Agree. Why the need to put down one player just to big up another? They all play for the same team, and contribute differently to the team, all essential cogs in a system. Lingard's movement creates space and Martial uses his dribbling ability to create chances, and Rashford uses his pace and (much improved) finishing to score goals - all essential to the team. And guess what? We won at Spurs!
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- Appearances
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Agree. Why the need to put down one player just to big up another? They all play for the same team, and contribute differently to the team, all essential cogs in a system. Lingard's movement creates space and Martial uses his dribbling ability to create chances, and Rashford uses his pace and (much improved) finishing to score goals - all essential to the team. And guess what? We won at Spurs!
This 100%. If people stopped doing this, the forum would be a much happier place.
Looks twice the size of Trippier.
As for his performance, thought it was okay. Was very dangerous when we got the ball to him and did his job defensivekd in the second half .Most of the attacks Tottenham had came through the other side.
People have this thing that he should always be among the best players on the pitch, which is quite frankly ridiculous.
Don't even know why this thread is so active.
People have this thing that he should always be among the best players on the pitch, which is quite frankly ridiculous.
Don't even know why this thread is so active.
I'd like to be wrong but i think he's least suited to this role out of all 3 managers. He's more suited to a slower compact game than a fast counter attacking one.
That said he'll still get his moments we'll just rely on him less which is no bad thing if the goals are spread around.
That said he'll still get his moments we'll just rely on him less which is no bad thing if the goals are spread around.
What makes you think that ?
Not sure why anyone would give him stick based on yesterdays match, it's a good performance. Gets himself into good positions, could've easily had a mint assist as well, possibly a goal if Lingard had looked up.
We have a front three that's working well together, can only imagine they'll continue to improve
You can see how Trippier shat himself as soon as Tony turned his attention towards him. Tough guy and all that Kieran, aren't you?
I feel like I should start trashing on Martial relentlessly so he can do a Pogba on me. It's for the greater good.
Rashford isn't carrying anything. Everyone is playing their part equally.
Decent performance. First half was good and I do enjoy seeing him run at pace with the ball. He links up well with Rashford and Pogba.
He also did really well when he held the ball and passed to Pogba in the second half (that chance he created).
He also did really well when he held the ball and passed to Pogba in the second half (that chance he created).
Or, maybe Rashford is going through a good patch of form just as Martial did not that long ago. You talk about Rashford's 'mental agility' (whatever that means), when he's had countless boneheaded decisions when on the ball in the past. Many, many times screwing up clear opportunities for teammates because he didn't know what to do, botched a simple touch, or decided to go at it on his own (when there's almost no chance of scoring) instead of laying it on a platter for a teammate.
There are countless examples of Martial showing work-rate, anticipation and IQ in his time at Manchester United, it's really not that hard to find. If you're going to use one player (like Rashford) to make a point on another (like Martial), I suggest you don't choose to forget everything that happened prior to OGS taking over because there's plenty of evidence to show you how wrong you are both on Martial and Rashford in your post.
It's not complicated, they've both had good moments in the season, this is Rashford's time right now and Martial is an active participant, not a passenger. Under this new attack fluidity, he will consistently contribute something, whether it's a goal/assist/key chance created. The reason why this thread gets so much activity is because there are clear agenda posters, they're always the same, most of them on my ignore list so I lose track of why there's so much activity going on here, and it is so poorly done or thought out by them that it makes this thread borderline toxic at times. They were nowhere to be seen just a month ago when Martial was saving Mourinho's job consistently, and the fact that they try to spew their nonsense now when his performances don't warrant it is just pathetic and why people respond in defense of Martial, which then they will ridiculously claim that you can't criticize Martial when I, and many others, have done in the past. Everyone deserves criticism, and Martial is no exception, but there's a clear difference between valid criticism and absolute rubbish for the service of some imbecile agenda.
PS: When I refer to agenda posters, I'm not speaking of you btw, just to be clear.
One thing Martial does bring is the ability to occupy more than one player. Whenever he gets a run down the left, every team we play double or triple team him, unless they've been caught out on the break and can't. That opens up space for Rashford and even more so Pogba as the left sided central midfielder. The CDM leaves him to comes across and help his full back because Martial scares people when he runs at them.
He forced a good save from Lloris first half and also set up Pogba for what was nearly a 2nd goal. Did very little in the 2nd half, but that was partly down to the balance of the game. Spurs were totally on top and pushing us back.
He probably should work harder, but I think he does enough elsewhere to stay in the team for now. Not like the alternatives we have are much good.
He forced a good save from Lloris first half and also set up Pogba for what was nearly a 2nd goal. Did very little in the 2nd half, but that was partly down to the balance of the game. Spurs were totally on top and pushing us back.
