Antonio Valencia... | Will wear #25 shirt from this point onwards by request

[Interval]

If I wanted to keep Carrick, Hernandez and Evans, but get rid of Rooney and Valencia, would I be lumped in with this "you lot"?

If my memory serves me correctly,Valencia has done sweet FA this year, was good for a third of last season, and half the season before.
He has produced ever decreasing performances, culminating in his worst season so far.
What is there to suggest he can turn this around, when he has been given more than enough opportunities to play his way out of it?

There has to come a time when enough is enough. To suggest people are being Knee-jerk, ignores the fact that the critcism is about his long-term malaise, not just recent weeks.

Yes, you deserve to be lumped in with the lot. This sort of reaction is exactly the same as we’ve seen in all the other threads. Start with a layer having a bad season, exaggerate his weaknesses, revise history and call for him to be sold. It’s the epitome of knee jerk.

Lets start one by one

1. Valencia has done sweet FA this year, was good for a third of last season, and half the season before:

Wrong! He was excellent almost all through last season culminating in him being given the number 7 jersey. Reactions:

Valencia 7

It's Tony. Well deserved!

According to the OS, Ecuador winger Valencia requested the no.7 shirt

Glad Tony has got the #7 shirt, he deserves it.

Well deserved.

Hope he can go from strength to strength

Deserves it. Best winger in the premier league.

Deserved. Put his health and heart on the line for us, dumped his agent to secure a future in the club.

Never complained about shit... Pretty much a true United player - One of our finest.

In the 2011-12 season, Valencia played in 22 league matches and had 13 assists and 4 goals. Cemented his place as a regular on the right. Obviously you might point out to a 2 month period where his form may have slumped but largely excellent. So that’s history revision 1.

I look at the players we really couldn't of done without this season (or at least since the turn of the year) so for me it's got to be between;

Rooney - For the goals
Valencia - For the all round creativity
Carrick - For consistently good performances
Scholes - Because had he not came back we probably wouldn't of been able to field a midfield for quite a few weeks and of course his form has been terrific

Lastly I'd have Antonio Valencia, because even though he had a pretty bad first half of the season (or at least until the beginning of december) he has since then been untouchable in every game. Not one fullback has been able to contain him, and he has turned into our go to man. No surprise that since he returned to form that we've gone on a great run. That goal against blackburn as well

Rooney for me. Closely followed by Carrick, Evans and Valencia.

Rooney. Hes been the man this season. And not even a yellow card in the league. A very mature season when we've needed it from him. Honourable mentions to Carrick, Evans, Valencia and DDG

Paul Scholes - different class, different level, different team altogether

Then Carrick and Rooney

Then Evans and Tony V

Those 5 have been immense for us this season.

Honourable mention to DDG since Feb.

History revision 2: He was injured for 2/3rd of the season in 2010-11. He was an important part of the team when he came back and within 2 months won his place back from Nani and started the champions league final. Not a stellar season but not one where he did sweet FA unless you’re going to count being injured.

2. He has produced ever decreasing performances, culminating in his worst season so far.
Wrong again. Like previously enumerated, his best season for us was last season nullifying your ever decreasing performances statement.

3. What is there to suggest he can turn this around, when he has been given more than enough opportunities to play his way out of it?
People said the same about Carrick. Said the same about Evans. Just because you had faith in those players doesn’t make your current stance against Valencia any less amusing. All of these players had, according to the caf, feckall seasons, with every decreasing performances. They managed to turn it around quite okay.

4. There has to come a time when enough is enough. To suggest people are being Knee-jerk, ignores the fact that the critcism is about his long-term malaise, not just recent weeks
I never suggested its recent weeks. I even said he has had a poor season. The idiotic part is the long term malaise, unless you’re suggesting that he has just plain lost his attributes. It is not unusual for a player to lose form for a season.

Given how much he loves the club, the performances he has put for us, he deserves another shot. He isn’t a world beater like Van Persie. But on form, he is a darn good player. A player we have benefitted from having in the past. He probably deserves to be dropped but sold? You’re talking out of your arse.

