as my excuse.

There is of course space for players that are less protective in possession - I meant to say I don't think Nani would be favoured by ten Hag (when I thought he was unreliable with the ball). One of the key reasons why ten Hag values Antony is undoubtedly because he's key to recycling possession.

 

[Chief123]

I think Antony will come good.

But the fact that he’s likely to be the most successful signing out of our top 5 most expensive signings ever is a damning indictment on how terrible our spending has been in recent years. Pogba, Maguire, Sancho, Lukaku and Antony have cost us over £400m just in transfer fees!

 

[Stacks]

Wow, that's quite enlightening. In my head Nani was a player that would give the ball away and was generally quite frustrating but the numbers you've provided don't support that. I was a teen during his time here so I'm using that as my excuse.

There is of course space for players that are less protective in possession - I meant to say I don't think Nani would be favoured by ten Hag (when I thought he was unreliable with the ball). One of the key reasons why ten Hag values Antony is undoubtedly because he's key to recycling possession.

I only showed premier league stats mind and I too was surprised

 

[PSV]

I think Antony will come good.

But the fact that he’s likely to be the most successful signing out of our top 5 most expensive signings ever is a damning indictment on how terrible our spending has been in recent years. Pogba, Maguire, Sancho, Lukaku and Antony have cost us over £400m just in transfer fees!

"Likely" borders between courageous and delusion. Nevertheless, quite the job to do then, I'd put him tied 4th out of those so far (tied with Sancho).

 

[Bondi77]

I mean even their styles are totally different. Nani was good with both feet was far quicker and had a far better shot in him

Nani had one of the best techniques I have seen at Utd but while he had serious power in his right foot his shooting was a bit erratic.

 

[KikiDaKats]

@HookedOnAPhelan we bought a teenager in Nani and an apt comparison to Nani will be Amad.
Antony was brought in to be a starter and add to this current team. He is not delivered to the expectations of a premium or solution signing yet. He has to evaluate his own contributions to this team and if he thinks it’s good enough, fair enough. It just has to be remembered he is not brought in as a developmental player or backup nor is he paid as one.

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

@HookedOnAPhelan we bought a teenager in Nani and an apt comparison to Nani will be Amad.
Antony was brought in to be a starter and add to this current team. He is not delivered to the expectations of a premium or solution signing yet. He has to evaluate his own contributions to this team and if he thinks it’s good enough, fair enough. It just has to be remembered he is not brought in as a developmental player or backup nor is he paid as one.

Nani was a few months from turning 21 when we bought him. A simple google search would've told you that.

 

[KikiDaKats]

Nani was a few months from turning 21 when we bought him. A simple google search would've told you that.

I’ll take your word for it. I swear I’ve always thought him to be a teenager when he arrived. Don’t know why but it’s always been the case.
That’s a minor detail of but the point of development stays the same.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Nani is two footed, Antony is one footed.
Nani is better finisher, better dribbler, better crosser, has more skills in his locker, much quicker, and already more proven in beating EPL defenders than Antony.
The only same thing between them is both likes to do skills which sometime can be frustrated as the skills could lead into loosing possession. That's it.
And the only thing Antony has more than Nani is his aggressiveness and also probably his passing but not by much (sometime Nani's passing is bit meh, he tends to give the ball away with easy pass).

May be Antony can have better career than Nani if Antony can stay away from injury which will help his development because Nani got injured a lot.

 

[johnnyteutonic]

Wow, I've forgotten how damn Nani good was with his technique and dribbling.
All I remember from him, like many posters have said on this thread is that he was a frustrating, inconsistent player that would often make a lot of silly decisions in the final 3rd.

But watching that video and comparing the two, what strikes me about Nani is that he has good core strength and balance which means he's very hard to knock off the ball,
a bit like Kvaratskhelia at Napoli, and obviously along with that great balance and technique, he is genuinely two-footed.

Maybe Antony needs to work on his core strength but I don't know if he will ever be as balanced as Nani was?

