Antoine Griezmann

Status
Not open for further replies.
This is the only way we can fit the best players into their best positions, anything else will be making compromises and making players play out of position. Yes, top class players are able to adapt but I prefer them in their natural positions as there is a better chance of them all hitting their talent ceilings at the same team, which drives the team to success.

There is the obvious difficulty here of finding a DM that is fit to do the work/cover of 2 players. Does such a DM player exist in world football at this moment in time? Mkhitaryan and Griezmann especially would have to do a lot of hard defensive work in this system, although Griezmann is well versed at working hard at Atlético so that's a positive.

------------------De Gea
Valencia --- Smalling --- Bailly --- Shaw
------------------------DM
----------------------------Pogba
Mkhitaryan------Griezmann-------Martial
--------------------Ibra

Obviously the positions aren't fixed and in the real world Mkhitaryan could be slightly deeper than shown here, which means Griezmann could pull across more to the RM. There would be alot of fluidity between the trio Griezmann, Mkhitaryan and Pogba. Martial will have to remain wide left to stretch the play and the formation will rely on Valencia getting forward a lot, which he has shown this season he is very capable of doing.
 
Last edited:
To all the people saying don't sign him, would you rather let a player of his quality go to city or Chelsea, it's just pure madness and the exact same crap I saw spouted in the bale thread a couple of years ago about him not being all that. When players of that quality become available you get them and then the top class managers (like mournho) make it work. Too many people have taken the euros as gospel that they can't play together and frankly international football is basically a different sport to the club game.
 
notcool said:
Ibra came on a free and Mkhitaryan only had only one year left on his contract. Suppose there are people who want to buy a top CB, a top DM and a back-up CM: how much do you think that would run us? £40m, £60m, £40m? That totals £140m. I don't think there's enough to buy Griezmann then.
Click to expand...

If we make the CL I reckon that Mourinho will have about £200 million to spend. If we don't make it, then probably about £150 million.
 
I wouldn't change the formation to get him in. Pogba looks a much better player in this formation, and our defence looks more solid.

Play Griezmann on the right for a season with Mkhi, Griez, Martial and Mata being the options for wide. When Zlatan goes the season after this he can be moved infield.
 
TrustInJanuzai said:
To all the people saying don't sign him, would you rather let a player of his quality go to city or Chelsea, it's just pure madness and the exact same crap I saw spouted in the bale thread a couple of years ago about him not being all that. When players of that quality become available you get them and then the top class managers (like mournho) make it work. Too many people have taken the euros as gospel that they can't play together and frankly international football is basically a different sport to the club game.
Click to expand...

I want us to sign him but the logic of signing a player to prevent someone else to have him is stupid.
 
JPRouve said:
I want us to sign him but the logic of signing a player to prevent someone else to have him is stupid.
Click to expand...
That wasn't my point at all, but only used as a way to highlight just how good a player he is, in my opinion he goes to city or Chelsea they win the league because he's that's good, that's the standard of player being dicussed here yet you have people mentioning names not fit to lace his boots.
 
TrustInJanuzai said:
That wasn't my point at all, but only used as a way to highlight just how good a player he is, in my opinion he goes to city or Chelsea they win the league because he's that's good, that's the standard of player being dicussed here yet you have people mentioning names not fit to lace his boots.
Click to expand...

A good football team isn't a simple collection of top players, as the Galacticos showed us. Football is a team sport where chemistry, synergy and balance are everything. So the level of a player in isolation is irrelevant, the only thing that matters is how he can fit in your team and make the whole team better than the sum of its parts.
 
How many people didn't want Pogba for the money? How many didn't want Ibra? The fact is this kind of player can only really be good for the team. I think in the long term, it threatens Zlatan more then anyone else but then again he might be fine being rotated. He's potentially a great player and if we cannot get Bale, then he's a pretty good alternative. We've seen this season a lack of quality in the final third - he would give us a new edge. It might be enough to get us back to the top. So how much is that worth? Teams are aware of him and while it could be seen as Galactico I think that's more a testament to his quality. He's the kind of player we'd be looking to sign at the top never mind fighting to get into the top 4.

