Faded in the 2nd, was dangerous and active in the first. An okayish performance.
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 38
- Goals
- 12
- Assists
- 3
- Yellow cards
- 2
- Status
Depends how you look at it.
Martial might could have registered an assist if Pogba scored but jesse contributed to our attacking by applying the high press,cutting off the passing lanes and alloweing us to counter attack with his movement and pace.
From a straight tactical point of view i would say that Jesse was more important for us today in attack than Martial.
Jesse also did make a contribution to our goal as well
Okay performance.
Might be me, but seems like he's had some problems getting past players lately(past 2-3 games).
Might be me, but seems like he's had some problems getting past players lately(past 2-3 games).
True. Hasn't been able to easily beat players like he usually does.
Again a decent enough game and nothing much. I'd like to see him taking on players and wrong footing them again. That's something that's he's been not doing for a few games now. His layoff to Pogba should have been an assist. Still a very important player for us.
I still think he needs to perform over a longer period in games rather than flashes here or there. Needs to get himself involved in more areas of the pitch.
Top player no doubt though.
Top player no doubt though.
Those are all linked to his high work rate which I've admitted is better than martial... on the ball though? He offers very little relative to martial and that is my point
An attacker should be judged on what he does with the ball rather than off it should he not? (I mean if you had to pick one of the two)
The attacker won't get the ball if he doesn't move off it.
I do not think anyone was or is surprised from his performance. It was typical Martial.. bitty, unclear, inconclusive.. I say it again, and again, and again.. he needs to decide what type of player he is. He slows the game down, far too much, and doesn't work his markers enough. He simply does not. His dribbling isn't as effective as it should be. He has a sense of menace, and lots pace... but his game isn't clear.
Look at Rashford's game. He (Rashford) is creating a clear identity in how he plays.
Martial does not do this. He needs to be careful because Sanchez will be looking at this. Also, if Lukaku steps up, and it's two from Rashford, Lindgard, Sanchez and Martial... well, you can see where this goes.
I don't know what goes on in his head, and he doesn't seem the most animated or demonstrative guy. He needs to step up, because Phelan and Ole will be looking to re-introduce and retain United standards
Look at Rashford's game. He (Rashford) is creating a clear identity in how he plays.
Martial does not do this. He needs to be careful because Sanchez will be looking at this. Also, if Lukaku steps up, and it's two from Rashford, Lindgard, Sanchez and Martial... well, you can see where this goes.
I don't know what goes on in his head, and he doesn't seem the most animated or demonstrative guy. He needs to step up, because Phelan and Ole will be looking to re-introduce and retain United standards
Good game.
Definitely the two should go hand in hand, I just asked which one people would prefer from an attacker if they had to choose... sorta like "effectiveness vs efficiency"
Anyways, my original point has been distorted somewhat now. A poster seemed like he was putting down martial because Rashford and Lingard provided better "movement et all" so I just highlighted what martial brings to the table that was being ignored
Let me just say this though, I understand the need for hooking off martial before Lingard in this game but that had to do with the defensive side of it than for attacking reasons
Surely you don't feel Lingard contributes more or equally to our attacking game than martial? (In this game and overall)
This is a team game. What Martial and Rashford and Lingard provides to this team is entirely different. That is the beauty of it. Martial is quicker of the mark in short distances and he has better dribbling than Rashford. Lingard is different in his movements and is always on the move. So they all complement each other. Lingard can play in midfield and is defensively more sound than Martial.
Martial's prpblem is Luke Shaw.
Because of the lack of width Shaw provides;martial plays out wider than he should.
He needs to play as an inside forward like he did against Cardiff.
In fact Rashford needs to play as an inside forward to unlock his full potential too with Lingard playing in between them as a false 9/ support player.
Today Lingard played as a false 9 but ultimately everyone was too wide apart from each other to undertake a move similar to Martial's goal vs Cardiff.
Because of the lack of width Shaw provides;martial plays out wider than he should.
He needs to play as an inside forward like he did against Cardiff.
In fact Rashford needs to play as an inside forward to unlock his full potential too with Lingard playing in between them as a false 9/ support player.
Today Lingard played as a false 9 but ultimately everyone was too wide apart from each other to undertake a move similar to Martial's goal vs Cardiff.
