[Tyinde]

At this point I think we should be looking to just improve him as much as we can attacking wise and getting him defensively conditioned positionally seems lost cause.

He is still ok on the pressing bit but if you ask him to do a disciplined job defensively he struggles.

I really would like to see how he would do under a Guardiola type more attacking coach. Would he take the next.level like a Sterling?

Pep's tactic requiers far more discipline and workrate than JM. Tik-tak is not a total freestyle "do whatever you like thing", tik-tia is a extremly high teamwork performance.

 

[ivaldo]

Of course it is. He tried a few tricks and flicks..lost the ball and mehhhhhhh

Righteo. And there was me expecting to you see realism here! I'm by no means his biggest fan, but that's just the standard "kick him while he's down" approach that we see all too often here when it comes to our own players.

 

[ivaldo]

I doubt Zidane or whoever it is will purposely let Watford have the ball so everyone can defend before 'attacking' if that's what you call it.

The next manager will hopefully control the game from start to finish - not purposely hold us back.

Great input for the Martial thread.

Enjoy your fairytale. There's not a single manager in history that can accomplish this.

 

[Moriarty]

With Rashford out, he's got the chance to show Jose what he can do out on the left. He didn't have much time to get into the game today so I won't judge him on that. Needs to start and play like he wants to be here.

 

[spiriticon]

Righteo. And there was me expecting to you see realism here! I'm by no means his biggest fan, but that's just the standard "kick him while he's down" approach that we see all too often here when it comes to our own players.

Not kicking him. Just being blunt with what I observe.

We can find 100 excuses for his apathy but if he doesn't sort out his 'off the ball game' he'll never be a world class footballer. Nobody's perfect, but the effort must be there to at least have a go at improving his weaknesses.

 

[Ban]

I doubt Zidane or whoever it is will purposely let Watford have the ball so everyone can defend before 'attacking' if that's what you call it.

The next manager will hopefully control the game from start to finish - not purposely hold us back.

Stop wumming ffs.

 

[Festive Sandvich]

I'm a big Martial fan, but he was poor again today when he came on. Just wish he would come off the bench all guns blazing and at least give Jose some of the effort he's looking for even if he doesn't produce much. Didn't look terribly interested today which is very worrying.

 

[ivaldo]

Not kicking him. Just being blunt with what I observe.

We can find 100 excuses for his apathy but if he doesn't sort out his 'off the ball game' he'll never be a world class footballer. Nobody's perfect, but the effort must be there to at least have a go at improving his weaknesses.

And I agree, on the whole. My past posts on him reflect this, but not really seeing it today. Wasn't terrible, wasn't great.

 

[Møllemanden]

What is the problem with Martial? If you look at Sanchez, he can lose the ball 20 times during a match and still start the next. Martial looks deprieved of confidence and always looks to pass the ball instead of taking on defenders. Just f*cking run at the defenders, Tony!

 

[RMD83]

Once again martial didn’t give a cameo that warranted being considered to start in the next game. Despite the love in and possible blind faith in his ability I’m afraid on far more occasions than not he plays look someone that deserves to be on the bench.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Awful. Failed to even bother supporting his team mates at times.

 

[SAFMUTD]

He just doesnt give a f*ck, effortless, no passion, just let him go what a waste of time

 

[Handsome Devil]

He never forgets that. As if it's not obvious from the posts.
Jose is at fault for the climate changes too.

Will only disagree with you on one point here, according to the blurb on here, he is a she. Not that it makes any difference. The intensity of hatred towards Jose is scarily intense though.

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

Very talented young player who is currently only good enough for the bench of one of the richest clubs in the world. Don't understand why people would want a manager sacked for benching him, but I also don't understand why he gets such a kicking for an average substitute appearance in a game we won. I don't like how people support him over the club, and I hate when people turn on one of our own when they're struggling for form.

 

[Barr]

I just don't see the effort from Martial. He doesn't like to defend which is fair for an attacking player but not even trying to sprint during the final counter attack with Pogba and Lukaku sprinting up the pitch really killed any optimism I had for him in a utd shirt.

 

[Ban]

Will only disagree with you on one point here, according to the blurb on here, he is a she. Not that it makes any difference. The intensity of hatred towards Jose is scarily intense though.

Didnt know that, thanks.
Her posts are absolutely horrible

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Not a fan anymore.

He doesn't have that desire.

 

[bosnian_red]

I do think the biggest problem for him is mentally he just doesn't seem to have the desire at all. IMO a big part of that is probably he doesn't like playing for Mourinho and doesn't have the motivation for whatever reason, but that's no excuse. Could be that a different manager would bring back a hungry Martial. Could be that he needs a new club altogether. What is clear for me though is that he's wasting everyone's time the way he is at the minute.

