Alongside RVP.
Antonio Valencia... | Will wear #25 shirt from this point onwards by request
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Alongside RVP.
I don't think we should even contemplate selling him this summer. Allow him the opportunity to find his form. He had a terrific couple of seasons and deserves it.
I can't believe some here are likening Valencia to Kanchelskis. Crazy stuff.
Kanchelskis shat on teams all over England in terms of all-round play and goalscoring ability. Even Valencia, in the height of his United career, could only dream about being as effective as Kanchelskis was.
In saying that, I am biased on this one as Kanchelskis is my all-time favourite United player. My father still holds it against me when I used to ask for his name on the back of my United shirts!
seriously mate. I don't understand what has happened to him. was he away injured for a period and was never the same after?
I like him...but Fergie will not be swayed by sentimentality.
will be an interesting summer.
In case you guys haven't noticed, Fergie does not 'keep playing' Valencia. We all wanted Nani to get a chance, and Valencia only played when Nani got injured. Young has just returned to fitness too.
He wasn't out for long and he's returned two weeks ago or something like that. He could easily have come on for Nani for 45 minutes.
Agreed, definite mental thing. It's obvious in his hesitation.
I do think with a player like Valencia that his class when he's on form comes mostly from his mental and physical strength more than his ability, so when you lose one of them you're going to lose a lot of the player. He does the things very well that you wonder why more footballers don't do -things like just hammering it down the wing at full pelt and twatting a cross at the guy in the box. Things that don't necessarily require a top class dribbling style, but do require decent footballing ability, excellent athleticism and that underrated ability to just see a gap and go for it. Valencia at his best is a top class winger, but when he loses that confidence he loses most of his game. 'Attacking the space' down the wing and having the initiative to just look for the ball and deal some damage with pace and confidence...there is more mental strength to this than skill.
If you're a player like this and you start thinking "what if I lose the ball", you're fecked. Not as fecked as a lot of players (he's obviously a good footballer), but confidence is hugely important for a player of Valencia's skill set and role. Compare him with someone like Nani or Kagawa (the latter admitting that he must improve his mental strength) and the issue becomes clear. He hasn't got as much to fall back on as other players and it shows.
Again, that's not a criticism. Valencia's limitations as a footballer are obvious but it doesn't detract from the player he has been when he's been on his game. He's a player that has and perhaps still will be capable of some completely monstrous performances down the wing and we'd benefit a lot having a player like that back.
I actually think most players attacking players on the team are going through something like what he is going through but that it just shows up more with a player of his type. Again, the Nani (especially in view of the player he was in 10/11) and Kagawa comparisons are good ones to make.
Does seem a bit crazy to compare Valencia with a winger who had a knack for goals
I agree its clearly something in Valencia's head. Although I dont think hes as fast as he was either. The problem I have with it is, he has no excuse whatsoever for having a mentality issue. No good one anyway
If you win player of the season, there is no way you should have even a small confidence issue the next season. Thats ridiculous. He should be flying knowing his peers and his manager rate him so highly.
The only thing that makes sense to me is that perhaps, having had a personally successful season last season, Valencia now thinks hes made it and doesnt have to work as hard. Thats not a nice way to look at it but it makes a lot more sense than anything else
I agree its clearly something in Valencia's head. Although I dont think hes as fast as he was either. The problem I have with it is, he has no excuse whatsoever for having a mentality issue. No good one anyway
If you win player of the season, there is no way you should have even a small confidence issue the next season. Thats ridiculous. He should be flying knowing his peers and his manager rate him so highly.
The only thing that makes sense to me is that perhaps, having had a personally successful season last season, Valencia now thinks hes made it and doesnt have to work as hard. Thats not a nice way to look at it but it makes a lot more sense than anything else
It definitely could've been a reason a couple of months ago but I highly doubt he's been playing poorly month after month and still feels like he doesn't have to work as hard. He's very easily frustrated this year which isn't something I remember happening much during any of his previous lulls so I reckon there's some stuff outside of football affecting him.
I liked how when Chelsea re-adjusted so they had three players penning him in all the time, none of our players bothered to react at all to the rather blatant switch, and just kept watching like a pack of complete Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime as Valencia had to try and beat three people on his own with zero support or out ball, while the crowd ripped him to shreds.
He isn't playing well at all, but it doesn't help when your team mates are being completely fecking useless and asking you to do the impossible.
We really do lack someone on the pitch who is able to actually engage their brain during the game. Carrick does but he's too much of a wimp to go around yelling at everyone.
He isn't playing well at all, but it doesn't help when your team mates are being completely fecking useless and asking you to do the impossible.
We really do lack someone on the pitch who is able to actually engage their brain during the game. Carrick does but he's too much of a wimp to go around yelling at everyone.