 

[Deleted 20801]

I can't understand this view that Valencia is currently the way he is because defenders have "found him out" or that Managers now know how to "deal with him". I mean where was any sign of that last season? How can you go from dominating all defenders in a season, to not being able to play one single game in the same form? So was it one hell of an amazing pre-season for every defender in the league? Did all the teams sit down, watch Valencia's performances and all agree on effective ways to make him look shit? I'd semi understand that reasoning if Valencia was playing in a similar style to last season, but he very clearly isn't, it's not even remotely comparable. He clearly isn't performing like he was 12 months ago, which has to be a much bigger factor over how defenders are playing against him now. Almost all the things that made him a devestating winger last season, aren't apparent at all this season - there's games when he isn't double or triple marked, parts of a match where he does have space ahead of him, or room down the wing to exploit, and he doesn't, when he definitely would before. Be it confidence, fitness or whatever, it's not because defenders have worked him out and there's nothing he can do to stop that. If you threw in Valencia from last season, he would still be battering teams. That shows the difference is in him, and of course the defenders/teams this season are going to take advantage of that, it's common sense to mark him further because he is the weakest link for us going forward and most likely to give up possession or reduce our attack.

 

[Interval]

I can't understand this view that Valencia is currently the way he is because defenders have "found him out" or that Managers now know how to "deal with him". I mean where was any sign of that last season? How can you go from dominating all defenders in a season, to not being able to play one single game in the same form? So was it one hell of an amazing pre-season for every defender in the league? Did all the teams sit down, watch Valencia's performances and all agree on effective ways to make him look shit? I'd semi understand that reasoning if Valencia was playing in a similar style to last season, but he very clearly isn't, it's not even remotely comparable. He clearly isn't performing like he was 12 months ago, which has to be a much bigger factor over how defenders are playing against him now. Almost all the things that made him a devestating winger last season, aren't apparent at all this season - there's games when he isn't double or triple marked, parts of a match where he does have space ahead of him, or room down the wing to exploit, and he doesn't, when he definitely would before. Be it confidence, fitness or whatever, it's not because defenders have worked him out and there's nothing he can do to stop that. If you threw in Valencia from last season, he would still be battering teams. That shows the difference is in him, and of course the defenders/teams this season are going to take advantage of that, it's common sense to mark him further because he is the weakest link for us going forward and most likely to give up possession or reduce our attack.

Its just people going into full retard mode. He has been doing what he does since he joined the PL in 2006. It apparently took 7 years of analysis and meticulous planning to do and now the competing teams' hard work is paying off.

 

[gza the genius]

Yep, completely agree with Hectic. The idea that every single team he's come up against this season has miraculously figured out how to completely stop Valencia is ridiculous. The fact that he is so one dimensional just strengthens that argument for me because surely every single team last year knew exactly what they should do to stop Valencia but it didn't really matter, yet somehow this season every single team has got it right. The problem is clearly with Valencia.

 

[Castia]

The teams dont need to figure him out because he doesn't ever try and beat his man anymore. I could count on one hand the amount of times he's run at his full back this season. Imagine if Rio Ferdinand got played on the wings, that reminds me how Valencia has played all season, he looks clueless.

 

[wonnie]

Nani and Young should be playing instead of him for the rest of the season. Valencia has had more than enough chances and its clear that its just not happening for him - both physically and mentality wise he doesn't look right.

Give him some time off and see what next season brings.

 

[I'm always right]

Interval Level's multi-post

Where's that "didn't read" gif

 

[I'm always right]

Its just people going into full retard mode. He has been doing what he does since he joined the PL in 2006. It apparently took 7 years of analysis and meticulous planning to do and now the competing teams' hard work is paying off.

If anyone really thinks Valencia has been devastating teams in the PL for 7 years they need to give their head a wobble.

 

[Deleted 20801]

Probably as much as the people who believe every defender in the league has figured Valencia out simultaneously over one single pre-season.

 

[Interval]

Interval Level's multi-post

Where's that "didn't read" gif

If anyone really thinks Valencia has been devastating teams in the PL for 7 years they need to give their head a wobble.

He has been above your average winger. Even at Wigan, he looked more than decent

 

[Cold_Boy]

I can't understand this view that Valencia is currently the way he is because defenders have "found him out" or that Managers now know how to "deal with him". I mean where was any sign of that last season? How can you go from dominating all defenders in a season, to not being able to play one single game in the same form? So was it one hell of an amazing pre-season for every defender in the league? Did all the teams sit down, watch Valencia's performances and all agree on effective ways to make him look shit? I'd semi understand that reasoning if Valencia was playing in a similar style to last season, but he very clearly isn't, it's not even remotely comparable. He clearly isn't performing like he was 12 months ago, which has to be a much bigger factor over how defenders are playing against him now. Almost all the things that made him a devestating winger last season, aren't apparent at all this season - there's games when he isn't double or triple marked, parts of a match where he does have space ahead of him, or room down the wing to exploit, and he doesn't, when he definitely would before. Be it confidence, fitness or whatever, it's not because defenders have worked him out and there's nothing he can do to stop that. If you threw in Valencia from last season, he would still be battering teams. That shows the difference is in him, and of course the defenders/teams this season are going to take advantage of that, it's common sense to mark him further because he is the weakest link for us going forward and most likely to give up possession or reduce our attack.

