I'll like to believe that but I fear that he might end up being a jack of all trades kind of striker. It feels like his defensive output speaks for him more than his offensive as far as José is concerned.
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I don't know, I don't do stats
but in my humble opinion I suspect it's more his consistency than his ability that's the problem. Let's be honest though, he won't be the first young player in world football to have this trait.What Rashford did today was more important than what Martial did against Burton. Burton game was an easy win. This game was far from it. A 19 year old forward who at times played as deep as LB did not look out of place or flustered. That is phenomenal, as Jose would put it.
Rashford is picked because he is one our best forwards. Everything else that comes with him is a bonus.
Rashford is just better in that position and offers more. That's all it is.
He's better than anyone we have in attack bar Lukaku. The fact that Mata and Mkhi are both certain to start is incredibly annoying when neither are good enough to earn that privilege.
He doesn't rate him, it really is that simple. He'll be available for transfer unless something changes sharply. Maybe Martial was willing to give it a go for the second season however if a club like a Juve come calling, he'll answer. Still believe we sold our souls to the devil by hiring Jose. He isn't our sort of manager but we got him in out of desperation.
I don't know, I don't do stats
Playing consistently well isn't all that easy when you are left with scraps...like 2 mins of premiership football from the last two matches.
There's no room for him.
There's room for Lingard, someone who can play a smaller role and still accept it because his potential isn't high enough to make it at other top clubs.
Paolo Maldini like defensive performance
Yes because that's what's been said. Rashford is a strong part of our team and fully deserves all the games he's getting. Fantastic talent and will keep getting better. His explosiveness and movement is great. He adds to that with work rate and determination. We are so lucky to have him. Fantastic attitude on him, fantastic skillset to go with it.
After his performance against Everton, and his performance against Southampton, he should spend some time on the bench and hopefully he'll deliver better. Unless we intend to turn him into a new left back due to Shaws injury problems, where we can *** off to his defensive contributions.
I think the reasoning for that is obvious.
The reason why people struggle to see a far simpler and more logical explanation for Martial not playing is because his ability, and now, performances, do nothing to support such a decision. There is no confusion as to why Lingard doesn't start. There would be if Pogba or De Gea was not playing.
Martial will start many games this year. After all, 'it's a squad game', and we 'have many competitions'. The curiousity is why such a talent is not a key member of our first XI. A simple footballing argument is difficult to make, based on what we have seen not only of Martial since he joined us, but of all of the players who play ahead of him too.
Do you think people have just drawn Martial's name out of a hat to ask questions when not selected? Do you think we could have just as easily asked the same questions about Romero? It isn't complicated at all. Martial, in his first season, was our best forward player. In his second, he certainly wasn't, but one, he had already set a great level with us that we know he can reach, and secondly - NONE of those playing ahead of him managed to make a much more compelling case either. Those who are playing ahead of Martial have hardly been consistently brilliant themselves with us.
Perhaps Martial CAN play his way into the team at some point this season, who knows, but if he does - he will have to do so performing at a level far above, and for far longer, than anything his competitors had to do to earn their own spots in the first place. You would also imagine that to keep said spot, he would also have to perform far better than his competitors have been able to perform in order to still keep him out at the moment.
This then brings us to the theory of him leaving. You would imagine that abplayer of his ability and promise will not be content to feature so sporadically, 20mins a week if he is lucky. If it continues, while performing as he is, he will likely feel he deserves more, and if he isn't getting it here, he'll go elsewhere. I imagine Jose will then come out with his speech about it all being Martial's decision, and how he won't stand in his way if he wants to leave. If he's not getting a look in, of course he will want to.
More to do with him being a better defender than attacker when compared to Martial IMO.
Game of squad rotation. Every player has a role in the squad and clearly Jose has a plan to use this to our advantage.
Almost 99% sure Tony will be back to the starting XI on Wednesday vs. CSKA.
Almost 99% sure Tony will be back to the starting XI on Wednesday vs. CSKA.
And then back on the bench the very next game - regardless of how he performs.
It's barely a case of squad rotation when so far Rashford has close to 300mins more in the Premiership, 5/6 starts...
Martial will start against CSKA, as everyone else also believes, then no matter how he performs i'm 99% sure he'll be back on the bench for the Premier League. Which is the problem
Using cup games as arguments supporting that Martial is being rotated fairly and equally as his other teammates is hilarious.
Mkhi was shit last season...If Mkhi was providing assists and goals like Martial has done so far this season, you think he would've been out of the team as a test ?