The Madrid model - lacks respect. In fact the coach has to cater to Prima Donnas. That doesn't traditionally happen at United and that might make us more successful using this model. That said, big names have flopped in the past but he seems a confident lad and he would stand a great chance of being a hit at United.
 
JPRouve said:
A good football team isn't a simple collection of top players, as the Galacticos showed us. Football is a team sport where chemistry, synergy and balance are everything. So the level of a player in isolation is irrelevant, the only thing that matters is how he can fit in your team and make the whole team better than the sum of its parts.
Click to expand...
Yep again I don't disagree, but where I differ is that I believe Griezmann would fit the team perfectly. He has shown that he can play anywhere across the front 4 providing the system is fluid and the tactics are correctly set up which I trust mourinho to do because he's a top class manager. If mourinho wants him clearly he will have an idea of how to set up and as fans we need to trust in that.
 
TrustInJanuzai said:
To all the people saying don't sign him, would you rather let a player of his quality go to city or Chelsea, it's just pure madness and the exact same crap I saw spouted in the bale thread a couple of years ago about him not being all that. When players of that quality become available you get them and then the top class managers (like mournho) make it work. Too many people have taken the euros as gospel that they can't play together and frankly international football is basically a different sport to the club game.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't care where Griezmann went if not signing him meamt we signed other players who fit our team better and improved us more.
 
Only a fool would force Pogba to play in a midfield 2 to make room for another player ( unless it's Messi ).
 
Fridge chutney said:
I really think Griezmann is much more versatile than we are giving him credit.

Also, using France as an example to say they can't work together... Really? Firstly, they made the final, hardly terrible. Pogba was played deep, in a role he was not used to compared to where he played at Juve. He was underwhelmed, but I don't see his role at United changing at all, regardless of who we buy. Griezmann honestly looked burnt out after a long season. To say they can't work together based on a few French matches is madness in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Versatility isn't a particularly big issue here though is it? The question at hand is whether both can play optimally in the same side with no sacrifice or compromise made to their games, and if they can't, then why on earth would you pay an exorbitant fee for Griezmann instead of getting a complementary player in who would no doubt cost a small fortune himself?

You don't want versatility, per se, out of an £80m+ player; you want brilliance and world class performance in their acclaimed position, and you rarely expect to see them having to make sacrifices to their game outside of severe injury crises or in a down-to-ten-men-scenario, or to close out an extremely tight game ala what Zlatan has been doing dropping into midfield for the last 10 minutes or so of tense and nervy games.

This thing about Griezmann's versatility is also overstated and overplayed. He's shone as an up-and-comer on the left side of the attack, and then rose to prominence and the status he has now as a support striker. He pops up in other positions from time-to-time, but he has a natural affinity to his optimal role and drifts into it irrespective of how he's been lined up. All these formations and suggestions of how they can be put into the same team gloss over this.

re. France. Where has this notion that it's a handful of matches come from? They have been playing together since 2014 and have almost a full Premiership league campaign of games together! It is not a small sample size. They're both established stars now who have a preferred position on the pitch in which they thrive. Why aren't the French contingent on the site overly keen on this transfer and at pains to point out that it's Deschamps the incompetent who is not getting the best out of both of them?

Clas Sified said:
Not wanting to sign Griezmann because he doesn't fit into the current set-up is ridiculously short sighted. Griezmann is relatively versatile, still pretty young and is a marketer's wet dream, and to not sign him would be absolute madness. People have to remember, Ibra will be gone in a year and a half and if we don't sign Griezmann, we'll have to look for another top forward then.
Click to expand...
So you're suggesting we buy him now, dick around with his positioning for a bit until Ibrahimovic leaves, and then try and make something else work? I just can't get my head around this notion of buying an established world class player and then messing him about. Why should Griezmann himself put up with that?

