Antonio Valencia | 2009/10 Performances

[Sam]

Sam you used to be a good poster; stop being so quick to judge. He's been here a matter of months. It's not an easy transition.

Judge him after a season at least.

I'm asking a question. Not judging him.

Without a shadow of a doubt

Good good. His pace is something I feel we could really utilise if we use him right. He just needs to learn to stop slowing it down and allowing defenders back when in good positions.

but in true Caf fashion we need to hang draw and quater him before hand.

 

[Brwned]

You are judging him though, as the question clearly indicates you think he's not been good enough as of yet.

 

[Sam]

You are judging him though, as the question clearly indicates you think he's not been good enough as of yet.

So we're not allowed an opinion of his performances so far?

And there is a difference between judging him and have an opinion on his early season performances.

 

[Brwned]

It's exactly the same thing. Having an opinion on how he's played so far and judging how he's played so far is the exact same thing phrased differently.

Didn't say anything about whether you can or can't judge him, just pointed out that you were judging him.

 

[Striker10]

Sam you used to be a good poster; stop being so quick to judge. He's been here a matter of months. It's not an easy transition.

Judge him after a season at least.

I agree with half of that. It definately takes time. We've still Tosic and Obertan waiting in the wings as it were so the good thing is our hands aren't tied

Still it's early doors and giving him a season is more then fair as he'll play plenty of games which he needs to get used to playing for United

 

[Sam]

It's exactly the same thing. Having an opinion on how he's played so far and judging how he's played so far is the exact same thing phrased differently.

Didn't say anything about whether you can or can't judge him, just pointed out that you were judging him.

Having an opinion of say 5 or 6 early performances is not the same as judging a player overall. Its simply commenting on those games and how he's performed in them. NOT as a player overall.

 

[esmufc07]

Having an opinion of say 5 or 6 early performances is not the same as judging a player overall. Its simply commenting on those games and how he's performed in them. NOT as a player overall.

You said,

He is actually a lot better then what we have seen so far, right?

The nervous smiley gave me the impression you didn't actually think he was any better than what we have seen so far.

 

[Rood]

his first touch is shocking which is quite a worry

I think it has been mentioned before that he is very similar to Kanchelskis in style - Kanchelskis' crossing was woeful when he first came to OT but Fergie sorted that out and he also developed a killer shot which lead to plenty of goals - hopefully we can get the same from Valencia by next season.

 

[Boss]

Does anybody remember the reactions to Valencia during pre-season when we beat Valencia? We can be so fickle sometimes

 

[Sam]

The nervous smiley gave me the impression you didn't actually think he was any better than what we have seen so far.

I actually think he is.

 

[Striker10]

his first touch is shocking which is quite a worry

I think it has been mentioned before that he is very similar to Kanchelskis in style - Kanchelskis' crossing was woeful when he first came to OT but Fergie sorted that out and he also developed a killer shot which lead to plenty of goals - hopefully we can get the same from Valencia by next season.

if he ends up anything like Kanchelskis we'd be very fortunate

 

[Decotron]

I think a few people could do with watching his performance as a central midfielder in his countries victory against Brazil a few months back.

Theres more to his game than we've seen so far. Let him settle, find his feet and judge him then

 

[REd FUn DevIl]

Has speed and can beat a player but his finishing is really bad.

Its a shame that most of our wingers arent a goal threat.

 

[RedRonaldo]

He hasn't done quite well yet but I'll give him half year before I judge.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Has speed and can beat a player but his finishing is really bad.

Its a shame that most of our wingers arent a goal threat.

IMO it's a bigger shame that their decision making is stil very erratic. Hopefully as the season progresses their making of good decisions will become more consistent.

 

[Ekeke]

Does anybody remember the reactions to Valencia during pre-season when we beat Valencia? We can be so fickle sometimes

Mine was : "He's playing against 2 terrible left backs".

An update on that. The left back he played against in the first half is having trouble getting into the team, because he's rubbish. The left back he played against in the second half is on loan to a club in the second division in Spain and he's terrible. He gave away a penalty last week trying to do a skill in his own box, fell over and put his hand on the ball.

 

[R.N7]

I think it's his decision making that is letting him down a bit. There's nothing wrong with his first touch or crossing. He just seem to lack that extra confidence when taking on players to put a cross in, which often leads to him stopping and choosing to play the safe pass or just trying to lift the ball in the box when it's already too late.

 

[MelvinYeo]

I've said it before but he needs to work on his crossing, his delivery is always very flat or to the edge of the area where it is impossible to score from a header anyway.

Otherwise his pace will be an asset when hes running at a full back which we haven't seen much of yet, mostly he's been receiving balls to feet where he looks unsure and can't use his pace to beat the full back as he's only got one trick

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Mine was : "He's playing against 2 terrible left backs".

An update on that. The left back he played against in the first half is having trouble getting into the team, because he's rubbish. The left back he played against in the second half is on loan to a club in the second division in Spain and he's terrible. He gave away a penalty last week trying to do a skill in his own box, fell over and put his hand on the ball.

