Martial has been starting not just because of his good form, but also because he's giving more of what manager wants from his wingers. You show me more of what i like and i'll reward you with more chances. This was evident from last few matches and from the post match comments from Jose. What's frustrating is why this has taken over two seasons to come to this.
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 38
- Goals
- 12
- Assists
- 3
- Yellow cards
- 2
- Status
Martial has been starting not just because of his good form, but also because he's giving more of what manager wants from his wingers. You show me more of what i like and i'll reward you with more chances. This was evident from last few matches and from the post match comments from Jose. What's frustrating is why this has taken over two seasons to come to this.
Penalty incident reminded me of Robben's glory days. As we say in Holland, like a dying swan.
Cases like these should be both a pen amd a yellow for diving, because they're both justified imo.
Cases like these should be both a pen amd a yellow for diving, because they're both justified imo.
I thought the players didnt want to play for Mourinho?
To me, that's a completely made up fan perspective whether we want to argue they want or not to play for him. Players 99% of the time play for themselves, for the fans, for their own glory and that of their team, no professional player sets out to play a bad game to stick it to the manager. The managers can come and go, but players at the professional level are usually pretty damn self-motivated. I think the only thing that's changed is that Jose is desperate now and actually making sensible decisions like finally dropping Lukaku or bringing back Martial where he's always belonged before Jose screwed up integrating Martial. There's been times and places where he was that kind of manager for certain teams (Chelsea & Inter), but that's clearly not the case here.
On a side note, it's funny to see some of the names that used to trash Martial at every turn now try to creep back in the conversation and veer it towards Jose's brilliance in getting the best out of Martial. You're not fooling anybody, fellas.
Taking-off duck seems more apt.
Teasing from Martial....I feel like he's upped his performance, doing what he's clearly capable of doing to put himself in the shopping window.
If he rejects the next contract offer and isn't sold in Jan he'll disappear by the end of Feb.
If he rejects the next contract offer and isn't sold in Jan he'll disappear by the end of Feb.
Excellent martial analysis on Mnf . Such a confusing player , his off the ball play is really poor . He would benefit so much from a proper coach like Pep
Can someone post Gary Neville’s analysis of Martial on tonight’s MNF please. Because he’s basically just described what I was trying to say. If he improves this area of his game he could genuinely be world class IMO
Was a good analysis but he contradicted himself a bit by saying Sterling's benefited from Pep's coaching whereas Martial's lack of runs are an individual issue.
They also ignored how we as a collective body just cover such less ground than Liverpool, Chelsea, and City.
Martial was a major outlier in those stats but it’s still something to consider.
Martial was a major outlier in those stats but it’s still something to consider.
I missed it, would appreciate if someone posted it as well.
Gary Neville spot on there and a great piece of analysis
Bits of it:
Also for those interested GNev ended by saying that United should definitely be investing in him and that his weakness are ones that can be worked on. I dont like how GNev is so protective of Jose though, it is obvious to anyone that a good manager could transform Martial
They cut off the bit about his stats (goals and assists) extrapolated over a full season being comparable to Mane and Hazard. Will post that bit if I can find it but they seem to have mainly tweeted the negative rather than the positives.
Yeah that was a very good break down. They are right about that off the ball movement, for one as fast as he is that run inbetween the fullback and CB has to improve. It’s rare he ever makes that run and he tends to just make a run on the outside of the fullback holding the width. Really just needs someone to coach him, drill that in to him and allow the risk of him being caught out positionally if it breaks down.
I do think him staying as wide as he does and sort of hanging back is by instruction, not over committing to the attack, it’s Jose 101. Those running stats are a bit weird but when our team is one of the lowest in the league it’s not unexpected and again part of the tactics.
I do think him staying as wide as he does and sort of hanging back is by instruction, not over committing to the attack, it’s Jose 101. Those running stats are a bit weird but when our team is one of the lowest in the league it’s not unexpected and again part of the tactics.
Rashford is also on that list tbf and they play the same position.
With 7 fewer goals and 2 fewer assists in around same time played.
I was talking about distance covered.
Ignore that. Thought you had quoted me.
He's protective of all managers that being said the lack of attacking coaching at the club is obviously what's holding Martial back
Too bad it took this long for Martial to get Jose's trust, I credit Martial more then Jose though. If Jose had taken a different route we might have built our attack around him. This would have meant no Sanchez deal but for sure our RW would have been sorted, perhaps we wouldn't have gone with Lukaku either but that's just IMO.
This parallel reality/world theory would mean our attack would have been on another level to what we are seeing game in game out. Having sorted our attack let's say 2 years ago would also mean that Pogba would have fixed attacking partners to work with form that period up to this day, raising the understanding between them and making us more united(in every sense of the word). That also would have left us space, as in not buying unnecessary attacking players, to focus on selling deadwood and work on sorting our defense, especially the link up/distribution end to end.
What I'm trying to say is its a shame really that we've done rounds and rounds with players, miss after miss, and we ended up practically where we started off(Jose era). If Jose managed to save his job thanks to Martial that would be movie worthy, a tragicomedy from my perspective.