He probably should work harder, but I think he does enough elsewhere to stay in the team for now. Not like the alternatives we have are much good.
He's getting to the point now where he is still offering the team something on his quiet days.
Said it before in this thread,but these should be his base level when he isn't 100% on it and that's what we're starting to see now.
Said it before in this thread,but these should be his base level when he isn't 100% on it and that's what we're starting to see now.
This.
Tbf though, the team sort of faded around the 60th minute mark. Sitting deeper and deeper, and allowing (maybe allowing isn't the right word) Spurs to have the ball.
With a better composure he would had scored at least one goal. But he frustrates me with his pressing!
More often than not yes but not always.
It depends what effect the player has on the team performance.
I like Martial better than Lingard, but the game we played yesterday Lingard was better in attack than martial and he was more important than him.
We setup in a diamond formation and our aim was to press high,cut off the passing lanes and hit spurs on the counter attack when necessary.
We did that.
Lingard contributed to that more.
In fact he did contribute to a goal where Martial didn't.
This is actually an interesting point.
He tries to play as a winger/creative midfielder hybrid at times but has the tools of a wide forward/number 9 but has pretty poor movement compared to most other number 9s playing at a high level.
Still a huge talent though but I also feel like he needs to decide what type of player he is
a) You don't have to pick one of the two and b) Have a think about the ratio of time spent on the ball vs time spent not on the ball for any one player over a 90 minute game.
Think his place is up for grabs. Always feel like he's running with a handbrake on, whether it's pressing or running at a defender. I saw someone earlier say his IQ is low which is bang on, the amount of times he got caught in no mans land In the second half with Trippier getting in behind was frightening. He has contributed goals this season but if you go through the games I can only think of Chelsea away, Newcastle at home (for a half an hour) and in patches at home to Everton where his all round game (pressing, movement, link up play, decision making) has been Very good. He definitely has scope to improve but I don't see how he's untouchable in this team. I think if Alexis can get fit and have more cameos off the bench like he did against Newcastle on a consistant basis then I could see him offering more to the team
Alexis is done as a LW forget it, he doesn’t have the pace for that role anymore as he can’t beat players. Alexis needs to be playing around the box as a false 9 similar to the position occupied by Lingard yesterday.
Don't think any of the forwards are untouchable. The problem is I really can't see anyone taking it off him. His last two games have been subpar, even though he was okay yesterday. Even when subpar, he still offers more in that position than any player in the squad. He's the only player in the squad that's consistently double marked. On more than one occasion, Ole has talked about how he can take players on in one v one situations. We have only one player that can do that and it's him. Sanchez is done as a winger. I don't know if he doesn't trust his body anymore or whatever but I can't remember the last time I saw him stand his marker up and beat him. Something you would expect your winger to do and something Martial does fairly regularly.
Completely agree with you that he has lost pace but Have you not seen the way a front 3 operates under Ole? Any of them can pop up in either of the 3 positions. It's so fluid which makes your off the ball movements and decision making vital. Which is why I think Alexis would bring more to the front 3
Martial's lack of movement off the ball is his problem. But he needs to be coached by a proper attacking coach and not Jose. Maybe with Ole around he will improve his all round game?
That's nonsense. His dribbling is excellent and his finishing is the best in the club. If anything, he needs to improve his workrate.
I'm probably in the minority here but I think Lingard is the closest to being undroppable, especially in the big games. He's so important to the way we break teams down. Anyway, do you not think Marcus Rashford can beat people one on one? Think back to the Bournemouth and Southampton games. Paul Pogba can beat people one on one, think of his assist for Jesse second last year at the Emirates. So Martial isn't the only one capable of doing it. As I explained to the other poster regarding Martial and Alexis, the front 3 the Ole is looking to play is fluid and interchangeable which means Sanchez won't have to stay wide and beat the full back every time, he can come inside and link play with Pogba and Jesse, leaving the left flank for Shaw to get down. And if the move breaks down, he'l be far more aggressive in winning it back than Martial.
Yeah that's my hope too.
Ultimately it's down to him. He can be as good as he wants to be really.
At the moment he offers two or three moments of brilliance in a game and not much else. Even when he's in a great run of goals, like he was in November, he doesn't really influence a game apart from those key actions. In fact I can't think of one genuinely top performance he turned in during that run.
Top wingers are contributing all the time, even when not in form, helping their team and challenging their opponent. They're making runs over the top, attacking their post when the ball's coming in from the other side, chasing back to help their full-back and marking space intelligently. Martial doesn't really do any of those things consistently.
Mourinho was clearly a disaster for him but hopefully Solskjaer can get inside his head and tease the best from him. There are no more excuses now.
