[Adam-Utd]

The difference for me last night was Martial was helped by the LB, he wasn't isolated 2v1 every so often.

They also didn't try and restrict the space, they made a game of it and Martial in space is deadly, he can have any fullback on toast 1v1.

His link up play was much better than usual last night also which really drove up his confidence.

If we can get him in that sort of mood regularly he will be world class.

 

[MThomas]

Glad you have it all figured out. Makes sense since Mourinho refused overtures from Inter for him this summer.

They proposed what, a loan deal arrangement that only benefited one side.

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

He has scored three goals while coming off the bench for 10-15 minutes. You cannot possibly ask more, and yesterday's game was a reminder of how talented he is. He was also quite good against Leicester in his only league start so far. Yes, it is frustrating because I like watching him play and I think out of all our attacking players, he has the potential to become the best of them, but it won't happen if he doesn't play. That's why I was talking about loan, sending him to Inter, Roma, Sevilla or Valencia (or any other good Italian or Spanish team) for two years would be great development opportunity for him. I think loan is still an opportunity for the next Summer.

He hasn't been so much worse than his competition either, yet he plays less.

Let me get this straight... This season, when we've scored 23 goals in 7 games and conceded 3...but you've been frustrated because Martial (goal every 40 minutes in the Premier League) is doing well, but has played limited minutes; because Rashford is also doing well (5 goals)... as is Lukaku (top goal scorer), as is Mkhitaryan (top for assists).

So your solution is to have Martial score goals and create assists for someone else for 2 years, so that if Rashford or Lukaku get injured we don't have cover. This all in the name of developing a player away from Jose Mourinho, one of the best coaches in the world... away from the facilities of the richest club in the world, and away from the Premier League. If we send Martial on loan for 2 years we have to buy a replacement. Your other point is that if he doesn't play more than Rashford that we should sell him, because he has the potential to be a star... why on earth would we want him to be a star for someone else? We paid huge money for a teenager, we've been developing him into a very good player with some quite unique attributes. He's twenty f'ing one, and in good form, enjoying his football, and clearly developing. Give it time.

 

[AR87]

They proposed what, a loan deal arrangement that only benefited one side.

A proposition that would have landed Mourinho a player he earmarked at the start of the summer to strengthen the squad at the cost of loaning a player you claim he sees zero future for with his squad.

 

[MThomas]

A proposition that would have landed Mourinho a player he earmarked at the start of the summer to strengthen the squad at the cost of loaning a player you claim he sees zero future for with his squad.

Also requires the player to be interested in a loan move to Inter.

 

[pocco]

Not sure why this is being overcomplicated ala "maybe he's treating him differently because he expects so much more"

Maybe, just maybe, he was an expensive signing under another manager and Mourinho doesn't really like him, would never have signed him if he was in charge.

Playing well against Burton Albion is little to write home about, it's a championship side. Good for the confidence, but not much more interesting than that

Martial under Mourinho is never going to be offered the same chance as other players to find consistency, play through a bad patch etc. If the roles was swapped vs Everton and Martial was the one playing as badly as Rashford, he'd be nowhere near the first team for the foreseeable future. Rashford will more likely than not end up starting at the weekend. Simply because one has a long term future at the club, while the other one is going to fund someone the manager wants.

The plan is always going to be to get as much money as possible for Martial in the summer transfer window. If there's interest from Antoine to join us in January, we'll splash the cash and that's it.

Or maybe he is pushing Martial because he knows, like we do, that he is capable of being great.

And Griezmann doesn't play LW.

 

[Turnip]

If we stay in a few competitions he'll get game time no problem, he's been ace this season and last night his footwork (all-be-it against Burton) was incredible at times, reminded me of what he did to that Liverpool defense when he first got here. No way this guy doesn't have a great future ahead of him if he keeps putting in the effort and getting chances, even if he had a bad last season. Would be a disaster if we sold/loaned him out imo, and recon that's probably why we didn't get any other wingers in.

 

[AR87]

Also requires the player to be interested in a loan move to Inter.

Oh so Martial didn't want to move some place he'd likely have been guaranteed to start every week and instead chose to stay to fight for a place at United, something he knew wouldn't be gifted to him after last season.

That's it, he's off then next summer. Glad we got that sorted out.

 

[Jeffthered]

Skimmed thru this, martials predictable finishing style ?? Haha, gimme a break.

He's the most talented player we've got, by a mile , and hopefully we will get to see the best of him.