This parallel reality/world theory would mean our attack would have been on another level to what we are seeing game in game out. Having sorted our attack let's say 2 years ago would also mean that Pogba would have fixed attacking partners to work with form that period up to this day, raising the understanding between them and making us more united(in every sense of the word). That also would have left us space, as in not buying unnecessary attacking players, to focus on selling deadwood and work on sorting our defense, especially the link up/distribution end to end.
What I'm trying to say is its a shame really that we've done rounds and rounds with players, miss after miss, and we ended up practically where we started off(Jose era). If Jose managed to save his job thanks to Martial that would be movie worthy, a tragicomedy from my perspective.
I'm watching that analysis and constantly saying to myself "This is what he should be being coached on!"
Last few games his work rate going back has got better and better. Jose even went on to the pitch to laud it. So he's got that into him.
Now teach him the runs to make, like Pep did with Sterling. Because Pogba, Mata and Fred can find those passes easily. Just teach him how to make the runs.
Last few games his work rate going back has got better and better. Jose even went on to the pitch to laud it. So he's got that into him.
Now teach him the runs to make, like Pep did with Sterling. Because Pogba, Mata and Fred can find those passes easily. Just teach him how to make the runs.
Mourinho actually cannot. We just hope we appoint a decent coach next year.
Not a contradiction at all. Sterling had fantastic movement at Liverpool. Guardiola utilises Sterling's movement very well, any improvment in that aspect is marginal since he would always get behind defences in his Liverpool days (remember when he missed 3 1v1s against De Gea using his movement
).Genuinely impressive stats if you think he's been in and out of favour (many of those minutes coming in spurts with no consistent run of games) and that he's playing in by far the most defensive of the top teams. Surprised he's ahead of Willian and level with Mane tbh.
Hardly groundbreaking. I made a thread about his movement three months in his first season. It’s generally poor. Unfortunately, Mourinho has done little to improve this in the way we have watched Guardiola with players like Sterling and Sane.
Martial generally scores when he starts regularly. Again, it’s infuriating that we’ve dicked him around as a result of Sanchez’s arrival.
Martial was and is our best attacking player. He’s guaranteed output, even in a shitty team.
Martial generally scores when he starts regularly. Again, it’s infuriating that we’ve dicked him around as a result of Sanchez’s arrival.
Martial was and is our best attacking player. He’s guaranteed output, even in a shitty team.
Now put that In an attack that actually works like City/Liverpool. He'd be up there with Sterling no problem.
It's no surprise that he was at his best under LVG who had a ridged system and kept it simple for him how to play. Stay wide and high, get the ball to feet and attack your man or cut inside and shoot.
The fact they're looking at Martial's weaknesses angers me. He's scored important goals in the last couple of games, I'm sure he'll get better with time. Why when it comes to Rashford they can only blame Mourinho and say he should leave? But Martial even when he's doing well they're talking about his weanesses....
That literally has nothing to do with what we are talking about. You said martial had improved under Mourninho this actually proves there has been no improvement and that he is literally playing at the same level and doing the same things he has been doing since he got here. Actually just read that his distance per 90 minutes in his first season was at 10.1km which is much higher than it is now. So he has actually regressed in that under jose. The Everton video I showed you in his first season shows exactly what I was talking about, watch that compared to yesterday they were literally the same in terms of movement and play on the ball.
Neville called out his lack of movement off the ball but to say it isn't down to the coaching is wrong. United are one of the teams that run the least in the PL of course martial's running stats are going to be less than the others. Him not getting into the French squad has nothing to do with it. They choose the players that were playing and martial wasn't playing.
Because they are biased. I remember Gary Neville's post about about how he could say anything he likes about Martial and excuse Rashford because Martial was bought, something along that line.
Matic on Martial
"“Anthony is a great player and he needs to understand that,"“ said Matic after Sunday's match. ”"He needs more confidence. He is still young and I think if he continues to score he will get that.
"“If he reaches his top level he can be one of the best players in the league for sure."“"""
"“Sometimes I don’t think he understands how good he is. He is quick, he is good with the ball, he can run. He has everything that a Manchester United football player needs. Sometimes I don’t think he understands that."
"“If I had his ability with the ball and I was as quick as him then I wouldn’t pass to anyone and I would score every game!"
"“To be serious, he does need more confidence and this comes with results. When you don’t have results it is very difficult for players to have that high confidence."
"“If we can get results over the next few games and improve as a team he will show that he is very important for us. "
"“The manager speaks with him about it. I have told him once! But he is a great person and a great guy and I am happy for him that he is scoring. It is great. "
"“The quality is there, confidence is there now and he just needs to be more consistent. I am glad we have him in the team."
"“In football and in life you have difficult times and you have to get back on track and that is exactly what he is doing.”"
"“Anthony is a great player and he needs to understand that,"“ said Matic after Sunday's match. ”"He needs more confidence. He is still young and I think if he continues to score he will get that.