NYAS said:
Really, once you get over the tedious groupthink on here that says that Pogba can only play in a three-man midfield, and realize that actually, all he needs in a 2 is his midfield partner being a holding passer rather than Marouane fecking Fellaini then it becomes easy to see how Griezmann would work.
Click to expand...
What groupthink is that? What evidence is there to the contrary? And you're asking for a midfield partner in a 2 that doesn't exist, given he needs to have the passing ability of Carrick or above and the work-rate of two players and the studiousness of Makelele to cover for the lackadaisical side of Pogba's defensive game. Verratti's about your best hope to get all of that out of one player, and even he can't cover a midfield by himself.
Judas said:
The team will be built around Griezmann and Pogba, I have no doubt he'll be a fantastic signing, and Jose knows exactly what he's doing. He wanted them both at Chelsea, he's clearly been plotting having them in the same team for years.
Click to expand...
To this point in time, you might as well call it the Pogmann Paradox to get the best out of both them. Perhaps Mourinho is the man to solve it, but there really ought not be a surprise if it goes belly up. It feels strange to be talking about a superstar player who, a lot of people, myself included, think has more chance of not working out for us (with Pogba) than will.
 
POF said:
This "we can't fit him into our system unless we play him wide or play a diamond" is really nonsense.

Firstly, United has played 4-2-3-1 as the system more than any other this season - with a support striker. They have moved to 4-3-3 of late but Carrick is 100 years old so that system won't last forever in its current form. Although the team is playing better as late, they still lack firepower and struggle to break teams down.

With either of those systems, whoever plays nominally on the right is given significant freedom when the team is attacking. Valencia provides the width on the right hand side and whether it is Mata, Mkhitaryan or Lingard who has the right sided role in the 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3, they are rarely posted wide on the right.

Griezmann would also give the option of playing 2 up front (it might be nice to have the option of changing the formation occasionally) and should link really well with Ibra.

As for "go for Sanchez instead". RVP to United was a huge shock at the time but whatever about back then, there is zero chance Arsenal will sell their best player to United while Mourinho is manager.
Click to expand...

The reason United isn't playing 4231 anymore is cause it wasn't working with the players we have, particularly with Pogba. Moving to 433 was to accommodate him mostly and it worked, we look so much better. Having 2 upfront means either diamond or going back to midfield two which will again limit Pogba. We should be building around him and not the other way around. Reason we lack firepower was that we basically didn't have almost any contribution from our wide forwards. The moment Mkhi recovered and started playing well we looked different. Martial getting back in form (as he looks to be in the last few matches) will add another dimension to our attack. With those two supporting Zlatan I am not affraid about our firepower, especially once Pogba starts netting more and hitting the post less.

I agree Sanchez is not as likely, all I pointed out that if he was an option we should go all in for him, rather than Griezmann. As for his availability...if he doesn't sign new contract Arsenal will be forced to sell and we would be able to offer him more than any other team most likely. On top of that Arsenal might miss out on top 4 which would make Sanchez departure assured. Sanchez would fit us perfectly.

podurban2 said:
Well why would he have to lead the line, isn't that what we hope Rashford or Martial will eventually do?
Click to expand...

Next season no, Zlatan still will (although in reduced capacity I presume). Either way, Griezmann will either play 2nd striker which will force us to play midfield two which in turn limits Pogba, or he will play wide which isn't his best position. If we plan to get a player to play wide forward...why not go for someone else who can play the role better?

Pexbo said:
He's definitely not a Mourinho striker that's for sure.

I really wouldn't be shocked to see us go for Lukaku after Zlatan with Griezmann behind him and a destroyer behind Pogba.

Zlatan/Lukaku
Martial - Griezmann - Mkhitaryan
Pogba ---------
----- Bakayoko
​
Lukaku could be deadly with that supply and equally would be a real handful for any defense having to deal with all those pacey technical players around him.


