The positives from his performance tonight massively outweigh the negatives.
The only negatives for me was the inconsistent crossing and the fact that he faded in the second half, in the first half he was our biggest threat.
Antonio Valencia | 2009/10 Performances
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
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The positives from his performance tonight massively outweigh the negatives.
The only negatives for me was the inconsistent crossing and the fact that he faded in the second half, in the first half he was our biggest threat.
Both Nani and Valencia were very average today
I take your point, but it does seem, like often with Berbatov, that people are too quick to see what they did wrong or poorly in a game and ignore the postives because they are so entrenched in their position that player x or player y is shit and are loathe to show some flexibility in their position. It's like the spastics who still question the selection of John O'Shea or Darren Fletcher.
Aye. It is ok though. Pogue's take on the game is absolute, everyone else who things different is spastic.
Making what very easy for myself?
For what its worth SAF himself said that Valencia was very good and our biggest threat in the first half, and that his only downfall was that his crosses could do with improving.
I wasn't making any comment about Valencia's performance tonight.
I thought his crossing was poor tonight actually. Not bad, but he wasn't very good at making decisions in the box which is exactly what we need him to be. He's one of our only players with a lot of pace which I think makes it look like he's doing a lot, but when you don't get the crossing in when you're an orthodox winger it's pretty poor form.
I do rate him but I wasn't that impressed tonight.
I do rate him but I wasn't that impressed tonight.
Then I'm confused as to what point you were trying to make in the context of the discussion?
Just a comment on the way certain posters jump down the throat of anyone having a negative opinion, and jump on it with loads of 'evidence' why it's either stupid or too early to judge, but have no problem with making very early judgements on other things based on very little evidence, as long as they are positive. It's always been like that on the caf though.
I was going to be more specific but decided not to be.
Fair enough.
I thought he was a real threat down the right wing tonight but faded a little in the 2nd half and eventually was subbed.
No he wasn't subbed, can't agree with that at all.
The problem was that often he'd beaten his man, looked up and there was either no one available in the box or only Rooney and he was being marked by 2 players. He usually looks for an early ball but had to delay it or try and play a perfect slide rule ball at pace which isn't easy.
He made a few poor decisions 2nd half where he drilled it instead of standing it up to the far post which let him down after a very encouraging first half.
I think he was mocking the earlier arguments MUFCgal.
Oh right.
Valencia was just adequate tonight. Like the majority of the team.
5 years gone and people still take Sinch seriously.I thought he was quite crap, but I've got a feeling he's going to turn into a good player for us.
Funnily enough, Top, I was gonna mention your first post last night as a great example of how it is possible to have doubts about a signing but still have the integrity to judge a performance on it's own merits (i.e. not be a spastic)
We all let preconceptions about players sway our opinions but only a tiny minority do this to such an extent they lose touch with reality. My issue was with people who could watch Valencia's performance last night and see absolutely nothing positive in it. Which is fecking mental, when you consider he was arguably one of our best performers throughout the first half.
bearing in mind he was making his champions league debut in quite an intimidating stadium; i thought he done ok......
he obviously needs to work on his crossing, but he has an excellent first touch and control. id also like to see him try and cut inside on his left, he might become a little predictable
he obviously needs to work on his crossing, but he has an excellent first touch and control. id also like to see him try and cut inside on his left, he might become a little predictable
Whether or not people think he had a good or a bad game last night, everyone has to see how good the potential is.
For the first half yesterday he was consistently playing it simple, knocking the ball past the left back and running past him. His final ball let him down a bit, but that can be worked on. He created a lot of our play in the first half, and for that he should be rewarded.
This, in addition to that he works hard for the defensively as well.
He has a directness, and a "keep it simple" attitude that Nani lacks IMO, which is why they might work well together.
Personally I thought he was our best attacking player in the first half, but that he faded a bit as the game went on. He got tired I think.
For the first half yesterday he was consistently playing it simple, knocking the ball past the left back and running past him. His final ball let him down a bit, but that can be worked on. He created a lot of our play in the first half, and for that he should be rewarded.
This, in addition to that he works hard for the defensively as well.
He has a directness, and a "keep it simple" attitude that Nani lacks IMO, which is why they might work well together.
Personally I thought he was our best attacking player in the first half, but that he faded a bit as the game went on. He got tired I think.
We were shit in the first half(not much better in the second but still), so hardly this is some feat.
Knocking the ball past your opponent may work against Besiktas, but against stiffer defences where there's less to no room, Valencia would be awfully predictable and useless IMO.
Sure he works hard and credit for that, but there's a lot in his attacking game that needs improvement.
I don't think his potential is that easy to see. Potential was easy to see in Ronaldo and Rooney when they were younger, or even Nani and Anderson when they burst on the scene. Opinions on Valencia will wary and from this thread it's obvious they do, from deciding he's average to deciding he has lots of potential, and that's because he hasn't done enough YET.