When I watch Antony play I just see someone who has all his strength, which isn't much, weighted to his left side, which makes him very unbalanced. He's actually reasonably fast across 5-10 yards but given how one-footed he is, he rarely is able to capitalise on it, but he has improved a bit in recent times in going on the outside.

When I watch Saka play, he also has really good core strength and balance like Nani has but whilst I don't think he has the same technical level that Nani had, he already has much better decision-making, vision and finishing.

 

[Skills]

Nani is two footed, Antony is one footed.
Nani is better finisher, better dribbler, better crosser, has more skills in his locker, much quicker, and already more proven in beating EPL defenders than Antony.
The only same thing between them is both likes to do skills which sometime can be frustrated as the skills could lead into loosing possession. That's it.
And the only thing Antony has more than Nani is his aggressiveness and also probably his passing but not by much (sometime Nani's passing is bit meh, he tends to give the ball away with easy pass).

May be Antony can have better career than Nani if Antony can stay away from injury which will help his development because Nani got injured a lot.

What skills does Antony do apart from that little ball roll? He hasn't even got a convincing step over.

 

[Borys]

Wow, that's quite enlightening. In my head Nani was a player that would give the ball away and was generally quite frustrating but the numbers you've provided don't support that. I was a teen during his time here so I'm using that as my excuse.

There is of course space for players that are less protective in possession - I meant to say I don't think Nani would be favoured by ten Hag (when I thought he was unreliable with the ball). One of the key reasons why ten Hag values Antony is undoubtedly because he's key to recycling possession.

Nani was extremely frustrating player in terms of the choices he made, BUT he was also put in the team to attack. I don't think this "player keeping width and recycling possession" was a thing back then. Nani was pretty bad at this tbh, I always thought he didn't know how to play the "slow game" - similar to Rashford and Garnacho now.
I am pretty sure Antony wouldn't be considered as a winger for SAF, because he is good at this stuff but not an attacking threat.

Attacking players like Rashford, Bruno, KdB, Nani etc are encouraged to take risks. Antony is not asked to do that, it's pretty clear to me he also doesn't have the tools to really hurt the opposition. I thought his shooting is really good but at the moment he's doing really bad on this over the course of the season.

 

[VivaObertan]

I’ll take your word for it. I swear I’ve always thought him to be a teenager when he arrived. Don’t know why but it’s always been the case.
That’s a minor detail of but the point of development stays the same.

It's not a minor detail though, they were bought at around the same age. Imagine Nani came into the squad WITHOUT Giggs, Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez... no Neville or Brown to support from full back, and was expected to play 40+ games AND lead the attack in his first season.

He's gonna keep improving in line with the rest of the squad. We buy Kane and Frimpong, Antony will hit another level.

 

[Guapa]

Got all the potential for sure but needs to improve his decision making big time.I expect to see a much better player next season with him or I'll be worried.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

He is on the brink of become excellent. Like Vinicius Jr 2 seasons ago. At so.e point in the next 6 months his left footed shots will consistently go in instead of hit the post or go narrowly wide and he will have the self belief to beat defenders with ease like he did at Ajax. He will also link up better with his team mates in the 18.

 

[Stacks]

It's not a minor detail though, they were bought at around the same age. Imagine Nani came into the squad WITHOUT Giggs, Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez... no Neville or Brown to support from full back, and was expected to play 40+ games AND lead the attack in his first season.

He's gonna keep improving in line with the rest of the squad. We buy Kane and Frimpong, Antony will hit another level.

You act like Nani was only effective because of teammates but if you watch the video clip it was a lot of solo action and 1v1's or even him vs 2 players.. eg. watch the goal and assist on 3:35 when he scored a screamer or when he chopped 2 defenders, took on another and then teed up a tap in for forward.

 

[Bondi77]

Got all the potential for sure but needs to improve his decision making big time.I expect to see a much better player next season with him or I'll be worried.

What do you mean when you say he definitely has potential?
I look at a young player and if he does hard things naturally and does most things in football well but is inconsistent then I define that as potential.
I do not see that in Antony.

