Has Mourinho had a single negative thing to say about Martial so far this season ? Who has said anything about dislike ?
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Has Mourinho had a single negative thing to say about Martial so far this season ? Who has said anything about dislike ?
If we want to sell Martial, why didn't we do so in the summer? We didn't actually want to sell him in the summer, but we do now he's improved? Give me a break.
Martials agent, just a couple of months ago when Martial could have been sold if we wanted to sell...
Martials agent, just a couple of months ago when Martial could have been sold if we wanted to sell...
No player should be guaranteed a starting position in a place with so much competition on it and for a player who's considered a young talent as Martial and Rashford not a world class player who's supposed to play every minute and walks this position. He shouldn't be given a starting position on a golden plate just because he's a great young talent. He'll have to fight with other players in such position to earn it himself, because neither him nor Rashford are considered world class players, unlike Pogba or De Gea.
If the manager says the player is happy and the player doesn't look like discontent or searching for offers to leave then all talks about him leaving is absolute nonsense. He had a chance to leave this summer and chose to stay even though he wasn't guaranteed a main starting position last season. The kid wants to stay and fight for his position till he can get it. We won't know his future better than himself.
All talks about Mourinho hating Martial, him wanting to leave and all this is just a bunch of theories and guesswork with not even a single evidence to back it up except for him not playing this match or that. All this discussions will die when he starts in Russia then re-open it again the next match he doesn't play it's boring.
If you're expecting Martial to start every match it won't happen, so relax. The player himself stayed and he knew he'll start his season from the bench and fight to get a starting position. It's not like he's surprised or anything that he doesn't play every minute, so stop all this guesswork please. If Mourinho wanted Martial to get sold he would have already done that this summer.
Based on what? Jose's handling of Martial? Why is he handling Martial exactly the same this season as he did when he brought Mkhitaryan back last season? Beacuse he wants to sell him like he did Mkhitaryan? Oh wait, we didn't! Even though hundreds of posters just like you said that we would.
Oh well, If this goes on long enough he'll probably leave and righfully so, then we can field our super defensive but average winger Rashford at the LW, hardworking Lingard on the right, very important Fellaini in the middle. We'll be even more amazing to watch
Martial isn't either a specialized LW, though . We bought him as a CF then turned him to LW, same as Rashford, that negates your point from the start.
And Rashford has many flaws in his CF roles he'll never do it as efficiently as Lukaku in a Mourinho's system. I saw his future much more as a wide forward.
No, he's quietly praised him without overdoing it. Exactly as he did with Mkhitaryan when he was reintroduced last season. You don't seem to understand why a manager would test/challenge a player to correct their attitude, so i won't even try explaining why Mourinho isn't gushing over Martial just yet. And it's not because he hates him or wants to sell him.
Or we could make up some other bullshit.
Yea, every circumstance is different of course.
Morgan, Bastian and Memphis had their own circumstances too - largely due to the fact two of them performed poorly.
Bastian has some similarities to Martial actually. He wasn't an inferior player to the one ahead of him (Carrick), and even if he played well when given a rare chance, he was still largely excluded. It wasn't based on ability, in fact, Jose never even tried to imply that it was. The issues seemed off the field, and Jose himself said as much after Bastian left.
And although he sold those, but hasn't sold Martial - it doesn't mean he wouldn't if we were offered a fair price.
LOL you want to believe the words of agents now, all of them are snakes. Point here is not that Mourinho/United would sell him, Martial might leave looking for better opportunities just like Lukaku and De Bruyne did under Mourinho and Pogba did under SAF. Plus stop banging on about Miki, just like someone already pointed out he was bought by Mourinho whereas Martial wasn't, if Miki failed then it's on Mourinho's head.
Like Hazard, Bale, Ronaldo etc? Oh wait, their defensive responsibilty was absolutely minimal under Jose.
Today was Rashfords best game ever defensively so, unless Jose can see the future, he can't have picked him on defensive qualities for the game today.
Tbh, that's just one theory. The things Jose did with Mkhi were all football related, things he had to learn in order to adapt to the league and ultimately - play well, which he wasn't!
This doesn't apply to a player who IS playing well. I haven't read your quotes, but I don't think I recall Jose saying Mkhi had a bad attitude per se anyway. That was more a Luke Shaw thing. Mkhi seemed more about learning to cope on the pitch. Martial seems to be coping just fine on the field, and has done since pre-season. I would like to think it is job done then, if that's what Mourinho wanted. Bring him back into the team like he did with Mkhitaryan right?
