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2017-18 Performances


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6.1 Season Average Rating
Appearances
45
Goals
11
Assists
11
Yellow cards
1
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Love him. Shame he only got one goal really, but an overall excellent game anyway.

It does seem as though he tries that finish (the one where he ran through the defence and was denied by their keeper) almost every time he gets a chance. He opens his body up so wide that it isn't hard to tell where he's going to put it even if you hadn't done your homework.
 
Dembele, can dribble on his left or right. Makes him more unpredictable.
But his close control is not as good as Martial's IMO. I think Martial's dribbling is similar to Messi's whereas Dembele mostly relies on tricks to get past players like Neymar or young Ronaldo.
 
Obvious exaggeration by many here who are going on and on about how he won't play at all.

After first 2 league games where we won 4-0
Vs Leicester - Martial Started
Vs Stoke - Rashford started
Vs Basel - Martial started
Vs Everton - Rashford started
Vs Burton - Both started.

It's easy to see both are getting alternate starts, not sure how good that will be for both players but after first 2 league games both have started in alternate games.

After the games he didn't start, he started lots. Lol.

He's started 1 league game to Rashford's 4. And Mata's 4, who shouldn't be left out of this discussion in my opinion.

Of Rashford, Mkhitaryan, Mata and himself - he's clearly been the odd one out.
 
After the games he didn't start, he started lots. Lol.

He's started 1 league game to Rashford's 4. And Mata's 4, who shouldn't be left out of this discussion in my opinion.

Of Rashford, Mkhitaryan, Mata and himself - he's clearly been the odd one out.

He started 1 CL game compared to 0 for Rashford. First 2 gmaes he didn't start, after that both started in alternate games. Not sure why you moan about it so early in the season.

It's hard to have any meaningful discussion with Martial FCs, so yeah we can agree to disagree before itself rather than posting shit loads of posts.
 
He started 1 CL game compared to 0 for Rashford. First 2 gmaes he didn't start, after that both started in alternate games. Not sure why you moan about it so early in the season.

It's hard to have any meaningful discussion with Martial FCs, so yeah we can agree to disagree before itself rather than posting shit loads of posts.

Oh go away. Was hardly moaning, was questioning why you would delete games that Martial didn't start from your analysis. How on earth can that give any sort of picture?!
 
Oh go away. Was hardly moaning, was questioning why you would delete games that Martial didn't start from your analysis. How on earth can that give any sort of picture?!

Because Rashford started as first choice in the first league game and he was the one who opened up the defense for Lukaku's goal. There wasn't a need to change the team for Swansea away.

Then Rashford didn't contribute much in that game and from then on it was alternate starts with the player coming off the bench always scoring rather than the player starting.
 
Because Rashford started as first choice in the first league game and he was the one who opened up the defense for Lukaku's goal. There wasn't a need to change the team for Swansea away.

Then Rashford didn't contribute much in that game and from then on it was alternate starts with the player coming off the bench always scoring rather than the player starting.

There's nothing wrong with that per se, but there is also room for others to use the same information to support a theory that Martial isn't valued as highly. The fact that Rashford started as first choice itself is an indication of that. Both were fit. Martial had an impressive pre-season (despite starting just one game), so it was clear Jose went with Rashford as first choice. If Martial hadn't kicked the bloody door down in two sub appearances (which the odds were certainly against him to do), likely there would have been less flip-flopping and he would have just had to 'wait' like Herrera.

Some people, as is their entitlement, feel the hierarchy should be different. Others don't, as they are equally entitled to think. The point is, the task appears to have been set for Martial to take a place that belongs to Rashford. Rashford is also a fantastic player, so if he does reasonably well, which he will, he will probably remain first choice, as however marginal that decision, that appears to have been the plan at the beginning of the season.

All this is Jose's right to do. What I don't get is the notion of 'Martial should continue being a substitute as a reward for how well he's performed as a sub'.

They should just both play tbh.
 
Other players get away with average performances more often. He has started one league game so far and played 35 minutes in the other 4, he does play very little. Compare that to Rashford who has started 4 games and played 23 minutes in the one he did not start.
Ever stopped thinking that is because Mourinho expects much more from him as he knows he's one of the most talented players in the squad ? IMHO Mourinho is managing him perfectly and everything works out well, Martial will be a much stronger player from a psychological POV. It's not like there is day light difference between him and Rashford in terms of output anyway so why should he play more ?

I don't think that is true really. In a 1v1 against a goalkeeper, there is always a short moment in which you can just put it underneath the reach of the keeper. That is what he tries to do, but his timing was just a bit off, as well as his placement of the shot. Not that big of a deal really. It happens.

I am sure he will switch it up when he sees the gap is bigger in the short corner, but most of the times it will be easiest for him to put it away in the right as it's the easier shot. If the timing is right, it will always go in.
I don't agree for this particular instance. Martial predictably went for that side, it made it easier for the keeper to read and anticipate.