He was out of the team fairly quickly if I remember right. Didn't even have time to be shit except in the 1 game against City. I have a hard time believing he was left out for 3 months for being "shit" for one game. And you call everyone else insane
incredible.Some of Mourinhos quotes regarding Mkhitaryans exclusion. Some eerie resemblences to how he's now handling Martial.
Now pipe the feck down.
Those are big assumptions. And the season is incredibly long. Not sure why everyone is so impatient these days.
Are you implying that a good goal against Burton Albion proves me wrong?
He was out of the team fairly quickly if I remember right. Didn't even have time to be shit except in the 1 game against City. I have a hard time believing he was left out for 3 months for being "shit" for one game. And you call everyone else insane
Some of Mourinhos quotes regarding Mkhitaryans exclusion. Some eerie resemblences to how he's now handling Martial.
There's no resemblence. Mkhi was shit, he was an utter disaster on the pitch and it was clear he needed time (thought it was a surprising just how much time he was out).
He then returned, played very well for a few matches, and returned to being shit again.
Do you really believe, that if Mkhi had arrived last summer and performed like Martial has so far this season, he would've been given a "test" ? Never in a million years
If Martial does actually leave for say, Juventus, will you go 'support' them?
A difference close to 300mins after 6 matches, having only been involved for 2 mins over the course of the two last matches, is pretty telling..
At the moment he's a second / third option depending on how the match is going, it's never in a million miles "rotation"
I think you're right.
Here is how it goes :
- Martial plays unbelievably well or is magnificent(as in Jose's words last season) : He gets himself in contention to start the next unimportant or cup game and hes definitely in the next match day squad(now whether he starts or even get a sub apparence if it's an important fixture is still not guaranteed).
- Martial has a decent/good game: He's certain not to start the next game but will probably be in the squad.
- Martial has an average game: He might make the squad but his chances aren't looking good.
- Martial pulls a Rashford like performance against Everton: He's definitely out of the squad and will be waiting until we have another disaster like performance to have a look in, meaning he's missing all important fixtures until he gets a cup game after sometimes out of the squad then on the bench and finally a 10 minutes cameos in a cup game(or he might start it if he's lucky).
These sort of scenarios aren't going to be helping anyone much no matter how talented they are. In fact that's an handicap.
- Martial plays unbelievably well or is magnificent(as in Jose's words last season) : He gets himself in contention to start the next unimportant or cup game and hes definitely in the next match day squad(now whether he starts or even get a sub apparence if it's an important fixture is still not guaranteed).
- Martial has a decent/good game: He's certain not to start the next game but will probably be in the squad.
- Martial has an average game: He might make the squad but his chances aren't looking good.
- Martial pulls a Rashford like performance against Everton: He's definitely out of the squad and will be waiting until we have another disaster like performance to have a look in, meaning he's missing all important fixtures until he gets a cup game after sometimes out of the squad then on the bench and finally a 10 minutes cameos in a cup game(or he might start it if he's lucky).
These sort of scenarios aren't going to be helping anyone much no matter how talented they are. In fact that's an handicap.
Telling what though?
If the player is not complaining and the manager is delivering the result, I think it's best for fans just to keep it shut rather than making mountains out of molehill. Besides, it's not like Jose is playing Bebe ahead of Martial. Rashford has more than enough proved that he deserves to keep his spot.
Rashford was utter wank against Everton, and he wasn't much better against Southampton today, so how does he deserve to keep his spot from that ?
Wow. I've just pointed you to proof of Jose doing the exact same thing, just last season, and it bares no resemblence? Talk about deluded
So in your black and white world, he was rubbish, got benched, returned and played well. Jose was just lying about all the interactions he talked about between him and Mkhitaryan? He was lying about how he believed it was better to give Mkhitaryan 90 minutes in the smaller games to build him up? How the feck can you not see what is going on here, I'm genuinely in awe of you.
I think where you are failing to grasp it is that Jose isn't concerned only about performances but attitude also. He wants players to improve. I can post more quotes if you like, including some on Martial and him wanting more than glimpses of his quality?
Spot on.
Wow. I've just pointed you to proof of Jose doing the exact same thing, just last season, and it bares no resemblence? Talk about deluded
So in your black and white world, he was rubbish, got benched, returned and played well. Jose was just lying about all the interactions he talked about between him and Mkhitaryan? He was lying about how he believed it was better to give Mkhitaryan 90 minutes in the smaller games to build him up? How the feck can you not see what is going on here, I'm genuinely in awe of you.
Why are you not answering my simple question. If Mkhi had arrived last summer and performed the way Martial has so far this season, do you think Mkhi would've been given a "test" and removed from the team like he was ?