Are you being serious? Martial does have good talent, but I do think his game needs to continue to develop. His decision making isn't the best, he starts games very slowly when he is picked, and watching him recently, I actually feel he is complicating his game. I also think he needs to vary his game... beat opponents on the outside more often, work, considerably on improving his left foot .. his finishing needs to vary too, cannot always open body up and side foot into the net. Look at a player like Mane. Starts in a similar position, but has far more of a presence on the whole attacking game of his team. Martial plays on the margins and he doesn't have to.. I could say the same re Mata, Lindgaard, and Mikitahriyan... they need to look at Rashford, Mane.. Silva.. these players affect games.

Martial has to prove whether he can develop and apply his own game. No excuses. Thing is, he is at his best when he keeps things simple, and he should utilize his pace and power more often. Talent is only as good as it's application.

 

[JJ12]

Anyone got a highlight video?

 

[MThomas]

Or maybe he is pushing Martial because he knows, like we do, that he is capable of being great.

And Griezmann doesn't play LW.

Who said anything about playing Antoine at left wing ?

 

[MThomas]

Or maybe he is pushing Martial because he knows, like we do, that he is capable of being great.

And Griezmann doesn't play LW.

Who said anything about playing Antoine at left wing ?

 

[pocco]

Who said anything about playing Antoine at left wing ?

It sounded like you were trying to say that signing Griezmann would mean "that's it" and it would be the end of Martial. Or else why mention it?

 

[MThomas]

Oh so Martial didn't want to move some place he'd likely have been guaranteed to start every week and instead chose to stay to fight for a place at United, something he knew wouldn't be gifted to him after last season.

That's it, he's off then next summer. Glad we got that sorted out.

Why would he be all that interested in a move to Inter, the team is a complete mess.

Come summer he'll push for a move, we'll hopefully get a decent fee and fund someone Mourinho wants. I'll be happy to make a bet.

 

[MThomas]

It sounded like you were trying to say that signing Griezmann would mean "that's it" and it would be the end of Martial. Or else why mention it?

It would be the end of him as i reckon his sale is going to help fund the signing of Antoine, not that the intention is to play the fecker on the left wing. Had we signed Antoine during the summer window, i reckon Mourinho would've done his bit to push Martial out the door. Attack wise we would've been all set anyways.

 

[MuFc_1992]

Why would he be all that interested in a move to Inter, the team is a complete mess.

Come summer he'll push for a move, we'll hopefully get a decent fee and fund someone Mourinho wants. I'll be happy to make a bet.

Funds mean f*** all in this day and age whereas players like Martial are few and far between.

 

[pocco]

Why would he be all that interested in a move to Inter, the team is a complete mess.

Come summer he'll push for a move, we'll hopefully get a decent fee and fund someone Mourinho wants. I'll be happy to make a bet.

Inter are actually doing well at the moment.

If Martial plays well enough then he won't get sold imo. I think Jose and the club know that the fans love the guy and I'm sure it will be one of Jose's objectives to get one of our most expensive signings playing well. I can't say you're wrong because we don't know, but it really won't go down well if it happens. Especially if he has a good season and keeps scoring.

 

[Dion]

Mourinho will back Martial as long as he shows fight. Mourinho isn't big on letting players go unless they've given up completely and want to leave.

 

[AR87]

Why would he be all that interested in a move to Inter, the team is a complete mess.

Come summer he'll push for a move, we'll hopefully get a decent fee and fund someone Mourinho wants. I'll be happy to make a bet.

If you're happy to make a bet then go to a bookie and have him draw you up some odds. Just happy you have it all figured out.

 

[JohnnyKills]

He's definitely better as a winger than a central striker. Not an out-and-out winger but someone who starts on the left and cuts in. If you make him play with his back to goal, you cut off his dribbling threat. He's one of the best dribblers in the world so that would make no sense.

 

[kr0nix]

People need to stop calling both him and Valencia 'Tony'.
Just write Martial and Valencia....please....

No.

 

[MThomas]

Inter are actually doing well at the moment.

If Martial plays well enough then he won't get sold imo. I think Jose and the club know that the fans love the guy and I'm sure it will be one of Jose's objectives to get one of our most expensive signings playing well. I can't say you're wrong because we don't know, but it really won't go down well if it happens. Especially if he has a good season and keeps scoring.

They've played 5 matches.

Fans are fickle, replace him with a shiny new toy and no one will be bothered.

 

[kr0nix]

Just thinking of ways to get him playing and starting regularly in the middle, running at defences. Could he drop slightly back and play a 9.5/10 in 4231?

This is an interesting idea. I had the same thought last season in the game against Sot'n:



Notice the position he receives the ball in, between midfield and defence, the ideal no. 10 position. The defenders are forced to retreat, opening up room for a shot that hits the post.
We all know that he likes to receive the ball to feet before dribbling, that's the nature of his game. PL managers have attempted to counter this by dropping off with cover from the winger, so as to force him onto his left or lay the ball off, which limits his effectiveness. Thus he would theoretically benefit from receiving the ball in a position that allows him to turn and run at defenders, but I'm not sure how well it could work in practice.