You can only beat what's put in front of you.

It's not every day a winger has to go up against full-backs of the quality of Elokobi or Robert fecking Huth, eh?

I'm sick of slagging off Nani, to be honest but it's worth it to expose your double standards. You're a clown, you really are.

 

[Cold_Boy]

He is actually a lot better then what we have seen so far, right?

Hopefully.

But tbh I don't think he will improve mich cause he hasn't really shown hes capable of something extraordinary.

Will turn out to be a good player we mustn't expect a future world player of the year.

However lets give him a season.

 

[Ekeke]

You can only beat what's put in front of you.

It's not every day a winger has to go up against full-backs of the quality of Elokobi or Robert fecking Huth, eh?

I'm sick of slagging off Nani, to be honest but it's worth it to expose your double standards. You're a clown, you really are.

Elokobi and Robert fecking Huth would look like world beaters in La Liga.

The point is that Valencia's defence and in particular, their left backs are beyond awful. Antonio Valencia having a good game against them meant very little - this is a side who failed to keep a clean sheet for 17 matches last season and even the rest of the defenders look good compared to their left backs.

So people getting over excited about a friendly match where he's taking the piss against their left back, were getting way ahead of themselves.

I pointed this out at the time but, what do I know about Valencia?

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I think it's his decision making that is letting him down a bit. There's nothing wrong with his first touch or crossing. He just seem to lack that extra confidence when taking on players to put a cross in, which often leads to him stopping and choosing to play the safe pass or just trying to lift the ball in the box when it's already too late.

I agree. I think he is a bit too afraid to make a mistake at the minute. Resulting in him playing within himself. & not taking the kind of risks I've seen him do often at international level. I expect it to were off in a few months if he doesn't hit a poor patch.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Elokobi and Robert fecking Huth would look like world beaters in La Liga.

The point is that Valencia's defence and in particular, their left backs are beyond awful. Antonio Valencia having a good game against them meant very little - this is a side who failed to keep a clean sheet for 17 matches last season and even the rest of the defenders look good compared to their left backs.

So people getting over excited about a friendly match where he's taking the piss against their left back, were getting way ahead of themselves.

I pointed this out at the time but, what do I know about Valencia?

No. No they wouldn't.

And in answer to your last question. Same as you know about most things, it seems. feck all.

 

[Nani Nana]

I agree. I think he is a bit too afraid to make a mistake at the minute. Resulting in him playing within himself. & not taking the kind of risks I've seen him do often at international level. I expect it to were off in a few months if he doesn't hit a poor patch.

Indeed, when you watch him with Ecuador where he's like the star of the team and carries every single attack on his own, there's more than a gap with him against Arsenal having trouble deciding whether to pass backwards or backwards.

Overtime it will be wear off obviously, it's always difficult to move to United from a smaller outfit, and I think Valencia has the good persevering mentality. Luckily for him Ferguson seems to be willing to give him some time.

 

[gaffs]

I thought Valencia was a major factor in turning the game against City last week.

 

[Ekeke]

No. No they wouldn't.

Yes, they would. They'd both go straight into Valencia's first team. Same with Atletico Madrid. And they'd get games for Sevilla, Villarreal and so on. Its not like Barcelona or Real Madrid are strong in their positions either.

 

[gaffs]

This is so daft - people saying he cant cross and his first touch is shocking.

I wonder why Fergie would spend £16mil+ on a player that cant cross and a terrible first touch?

 

[Rado_N]

This is so daft - people saying he cant cross and his first touch is shocking.

I wonder why Fergie would spend £16mil+ on a player that cant cross and a terrible first touch?

People like Ekeke make their mind up and then don't really care what happens in a match, they pick up on one instance and exaggerate it to fit their preconceptions.

Valencia's first touch is very good and he can certainly cross it too. Two things need to happen: he needs to get used to playing for Manchester United, and the team need to get used to playing with him.

 

[gaffs]

Yes, they would. They'd both go straight into Valencia's first team. Same with Atletico Madrid. And they'd get games for Sevilla, Villarreal and so on. Its not like Barcelona or Real Madrid are strong in their positions either.

Fernando Navarro - Seville.
Antonio Lopez - Athletico
Capdevila - Villareal
Angel Lopez - Villareal

All quality fullbacks from those clubs mentioned, all capped for Spain, all far better than Elokobi and Huth.

 

[Ekeke]

People like Ekeke make their mind up and then don't really care what happens in a match, they pick up on one instance and exaggerate it to fit their preconceptions.

Valencia's first touch is very good and he can certainly cross it too. Two things need to happen: he needs to get used to playing for Manchester United, and the team need to get used to playing with him.

I havent even mentioned his first touch. But I might as well now you put my name and that in the same sentence.