I think defenders have worked him out
Show him inside and he'll end up going backwards
He did have one or two opportunities when he got past Cole on the outside
Valencia should be doing training sessions and even playing the odd reserve match on the left wing - its inexcusable for a footballer to be so one footed given the amount they play the game
If we had a chance to buy a bale or another talented winger I'd be saying goodbye to Valencia or Young
Show him inside and he'll end up going backwards
He did have one or two opportunities when he got past Cole on the outside
Valencia should be doing training sessions and even playing the odd reserve match on the left wing - its inexcusable for a footballer to be so one footed given the amount they play the game
If we had a chance to buy a bale or another talented winger I'd be saying goodbye to Valencia or Young
sell them both, give zaha lots of games. rather see zaha struggle a bit as he'll learn whereas young and valencia have zero room for large improvement.
pick up a lad like antoine griezmann to replace one, zaha for the other. keep nanners.
Should make him train with only his left boot on.
Noticed this too. It's like no one at the club is aware he's in such bad form.
Yep, I definitely think he's been figured out - and this has in turn, has destroyed his confidence.
Teams are more than happy to show him inside & the frustrating part which Noodle has highlighted is that our team (or tactics) doesn't seem to have been adjusted to take advantage of this. They're all still standing there waiting for Valencia to beat the man on the outside and whip in a cross.
& to top it all off, the rare occassions Valencia has a chance to cross it in, his confidence is so shot (excuse the pun) that he puts in Bebe's most of the time.
Teams are more than happy to show him inside & the frustrating part which Noodle has highlighted is that our team (or tactics) doesn't seem to have been adjusted to take advantage of this. They're all still standing there waiting for Valencia to beat the man on the outside and whip in a cross.
& to top it all off, the rare occassions Valencia has a chance to cross it in, his confidence is so shot (excuse the pun) that he puts in Bebe's most of the time.
Why we keep playing him I don't know, can only be in the hopes that he'll pick his game up. In terms of passing to him though its understandable, if he's on the pitch you can't ignore him and because he's one of the few wingers who sticks to the flank he's typically in space.
I don't think it's a case if him being shepherded inside nor do I think he gets the ball with no space to take it down the line because there's always space for rafael to get beyond him. It's all about hesitation for me, he gets the ball and stops, he doesn't run on to it and he doesn't take a touch and then power past the full back, he just stops or jogs a bit and then turns. This then allows them to get tighter to him but I don't think it would really stop him being able to take it down the line if he wanted.
I don't think it's a case if him being shepherded inside nor do I think he gets the ball with no space to take it down the line because there's always space for rafael to get beyond him. It's all about hesitation for me, he gets the ball and stops, he doesn't run on to it and he doesn't take a touch and then power past the full back, he just stops or jogs a bit and then turns. This then allows them to get tighter to him but I don't think it would really stop him being able to take it down the line if he wanted.
Yeh it has nothing to do with being shepherded inside I don't think. Well not at first anyway. He generally has space initially that he can bully his way into, he just doesn't seem to be able to think quickly enough these days. Ends up stopping and then getting marked out before he even starts to look like doing something with the ball. That is the most frustrating part with him right now. I could live with him just knocking the ball forward and the defenders winning it off him, but his stopping and letting players surround him does my head in.
This is so, so true. He isn't doubled up on, they come in threes or four at him at the second he receives the ball. If the team was more mobile around him, we could exploit the obvious gap that leaves in other areas of the pitch!
I am surprised it took them so long. He is the most one dimensional player I have ever seen I think. And absolutely useless when double teamed. His biggest asset was his pace and he has lost that at an alarming rate this season.
shhh, don't talk sense here.We only lost due to Valencia and he is soooo shite it's unbelievable.
He was absolute shite, but nobody is really saying he's the sole reason we drew, and noodle does make a very good point there.
Felt like a loss tbf
Noodle made a great point, point that I've been making for some time now cause it should be obvious. Unsurprisingly enough, it's ignored so we can make Valencia scapegoat for that terrible 2nd half showing, yet completely clean RvP's name ('how could he play well if wasn't given any support?').
Cristiano fecking Ronaldo struggles when triple marked, what the hell are you expecting from Valencia? He was having absolutely zero support on his right side, was screaming for Rafael at times. A couple of diabolical crosses and shots are the only things he is solely to be blamed for.
Noodle made a great point, point that I've been making for some time now cause it should be obvious. Unsurprisingly enough, it's ignored so we can make Valencia scapegoat for that terrible 2nd half showing, yet completely clean RvP's name ('how could he play well if wasn't given any support?').
Cristiano fecking Ronaldo struggles when triple marked, what the hell are you expecting from Valencia? He was having absolutely zero support on his right side, was screaming for Rafael at times. A couple of diabolical crosses and shots are the only things he is solely to be blamed for.
Felt like a loss tbf
Noodle made a great point, point that I've been making for some time now cause it should be obvious. Unsurprisingly enough, it's ignored so we can make Valencia scapegoat for that terrible 2nd half showing, yet completely clean RvP's name ('how could he play well if wasn't given any support?').
Cristiano fecking Ronaldo struggles when triple marked, what the hell are you expecting from Valencia? He was having absolutely zero support on his right side, was screaming for Rafael at times. A couple of diabolical crosses and shots are the only things he is solely to be blamed for.