EDIT: Mane plays in a similar position very effectively for Liverpool (and previously Sot'n)

 

[bosnian_red]

His dribbling this season has been insanely good. Goes past people for fun, whereas even thay was inconsistent last year. Just find a way to play both him and rashford alongside lukaku (rashford on the right...) and we'll be great to watch.

 

[Raees]

This is an interesting idea. I had the same thought last season in the game against Sot'n:



Notice the position he receives the ball in, between midfield and defence, the ideal no. 10 position. The defenders are forced to retreat, opening up room for a shot that hits the post.
We all know that he likes to receive the ball to feet before dribbling, that's the nature of his game. PL managers have attempted to counter this by dropping off with cover from the winger, so as to force him onto his left or lay the ball off, which limits his effectiveness. Thus he would theoretically benefit from receiving the ball in a position that allows him to turn and run at defenders, but I'm not sure how well it could work in practice.

EDIT: Mane plays in a similar position very effectively for Liverpool (and previously Sot'n)

Could something like that work (lopsided 4-3-3).. Lemar providing constant width down the left, allowing Martial more freedom to roam.. or maybe we just get a very attacking left back who can be our Valencia down the left and lets Martial play further inside instead of stationed on the left flank.

 

[Acole9]

I liked it how Rowett had seemingly forgotten about how good he was in his first season, saying he hasn't really made an impact yet.

He was quality last night though, enjoyed watching him and thoroughly deserved his goal.

 

[NotQuiteManc]

It's surely only a matter of time before Mourinho caves and tries him and Rashford on either side of Lukaku to get them both on the pitch at the same time. Unless he genuinely doesn't think Rashford can play on that side of the pitch, but that would be odd given the number of great performances he's put in from that position in the past, and the number of times this season he's found himself out there for one reason or another anyway.

Obviously Mata was superb yesterday too but as a #10, the position he should naturally be competing with Miki for.

I think those three, MLR combo will come later in the season, hopefully when United is through to latter stages of the UCL.

I remember SAF used the Hargreaves on RM tactics later in that season where United did the double. Hopefully that would be the case today.

Sort of secret weapon

 

[Akshay]

Not necessarily. The idea of a footballer competing for a place is not new to anyone! I think the issue is that usually, a young player comes through and tries to take the place of someone already established in the team.

The scenario that is being created (unnecessarily in my view), is for ultimately, only one of Rashford and Martial to 'make it'. Competition is great, but I wouldn't want to see Mbappé and Dembele at the same club both competing for the left wing spot. Both should be playing, both are good enough to make it and start regularly for a top club. I don't want Rashford to compete with Martial long term. I want a long term attack with Rashford and Martial in it. They can't possibly both be world class players sharing a role in the team.

It is rare that a top team's two options for a spot are both 20 years old. Imagine a club had both Ronaldo and Messi in a situation where, long term one will play and one will probably be sold. Both those players need to be on the pitch.

The way things are looking, unless we start playing one on the right, which I think we should - one will likely be our left winger for years, and the other will leave and be someone else's.

Footballer positions aren't so fixed that they can't change during different phases of their careers, and especially so for attacking players. Messi debuted at Barca on the right as a foil to Ronaldinho on the left, then ended up transitioning to the main central attacker and then again back a little deeper. Right now Rashford and Martial are competing for the same place but that could change as soon as next season. I think long term Rashford aspires to be an out and out striker anyway.

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

Wait, are people in this thread actually saying that we might sell Martial this Summer? wut?

 

[Akshay]

It would be the end of him as i reckon his sale is going to help fund the signing of Antoine, not that the intention is to play the fecker on the left wing. Had we signed Antoine during the summer window, i reckon Mourinho would've done his bit to push Martial out the door. Attack wise we would've been all set anyways.

Mourinho was unhappy that Pereira went on loan because he feels it leaves us short on numbers. Given we're mostly playing 4-2-3-1 you'd expect us to have about eight attackers and we've got six. The claim that Martial would have been allowed to leave if we'd signed another attacker is based on nothing.

 

[MThomas]

Mourinho was unhappy that Pereira went on loan because he feels it leaves us short on numbers. Given we're mostly playing 4-2-3-1 you'd expect us to have about eight attackers and we've got six. The claim that Martial would have been allowed to leave if we'd signed another attacker is based on nothing.

It's based on the suggestion that Mourinho doesn't like Martial as a player and that he isn't part of the long term plans. Feel free to disagree with that, but it's a long way from claiming that it's based on nothing.