Spot on.

 

[I'm always right]

Probably as much as the people who believe every defender in the league has figured Valencia out simultaneously over one single pre-season.

After his first truly excellent season (well 6 months anyway) since coming to the Premier League I believe he deserved a bit more scrutiny from the opposition, pretty much in the same way SAF decided Bale has now done enough to deserve a similar approach.

Now obviously he has his moments now where he does have a chance one on one but because teams have denied him space, doubled up on him, shown him inside etc all season, this has lead to a massive crisis in confidence for him. So now he doesn't even try it when it's on. It's a mixture of teams giving him more respect and him then losing all confidence.

I don't think that opinion deserves a head wobble but well.. I'll wobble it anyway cause I like it.

 

[I'm always right]

He has been above your average winger. Even at Wigan, he looked more than decent

As I said above, he was never good enough to deserve special attention, not until the last 6 months of last season anyway. Same as Bale didn't deserve special attention from us until this season.

 

[Plechazunga]

I can't understand this view that Valencia is currently the way he is because defenders have "found him out" or that Managers now know how to "deal with him". I mean where was any sign of that last season? How can you go from dominating all defenders in a season, to not being able to play one single game in the same form? So was it one hell of an amazing pre-season for every defender in the league? Did all the teams sit down, watch Valencia's performances and all agree on effective ways to make him look shit? I'd semi understand that reasoning if Valencia was playing in a similar style to last season, but he very clearly isn't, it's not even remotely comparable. He clearly isn't performing like he was 12 months ago, which has to be a much bigger factor over how defenders are playing against him now. Almost all the things that made him a devestating winger last season, aren't apparent at all this season - there's games when he isn't double or triple marked, parts of a match where he does have space ahead of him, or room down the wing to exploit, and he doesn't, when he definitely would before. Be it confidence, fitness or whatever, it's not because defenders have worked him out and there's nothing he can do to stop that. If you threw in Valencia from last season, he would still be battering teams. That shows the difference is in him, and of course the defenders/teams this season are going to take advantage of that, it's common sense to mark him further because he is the weakest link for us going forward and most likely to give up possession or reduce our attack.

Well full-backs often work wingers out for a while. It's about deciding where to position themselves as the winger's running at them. The last couple of years they've known he's going to go right but don't know exactly when, then he feints once or twice and they either sell themselves or react too slowly when he does go. But this season they haven't been buying the feints and are well-positioned to turn and sprint when he goes.

Confidence is surely a big issue, but it may be that the reason his confidence is so low is because he started the season trying what he always did, and found it just didn't work anymore.

No they don't all sit round together, but one or two work it out and then the others copy. We've seen it with loads of wingers over the years, including Giggsy in the mid-nineties. The good ones up their game and respond to it by developing new, less predictable modes of attack.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I was watching Rooneys program on mutv the other day, and it was noticeable
How much quicker Valencia delivered the ball in 09/10 compared to now.

I think his problem is mental, where as before what he did was natural now he is second guessing every move, perhaps almost trying too hard to find the perfect pass or move.

It's a little worrying how he has not moved out of this slump yet.

 

[gza the genius]

Valencia genuinely hasn't had one single good game this season, I can understand defenders/managers figuring out what to do to stop Valencia but it still isn't going to work 100% of the time. I can't remember more than a handful of times he's even went past a defender by dribbling. If this is all down to getting shut down a few times at the beginning of the season and losing confidence then he's an extremely mentally fragile player, which goes against the way he recovered from his leg break.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

His delivery has been the most disappointing thing for me. He used to pick out inch perfect crosses from the worst angles, but not he's hitting the most awful crosses from perfect angles. Strange turn of events.

His telepathic understanding with Rooney in the 09/10 season was brilliant, he's not really had that kind of understanding with any of the other forwards and Rooney hasn't played that far forward for a full season since then.

Whatever it is, I hope it's not long term shitness but it is worrying after a near full season of utterly poor displays from Valencia.