Did we sell him? Did Martial move? Does Martial look gutted he didn't move? Hell, turns out it's a bit more reliable trusting some things an agent says rather than the insane ramblings of some on here.
And regarding the last bit, that's a theory based on sweet feck all. Dont you think Jose's bosses wouldn't be aggrieved that they spent £50mill on a player that their employee wanted to discard because he isn't his man? feck off.
And who's to say that Mkhitaryan wouldn't have turned round last season and said he wants out after being left out for 3 fecking months!? That would have been on Jose's head, but he risked it anyway.
Martial is playing well but, as Jose Mourinho himself has said, he wants to push him to give more consistency. If he feels that it's an attitude issue, then he has to deal with that how he sees fit.
Jose hinted at Mkhitaryan having an issue when he said that he needs to keep his mouth shut. Obviously something happened off the pitch that Jose didn't like. Whenhe brought him back he handled him exactly the same as he is handling Martial right now, who is also returning to the fold after being left out a lot last season. It's not a coincidence. He's trying to build Martial up and he's doing it in the exact same way he said he did with Mkhitaryan.
Not worried, I'd be surprised if Martial didn't start in the CL mid-week. We have two very talented youngsters and they're being rotated, people need to relax. I'm sure both have been spoken to and both seem happy with this it so far.
This defensive winger thing needs both the player and the manager to work. No manager in the world will be able to play Bale,Hazard or CR7 as defensive wingers if they wanted to because they're already world class attackers. Rashford is definitely not that good a winger, he actually had no choice but to play as he did today, he contributed nothing in attack right from the first half. Martial does not look like he'll even be given a chance, so of course our manager, in his defensive mastermind wisdom, always picks the one who will be more helpful at making us not concede rather than the one who more helpful at making us score
Are you suggesting he should drop Lukaku for Rashford?
You seem to have invented a whole load of things I haven't said here.
I don't think Jose hates Martial. I think that it seems a bit obvious that he isn't benching him simply because he isn't playing well enough to play more though.
He shouldn't be guaranteed a place, of course not. He should have to earn it. I don't think anyone is campaigning for a Martial who is playing poorly to be in the team, no? There is an undeniable disparity in the ratio of minutes played to quality of performance though. After all, this is what it should be all about right? Hard work. He shouldn't have a place set in stone, but a Martial playing well should do.
Nothing will go away with him starting in Moscow either. That's the expectation. The expectation is also there that he won't play in the league. I'm not Sure you're point with this. Would you have said the same last week when people questioned why he only got 5 mins against Everton? Did you say 'this will all stop when he starts against Burton'?
I don't think the implication is that Mourinho 'hates' Martial, and will never start him again. So any sporadic start he may get doesn't debunk anything. The working theory is that he doesn't value him as highly as some people think his ability and performances warrant him being valued. I never said Mourinho wants him sold either. Perhaps he sees him as 'a member of his squad'. I said I suspect Martial may eventually want to leave. He wasn't playing well last season, so it's no shock, and commendable he didn't kick up a fuss to leave. On his current form, next summer will likely be different.
Simply put, in my view, a Martial who is playing well isn't a substitute. He's too good for that. His talent is rare, he was bought for a huge amount of money with the intention to be a starter. Transfers don't always work out of course, look at Falcao. The point is, a Falcao who plays like we knew Falcao could is not a sub. Generally, if you keep such players as a sub for a prolonged period, they will move on. Because they are not substitutes. I have supported United for 25 years - I can't remember any squad players we have had who are as good as Martial. He is no Ji Sung Park, Jesper Blomqvist level of talent. You don't buy players like him to be a sub. You bench them perhaps if they are off form, but if not, you play them.
You say De Gea gets different treatment due to being World Class - but the fact is, he was brought in with a similar profile to Martial. Even when he struggled, Lindegaard came into the team, but he was never as talented as De Gea, and it was always a case of IF De gea settled and played to his potential, he would be on the team. Same goes for players like Rooney and Ronaldo - all bought with a similar profile to the likes of Martial. These are players who leave their clubs if they are not playing. Thiago did just that at Barcelona. And the players keeping him out of the team were far better than those keeping out Martial.
So do you expect, like Mkhitaryan, Martial to become a fixture in the team very soon if he continues his form of the first month?