So Valencia hasn't been shite, he's just being triple marked by absolutely every team we face and never has support?
Felt like a loss tbf
Noodle made a great point, point that I've been making for some time now cause it should be obvious. Unsurprisingly enough, it's ignored so we can make Valencia scapegoat for that terrible 2nd half showing, yet completely clean RvP's name ('how could he play well if wasn't given any support?').
Cristiano fecking Ronaldo struggles when triple marked, what the hell are you expecting from Valencia? He was having absolutely zero support on his right side, was screaming for Rafael at times. A couple of diabolical crosses and shots are the only things he is solely to be blamed for.
More screaming for a Clev actually doing anything in the middle and gving the needed support. He was absolutley invisible
Felt like a loss tbf
Noodle made a great point, point that I've been making for some time now cause it should be obvious. Unsurprisingly enough, it's ignored so we can make Valencia scapegoat for that terrible 2nd half showing, yet completely clean RvP's name ('how could he play well if wasn't given any support?').
Cristiano fecking Ronaldo struggles when triple marked, what the hell are you expecting from Valencia? He was having absolutely zero support on his right side, was screaming for Rafael at times. A couple of diabolical crosses and shots are the only things he is solely to be blamed for.
Wow.
Even after that performance you still can't bring yourself to admit how utter shite he was. Pass accuracy of 56 fecking percent.
Just wow!
It took top level managers years to work out that tactical master-plan?
It's hilarious how Tomuś has basically avoided this thread completely since the game, yet as soon as noodle makes a good point that absolves Valencia of some blame he rushes back in and goes "yeah I was saying that all along too, it's not remotely his fault!"
There have been games where he's played poorly due to his shite form. That was something else, not entirely his fault. I'm sorry but we don't have wingers who could escape such marking from Chelsea.
I seriously hope he is able to recapture his form. He wont be around for much longer if this continues. I think he is a fantastic player when he runs at the opposition and puts in a dangerous cross for our front men to attack.
Did you miss the first half?
It's not as simple as showing him inside, teams have been very good at stopping him getting the ball in space and very very rarely these days leave him completely 1 on 1, there's often another player waiting to cover for that old kick and rush.
56 % pass accuracy. And that for a guy who takes no risks with his passing! He was fecking garbage.
If you compare the space and support from cms Nani got to this of Valencia's then I'm not intending to push it on. Ah, and I thought this was Nani's poorest game since he got back into the side. Did you see the difference in Chelsea's and our own game after the interval?
Of course you did!
Did you not think there was a reason Chelsea were marking Valencia that way compared to Nani, maybe because they knew it'd completely nullify him where the same couldn't be said about Nani, or was it just total coincidence and had absolutely nothing to do with what winger was playing?
The difference before and after the interval, it's almost as if something happened just before half time that cause us to crumble, hrm, I wonder.
Seriously Cina, you know the man love Tomus has for Tony, it's really not worth debating if the man still can't admit that Valencia was garbage in a game in which he passed the ball almost as much to the opposition as he did to his teammates. He's not even an expansive passer. It was a horrid, horrid performance.
I wouldn't be defending Nani after a performance like that, that's for sure.
Yeah, I thought so. You see, different people, different views. He lost the ball several times in one passage of play near our penalty box that could have ended up in us conceding, was at times out of sync. Put in two great crosses, though so yes, he was better than Valencia.
the whole team played differently in the first half, we were going at them in numbers, whereas in the second half it was 'give the ball to Tony and hope he can beat three people before crossing it'. Seriously, can;t see the difference?
I can't believe the 56% though, that is beyond awful for a player at our club. A player who doesn't even really play risky passes, like say, Giggs, or Anderson.
Tomus, if you can't see how utterly rubbish he was then your specs for him are beyond all normal levels of tinted, seriously, FIFTY SIX PERCENT.
Of course I see the difference, Nani did far better when he got the ball than Valencia did. Do you think at half time Benitez said "Let's mark that winger tighter!" out of absolute coincidence, or maybe because he knew Valencia could do feck all as soon as he did that.
Or maybe he's a massive racist and can't tell them apart and had no idea they switched.
Tomuś' man-love for Valencia is so irrational that he has me on ignore doesn't he?
Are we at the point where Valencia's form this season has been so consistent, i.e. shit, that we take it for granted (in the same way as Chelsea fans are resigned to Torres' form)?
Would there be a reason for such a dip AND the reluctance to go outside your fullback? Surely going outside (as Valencia must do with no left peg) should be a natural thing regardless of whether his final ball is any good? But he steadfastly comes to a complete stop, and just lays it back to Rafael!
Very baffling...
Would there be a reason for such a dip AND the reluctance to go outside your fullback? Surely going outside (as Valencia must do with no left peg) should be a natural thing regardless of whether his final ball is any good? But he steadfastly comes to a complete stop, and just lays it back to Rafael!
Very baffling...
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