 

[Forevergiggs]

I can't understand this view that Valencia is currently the way he is because defenders have "found him out" or that Managers now know how to "deal with him". I mean where was any sign of that last season? How can you go from dominating all defenders in a season, to not being able to play one single game in the same form? So was it one hell of an amazing pre-season for every defender in the league? Did all the teams sit down, watch Valencia's performances and all agree on effective ways to make him look shit? I'd semi understand that reasoning if Valencia was playing in a similar style to last season, but he very clearly isn't, it's not even remotely comparable. He clearly isn't performing like he was 12 months ago, which has to be a much bigger factor over how defenders are playing against him now. Almost all the things that made him a devestating winger last season, aren't apparent at all this season - there's games when he isn't double or triple marked, parts of a match where he does have space ahead of him, or room down the wing to exploit, and he doesn't, when he definitely would before. Be it confidence, fitness or whatever, it's not because defenders have worked him out and there's nothing he can do to stop that. If you threw in Valencia from last season, he would still be battering teams. That shows the difference is in him, and of course the defenders/teams this season are going to take advantage of that, it's common sense to mark him further because he is the weakest link for us going forward and most likely to give up possession or reduce our attack.

Yup. I find the notion that he has been figured out preposterous.

Delivery, pace, strength with which he overpowered defenders, relentlessness, have all been lacking this season so far on a consistent basis.

 

[Amir]

Yeah, it's not very likely that suddenly EVERYONE knows how to stop him. Even if some did, there's no way every would both know and be able to.

 

[Eugenius]

I don't think it's a case of people "figuring" out Valencia. He's not exactly bloody hard to figure out. He's going to try and go on the outside and smash the ball into the box. Everyone knew what he was going to do but he was just too big and strong to stop - he just did it anyway.

I think he's either carrying an injury and/or is lacking confidence. He seems to be laboured in his running in general and doesn't seem to want to take his man on as he used to do. Although he's always been limited, he always used to make his mind up quickly and have the physical attributes to be unstoppable. He's hesitating too much and allows the opposition defender the time to limit his options.

 

[Eyepopper]

If it was a case of defenders finding him out he's have gotten past one or two somewhere along the line... he hasn't.... he's been terrible this year. Hopefully he picks his form up during the run in but I doubt it, given hows hes played all season, maybe the summer will revive him.

Strange situation for Utd to be in but none of our wingers are setting the world on fire this year.

 

[Shark]

I don't agree at all that opposing teams have found him out. He's been with us since 2009, so why now?

He's just having a horrendous season. I can remember people saying the same thing about Hernandez last season.

 

[Tomuś]

Tomuś' man-love for Valencia is so irrational that he has me on ignore doesn't he?

Spoiler

There are 2 lads on here showing worryingly disturbing man-love signs and I'm not one of them. At least I don't have to constantly post in Nani/Valencia threads, throwing a hissy fit in girly manner everytime sb dares to have different opinion. Honestly I suggest letting it go, which you probably still can't do, cause I sincerely don't give a flying feck about it. For some time as well. Also, having you on ignore? your head swells I think

The gif's shite btw.

 

[Massive Spanner]

You are literally the only person on this forum who has refused to say he had a shit game Tomus, if that's not man love, I don't know what is.

 

[I'm always right]

Tomús went bad-ass!

I thought it was a good rant except for the part where he said "At least I don't have to constantly post in Nani/Valencia threads"... You don't?


Check out your tag-line my man, it was given for a reason.

 

[Tomuś]

You are literally the only person on this forum who has refused to say he had a shit game Tomus, if that's not man love, I don't know what is.

Yeah, because I said he was terrific. I pointed out things he fecked up entirely due to himself, but also stated his general performance was hugely and prominently determined by us being totally shite that second half.

Heck, I even said Nani was better, isn't that everything you want to hear?

I can't believe adults can get so easily wound up.

 

[I'm always right]

Yeah, because I said he was terrific. I pointed out things he fecked up entirely due to himself, but also stated his general performance was hugely and prominently determined by us being totally shite that second half.

To be fair not a single other played had pass accuracy below 70%, considering how totally shite we were. Only one player managed that degree of shiteness.

A professional footballer for Manchester United with pass accuracy in the 50's, I mean, I'd expect half his team to be dead for that to happen.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Yeah, because I said he was terrific. I pointed out things he fecked up entirely due to himself, but also stated his general performance was hugely and prominently determined by us being totally shite that second half.

Heck, I even said Nani was better, isn't that everything you want to hear?

I can't believe adults can get so easily wound up.

You defended his performance far more than anyone else on here and only came into this thread two days later when someone else made a defensive point about him. Where were you until then?

Also the idea that you don't come into the Nani thread is laughable really. Do you want me to get the quotes?

 

[Tomuś]

You defended his performance far more than anyone else on here and only came into this thread two days later when someone else made a defensive point about him. Where were you until then?

Also the idea that you don't come into the Nani thread is laughable really. Do you want me to get the quotes?