 

[mad1max954]

Last 10 mins everyone was digging deep to get the job done and martial looked like he just couldn’t give a feck. No heart for the team whatsoever. He was fresh, if you arnt playing well at least run around a bit.

Really poor

 

[Footyislife]

You could clearly see he was under instruction to play it tidy, provide cover, & keep possession. He did a good job of that for the most part, and helped create chances in open play as Watford opened up the game. Could have done better with a couple opportunities, but compared to Rashford/Lingard he's far more productive considering he's not playing consistently.

Stop rating him based on flashy dribbles, how much he runs (lol) etc. It's his tactical discipline/decision making that Mourinho criticizes & today i think he showed good discipline. Could he have ran more in the end maybe? But not critical when you are up a goal with the game almost over. Did you see McTominay running up to support that counter, no...

Get a grip people. Should Jose play him over Rashford/Lingard YES. But unless we have a new manager who can actually set up a balanced team that puts our attacking players in good positions, all our attackers (except those who can finish crosses) will end up looking mediocre. Do you think fans of the other top clubs criticize their top young talents for tracking back??? FFS, this has been the reality and will be with our attacking football until we get a new manager.

 

[Morpheus 7]

I've never changed my opinion on a player quite like Anthony. His attitude is simply horrible, I wouldn't tolerate someone on my team playing like that at astro, never mind a huge game like tonight. I understand he was frustrated with Sanchez taking his position. I know he's not getting on with Jose and wants to play regular. If he's not going to play for the fans, he should have a bit of professional pride at least. He was just strolling around not helping his team. Best for everyone if he does leave. You see limited players like Fellaini and Young but at least they are trying at the end. He comes on for 20 minutes with his sulky Anelka body language, showing nothing. I don't want to hear anyone saying he's just rusty. That was someone not arsed. The entire situation with him has become disappointing.

 

[Red Pavan]

I just don't see the effort from Martial. He doesn't like to defend which is fair for an attacking player but not even trying to sprint during the final counter attack with Pogba and Lukaku sprinting up the pitch really killed any optimism I had for him in a utd shirt.

Completely agree. His attitude is awful.

 

[Adisa]

Simply refuses to run. It's grating.

 

[Handré1990]

I just don't see the effort from Martial. He doesn't like to defend which is fair for an attacking player but not even trying to sprint during the final counter attack with Pogba and Lukaku sprinting up the pitch really killed any optimism I had for him in a utd shirt.

I agree. It seems the collective has upped their game with regards to attitude and effort, while he looks exactly the same. God given talent, terrible attitude. Don’t care if he stays or goes.

 

[Van Piorsing]

Is he suffering from depression or just plain lazy ? He won't get anywhere near French international team or any type of success with that stance.

Somebody needs to talk to him and better be Mourinho that we can't be hold down by his resting bitch face mood.

 

[UncleBob]

We can also talk about what he would have done or not would have done under your Kloppos or Poops but if you look how much work off the ball Salah, Firmino, Mane, Sane, Sterling, KDB and other attacking players do for both of those, how much defensive and also off-ball offensive movement, he would have the same struggles and the same problems he does under Mourinho.

Kloppos ? poops ? How old are you ?

In regards to both Klopp and Pep, they're two managers who constantly instruct players on what they want in every situation, they spend quite a lot of time on making sure everyone understands it, how they are expected to position themselves, the runs they should be making. When you consider the differences in performances and player positions prior and after working with those two managers, why is it so difficult to imagine that the same could be applied to Martial ?

It's not meant as a dig, but there's a reason Mourinho works well with established players and not so well with talents that needs guidance and assurances.

 

[Adisa]

He needs to dig deep. Been a year to forget slightly pleasing to hear Mourinho was encouraging him when he lost the ball. His confidence looks shot.

 

[youngrell]

The reaction here is way OTT.

He did ok when he came on, created a couple of opportunities and made a couple of mistakes. He wasn't on for long, how people can be so outraged at tonight's cameo is beyond me.

 

[M Bison]

Kloppos ? poops ? How old are you ?

In regards to both Klopp and Pep, they're two managers who constantly instruct players on what they want in every situation, they spend quite a lot of time on making sure everyone understands it, how they are expected to position themselves, the runs they should be making. When you consider the differences in performances and player positions prior and after working with those two managers, why is it so difficult to imagine that the same could be applied to Martial ?

It's not meant as a dig, but there's a reason Mourinho works well with established players and not so well with talents that needs guidance and assurances.

But you can't excuse anyone for not trying, which is what Martial is doing. Any player, who has played at any decent level of football, understands you have to try and work off the ball - even Pep and Klopp don't need to teach that.

Martial has loads of talent, but that means nothing if you don't actually work hard. Maybe he needs a different type of manager or is more suited to a less intense league, but for all Jose's faults, i don't think you can fault him for Martial not breaking sweat during a game.