Spot on
He already is. He's never going to play every game with Rashford also needing minutes. Both are talented, both are being rotated and getting games.
The better part of 17 goals and 11 assists in a season coming from that position says you're more specialized in that than rashford
To change the formation to accommodate 2 strikers.
You're making too many absurd assumptions. There's no straight line comparison between Martial this season and Mkhi being kept out of the side last season. Mourinho has nothing but praise for Martials attitude and performances this season, and Martial is delivering goals and assists as well as playing good. Yet you want to believe that there's an hidden agenda going on, that it's some sort of a test, that Mourinho isn't all that happy with his attitude after all.
It's too many loopholes, when there's a much simpler alternative that's much more likely as well.
So Mourinho's words should be taken with a pinch of salt, as he has a hidden agenda to get even more out of Martial even though he's saying he's well happy with him, but Martials agent should be trusted like the words from god
Neither are being rotated
How aren't they?
Mourinho just praised him highly yesterday in the presser so sorry your theory about him not valuing him is just a total guesswork. You really should stop inventing theories when the manager and the kid are saying different things to your claims. It doesn't work like that anyway.
We get players in the attacking third with different characters and abilities and the manager chose from them the player with the ability that suited the game conditions best, not what he values most. He chose Martial as a sub and didn't play Lingard at all because he thought Martial ability in this game will be more needed. Against Everton he thought Lingard energy will refresh the team while keeping the defensive side of us balanced so put him earlier. Today we were defending heavily and Rashford was tracking back a lot so he didn't see a point of putting any other attacking player, he tried to control the midfield with Herrera but we failed so he decided to play it safely and put more defenders in the box. There was no point to put Martial today.
What you seem to not understand is Mourinho is pragmatic in everything even his selection of players. He doesn't care whose player he values most or who is his best player ability-wise. He chose the players that he thinks will secure him the victory, whatever the fans like it or not. If he thought during the game that Fellaini or Lingard will be the ones to secure him victory even if they're not of the same ability as Martial, he'll put them in. If he thought Martial skills abilities are needed, he'll put him in. As simple as that. All these conspiracy theories are just a guesswork with no evidence to back it up. Martial started games that Rashford was subbed in, and played in games Lingard didn't play, and the opposite happened. It's strange such things after Mourinho himself clarified it in his presser pre today match. Who said Martial is considered a squad player here ? Just because he won't start every match he's considered a squad player for Mourinho ffs. You're just proving my point by saying that, that if he doesn't start every match people will never be happy.
We bought De Gea to be a direct replacement for VDS and there wasn't any GK in the team that can compete with him as efficiently. This isn't the case of Martial whose position has enough competition with other players who have different attributes that are needed in some games, just as Martial's ability is needed in others.
Rashford has 5/6 starts in the Premier League, 300 mins more Premier League football than Martial who has played a whopping 2 mins of the past two Premier League matches. Rashford has played almost 75% of the total mins in the Premier League, Martial has 22%.
The fact that both started the cup match, and that Martial started against Basel, hardly makes it much of a rotation
Yes he was a striker who was turned to LW by LVG, unless you want to rewrite history, then it's up to you.
Mate, you're on a futile mission. These folks wouldn't understand no matter how much you try.Neither are being rotated
I remember clearly in preseason when Martial failed to start most of our games or got fewer minutes than most of our attackers or other players, and these same folks said it was all meaningless. They were wrong clearly because it was definitely a sign of things to come.
Martial then again failed to start our super cup game against Madrid and didn't even come on as a sub when we were chasing the game, with the likes of Lingard featuring instead and being shit as you'd expect, and the same folks claiming it didn't mean much.
Now considering he's been on the bench for 5 league games out of 6 and played a grand total of 122 minutes, what do you expect these same folks to say?
Martial might as well end the season with less than 10 starts in league and these same people would deny what's so fecking obvious. They were wrong then, and they are wrong now. Martial is currently a squad or bench player at best. Rashford, a good player but easily an inferior one to Martial the LW, is definitely first choice.
Can someone explain to me why we're supposed to worship Jose because of his treatment of Mkhi last season? People talk as if Mkhi has played like Maradona ever since being brought back.
Please explain.
Please explain.
Hilarious you only use his "last 2 games" as your sample space, yet barely touch on the Champions League, where Martial is seemingly preferred to Rashford. Rotation isn't just for the Premier League pal. We are competing in multiple competitions. Both are in decent form, both are young and talented and both are playing football. When (if?) Martial plays the majority or the full 90 at CSKA, the minutes difference between them two this season won't be much at all, especially considering Rashford has started most of the PL games (which we've had much more of than CL games).