Bakayoko could mop things up while Pogba marauds around doing what he does best.
Click to expand...

Problem is...are we willing to risk trying Pogba in midfield two again, regardless who he will be partnered with? What if it doesn't work out? You would have a bad choice then, you either limit Pogba or you shunt Griezmann wide limiting him instead...and you bench Martial or Mkhi. Also Bakayoko wouldn't be the best option for destroyer in midfield two position. His best position is what Herrera plays now, being maybe just a bit more defensive.

In my eyes this entire possible transfer being a success hinges on ability of Griezmann to effectively play position Martial plays now.

JPRouve said:
To be fair, you don't know that. Why wouldn't he lead the line?
Click to expand...

He very rarely leads the line for Simeone. Only games he was doing that was those few games against likes of Real where Simeone had him alone upfront and played counters. He will never lead the line for Jose, that's not type of attacker he puts alone upfront. Regardless, his best position is SS and we have Zlatan for one more year at least. If he is signed it's either for SS or to play wide left. First option forces to play diamond or midfield two, other option means Martial is benched and it's not where Griezmann is at his best as well.
 
Fortitude said:
Versatility isn't a particularly big issue here though is it? The question at hand is whether both can play optimally in the same side with no sacrifice or compromise made to their games, and if they can't, then why on earth would you pay an exorbitant fee for Griezmann instead of getting a complementary player in who would no doubt cost a small fortune himself?

You don't want versatility, per se, out of an £80m+ player; you want brilliance and world class performance in their acclaimed position, and you rarely expect to see them having to make sacrifices to their game outside of severe injury crises or in a down-to-ten-men-scenario, or to close out an extremely tight game ala what Zlatan has been doing dropping into midfield for the last 10 minutes or so of tense and nervy games.

This thing about Griezmann's versatility is also overstated and overplayed. He's shone as an up-and-comer on the left side of the attack, and then rose to prominence and the status he has now as a support striker. He pops up in other positions from time-to-time, but he has a natural affinity to his optimal role and drifts into it irrespective of how he's been lined up. All these formations and suggestions of how they can be put into the same team gloss over this.

re. France. Where has this notion that it's a handful of matches come from? They have been playing together since 2014 and have almost a full Premiership league campaign of games together! It is not a small sample size. They're both established stars now who have a preferred position on the pitch in which they thrive. Why aren't the French contingent on the site overly keen on this transfer and at pains to point out that it's Deschamps the incompetent who is not getting the best out of both of them?


So you're suggesting we buy him now, dick around with his positioning for a bit until Ibrahimovic leaves, and then try and make something else work? I just can't get my head around this notion of buying an established world class player and then messing him about. Why should Griezmann himself put up with that?


What groupthink is that? What evidence is there to the contrary? And you're asking for a midfield partner in a 2 that doesn't exist, given he needs to have the passing ability of Carrick or above and the work-rate of two players and the studiousness of Makelele to cover for the lackadaisical side of Pogba's defensive game. Verratti's about your best hope to get all of that out of one player, and even he can't cover a midfield by himself.

To this point in time, you might as well call it the Pogmann Paradox to get the best out of both them. Perhaps Mourinho is the man to solve it, but there really ought not be a surprise if it goes belly up. It feels strange to be talking about a superstar player who, a lot of people, myself included, think has more chance of not working out for us (with Pogba) than will.
Click to expand...
Yes, and France made the euro final didn't they. Pretty successful if you ask me, based on their limited time together so far.

Griezmann and Pogba are not incompatible based on any evidence I've seen. Completely different positions, no reason why they both can't continue to be world class in the same team.
 
Fridge chutney said:
Yes, and France made the euro final didn't they. Pretty successful if you ask me, based on their limited time together so far.

Griezmann and Pogba are not incompatible based on any evidence I've seen. Completely different positions, no reason why they both can't continue to be world class in the same team.
Click to expand...
What kind of thinking is that?