There's nothing wrong with that per se, but there is also room for others to use the same information to support a theory that Martial isn't valued as highly. The fact that Rashford started as first choice itself is an indication of that. Both were fit. Martial had an impressive pre-season (despite starting just one game), so it was clear Jose went with Rashford as first choice. If Martial hadn't kicked the bloody door down in two sub appearances (which the odds were certainly against him to do), likely there would have been less flip-flopping and he would have just had to 'wait' like Herrera.

Some people, as is their entitlement, feel the hierarchy should be different. Others don't, as they are equally entitled to think. The point is, the task appears to have been set for Martial to take a place that belongs to Rashford. Rashford is also a fantastic player, so if he does reasonably well, which he will, he will probably remain first choice, as however marginal that decision, that appears to have been the plan at the beginning of the season.

All this is Jose's right to do. What I don't get is the notion of 'Martial should continue being a substitute as a reward for how well he's performed as a sub'.


They should just both play tbh.
I agree. It's not easy for Mourinho to satisfy everyone in terms of playing time, specially when the players he's got, are more or less similar in terms of stats. They all have their + and -.
There needs be to huge difference between Martial and Rashford for him to play more and at the moment there isn't.
 
There's nothing wrong with that per se, but there is also room for others to use the same information to support a theory that Martial isn't valued as highly. The fact that Rashford started as first choice itself is an indication of that. Both were fit. Martial had an impressive pre-season (despite starting just one game), so it was clear Jose went with Rashford as first choice. If Martial hadn't kicked the bloody door down in two sub appearances (which the odds were certainly against him to do), likely there would have been less flip-flopping and he would have just had to 'wait' like Herrera.

Some people, as is their entitlement, feel the hierarchy should be different. Others don't, as they are equally entitled to think. The point is, the task appears to have been set for Martial to take a place that belongs to Rashford. Rashford is also a fantastic player, so if he does reasonably well, which he will, he will probably remain first choice, as however marginal that decision, that appears to have been the plan at the beginning of the season.

All this is Jose's right to do. What I don't get is the notion of 'Martial should continue being a substitute as a reward for how well he's performed as a sub'.

They should just both play tbh.

I agree with the last point. They both should start and should interchange positions often.
 
But his close control is not as good as Martial's IMO. I think Martial's dribbling is similar to Messi's whereas Dembele mostly relies on tricks to get past players like Neymar or young Ronaldo.
It doesn't truly matter though if the result is the same no (as in getting past the player) ?
 
I agree with the last point. They both should start and should interchange positions often.

At their stages, they both need to be let loose to play 40-50 games if they are to become the players they can be. Being a sub will likely stunt their growth a bit now. Both are physically ready.
 
Ever stopped thinking that is because Mourinho expects much more from him as he knows he's one of the most talented players in the squad ? IMHO Mourinho is managing him perfectly and everything works out well, Martial will be a much stronger player from a psychological POV. It's not like there is day light difference between him and Rashford in terms of output anyway so why should he play more ?

Why should he play less? Radford has started 4 out of our 5 league games and played more in the other one than Martial played in any of his off the bench games.

I don't buy the he expects more from him. He should not be benched because he is more talented than other players. A player of his potential should be starting 25 games a season minimum. At this rate he will start maybe 15 league games this year. He would be better off on loan if it's the way it's going to be.
 
At their stages, they both need to be let loose to play 40-50 games if they are to become the players they can be. Being a sub will likely stunt their growth a bit now. Both are physically ready.

I don't full agree with "Being a sub will likely stunt their growth a bit now". Competition is always good for player development. Rashford last week commented how both are pushing each other to improve all the time. Saying that balance is very important, so would love to see both of them starting in many games.
 
I don't full agree with "Being a sub will likely stunt their growth a bit now". Competition is always good for player development. Rashford last week commented how both are pushing each other to improve all the time. Saying that balance is very important, so would love to see both of them starting in many games.

I guess that's true. My main point is they simply need enough football to develop properly, which I guess they may just about get.
 
Why should he play less? Radford has started 4 out of our 5 league games and played more in the other one than Martial played in any of his off the bench games.

I don't buy the he expects more from him. He should not be benched because he is more talented than other players.
Because Rashford had a better previous season than him and Mourinho is rewarding for that and his continiuous good performances. You're talking as if Martial is delivering some performances that are wayyy much better than Rashford's. At the end of the day we're all speculating and if it's not because Mourinho expects more and isn't fully satisfied, why the hell else would he not play this seemingly genius one a kind player that you rate so much ? I mean why play him at all then ? You're all hinting it's a personal reason now that is making Mourinho not play him more
 
Skimmed thru this, martials predictable finishing style ?? Haha, gimme a break.

He's the most talented player we've got, by a mile , and hopefully we will get to see the best of him.
 
I guess that's true. My main point is they simply need enough football to develop properly, which I guess they may just about get.

I'm more optimistic than most here, so I'm sure both will get plenty of games this season. Instead of one or the other, I want both of them to start as even from Van Gaal time, they combined really well. They play well together.
 