 

[VivaObertan]

You act like Nani was only effective because of teammates but if you watch the video clip it was a lot of solo action and 1v1's or even him vs 2 players.. eg. watch the goal and assist on 3:35 when he scored a screamer or when he chopped 2 defenders, took on another and then teed up a tap in for forward.

I loved Nani but playing as the 4th choice winger in your debut season for the best team in the world is totally different to playing as the only right winger in a big club with a tonne of scrutiny and struggling for consistency.

 

[KikiDaKats]

It's not a minor detail though, they were bought at around the same age. Imagine Nani came into the squad WITHOUT Giggs, Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez... no Neville or Brown to support from full back, and was expected to play 40+ games AND lead the attack in his first season.

He's gonna keep improving in line with the rest of the squad. We buy Kane and Frimpong, Antony will hit another level.

The minor detail was about me misrepresenting the age of Nani at the time of his transfer.

Nani transfer wasn’t to come in and solve a problem, which is a reflection of the depth in squad at the time and the expectation was for him to develop into a major role in time.

Whilst Antony came in to solve a pressing issue and be a key member of this team. One can say the responsibility/expectation is unfair for one so young but he has to deliver because he knew what he signed up for.

Fans are expected to afford him the same patience as Nani or a younger Amad. It’s unfair to ask fans to lower expectations on a player that’s being paid premium wages like Sancho and they are both not delivering what’s expected.

I like his tenacity and respect him as an athlete because he looks resilient but his true ability is questionable or underwhelming for his expected role in the team.

 

[Chief123]

"Likely" borders between courageous and delusion. Nevertheless, quite the job to do then, I'd put him tied 4th out of those so far (tied with Sancho).

I’m not sure it’s courageous or delusional saying he will likely be more successful than 4 failed signings. Not much to beat.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

What skills does Antony do apart from that little ball roll? He hasn't even got a convincing step over.

I don’t know. I said Nani has more skilful on that post you replied.

 

[BusbyMalone]

Personally, I think he's been really good the last few weeks. He seems way more willing to take players on, appears a bit more confident in his ability, and has been unlucky with a few of his shots. You can be hyper-critical and say he should have hit the target with a few of them, but some of them have been missing the target by millimeters. Ok, he's had some where he's blasted it over, but it seems to me that he's finally finding his feet.

You can't ignore the fee. It's just the way it is. A player will always be judged on their price. But ultimately what you want to see is progress, and I think we're seeing it with him.

 

[Stacks]

The minor detail was about me misrepresenting the age of Nani at the time of his transfer.

Nani transfer wasn’t to come in and solve a problem, which is a reflection of the depth in squad at the time and the expectation was for him to develop into a major role in time.

Whilst Antony came in to solve a pressing issue and be a key member of this team. One can say the responsibility/expectation is unfair for one so young but he has to deliver because he knew what he signed up for.

Fans are expected to afford him the same patience as Nani or a younger Amad. It’s unfair to ask fans to lower expectations on a player that’s being paid premium wages like Sancho and they are both not delivering what’s expected.

I like his tenacity and respect him as an athlete because he looks resilient but his true ability is questionable or underwhelming for his expected role in the team.

Nani had played 76 1st team games when he transferred so was inexperienced and as you said, bought to develop, into a position we already had catered for. The mental gymnastics on here are crazy. next we will be hearing Sancho was bought for the academy so we gotta give him 5 years

 

[Member 117152]

Yet his goals-to-games ratio during his time here was lower than it is for the wasteful Antony so far. In fact, according to the Premier League website Nani had a (significantly) lower shooting accuracy (percentage of shots on target) in every single one of his seasons at the club than Antony has for us this season. And Nani also shot a lot. Nani did score a few screamers, but Antony has that in his locker too as we've seen against City, Charlton and Betis.

And while Nani's assist numbers were obviously much, much better than Antony's so far, I'd say the difference in what he had to work with up top and what Antony has to work with is quite stark, to say the least. And there's a world of difference in the circumstances of their transfers: Nani joined the best team in the country, a well-oiled machine of a team with mentally strong top class players in almost every position, and he was matched carefully in the beginning, being given time to adapt to the team, the league and the country, while Antony joined a dysfunctional clusterfeck and didn't even get a pre-season in his first season here.