Again, do I post in Nani's thread frequently? I didn't say I don't go there at all.

And believe me, I don't even know what was being said here apart from the quick glance at all the 'he's shite' comments. it is not of my biggest concerns. I came here, liked noodle's take on it and replied.

That's how it should be, no?

 

[Verminator]

Yes, you deserve to be lumped in with the lot. This sort of reaction is exactly the same as we’ve seen in all the other threads. Start with a layer having a bad season, exaggerate his weaknesses, revise history and call for him to be sold. It’s the epitome of knee jerk.

Lets start one by one

1. Valencia has done sweet FA this year, was good for a third of last season, and half the season before:

Wrong! He was excellent almost all through last season culminating in him being given the number 7 jersey. Reactions:












In the 2011-12 season, Valencia played in 22 league matches and had 13 assists and 4 goals. Cemented his place as a regular on the right. Obviously you might point out to a 2 month period where his form may have slumped but largely excellent. So that’s history revision 1.











History revision 2: He was injured for 2/3rd of the season in 2010-11. He was an important part of the team when he came back and within 2 months won his place back from Nani and started the champions league final. Not a stellar season but not one where he did sweet FA unless you’re going to count being injured.

2. He has produced ever decreasing performances, culminating in his worst season so far.
Wrong again. Like previously enumerated, his best season for us was last season nullifying your ever decreasing performances statement.

3. What is there to suggest he can turn this around, when he has been given more than enough opportunities to play his way out of it?
People said the same about Carrick. Said the same about Evans. Just because you had faith in those players doesn’t make your current stance against Valencia any less amusing. All of these players had, according to the caf, feckall seasons, with every decreasing performances. They managed to turn it around quite okay.

4. There has to come a time when enough is enough. To suggest people are being Knee-jerk, ignores the fact that the critcism is about his long-term malaise, not just recent weeks
I never suggested its recent weeks. I even said he has had a poor season. The idiotic part is the long term malaise, unless you’re suggesting that he has just plain lost his attributes. It is not unusual for a player to lose form for a season.

Given how much he loves the club, the performances he has put for us, he deserves another shot. He isn’t a world beater like Van Persie. But on form, he is a darn good player. A player we have benefitted from having in the past. He probably deserves to be dropped but sold? You’re talking out of your arse.

Spoiler

 

[Verminator]

Interval Level's multi-post

Where's that "didn't read" gif

Bastard!!
Just read this!

 

[Ekeke]

Again, do I post in Nani's thread frequently? I didn't say I don't go there at all.

And believe me, I don't even know what was being said here apart from the quick glance at all the 'he's shite' comments. it is not of my biggest concerns. I came here, liked noodle's take on it and replied.

That's how it should be, no?

Just as long as you agree that Valencia has been absolutely shit this season compared to last season and his final ball about as bad as anyone in our squad, like any sane person would have to admit.

Then you can like whatever you want and not be seen as someone who will defend the player no matter how badly he plays.

 

[Eyepopper]

Remember that time we banned stupid fecking gifs from the football forum?

 

[Isotope]

I'm surprised as well. And that .gif isn't that original as well.

 

[kouroux]

Remember that time we banned stupid fecking gifs from the football forum?

That gif is way beyond stupid.

 

[Commadus]

Valencia was always a limited player technically and relied heavily on his physical aspects. He seems to be too heavy, lacks that explosive play. Without technical ability to fall back on he looks very limited currently.

 

[Ekeke]

I completely disagree. Valencia is good technically as he has shown before taking long balls under his control. The problem is that he always played within himself to a degree, for example his famed reluctance to use his left foot. Even though on the very few occasions hes used it its not like the ball has spun off the outside of his foot out for a throw in while he breaks his ankle or something. Its been more than fine. He just chooses against using it, time and time again.

Unfortunately if he tries to play within himself any more than he currently does, he might dissappear inside himself never to be seen again

 

[RK]

Why isn't Valencia as good as Messi? He has all the natural attributes, but probably isn't going to reach the same heights.

 

[Tomuś]

Just as long as you agree that Valencia has been absolutely shit this season compared to last season and his final ball about as bad as anyone in our squad, like any sane person would have to admit.

Then you can like whatever you want and not be seen as someone who will defend the player no matter how badly he plays.

For the umpteenth time, it's not my problem problem. I've claimed some 102930 times in this very thread that Valencia is way below his last season's standards but it's not enough for some. I find it more and more hilarious rather than annoying.

 

[Amar__]

Messi esque. Who said he is in decline?
















How did he manage to mess up such a good chance after that?

NSFW:

Spoiler