You can't choose. As I said you can't get the ball if you're not moving, simply really.
Rashford and Lingard were better today and their interchanging role between center and right flank was the main reason for the goal by dragging their defenders out but they both faded in second half. Martial had flashes but overall, average or Ok performance at best.
Martial is overall definitely a better player than Lingard, hell, some posters in Lingard thread have labelled me agenda driven for how much I slaughtered him but Martial today was generally poor and Lingard did the role asked for him in the first half pretty well imo, by moving central and dragging their defenders while letting Rash move freely on the right flank.
Thought he was good enough, nothing special, but played his part. Pass for Pogba was brilliant, but shame he couldn't score from it.
I think he is a huge talent, but at the moment Rashfird is carrying this team, which makes the "Martial is easily bigger talent, not even comparable" brigade look silly. Saying that, I am not even sure anymore who I think is going to be better, but no one can say for certain that Martial is far bigger talent.
I think he is a huge talent, but at the moment Rashfird is carrying this team, which makes the "Martial is easily bigger talent, not even comparable" brigade look silly. Saying that, I am not even sure anymore who I think is going to be better, but no one can say for certain that Martial is far bigger talent.
Sure you can, but people seem to think talent is all there is to it when it’s just a tiny part of the equation. I think Martial is far more talented than Rashford, I have no idea that he’ll wind up a better player and right now would maybe side with Rashford if he continues his good run of form and finds confidence in the box.
That being said, I thought Martial had another good game. He didn’t score or assist but he’s creating danger, chances, and he’s still the only one along with Pogba who can create something out of nothing. As long as he’s creating chances, he should play every game. The front three are only going to get better as they get more time together. I think this was a really exciting result. They didn’t get run out of the game and legitimitately caused problems on the counter. They are a danger for any team and I think Ole has just scratched the surface of what they’re capable of.
It’s so good to see this team with Mourinho gone.
We were playing against Spurs at their home ground. This is not Huddersfield. Yes, he was not brilliant but he played well today too. He could have assisted in two goals and I would say he most probably would have scored if Lingard has passed it to him instead of blazing it over.
I still struggle to understand why people rate the guy. Whens the last time he had a good game? He will always be largely anonymous over 90 minutes, whilst providing a goal every 4 or so games. That's not good enough.
People will say he can improve but there's been absolutely nothing he's shown to suggest that it's likely. He's every bit as apathetic out there today as when we signed him.
People will say he can improve but there's been absolutely nothing he's shown to suggest that it's likely. He's every bit as apathetic out there today as when we signed him.
Go to bed.
Yeah this is nonsense sorry.
amazing.
Love Martial playing this way.Good attacks, and defensively superb. Had a go at Spurs defense and took few snapshots. Helped the defence and Shaw a lot!
Overall superb team performance. Should not have been subbed out imo.
I'm fine with people disagreeing with a post but I struggle to see the point of such responses. Were all United fans and I'm certainly open to being wrong, so if I'm missing something why not tell me? Isn't such conversing kind of the point of a forum?
Looked lively today, Pogba should have scored from his lay off.
You are right to question the use of a forum when some people just respond with short, sarcastic and often patronising comments. Explain why you do not agree with posts, rather than dismiss.
I agree with his point... what many see in Martial, I simply do not know. He has some potential, but it is far more 'potential' than actual definitive, effective, inspiring, clearly influential performances.
His dribbling is not that good, his end product is far too often poor/ to average. How many clear assists, high quality crosses or passes which actually lead to chances, do you see from this 'amazing, awesome' Martial? Maybe once or twice a game. Today his highlight was to set up Pogba for a clear chance... that's what I expect a 'amazing, awesome' player do consistently. He does not. He doesn't look like scoring. He is completely predictable in possession... he slows the game down, totally reliant on his right-foot, and always has to cut inside, which doesn't make him more dangerous. He doesn't head or carry an aerial threat, or attack the ball for some reason.. his power and physique should see him storm through defences. And he doesn't. His game lacks cohesion or identity. Just running fast with the ball, helps, but isn't enough.
He has attributes that need to be developed, and he has to work and define his game
like Marcus Rashford has begun to do, who, even though is still learning and is raw, has, through focus and hard work, has improved and has overtaken Martial. Why?