Modric
I thought he played well last night, a constant threat throughout. He's only going to get better too, lets not for forget. That was his debut in the Champions League too - must have been nervous.
I think thats the biggest thing for him at the moment. He still looks a little nervous about playing for Man Utd. Once that passes I'm sure he'll be a good player for us.
Cut him some slack doubters!
I think thats the biggest thing for him at the moment. He still looks a little nervous about playing for Man Utd. Once that passes I'm sure he'll be a good player for us.
Cut him some slack doubters!
Which brings us back to the perennial fallacy about footballers having to show the same potential as Rooney or Ronaldo to be worthy of a place in our squad.
Nani and Anderson also came to us as two of the very best teenagers in world football, which is why they cost as much at 19 as Valencia did last summer. Whether or not they fulfil this potential remains to be seen but they were obviously both signed with the hope that they become future world class footballers (of which our squad will only ever have a handful at any one time)
I think Valencia was signed as a PL proven, solid, unspectacular winger, who will work hard, track back and has the raw materials to potentially be molded into a very good player over time.
Anyone who's expecting the same flair and potential as Rooney, Ronaldo, Nani or Anderson is going to be disappointed but this doesn't mean he won't develop into a useful player for us.
I thought he was good, very fast and direct. His crosses didn't lead to much, partly because some of them weren't very good and partly because there weren't many team mates up with him and waiting in the middle. He offers more in attack than Park and works hard defensively.
Park's movement off the ball is better though and that does lead to him being on the end of good moves. But he's certainly no more economical than Valencia when it comes to his chances to create things for team mates.
He's better than Park was at the age of 23.
He is better then Park.
Is he? He's faster... Park technically better, which isn't a good sign!! But hopefully Valencia will develop his game more.
Park is technically better is he?
Park links up well in our attacks and his movement is really pretty good. Its just a shame his end product is poor. Valencia doesnt have that movement off the ball, but he gives us something different, just going past players on the wing. So far neither is convincing in a claim for being better than the other coming forwards. They just offer different things.
Park links up well in our attacks and his movement is really pretty good. Its just a shame his end product is poor. Valencia doesnt have that movement off the ball, but he gives us something different, just going past players on the wing. So far neither is convincing in a claim for being better than the other coming forwards. They just offer different things.
This.
I've watched enough end product by Park. If he provided any more than he already has he'd be world class. I'd still pick him as a squad player anyhow.
Valencia has freakin pace and does look like he can penetrate his fullbacks more than any winger we have atm. He will only get better and better.
Still awaiting Obertan's Debut.
Park is a good player and a proven player who can play at the highest level. Until Valencia can prove that he can do the same, then Park to me is the better player.
Let's be more specific, in which area's that Park is techniquely better than Valencia ?
I'd say he has a better 1-2.
Better off the ball.
I'd say he has a better 1-2.
Better off the ball.
Er no i didn't say that. You're taking words out of my mouth, i was giving them as an example. There are plenty of examples of players who showed great potential when they came to united and went on to become 'good' players. Carrick showed obvious potential when he came to us, Vidic showed serious potential although most here didn't see it (i was one of the few who thought he'd be a success) as did Evra.
I can't speak for others but in all of these players i saw an obvious potential. Personally, i haven't seen it in Valencia yet. My point was that he doesn't immediately strike you as an incredibly gifted footballer. So his potential isn't super obvious. That doesn't mean he can't become a quality player for us. Just that he isn't someone that the crowd will look at go 'wow, there's some serious potential there' He won't get that luxury from what i've seen.
Lets first be clear that we all haven't seen that much of Valencia and are judging him on the basis of that. He may be better than our perception or worse.
But FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN, Park is much better off the ball, more intelligent, links up much better in the build up and has a lot more variety to his game. Valencia is quicker, stronger and a better crosser. They're very different players really. One is an intelligent, hard working player who will link up excellently with the team but probably not affect the scoreline much. The other doesn't seem to be the most versatile or intelligent players but is strong, hard working and extremely quick. Valencia comes across as a head down, take on your man, and put in a cross player. Which is as different from Park as it gets. Apart from them both being hard working.
Obviously all of this is based on watching Valencia a handful of times, which isn't enough. He's bound to have nerves and is bound to try too hard to please. And i'm bound not to know of many assets of his game he may have.
Park is technically better? That's a joke isn't it?
Valencia is a better dribbler and crosser then Park. The Korean on the other hand has more Manchester United's first team experience, which have taught him that sometimes (or much of the time) its better to pass the ball quickly and go inside the box rather then simply cross it, expecially if there is Rooney (1.78m), Scholes (5.7ft) and Owen/Tevez in the box surrounded by 6.3ft defenders. Its only a matter of time before Valencia recognise that.
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