When Mkhi arrived and was thrown out against City, it was clear as daylight that he was miles off from being ready for the Premiership
Scored two goals midweek?
Anyway, my understanding of the manager's job is to use his squad to the best of the available players' abilities and form to deliver the best result needed, and that's what's happening. Jose is not obliged to distribute equal minutes to every player.
Besides, you (or someone else) said it above, it's been all goddamn 6 matches in the league. Not even 1/6 of the season, and we're talking about who plays more than whom. All of this will look pretty stupid in a few months' time.
Are people really upset he didn't put Martial on at left back today?
Against Burtons reserves, even Lingard looked like Junior Messi out there..Point is that he was utter wank against Everton, ends up starting against Southampton for the next league match and is pretty much wank today as wel
It won't, in a few months it'll be the same picture, with Martial getting a few sub apperances here and there. Point is still the same, he doesn't have a long term future under Mourinho
We lost our identity after selling Danny 'local lad' Welbeck, imagine the outrage if we start benching or sell Rashford
Wow. I've just pointed you to proof of Jose doing the exact same thing, just last season, and it bares no resemblence? Talk about deluded
So in your black and white world, he was rubbish, got benched, returned and played well. Jose was just lying about all the interactions he talked about between him and Mkhitaryan? He was lying about how he believed it was better to give Mkhitaryan 90 minutes in the smaller games to build him up? How the feck can you not see what is going on here, I'm genuinely in awe of you.
I think where you are failing to grasp it is that Jose isn't concerned only about performances but attitude also. He wants players to improve. I can post more quotes if you like, including some on Martial and him wanting more than glimpses of his quality?
Think there are a few fundamental differences between both cases. You can't just dismiss the fact that Mkhitaryan actually played football poorly when given the chance. That is a contrast to Martial's current situation immediately, and one that naturally warrants a different approach. He started the derby, and I imagine if he had played then, like he did against Spurs a few months later - there would have been no such drama.
Secondly, Mkhitaryan had just come to the PL, another important point. Like Lindelof, his early form showed the need of a period of adaptation, one that Martial obviously doesn't need, having already starred in the PL, for a consistent period before Mourinho even joined the club.
Lastly, and of equal importance in my view - Mourinho actually signed Mkhitaryan. He was always intended to be integrated into his team, and providing he showed willingness, Mourinho had an obligation to justify his purchase in the first place. Martial, of course, was not signed by Jose - so the chances of him fitting into the manager's plans are of course less guaranteed. I imagine that had Jose been the manager who spent a joint-record £60m on Martial, the sort of performances he is showing now would most certainly see him as a regular. That's his man.
You'd be in for a big surprise if you leave out both Miki and Mata, our general attacking play is already pathetic, if you take out two of our best passers in the final third we'd end up with even more hiding like we got today.
I've just told you that it's about more than performances for Mourinho. I posted quotes where he talks about Mkhitaryan keeping his mouth shut and working hard. He mentioned just last week that he hadn't been happy with Martial's body language.
If Mkhitaryan had played exactly as he did last season but wasn't doing whatever it was Jose was referring to, he would have played more and not been left out for three months.
Hi Rashford's Mom.
You don't have to take both out but the fact that they're both a certainty to start when neither are outperforming Martial/Rashford on a consistent basis is crazy. Mkhi and Mata should have to compete, too, wouldn't you agree?
Of course there are differences in the circumstances, but there are also differences between Martial and Schweinsteiger/Depay/Schneiderlin, all of whom he actually did sell!
Read the quotes in my other post from Mourinho and how he handled Mkhitaryan and then try to tell me he isn't doin the same here. Or if you want to believe he dislikes Martial, at least accept that it's possible he's doing the same here.
The difference between Herrera's situation and martial's is that we clearly have better players ahead of the former while for the latter he seems to be better than his competitors for his role.
We have a specialist in martial for the LW role yet he's being forced to share it with someone who has never quite shone in that role for any decent amount of time and somehow it's acceptable 'cause we have "alot of games to play and we need a squad", well then let rashford alternate with lukaku for the CF role in which he has shown his best form in and then we'll see what the lukaku thread turns into.
Let's be honest with ourselves, rashford's best run of form last season came when he got a run of games as a CF last season so let him alternate with big Rom as we have alot of matches for them to share right?
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Never in a million years would he have left out Mkhi last season if he was performing from the get go and provided goals and assists, wouldn't have happened.
Mourinho can be as happy as he wants about Martials body language, smiling, training performance, performance in general, like the quotes from the press conference before Southampton, he's still no more than second / third choice behind Rashford and he still has no long term future at the club
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