 

[Womp]

You could clearly see he was under instruction to play it tidy, provide cover, & keep possession. He did a good job of that for the most part, and helped create chances in open play as Watford opened up the game. Could have done better with a couple opportunities, but compared to Rashford/Lingard he's far more productive considering he's not playing consistently.

Stop rating him based on flashy dribbles, how much he runs (lol) etc. It's his tactical discipline/decision making that Mourinho criticizes & today i think he showed good discipline. Could he have ran more in the end maybe? But not critical when you are up a goal with the game almost over. Did you see McTominay running up to support that counter, no...

Get a grip people. Should Jose play him over Rashford/Lingard YES. But unless we have a new manager who can actually set up a balanced team that puts our attacking players in good positions, all our attackers (except those who can finish crosses) will end up looking mediocre. Do you think fans of the other top clubs criticize their top young talents for tracking back??? FFS, this has been the reality and will be with our attacking football until we get a new manager.

Only thing I could clearly see was that he was shite and didn't give a feck. How he isn't going to sprint for that last counter-attack is a joke.

Also, attacking players are expected to track back in all teams, leaving yourself open is fecking suicide, you'd notice Pep and Klopp's teams run more than anyone. It was especially true for us under SAF, where the average Valencia was preferred for the mercurial Nani due to his work rate.

It's also worrying that our football is gradually getting better, with our players looking more comfortable and improved, yet from the little we've seen of Martial it's the same old shit.

 

[UncleBob]

But you can't excuse anyone for not trying, which is what Martial is doing. Any player, who has played at any decent level of football, understands you have to try and work off the ball - even Pep and Klopp don't need to teach that.

Martial has loads of talent, but that means nothing if you don't actually work hard. Maybe he needs a different type of manager or is more suited to a less intense league, but for all Jose's faults, i don't think you can fault him for Martial not breaking sweat during a game.

Not entirely sure what sort of reply you're hoping for here. If a player, no matter who he is, isn't trying then he'll be unlikely to even make the bench. It's not like Mourinho is going to stick someone on the bench unless the player has showed that he should be involved in the squad. The obsession with interpreting facial expressions and body language needs to stop. No wonder people lost the plot over the Rooney - Ronaldo incident at the World Cup.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...do-was-reduced-to-tears-by-sir-alex-ferguson/

 

[The Real Treble 99]

I’m sorry but the kids finished playing for us. Unbelievably low on confidence doesn’t feel like he has the drive anymore or if he can be bothered. Either way he’s definitely not in the right frame of mind. If you want to play for United you fight for your place & earn it (ask Luke). You can’t sulk because for me he has been given opportunities by Jose but he just hasn’t made the most of it. Really disappointing as I thought he’d be one of the few who could get us somewhere.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

You could clearly see he was under instruction to play it tidy, provide cover, & keep possession. He did a good job of that for the most part, and helped create chances in open play as Watford opened up the game. Could have done better with a couple opportunities, but compared to Rashford/Lingard he's far more productive considering he's not playing consistently.

Stop rating him based on flashy dribbles, how much he runs (lol) etc. It's his tactical discipline/decision making that Mourinho criticizes & today i think he showed good discipline. Could he have ran more in the end maybe? But not critical when you are up a goal with the game almost over. Did you see McTominay running up to support that counter, no...

Get a grip people. Should Jose play him over Rashford/Lingard YES. But unless we have a new manager who can actually set up a balanced team that puts our attacking players in good positions, all our attackers (except those who can finish crosses) will end up looking mediocre. Do you think fans of the other top clubs criticize their top young talents for tracking back??? FFS, this has been the reality and will be with our attacking football until we get a new manager.

Very well said. I don't think anyone would back Martial's defensive game at all - however ultimately our emphasis on defence is actually part of our attack - we allow the pressure on our back line so we hit the team on the counter; ultimately this is why Sanchez, Rashford & Lukaku might be at RB in the 89th minute. Add to that - we lose the ball and can't retain a control of possession meaning a lot of our defensive work happens reactively on the spot which leaves players out of both their attacking & defensive positions - playing like bulldozers - playing like players who give a ****.

Martial is not suited to either the attacking nor defensive side of Jose's tactics whilst someone like Rashford is more suited to the defensive side than actually being all that important in the attacking side of our football.

The amount of time we actually allow the opposition to have the ball in comparison to a team like City is absolutely insane - we let the opposition control matches & Martial is rightfully or wrongfully called Lazy.

Whilst I have seen enough of him to not completely rule out him being lazy in his defensive game - I have also seen enough footballers who are not defensive bulldozers all across the pitch.

Ultimately there's a difference between a team of 11 players that keep 60-70% possession, fighting for that tiny occasion when the opponent has the ball as attackers in their position; vs - a whole team who give up 50-55% possession in terms of game fluidity and have to spend that time dropping back, defending deep, defending in not their original attacking or defensive positions ultimately to also hit that club on the counter.