France got to the final, therefore nothing is wrong?

Pogba and Griezmann have played almost 40 games together for France over a period of almost 3 years. That is not a limited amount of time.

If you watched either for club, then you know they're not getting anywhere near that at the same time since they've played for France. That points towards a problem.
 
Fridge chutney said:
Yes, and France made the euro final didn't they. Pretty successful if you ask me, based on their limited time together so far.

Griezmann and Pogba are not incompatible based on any evidence I've seen. Completely different positions, no reason why they both can't continue to be world class in the same team.
Click to expand...

I totally agree the France argument is way over cooked. Personally I thought other players were being accommodated more (Payet). I can see nothing wrong with 433 with Griezman occupying one of the 3 up top. I also think people are doing a disservice to Pogba saying he can only play in a midfield 3 as I think that's more apt for Carrick Fellaini and (less so) Herrera at this time than Pogba.
Pair him with the right type of partner then I'd make my assumption afterwards but I think that kid would excel in a two or a three he's that good.
 
Fridge chutney said:
Yes, and France made the euro final didn't they. Pretty successful if you ask me, based on their limited time together so far.

Griezmann and Pogba are not incompatible based on any evidence I've seen. Completely different positions, no reason why they both can't continue to be world class in the same team.
Click to expand...

And Pogba isn't world class for France while Griezmann is.
 
Lawman said:
I totally agree the France argument is way over cooked. Personally I thought other players were being accommodated more (Payet). I can see nothing wrong with 433 with Griezman occupying one of the 3 up top. I also think people are doing a disservice to Pogba saying he can only play in a midfield 3 as I think that's more apt for Carrick Fellaini and (less so) Herrera at this time than Pogba.
Pair him with the right type of partner then I'd make my assumption afterwards but I think that kid would excel in a two or a three he's that good.
Click to expand...
If he was one of the front 3 that would force out one of Martial Ibra Mkhi, presumably Martial. Doesn't seem necessary. And he's good but not at his best when played wide.
 
OohAahMartial said:
If he was one of the front 3 that would force out one of Martial Ibra Mkhi, presumably Martial. Doesn't seem necessary. And he's good but not at his best when played wide.
Click to expand...

Zlatan will be coming up for 36 I think he'd be the one at most threat
 
Zlatan will extend his contract to next year. He's played almost every game this season and doubt he would become a bench player for the majority of games next season.
 
Football is not as simple as picking a starting 11.

Griezmann is a world class player and the "team" needs as many world class players as we can get to be winning the League and CL again.

Anyone hesitating with this transfer....simply remove Zlatan and give one of Martial, Miki, Rashford a long term injury and ask the remaining players to win the CL and PL.

Then you'd be praying for Griezmann to come and save the team.
 
JPRouve said:
I want us to sign him but the logic of signing a player to prevent someone else to have him is stupid.
Click to expand...

Chelsea's entire loanee register is a testament to that. Unfortunately when high demand players become available, particularly youth, it is common to purchase them purely to prevent your rivals getting them.
 
RuudTom83 said:
Football is not as simple as picking a starting 11.

Griezmann is a world class player and the "team" needs as many world class players as we can get to be winning the League and CL again.

Anyone hesitating with this transfer....simply remove Zlatan and give one of Martial, Miki, Rashford a long term injury and ask the remaining players to win the CL and PL.

Then you'd be praying for Griezmann to come and save the team.
Click to expand...

Your first sentence doesn't match with the rest of your post.
 
Re. some posts in this thread - you sure as hell don't pass up Griezmann to spare the feelings of a 35 year old striker
 
Tiber said:
Re. some posts in this thread - you sure as hell don't pass up Griezmann to spare the feelings of a 35 year old striker
Click to expand...

Yea that is how I feel, if you can get Griezmann you don't sniff your nose at that.