Nani was a brilliant player for us at his best, but there's a lot of selective memory going on about his time at the club.

I never rated Nani personally much. He was nowhere near world class for us or Portugal at any point.

He had like one good season I remember and even then he wasn’t exactly Rashford this season at his best performance wise.

He just wasn’t that good. Im amazed some fans have rose tinted vision with Nani. He was a frustrating player.

 

[Stacks]

I never rated Nani personally much. He was nowhere near world class for us or Portugal at any point.

He had like one good season I remember and even then he wasn’t exactly Rashford this season at his best performance wise.

He just wasn’t that good. Im amazed some fans have rose tinted vision with Nani. He was a frustrating player.

Nani made the premier league team of the season that season and won United player of the season. Rashford has won neither.

from 2010-12 he delivered 75 G+A in 123 appearances (contribution every 1.64 games) which is better than most wide players in the league today. current wide players must be awful as many are contributing every 3-4 games including ours!

 

[Nou_Camp99]

1 PL goal and 1 PL assist since September.

Can't begin to describe how shocking that record is. It's almost impressive how ineffective he is given he sees a good chunk of the ball each game. It's not like he doesn't get a pass.

If Rashford is injured this weekend we are in big big trouble

 

[flappyjay]

1 PL goal and 1 PL assist since September.

Can't begin to describe how shocking that record is. It's almost impressive how ineffective he is given he sees a good chunk of the ball each game. It's not like he doesn't get a pass.

If Rashford is injured this weekend we are in big big trouble

That stat is embarrassing. How Pellestri continues to not get cameos is a concern .

 

[Nou_Camp99]

That stat is embarrassing. How Pellestri continues to not get cameos is a concern .

When you spend 85m + on a player you kinda have to play him so I get why.

Could well be ETH's Maguire signing this though unless he massively improves.

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

Or maybe Pellistri just isn't very good, or isn't putting in enough effort in training.

It's interesting watching his Ajax highlights though. He's clearly capable of delivering excellent crosses into the box, but it helps to have an actual striker to aim them at. And while obviously very left footed, he uses his right foot well on a few occasions, I don't know why he doesn't trust it more.

I expect him to be much more productive next season. If not I'll start getting concerned.

 

[Abraxas]

He is on the brink of become excellent. Like Vinicius Jr 2 seasons ago. At so.e point in the next 6 months his left footed shots will consistently go in instead of hit the post or go narrowly wide and he will have the self belief to beat defenders with ease like he did at Ajax. He will also link up better with his team mates in the 18.

There seem to be quite a few differences though. Vinicius was 20 a few seasons ago, Antony is 23. He needs to adjust to the quality of league and the club of course, but his ability should be relatively clear at that age. I'm not sure his ability is in the same ballpark in terms of athleticism and technical skill so it seems to rely more on optimism that all these shots will go in and he'll suddenly breeze past people. What's that really based on except hope? Maybe the shots will go in at the same ratio and he'll continue rarely attacking players directly.

I think he should naturally improve a bit, he's still relatively young and new to the club, but I'm not sure incredible ability is there overall. Hopefully you're right...

 

[skc_18]

Wow .. having read the above posts comparing Nani and Antony, I just realized how similar both players are ..

Nani at the start of his career at United was annoying, he had odd shot to goal but was always trying to dribble and giving away possession , not passing to players even when they are in better position. For some reason, he believed he is class above(probably looking at Ronaldo). I see the exact behavior from Antony in United shirt in terms of behavior that he is class above.

Its not until few seasons later his singing, Nani became more of a team player and we all had good memories of that Nani. Hope Antony will do that in coming seasons.

 

[johnnyteutonic]

I never rated Nani personally much. He was nowhere near world class for us or Portugal at any point.

He had like one good season I remember and even then he wasn’t exactly Rashford this season at his best performance wise.

He just wasn’t that good. Im amazed some fans have rose tinted vision with Nani. He was a frustrating player.