Nonsense eh? We will have to agree to disagree, because if you think Martial's end product is good, and his dribbling 'excellent' that is your opinion. I see and hear a lot of hype, but sorry, I don't see it. Running fast with the ball is of course useful. In fact I would argue that Pogba, Lindgard (when he gets his game together..) and Rashford are all more effective when running at opposing players. Martial's dribbling frequently seem to end in a stuttering or complete halt. And, 99% of the time, he moves inside onto his right foot. It is no longer as effective as it was when he first started to play as a left winger/left of a front three. His crossing is poor. Poor. How many assists has he this season? You suggesting his crossing is good? You accept that service for Man Utd forwards? Sorry, I do not. Look at the quality of service from Leroy Sane. Consistently. Look at Robertson at Liverpool. These players are providing quality crosses and crossing. Makes a difference when you need not always cut back on to your other foot to cross. Martial needs to develop a better, stronger, left foot. Look a the example of Christiano, who was all right-foot in his early years (as was Pogs btw...) CR7 developed this aspect of his game, and his heading ability. I want Martial to be doing the same. What is wrong with that? He's at Man United ffs!
Now, maybe it's how he applies his talent... Compare him to Hazard. Son. Mane. All right-footed. All (usually) play in similar positions. Martial is quicker than all of them! Look at their consistent game-management and impact and compare.
I have stated that Martial who arrived, all raw power, pace, scoring different types of goals, winning matches... I love this player. He was purely instinctive then. Now, he seems to be anything but instinctive, and his game has seems to have stopped developing a bit. Of course, the Mourinho' effect is significant, and I do expect more under Ole... But players also have to recognise where they need to improve. He has some terrific moments, but needs to find another gear of consistent performance for me. Rashford is at least trying to show that. Pogba is showing that. Lindeholf. Matic. Herrera... Ashley Young plays like a leader now. I want to see Martial now also step up. Because he has the talent, the platform. Everything.
Question is: How good does he want to be? Decent... Ok... Or superb, outstanding, critical-you-cannot-take-me-off type of consistency.
Mourinho said he had talent, but sometimes you do not see him for long periods of the game. I think this is a fair assessment of Martial. I hope he (Martial) addresses that.
What he needs to improve now is force himself into games where he does not get played in. Whenever he gets the ball, he is pretty good, but if not, he cant push enough to bring him into the game. It is somewhat a rather passive approach.
Against Spurs, when he got the ball he was dangerous and with the Pogba chance he should have had an assist. But if the team cant bring him into play, he seems a bit lost. Rashford is different, he will always find a way to pop up somewhere and stay involved
Against Spurs, when he got the ball he was dangerous and with the Pogba chance he should have had an assist. But if the team cant bring him into play, he seems a bit lost. Rashford is different, he will always find a way to pop up somewhere and stay involved
Feels like he's doing a Nani, came with great potential but right now he's trying to hard by himself. Need to adapt his game and bring teammates into play.
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If he is asking for too much money we should sell and buy Mohamed Elyounussi of Basel. A better all around player imo. Ran rings around city players when they played them in the cl last season.
This (the part I've bolded) isn't up for debate; he is one of the most clinical in the league. Stop perpetuating shite.
What's the situation with his contract?
Any progress with his contract?
Martial excels in a specific role on the left (running at defenders cutting back and finishing) but his 360 game has never been that good and he lacks stamina so he tends to fade during games.
He showed the Martial touch. Had the spurs defenders terrified whenever he got near their box. On another day, easily could have had a goal + assist. A fine performance away to a difficult opponent.
I suspect he honestly wanted to leave (probably still does) as his partner still lives in france with his kid. Not a good sign imo and I read somewhere his teammates suspect he asked for an unrealistic salary knowing United wouldn't go that far as he planned to leave.
I see where you're coming from and maybe I'm making it too black and white when it's more muddled than that
However, people keep on going about how bad his off the ball play is but in the game when he had the flu and didn't play but we won, our attacking play didn't seem as crisp without him and I feel people tend to ignore that
Anyways, I could big up his off the ball play with the way he keeps the width in our team and drags defenders towards him which creates space for the other attackers while still contributing with the other key areas (chances, goals and assists) so it's not like he's that bad in that area
Except his end product is very good.
And Rashford and Lingard are better at running defenders? No chance.
He's still looking really good - someone has to score the goals and at the moment it's swinging Rashford's way but having them both in the team is what's keeping defences flummoxed.
I think the problem is I'm making it too black and white as I still feel his greatest contribution to our goal was defensive (the interception) but he still made the pass to Pogba so..
Anyways, I feel it's all a matter of semantics at this point as I place a higher premium on direct contributions to attack/goals so I don't watch our games with an eye out for the contribution of "movement et all"
Martial and Lingard had good 1st halves, I rate the former's own higher than the latter
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