I was thinking if we got him than Mourinho can expirment with the front 3/4 a bit. Griezmann is pure quality he can play from the wings but his best position is as a central striker. You look for the best mix in terms of what works and than go with that no matter who will end up on the bench.

It can work as a 4-4-2 with Griezmann as second striker beside Zlatan

It can work as 4-2-1-3 with Griezmann as 10 behind Zlatan

It can work as 4-3-3 with Griezmann as a left or right inside forward and Zlatan as central striker

It can work as 4-3-3 with Griezmann as central striker flanked by Martial and Mkhitaryan

And in certain games and surely overtime it can change or evolve

Point is Griezmann is quality and brings guaranteed goals. He is bloody clinical infront of goal and his running lines are brilliant. If our current set up with a Pogba based 3 man midfield and Zlatan upfront would score goals for fun game in game out, I could understand not wanting to break that up, even for someone like Griezmann but the thing is we aren't scoring for fun and our attack is something we need to improve on. Also Zlatan is 35 already, he is not the future of Manchester United, he is supposed to bridge the gap upfront until we have someone better and younger to take the place in the likes of Rashford or Griezmann. For me there is absolutley no valid reason why we shouldn't go after Griezmann if we can afford it.
 
Tiber said:
Re. some posts in this thread - you sure as hell don't pass up Griezmann to spare the feelings of a 35 year old striker
Click to expand...
I don't get it. There's also every possibility Zlatan will rapidly decline after the summer. And then people on here will instead have a nervous breakdown.
 
Having Griezmann and Pogba in the team means literally having to set the whole team up to fit these two players. France failed to do this in the Euros and eventually paid the price (with the talent in their squad they really should have won it).

We've finally found some kind of a balance with Zlatan, Pogba, Herrera, and the wide forwards. We're just starting to reap the rewards and gaining momentum. Am really not sure we want to mess around anytime soon trying to fit in another "marquee" player.
 
It's a testament to where Jose has lifted the confidence and belief that this transfer is actually a debate.
 
fatboy said:
Having Griezmann and Pogba in the team means literally having to set the whole team up to fit these two players. France failed to do this in the Euros and eventually paid the price (with the talent in their squad they really should have won it).

We've finally found some kind of a balance with Zlatan, Pogba, Herrera, and the wide forwards. We're just starting to reap the rewards and gaining momentum. Am really not sure we want to mess around anytime soon trying to fit in another "marquee" player.
Click to expand...
I actually think the French Euro debacle was due to trying to accommodate not just Pogba and Griezmann, but also Payet and Sissoko. IMO it was Payet who was intruding into Pogba's areas.
 
MDFC Manager said:
I actually think the French Euro debacle was due to trying to accommodate not just Pogba and Griezmann, but also Payet and Sissoko. IMO it was Payet who was intruding into Pogba's areas.
Click to expand...

and pairing Pogba with Kante or Matuidi, non of whom particularly hold their position well.
 
I think people would be surprised with how good Griezmann would be on the right, especially if Rashford become the 9 in 2018 and is happy to drift wide at times. I think at least one of and maybe both Mata and Rooney would be sold, with Lingard maybe keeping his place in the squad as he would be happy to be 4th choice on the wings and really 5th with Rashford getting time when Ibra is gobbling up the 9 minutes.

When we're 4-3-3, one of Mkhitaryan, Griezmann or Martial would rest and come on with 30 to go to terrorize tiring defences. And against worse teams maybe more 4-2-3-1 with Griezmann as the 10 behind Ibra/Rashford with

If we have a ruthless, expensive summer like last year or Chelsea's in 2014 that brought them a title, we'll sign Griezmann, a CM to rotate with Herrera and Pogba, a DM to replace Carrick and an LCB who can pass.
 
Blind had griezman 3rd for ballon d'or. Woody is trying everything now isn't he:drool:
Players usually choose own of their own teammates as 3rd to be nice, for example Robben choose Lewandowski as 3rd choice.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.