Likewise, I didn't rate him that much either at the time. In fact, I honestly forgot more or less about him until it was announced last season that he would be playing for a club in my city.

But in all honesty, it just seems like standards have dropped so much that even a player like Nani, who was nowhere near one of our best players except perhaps for one season, is definitely seen as a better player than Antony. I don't think it's purely 'rose-tinted glasses', more just people realising that he was a simply a better player than Antony has shown so far.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

I never rated Nani personally much. He was nowhere near world class for us or Portugal at any point.

He had like one good season I remember and even then he wasn’t exactly Rashford this season at his best performance wise.

He just wasn’t that good. Im amazed some fans have rose tinted vision with Nani. He was a frustrating player.

* sigh *

 

[Stacks]

1 PL goal and 1 PL assist since September.

Can't begin to describe how shocking that record is. It's almost impressive how ineffective he is given he sees a good chunk of the ball each game. It's not like he doesn't get a pass.

If Rashford is injured this weekend we are in big big trouble

That's 8 months virtually a whole season. Even with injuries you can match that in 1 match if you a semi decent player. What is he doing, what is his role? An Auxiliary FB,,?

 

[Matt851]

There seem to be quite a few differences though. Vinicius was 20 a few seasons ago, Antony is 23. He needs to adjust to the quality of league and the club of course, but his ability should be relatively clear at that age. I'm not sure his ability is in the same ballpark in terms of athleticism and technical skill so it seems to rely more on optimism that all these shots will go in and he'll suddenly breeze past people. What's that really based on except hope? Maybe the shots will go in at the same ratio and he'll continue rarely attacking players directly.

I think he should naturally improve a bit, he's still relatively young and new to the club, but I'm not sure incredible ability is there overall. Hopefully you're right...

The comparison is nonsense, the only similarity between the two is their Nationality. The comparisons to nani are also ridiculous

It's people desperately clutching at straws in the hope he has some hidden potential and will one day become good enough

Even when vinicius was younger he could go past players for fun due to his pace and skill but had unpredictable end product. Antony has the inconsistent end product (or consistently poor end product) but has none of the plus points. Even people who seem desperate to defend him can only seem to cite his work rate and ability to offer width as his strengths

 

[MadDogg]

I never rated Nani personally much. He was nowhere near world class for us or Portugal at any point.

He had like one good season I remember and even then he wasn’t exactly Rashford this season at his best performance wise.

He just wasn’t that good. Im amazed some fans have rose tinted vision with Nani. He was a frustrating player.

Nani's 10/11 season was much better than Rashford has been this season. He was our best player and should have been the PL player of the season.

He was certainly inconsistent overall (which I've always said wasn't helped by us playing him mostly on the left when he was always much more consistent on the right for us), but for that period he was absolutely fantastic.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

There seem to be quite a few differences though. Vinicius was 20 a few seasons ago, Antony is 23. He needs to adjust to the quality of league and the club of course, but his ability should be relatively clear at that age. I'm not sure his ability is in the same ballpark in terms of athleticism and technical skill so it seems to rely more on optimism that all these shots will go in and he'll suddenly breeze past people. What's that really based on except hope? Maybe the shots will go in at the same ratio and he'll continue rarely attacking players directly.
......

The problem is you mistakenly think I'm making a direct comparison of ability.
I'm not. In rather talking of being one step from everything a player is trying do clicking consistently. You see it in his crosses to the far post and his shooting. His shooting in particular he isn't missing by much most times. Last year was the start of that for Vincius. I believe given this is Anthony's first year in a top league. I reckon we should see the best of him next season.

Furthermore, unless people never watched Antony play at Ajax consistently the idea he can't actually beat let alone breeze past people is laughable. Currently he is still clearly getting used to the pace of the league and is playing within himself. Only showing glimpses of what he can do. He is miles better technically than many on here realise. I also fully expect the accuracy in his shooting to improve too. For he is just a 1-2% improvement from being lethal.

 

[Idxomer]

Frustrating and a bit unlucky but overall a very good performance.