Antonio Valencia... | Will wear #25 shirt from this point onwards by request

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Rozay said:
So as a rule, a player is as good as his best season, but not as bad as his worst?
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You are still talking about footballers aren't you? He is in bad firm , but that doesn't make him a bad player. Bellion, DJemba etc were rubbish who could never step up to this level, but we know Valencia can because he did so and affected many games for us.
 
gza the genius said:
If Nani leaves we definitely need to buy a winger. Even if Valencia somehow remembers how to play football again we'll be left with Young (decent enough but never good enough to start regularly) and Zaha (huge potential but it would be crazy to expect him to step up and be good enough to start regularly next season).
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Funny that exactly what Fergie's did when Ronaldo came.
 
Cuntey Cakir probably did us a favour sending Nani off midweek so we couldn't bring Valencia on for him. Worse than playing with 10 men today.
 
I'd give him one more season. Hopefully he can get a good preseason under his belt and treat it like a fresh start.
 
Brwned, your inbox is full, so I hope you will answer my question here:

Nevermind his overall play, do you still think Valencia hasn't lost a yard of pace?
 
I'm usually the one who comes to defend Valencia on this thread, but he really was awful today. Not sure how many times he just ran into a dead end, and then not knowing where to go. I think teams have started to realise that he just does not want to use his left foot.
 
I think what's really annoying is that he seems to be playing with almost fear, not willing to take his man on and make something happen. I think if you're doing what you would normally do and it's just not happening then that's one thing but when you're constantly passing the buck as he is atm, that's when it's annoying. The good thing though is that he's still working hard but then really although it's not always the case that's the minimum a player should give.
 
gza the genius said:
If Nani leaves we definitely need to buy a winger. Even if Valencia somehow remembers how to play football again we'll be left with Young (decent enough but never good enough to start regularly) and Zaha (huge potential but it would be crazy to expect him to step up and be good enough to start regularly next season).
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I see kagawa and rooney playing an interchanging role through the middle and the left long term so if Valencia gets back to his best, we wont need a winger.
 
Think Nani coming off killed us in the game. Valencia offered absolutely nothing, he'll be moved on in the summer. One of the worst runs of form in a red shirt since Bebé and Obertan.

Would love it if he changed it round, but I can't see it, he's slow to react, lacks confidence, won't take on a man, stops us moving forward and it's been a hell of a while since he put in a 6+ performance. Not good enough for the shirt, it saddens me to say, I like the man.
 
Hectic said:
..not because he doesn't have a great "range of weapons" and this is now exposed.
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Without wanting to be pedantic, what are they?

I am/was in the same boat as you. Underwhelmed by his signing, but glad he was so instrumental for a while. But I never saw him as more than that Bearded Genius Valencia conundrum pic ("You know what he's gonna do, but you can't stop him")

He was quite a good crosser, but it was mainly dinks to the far post or smacks across goal. There was never any Beckham-esque indication he knew exactly where he was putting it. He didn't take free kicks. He wasn't a brilliant finisher in terms of placing a shot, he'd just whack it. He wasn't skilful or a masterful passer. He is and has always, always been just this very fast, very strong, very right footed player who was playing extremely well. To me at least.

It may not be a case of people "sussing" him out, it may be fitness, or confidence, but the case still seems to be that he can't do that one thing anymore. And as such, is utterly useless.
 
Ash_G said:
I think what's really annoying is that he seems to be playing with almost fear, not willing to take his man on and make something happen. I think if you're doing what you would normally do and it's just not happening then that's one thing but when you're constantly passing the buck as he is atm, that's when it's annoying. The good thing though is that he's still working hard but then really although it's not always the case that's the minimum a player should give.
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I actually thought today he tried to beat the fullback more than he has in any game this season, he just failed at it constantly.
 
He was appalling. There wasn't enough drive or quality in his play. I can't believe he's become this easy to nullify as well. Only he can find a way out of this rut. But until it happens he shouldn't be surprised if he finds himself on the bench.

Anyway by my reckoning, it's Ashley Young's turn to get a run in the side now. He's surely gonna offer more than Valencia can in this form.
 
He was so bad today that he was having a really negative effect on our performance, and that's the point when we really need to start worrying. Up until today the excuse was "yeah but he's still defensively our best winger" or "his link up play is good" or "he offers or width even when not playing well", but when none of those things hold true anymore, what the feck is the point?

If Nani is out then I'd rather put non wingers like Welbeck or Kagawa there ahead of him, at this stage.
 
Devil may care said:
I actually thought today he tried to beat the fullback more than he has in any game this season, he just failed at it constantly.
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Hmm, personally but for maybe 1 or 2 times I thought he was consistently checking, there were a fair few times when he was in an ideal position to have a go and he just wouldn't.
 
Mockney said:
Without wanting to be pedantic, what are they?