Martial plays exactly the same way he did two years or more ago. He will continue to be subbed, because he simply is not doing enough to stay on. He is not a key player for us for 90mins. What does that tell you?
I may read him wrong, and he has potential ok, but there is an arrogance, an over-inflated belief in his own hype, and this is costing him.
A fit Sanchez gets back in that team. Definitely.
I like that he took no shite from Trippier and shoved him back away when Spurs wanted the ball to be kicked out for attention to Sissoko. Great to see that bit of aggression and not just taking it passively
Decent performance against a good defence.
The fact that this thread is so active today is crazy. It was a decent to good game for Martial, look at his highlights from the first half.
Yet on one hand you have posters claiming he was shite, and the other half defending him. Give it a rest lads. Get some sleep. Come back when he has a proper stinker or a proper world class performance. Because this one doesn't warrant all that talk.
Yet on one hand you have posters claiming he was shite, and the other half defending him. Give it a rest lads. Get some sleep. Come back when he has a proper stinker or a proper world class performance. Because this one doesn't warrant all that talk.
Martial had a few decent moments in attack. On another day his low shot might have beaten the keeper at the near post, or Pogba might have drilled a shot in the corner, giving him an assist. The defensive side of his game is still weak. He needs to do more to help his full-back.
What's so crazy about it? People are so touchy and sensitive when it comes to Martial. It is obvious he has talent to be one of the worlds best and we see his brilliance in small pockets but it's not coming along as it should.
Anyway, my take on all of this is that I fear he just meant to be a player who is supposed to play through the middle. We really restrict him coming of the wing. For me one of his biggest strengths is finishing and little dribbles to get a shot away and that all comes from the middle.
Expecting rationality in the Martial thread? Where have you been the past 3 years Sir?
Where were you when he scored in 6 (or 7) successive games? When I see your username i know what will be said already.
Yes, he has his flaws but that can totally be fixed with time and works with an attacking manager, as any other young players. Nobody said he’s world class so pipe it down abit
Expecting rationality in the Caf as a whole is stretching it.
You can't substitute raw emotion, heart and endless drive and desire to make things happen. Martial doesn't have that in his game and it is the clear indicator of where the two are worlds apart. For example, following on the point in this post;
If you took Martial's general game, mental and physical and you distilled it down, you'd end up with about 12-20 dribbles and a bunch of things that happen because of him being on the ball. His work rate, IQ and general anticipation off the ball is frighteningly bad for a guy who on the ball is as talented as he is. It is something I think Ole can work with him on if Ole ends up staying and it will benefit him.
Rashford has the natural instinct and mental agility to enhance his performance with anticipation, work rate and desire and I see barely any of that in Martial's game.
If users took all of that into consideration to dissect a Martial performance then you would get far less arguments. He comes on, takes his dribbles and influences here and there. I think there is more in his game that he needs to draw upon but I'm satisfied with what he brings to the table in general. For some people it is a deal breaker and that has to be acknowledged as fair enough.
Herein lies the source of our disagreement, I don't think Lingard had a better game than martial especially if you restrict it to the first half where martial was our most threatening attacker
Maybe it's me not putting a high enough premium on "movement et all" but I can't comprehend how anyone will feel Lingard had a better game than Martial, especially in aiding our attack
I don't just share your PoV which doesn't make me right and you wrong, we just see things differently
on a side note
I think I'm gonna borrow a leaf out of @Santoryo books and just ignore some crazy posts I'm reading here and hopefully lack of attention (from all I hope) sucks out the energy from them
Are we having the Martial and Lingard debate again? It's ridiculous even mentioning them in the same sentence. One is taking risks, taking players on and trying to create something out of nothing, with Lingard on the other hand, his first instinct when he gets the ball is to go backwards and safe. Martial was better then Lingard yesterday, and this was poor game by Tony's standards, that tells you everything about Jesse.
One thing is taking a risk and two opposition players, while making the team click is attack is another. Martial is a wide forward, while Lingard is more of an Ander Herrera in attack.
Not sure about the arrogance bit - it might equally be that he lacks self-belief. And I wouldn't have Sánchez back in the team.
Agree with everything else though.
It's clear CB/Winger is our top priority. Not sure which winger I would prefer though.
[QU
:lol; Bloody hell
Didn't he just score in some 7/8 games on a trot?
- Status