The manager is going to play who he sees fit for the specific tactical set-up of the game. Had Martial played and was camped in our box as a LB, people on here would complain he's not being pushed up further enough, people just need something to whinge about.
My biggest gripe with Jose last season was not rotating and using the squad, now he's doing that and people are upset their best players aren't playing every minute of every game. We have 16 out of a possible 18 points and have started the season very well. When games start stacking up, players lose form and fatigue sets in, the fact that all these players are getting a run out will come in handy as all will be ready and raring to go.
Come a few months down the line, if Rashford is played into the ground, despite Martial being fresh when games are stacking up, then talk to me about no rotation. Until then, using the last two games when Martial has barely featured for specific circumstances to try and make a point just makes you look loopy
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He was hardly "turned" by Van Gaal as Jardim used him on the left more often than not at Monaco. He's always been best and most effective as an inside forward on the left.
I understand Rasford getting games as striker but he's average at best on any of the wings. He has zero skill, can't take on his man well enough and doesn't cut in on his right and shoot from the wing so why he plays on the left ahead of Martial is something I'm never going to understand. Martial is going to just have to wait for his chances but if he eventually got fed up and left, I'd not blame him at all. He's far too good to be sitting on the bench behind Rashford or Lingard.
When we bought him he was considered as a striker. Even last year many here were complaining about him should be playing as a striker.
Don't get me wrong he can be a brilliant LW that's not the point of the discussion, but history is history.
I'm not sure how you manage to interpret my post as if 2 games was the sample post. I can repeat myself if it was unclear:
- Rashford has started 5 out of the 6 Premier League matches. In terms of minutes, he has played 75% of our total minutes played.
- Martial has started 1/6 games. In terms of minutes, he has played 22% of our total minutes played
In terms of when he was subbed on. He got 10 mins against West Ham, 15 against Swansea, 76 against Leicester where he started, 18 against stoke, 2 against Everton, 0 against Southampton
Both have started a cup match against a second string championship side.
Martial starting an early group stage match against Basel doesn't make this into a rotation.
Rashford isn't being rotated, he's first choice, it's blindingly obvious.
Had Martial played and been as wank as Rashford today, or if he had played against Everton and been equally wank, he would've been hung out to dry here.
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Because everything he says is golden.
I've always maintained his form last season after his release from the "dungeon" was probably he because he was that good.
People have some bizarre love for Jose. Genuinely can't explain Jose getting any sort of praise for his "management" of Mkhi and Martial considering the seasons both of them had before Jose came here and ruined both their last seasons.
I'm inventing nothing, I'm basing my perception of the manager's value on his selections. Basically, simply due to tactics, he felt he 'didn't need Martial's qualities' from the start in 5 of 6 games this season then? Why would it be wrong to call him a squad player then? Rashford starts as many games as the likes of Pogba and De Gea. This is why I'm not calling him a squad player. A player who starts 1 league game in 6 while being fit is a squad player. Even if one game comes along one day and the boss thinks Martial is more suited and plays him, will that mean he isn't a squad player?
We bought De Gea to replace VDS, but he struggled, and he wasn't our only keeper. He was the most talented though, so it always stood that if he was on form, he would play.
Martial was bought for £60m after being labelled the best in the world of his age. I'm guessing the idea wasn't for him to play in the games 'where his attributes are needed' any more than it wouldn't be the idea if we bought Mbappé this summer. He was the most expensive teenager in world football. I put his profile similar to De Gea, Rooney and Ronaldo. Again, those players can't demand to play every game, but they can expect to if they are playing to the best of their abilities. Just like I can't see us dropping Pogba for 'tactical reasons'. Or a better example, Lukaku - even though our other strikers have 'different attributes'.
Anyway, I don't even want to be dragged into your 'conspiracy theorist' claims - my views are not as extreme as some others. My sole point, simply put, is that Martial is obviously not the least talented, nor in the worst form of all those selected ahead of him. For Jose to still ignore the form he is showing and not start him in the league tells me that he can't simply just 'play well enough to start'. If that were the case, he'd be in the team already, as he's playing well enough. It is more likely that the manager doesn't fancy him as much.
And I can understand why he wasn't brought on today a lot more why I can understand why he wasn't worthy of a start.
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