I am/was in the same boat as you. Underwhelmed by his signing, but glad he was so instrumental for a while. But I never saw him as more than that Bearded Genius Valencia conundrum pic ("You know what he's gonna do, but you can't stop him")

He was quite a good crosser, but it was mainly dinks to the far post or smacks across goal. There was never any Beckham-esque indication he knew exactly where he was putting it. He didn't take free kicks. He wasn't a brilliant finisher in terms of placing a shot, he'd just whack it. He wasn't skilful or a masterful passer. He is and has always, always been just this very fast, very strong, very right footed player who was playing extremely well. To me at least.

It may not be a case of people "sussing" him out, it may be fitness, or confidence, but the case still seems to be that he can't do that one thing anymore. And as such, is utterly useless.
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I can't disagree with any of that either, especially the last paragraph. He is pretty simple as far as wingers go, I've always considered him a level below Nani because his game is clearly more limited, but he was also incredibly effective doing the simple things. I think it's definitely confidence based, fitness too probably (that talk of him playing through an injury must be a factor) and without being able to do the simple things he does best - I'd agree with all you listed and wouldn't disagree with the things you left out - he is pretty rubbish. I'm just certain it's not because he's been found out or anything like that, it's on him. Sure defenders are using his inability to do anything right now to their advantage, but if he was playing like he was last season, they'd be just as helpless now as they were back then.
 
Mockney said:
Without wanting to be pedantic, what are they?

I am/was in the same boat as you. Underwhelmed by his signing, but glad he was so instrumental for a while. But I never saw him as more than that Bearded Genius Valencia conundrum pic ("You know what he's gonna do, but you can't stop him")

He was quite a good crosser, but it was mainly dinks to the far post or smacks across goal. There was never any Beckham-esque indication he knew exactly where he was putting it. He didn't take free kicks. He wasn't a brilliant finisher in terms of placing a shot, he'd just whack it. He wasn't skilful or a masterful passer. He is and has always, always been just this very fast, very strong, very right footed player who was playing extremely well. To me at least.

It may not be a case of people "sussing" him out, it may be fitness, or confidence, but the case still seems to be that he can't do that one thing anymore. And as such, is utterly useless.
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It appears you expressed my point better than I did.
 
I was one of his biggest fans. He was a beast of a winger but tbh, other than Torres, I've never see a loss in ability so massive. Very sad.
 
Ash_G said:
Hmm, personally but for maybe 1 or 2 times I thought he was consistently checking, there were a fair few times when he was in an ideal position to have a go and he just wouldn't.
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I could be wrong it just seemed to me like he was more positive when he had the ball and tried to do what he used to do, but pushed it too far at times or hit a woeful cross after working a bit of space.
 
Mockney said:
Point being, should we all stop saying Torres is shite because he was once really good (and when he was really good, he was much better than Valencia, who's always been a one trick pony that was just very good at his one trick)
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Sorry had to nip out.

I'm a tad confused though, I've never said that people should stop saying Valencia has been shite. My issue is with revisionist comments like 'he's always been shite' - which is clearly bollocks.
 
Plechazunga said:
I'd love to know how many times he gave the ball away

It felt like about 708, though in the way of these things it will probably turn out to be 3
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Pass completion of 56%, and that is from a site that gave Cleverley and Rooney 89% and 88% respectively.
 
He picked up the ball today a few times and I just wanted him to put on the afterburners but he didn't.

Remember the game at Anfield this season where he nicked the ball at half way then ended up winning us a penalty? He had the ball on halfway a few times today but just didn't look to stretch their defence or get himself into a dangerous position. This stuttering, then going back on himself is just painful to see. It is as if he has totally changed his game for the worse or someone has told him to retain possession more and stop being direct.

The worrying thing for me is the drastic change in mentality.
 
He wasn't good today, but was certainly not helped by his teammates. Easily the most isolated player on the pitch at times.
 
lem8sh said:
He's simply not very good.
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Absolute bullshit.

He's had a very poor season since he's came back from injury, he was awful today, and wouldn't be starting games if I was the manager.

However, to say that he's not a good player is a bit much.
 
jakec said:
Absolute bullshit.

He's had a very poor season since he's came back from injury, he was awful today, and wouldn't be starting games if I was the manager.

However, to say that he's not a good player is a bit much.
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I think what a more accurate thing to say, is that he is not a good player at the moment.....no question about that!
 
jakec said:
Absolute bullshit.

He's had a very poor season since he's came back from injury, he was awful today, and wouldn't be starting games if I was the manager.

However, to say that he's not a good player is a bit much.
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I genuinely never rated him, ever. I honestly have never seen what all the fuss is about.
 
Turn, turn, turn, lost the ball. Repeat and rinse. It's just like he's never read that Einstein's quote about insanity.
 
jakec said:
Absolute bullshit.

He's had a very poor season since he's came back from injury, he was awful today, and wouldn't be starting games if I was the manager.

However, to say that he's not a good player is a bit much.
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He is a good player all right, but not as good as some here say so, he is quite overrated by some of our supporters.

Never quite liked him that much, pretty limited footballer.
 
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