 

[Sarni]

Let me get this straight... This season, when we've scored 23 goals in 7 games and conceded 3...but you've been frustrated because Martial (goal every 40 minutes in the Premier League) is doing well, but has played limited minutes; because Rashford is also doing well (5 goals)... as is Lukaku (top goal scorer), as is Mkhitaryan (top for assists).

So your solution is to have Martial score goals and create assists for someone else for 2 years, so that if Rashford or Lukaku get injured we don't have cover. This all in the name of developing a player away from Jose Mourinho, one of the best coaches in the world... away from the facilities of the richest club in the world, and away from the Premier League. If we send Martial on loan for 2 years we have to buy a replacement. Your other point is that if he doesn't play more than Rashford that we should sell him, because he has the potential to be a star... why on earth would we want him to be a star for someone else? We paid huge money for a teenager, we've been developing him into a very good player with some quite unique attributes. He's twenty f'ing one, and in good form, enjoying his football, and clearly developing. Give it time.

I would assume we will buy someone older and someone that Mourinho feels could contribute to the first team in the meantime. I think for a young footballer it's essential to play in order to develop. I honestly cannot think of too many examples of top talents who would spend a few season on the bench and still go on to become top players. Even players like Henry quickly left (at Juventus) to find first team football because it was hurting their development.

The team has been playing very well and I am happy with it. It doesn't mean I cannot point out that I'd like some players to feature more (or less).

 

[MThomas]

away from Jose Mourinho, one of the best coaches in the world...

Lukaku ? Kevin De Bruyne ?

 

[Akshay]

It's based on the suggestion that Mourinho doesn't like Martial as a player and that he isn't part of the long term plans. Feel free to disagree with that, but it's a long way from claiming that it's based on nothing.

And what's that suggestion based on then? If Mourinho doesn't rate a player he doesn't play them and gets rid quick. Check out how many minutes Schneiderlin got and how fast he got sold.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Just thinking of ways to get him playing and starting regularly in the middle, running at defences. Could he drop slightly back and play a 9.5/10 in 4231?

352 pre season I thought he and Lukaku played it brilliantly especially with Miki behind them. Last night the team had taken their foot off the gas and Lingard really needed to be more positionally aware as he was supposed to be the link between attack and midfield .

Martial for me comes alive centrally but in that 352 he did drift out wide but so did Lukaku and that opened up the middle for Miki and Pogba. Throw in Two WB's Shaw and Valencia and all of a sudden that becomes intresting.

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

That's why I was talking about loan, sending him to Inter, Roma, Sevilla or Valencia (or any other good Italian or Spanish team) for two years would be great development opportunity for him.

He's starting to speak English and looks happy for the first time in two years. It would be terrible for his development.

It's based on the suggestion that Mourinho doesn't like Martial as a player and that he isn't part of the long term plans. Feel free to disagree with that, but it's a long way from claiming that it's based on nothing.

It's based on nothing. Mourinho doesn't mess around. If he wants you out of the team then you're gone. If you're not doing your job to his liking, you get frozen out until you can. Martial came on as a sub, did well, then started, didn't do great, and then went back to being a sub again.

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

And what's that suggestion based on then? If Mourinho doesn't rate a player he doesn't play them and gets rid quick. Check out how many minutes Schneiderlin got and how fast he got sold.

Also Schweinsteiger and Rooney.

 

[Rozay]

Footballer positions aren't so fixed that they can't change during different phases of their careers, and especially so for attacking players. Messi debuted at Barca on the right as a foil to Ronaldinho on the left, then ended up transitioning to the main central attacker and then again back a little deeper. Right now Rashford and Martial are competing for the same place but that could change as soon as next season. I think long term Rashford aspires to be an out and out striker anyway.

This is true, but if there is such resistance to playing them on the right, then the competition comes down to one of two places. We just broke our record for a player to play one of them long term. The two uncertain positions in attack are left and right, and neither are being tried on the right.

 

[MThomas]

And what's that suggestion based on then? If Mourinho doesn't rate a player he doesn't play them and gets rid quick. Check out how many minutes Schneiderlin got and how fast he got sold.

Didn't have anyone decent to replace him with after Antoine changed his mind.

In terms of the suggestion itself, it's merely based on the fact that not once under Mourinho has Martial been offered the chance to progress over time and earn a first team spot. That luxury is reserved for other players. It's always been about having to play amazingly well constantly in order to earn a starting place for the next match. Given the age of the player it's unlikely to happen, needs to be allowed to have patches of not playing well. It won't take long for his bench cameos to be less effective, Rashford will be back to starting the majority of the PL games.

 

[tavtavtav]

Also Schweinsteiger and Rooney.

And Memphis. What's more is, I can't recall Mourinho ever complaining about these guys or their attitude etc at all. Or even talking about them much. Then you see Mkhitaryan and Luke Shaw still here (for the time being atleast).