"“If he reaches his top level he can be one of the best players in the league for sure."“"""
"“Sometimes I don’t think he understands how good he is. He is quick, he is good with the ball, he can run. He has everything that a Manchester United football player needs. Sometimes I don’t think he understands that."
"“If I had his ability with the ball and I was as quick as him then I wouldn’t pass to anyone and I would score every game!"
"“To be serious, he does need more confidence and this comes with results. When you don’t have results it is very difficult for players to have that high confidence."
"“If we can get results over the next few games and improve as a team he will show that he is very important for us. "
"“The manager speaks with him about it. I have told him once! But he is a great person and a great guy and I am happy for him that he is scoring. It is great. "
"“The quality is there, confidence is there now and he just needs to be more consistent. I am glad we have him in the team."
"“In football and in life you have difficult times and you have to get back on track and that is exactly what he is doing.”"
Iv agreed with you a lot recently & this is no different.
Martial is someone with some natural set talents and he tries to use this consistently during any match. He does have many areas he can improve in but before we can complain about that - we must first ask if he is being managed to get the best out of his ready made ability with a level of consistency.
Is he positioned well? Is he able to play to his advantages? There was a post here about how he can be quite for 70 mins of game; only to suddenly come up with the goods through one or 2 moves & attacks.
That ability needs to be utilised by the coaches to enable him to have those good 20 min periods more often in a game.
Once that is done - not only will it improve his output levels, it will be easier for the coaches to improve his the rest of his skills he needs improving in.
It's one thing saying that he needs to make forward runs more - which he does - but is playing him on the touchline to get crosses in to a target man the best place for him to be making them runs. It might be that making the runs isn't what gets the best out pf him & he could be more suited to playing as a deeper place CF that tries to take the CB on only for him to shift the ball to the right or left of him like a false 9 might do who tends to fall back from being the furthest forward striker. I was saying the same thing about his defensive game - is it best for him to concentrate on falling back to provide support to a LB or would it be better for him to add pressure forward with high pressure on the CB?
He's done well to comeback twice now under a manager who was very adamant on martial role not being a forward. We just have to wait & see how he develops.
One thing they overlook with Martial is his immense importance to our attacking play. We have no other player playing in our front 3 that can ever put opposition defenders on the backfoot for the whole game. I don't care how many goals/assists he scores or what he does off the ball - he is absolutely terrorizing when he does have the ball. That is very difficult to defend against and it allows your whole team to confidently take the game to the oppositions 3rd. The fact that he's now smashing goals in like Ronaldo used to do for us is an absolute bonus. Let the boy play his football. He's only 22. He hasn't even realized how talented he actually is.
This is the important part & a manager who uses him to do this & open up space for others is going to get the best out of him. Right now - all his attacking abilities are Brigg utilised as an individual on the pitch alongside 10 other individuals. If we build a team understanding attack that revolves around martial ability to put the defence on the back foot - that would be more beneficial to us.
Absolutely. Martial is one of the most effective players at what he does and the job of the coaching staff is to put him in the position which allows him to utilize his skillset more. Playing with a target man who can't hold the ball up and two makeshift wingers is totally pointless and especially because I don't see Martial as an explosive winger that will run up and down the touchline like douglas costa or William for example but plays more in short spells and doesn't need to be involved like you said in the whole game. There's no point comparing him with speedsters like Mane, Sane etc because they're different players totally. He can change the game in one or two moments. What LVG did with I liked because he made martial the focal point of the attack and gave him the license in the final third to affect the game either by running at his fullback to the byline and cutting back or cutting inside for the curling shot. We seen him use this shot twice in the last two weeks. These moments would happen maybe 5/6 times a game and martial would be decisive with 1 or 2. This needs to happen more with mourinho.
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I think Martial's biggest issue is his stamina. It's not his off-the-ball runs, or his defensive work, or his decision-making, I think his stamina is a legitimate concern, and something he's addressed himself as a source of his inconsistency. He's improved already, but he's not up to the standard of a player that wants to become a star. If he improve his endurance, he won't have to consider when to use his energy or not quite as much. I think his lack of off-ball movement has some credibility but it's massively overstated as he does runs throughout the games, but outside of Pogba no one else on the team rewards those runs, the movement in general for the team itself is pretty terrible.
Like some others have said, I don't see him ever becoming this winger that goes up and down all game, but if he gets his endurance to the level of a true professional, and the team as a whole develops a better passing game to reward those in-between the lines runs, he will be a monster in the league. His talent is such that even without that, if he gets consistent playing time he's still putting an output that can rival Hazard who's not a stats stuffer by any means, but he's a pretty damn good player to be keeping up with.
Like some others have said, I don't see him ever becoming this winger that goes up and down all game, but if he gets his endurance to the level of a true professional, and the team as a whole develops a better passing game to reward those in-between the lines runs, he will be a monster in the league. His talent is such that even without that, if he gets consistent playing time he's still putting an output that can rival Hazard who's not a stats stuffer by any means, but he's a pretty damn good player to be keeping up with.
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