Whilst Guardiola might rightfully never back Martial due to him being Lazy - the fact is that the team will dominate that game to the point that there players are not bulldozing defensively by the corner flag ever 5 minutes - they maintain possession & defend as soon as they lose predominantly with high pressure with their face still towards the opposition goal - not having to run back towards ours.

Martial will be better defensively for a team that attack better & attack more consistently. They are linked even though he will never be ji sung parks one lung.

 

[LolYo]

Still have high hopes for him and wont evaluate him until he gets a chance to play for the new manager, be it here or somewhere else.
The way that I see it, Jose has always had problems with attacking players with flair and now its even worse than before and its not like any of our other attackers are playing well, theyre are all struggling.

Therefore I will hold off on evaluating Martial until I think he's in a fair situation.
I know he's capable of so much more.

Thats my opinion on the matter, Im firmly 100% convinced that he's a talented quality player that will shine sooner or later and currently is being held back like all of our other players and like many before him under the same manager.

 

[vangagal]

Martial will be better defensively for a team that attack better & attack more consistently. They are linked even though he will never be ji sung parks one lung.

Feck me. Its Park Ji Sung, its Three Lung Park. Get your fact straight first before you spat your usual hate speech here.
Whilst he maybe not as talented as Martial he dragged PSV of all team to semifinal of UCL only going out by away goals to eventual winner AC Milan and in his time here never once he complain about lack of game time ffs. Fergie made him from an attacking mid into workhorse mid and he did very well done.
Martial with every ounce of his talent he done almost nothing to show it so far. Its one thing being not interest in defending but his off the ball movement be it press the opponent or running through the space to strecth defenders almost non existent. If the ball not come to his feet he stood and rotten to his ground. Thats not helping him and team at all. He is a pro and should act like one. Did Ronaldo mad to Jose in Madrid? Yes. Did he act like petulant child not did what Jose told him to do? No. You see Pogba, he admit there's something going on between him and Jose, and he still tried on the pitch. He even got drop for McTominay not Alexis for all of players. That the difference. He can sulk all he want but on the pitch be a pro ffs.

 

[Zlatattack]

Effort?

That's not fair. He's merely paid tens of thousands of pounds a week, that's not break a sweat money.

I can't believe we're offering him a new contract.

 

[kidbob]

I hate to say it but he seems like a guy who has decided his future lies elsewhere. I reckon with the signing of Sanchez, who was signed when Martial was in good form and hasn't exactly pulled up trees himself, he has realised (right or wrong) that there is very little he can do to cement a place under Jose. He literally looks like a guy with no confidence. He was always less active in his play style but he was always effective with the ball. Now he plays like he is defeated and feels no joy playing football. I don't think it's not playing as a striker but more that he lately seems to appear when we are defending a lead. I really hope he plays midweek from the start.

 

[vangagal]

I hate to say it but he seems like a guy who has decided his future lies elsewhere. I reckon with the signing of Sanchez, who was signed when Martial was in good form and hasn't exactly pulled up trees himself, he has realised (right or wrong) that there is very little he can do to cement a place under Jose. He literally looks like a guy with no confidence. He was always less active in his play style but he was always effective with the ball. Now he plays like he is defeated and feels no joy playing football. I don't think it's not playing as a striker but more that he lately seems to appear when we are defending a lead. I really hope he plays midweek from the start.

Last season he started like this and he was doing just fine. Cameo for last 30 mins and grab goals. Lets see what he can do untill January. The balls on him to perform like many believe. I dont buy this Mourinho wreck him anymore. Shaw literally who got wrecked by Jose or many told like that can turn the table at last. Why not the future ballon d'or winner Anthony Martial?

 

[kidbob]

Last season he started like this and he was doing just fine. Cameo for last 30 mins and grab goals. Lets see what he can do untill January. The balls on him to perform like many believe. I dont buy this Mourinho wreck him anymore. Shaw literally who got wrecked by Jose or many told like that can turn the table at last. Why not the future ballon d'or winner Anthony Martial?

Didn't mean to sound like Jose ruined him (he didn't IMO). Just feel like his attitude has been altered to an unmanageable level and that's on Martial. The only problem I have is the Sanchez replacing him thing but that's only down to Sanchez's lack of performance and isn't Jose's fault either. I really think that Martial's problem is a mental one rather than him being not good enough. However mental problems will definitely stop players becoming what their ability level is, Morrisson and Janujaz being very obvious examples for us. I like the guy but I'd be happy losing him if it meant signing a talented right winger with good potential.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Simply refuses to run. It's grating.

It’s frustrating, as long as this continues he doesn’t deserve to start. Even Ronaldo had to do it when he came to us the same age as Martial but eventually earned that license to attack, Martial just isn’t cutting it.