Its not particularly good, but neither is Park's. And his crossing is average, he doesnt cross it to people rather he puts it in areas he thinks people should be in. So sometimes it looks a better cross than it is. Ronaldo used to do that when he was a teen, he used to put in some brilliant crosses... To places people were never really going to get to. With some luck Valencia will better himself there.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Indeed, when you watch him with Ecuador where he's like the star of the team and carries every single attack on his own, there's more than a gap with him against Arsenal having trouble deciding whether to pass backwards or backwards.

Overtime it will be wear off obviously, it's always difficult to move to United from a smaller outfit, and I think Valencia has the good persevering mentality. Luckily for him Ferguson seems to be willing to give him some time.

I toally agree. IMO he is one of the few wingers around blessed with a very good fist touch and a good cross. Which in a side like United cann be devstating once he settles. As someone said earlier in this thread he doesn't need many tricks. IMO he just needs is decision making to get back to where it should be.

 

[Nani Nana]

I toally agree. IMO he is one of the few wingers around blessed with a very good fist touch and a good cross. Which in a side like United cann be devstating once he settles. As someone said earlier in this thread he doesn't need many tricks. IMO he just needs is decision making to get back to where it should be.

Spot on. This thing with wingers required to have massive amounts of skills must be the biggest misconception about football entailed by Cristiano Ronaldo and Messi, both of whom are hardly wingers throughout a game.

Valencia has every single quality required for a winger to make it.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yes, they would. They'd both go straight into Valencia's first team. Same with Atletico Madrid. And they'd get games for Sevilla, Villarreal and so on. Its not like Barcelona or Real Madrid are strong in their positions either.

Since when is 'getting games' the same as looking like world beaters, you tit?

 

[Ekeke]

Fernando Navarro - Seville.
Antonio Lopez - Athletico
Capdevila - Villareal
Angel Lopez - Villareal

All quality fullbacks from those clubs mentioned, all capped for Spain, all far better than Elokobi and Huth.

Capdevila is a winger who was converted to left back. He's very good coming forward, not so great defending and he wont be around too much longer. Elokobi would get games, not least because Capdevila cant play all of them.

Antonio Lopez is second choice left back behind Pernia. In fact, despite being left footed (and having a brilliant first touch) he was played at right back for a prolonged period of last season. He also played there against Liverpool.

Navarro is and Lopez are alright, but Elokobi or any half decent left back would still get games as I said. I didnt claim he'd be first choice over them.

But he would have a strong case for being first choice at Valencia or Atletico Madrid. Did you watch the match between them last night? Two of the worst defences you will ever see. And thats been going on for more than a season now. A big nasty left back who gets stuck in would be a god send for either side, as would a giant like Huth to deal with crosses. God knows no player on the pitch knew how to deal with them last night.

 

[Ekeke]

Since when is 'getting games' the same as looking like world beaters, you tit?

Sarcasm. Your post deserved nothing more.

 

[R.N7]

Elokobi > Spains first choice left-back

 

[Ekeke]

Elokobi > Spains first choice left-back

Well, thats your opinion even if its an odd one. I disagree hence saying that he'd only get games because Capdevila is 31 and wont be able to play every game this season.

 

[Rado_N]

I havent even mentioned his first touch. But I might as well now you put my name and that in the same sentence.

1. I don't believe I said you did mention his first touch.

2. Your name was not in the same sentence as my mention of his touch. Or even the same paragraph, but carry on.

Its not particularly good, but neither is Park's. And his crossing is average, he doesnt cross it to people rather he puts it in areas he thinks people should be in. So sometimes it looks a better cross than it is. Ronaldo used to do that when he was a teen, he used to put in some brilliant crosses... To places people were never really going to get to. With some luck Valencia will better himself there.

Like I said, his cross is fine, he just needs to get used to us and we need to get used to him. I've said before that you seem have made your mind up about him, and your posts after matches seem to confirm it (I can't comment on the Stoke game as I've only seen the goals).

You also display outrageous double standards with him and Nani. I think the best thing I can do is just start ignoring you.

 

[R.N7]

Well, thats your opinion even if its an odd one. I disagree hence saying that he'd only get games because Capdevila is 31 and wont be able to play every game this season.

Judging by your posts that appears to be your opinion. Elokobi is a championship player and you're suggesting that he could walk in to almost every half decent La Liga side.

Hopefully.

But tbh I don't think he will improve mich cause he hasn't really shown hes capable of something extraordinary.

Will turn out to be a good player we mustn't expect a future world player of the year.

However lets give him a season.

He's never gonna be world player of the year, and we knew that before we signed him. You're seriously deluded if you think we bought him to be Ronaldo's successor.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

1. I don't believe I said you did mention his first touch.

2. Your name was not in the same sentence as my mention of his touch. Or even the same paragraph, but carry on.



Like I said, his cross is fine, he just needs to get used to us and we need to get used to him. I've said before that you seem have made your mind up about him, and your posts after matches seem to confirm it (I can't comment on the Stoke game as I've only seen the goals).

You also display outrageous double standards with him and Nani. I think the best thing I can do is just start ignoring you.

It's either that or call him Mcfeckwit repeatedly. I tend to adopt the latter approach but either will do.