Because Rashford had a better previous season than him and Mourinho is rewarding for that and his continiuous good performances. You're talking as if Martial is delivering some performances that are wayyy much better than Rashford's. At the end of the day we're all speculating and if it's not because Mourinho expects more and isn't fully satisfied, why the hell else would he not play this seemingly genius one a kind player that you rate so much ? I mean why play him at all then ? You're all hinting it's a personal reason now that is making Mourinho not play him more

He is not a genius one of a kind player, but he's a great talent that needs to play in order to develop. He has been playing less than any of our main attacking players other than maybe Lingard and it's not good because potential wise he is IMO better than all of them. If he is going to be used once in a blue moon then I believe we should send him on loan or sell him. Letting him play for 3 minutes against Everton is silly.

And yes, I suspect Mourinho might simply not particularly like him as a player and being our manager he is entitled to that opinion.
 
This thread has been really boring since last season. You can't simply praise Martial without either saying he's better than Rashford or complaining about manager not treating him well or not playing him enough. The debate between Martial and Rashford has been the worst thing I have seen in this forum since I entered it.

Martial is playing well, starting games and benched another, same for Rashford who also started some games and got benched in others. They'll be rotating like this through the season and they'll both get enough game time. Some people simply won't be satisfied unless Martial plays every minute every match. I'm starting to think they are worried about Martial future more than what the club will do itself.

He won't start every match and same goes for Rashford, neither of them at this point have cemented this place for him and it's always exciting to see 2 young talents competing for a spot. We should be pleased by that, but it's doesn't seem like that here. Strange..
 
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He is not a genius one of a kind player, but he's a great talent that needs to play in order to develop. He has been playing less than any of our main attacking players other than maybe Lingard and it's not good because potential wise he is IMO better than all of them. If he is going to be used once in a blue moon then I believe we should send him on loan or sell him. Letting him play for 3 minutes against Everton is silly.

And yes, I suspect Mourinho might simply not particularly like him as a player and being our manager he is entitled to that opinion.
Another ridiculous exagerration. How the hell can you say it's silly to play him for 3 minutes against Everton when the result is what it is :wenger: ? Why are so obsessed like that by him ? Something truly weird going on here. We won 4-0 and you're complaining he didn't play more... Glad to know where your priorities are then.

This thread has been really boring since last season. You can't simply praise Martial without either saying he's better than Rashford or complaining about manager not treating him well or not playing him enough. The debate between Martial and Rashford has been the worst thing I have seen in this forum since I entered it.

Martial is playing well, starting games and benched another, same for Rashford who also started some games and got benched in others. They'll be rotating like this through the season and they'll both get enough game time. Some people simply won't be satisfied unless Martial plays every minute every match. I'm starting to think they are worried about Martial future more than what the club will do itself.

He won't start every match and same goes for Rashford, neither of them at this point have cemented this place for him and it's always exciting to see 2 young talents competing for a spot. We should be pleases by that, but it's doesn't seem like that here. Strange..
It really is as simple as what you just posted.
 
In his 12 or so minutes.

I didn't watch the game last night. Saw only some of his dribbles. If he was as good as people say then Jose could start him vs Soton. Why not? I think there is a decent chance for that.
 
I didn't watch the game last night. Saw only some of his dribbles. If he was as good as people say then Jose could start him vs Soton. Why not? I think there is a decent chance for that.
Mata and Rashford were subbed off which suggests they'll be the ones starting. I expect the team will be the same as we played against Everton with Martial getting on for the last 5-10 minutes.

The game against Southampton is on Saturday at 3pm and Martial played 90 minutes last night compared to 45-60 for the other two players.
 
It doesn't truly matter though if the result is the same no (as in getting past the player) ?
It matters because ability to skip past players with ball glued to your feet in tight spaces will lead to more chances. How often do you see players skip past 2-3 players in the penalty box using tricks?
 
Another ridiculous exagerration. How the hell can you say it's silly to play him for 3 minutes against Everton when the result is what it is :wenger: ? Why are so obsessed like that by him ? Something truly weird going on here. We won 4-0 and you're complaining he didn't play more... Glad to know where your priorities are then.

Martial is not my priority, far from that. I even said in the preseason that I would actually not mind him being sold because he isn't really an important part of the team. It just baffles me why despite doing so well when called upon he has been marginalized while pretty much all other attacking players have got time and manager's patience.
 
It matters because ability to skip past players with ball glued to your feet in tight spaces will lead to more chances. How often do you see players skip past 2-3 players in the penalty box using tricks?
As often as players getting past them with the ball glued to their feet. You're talking about a select number of players in the world who do that consistently and besides Dembelé isn't all tricks, just like Neymar isn't all tricks. They often use body feints and change of directions. I personally think there ain't much between the two in terms of dribbling
 
Mata and Rashford were subbed off which suggests they'll be the ones starting. I expect the team will be the same as we played against Everton with Martial getting on for the last 5-10 minutes.

The game against Southampton is on Saturday at 3pm and Martial played 90 minutes last night compared to 45-60 for the other two players.

Yeah he won't start. He might get final 10 minutes as you say. I expect him to be used more in the next CL fixture.
 
This thread has been really boring since last season. You can't simply praise Martial without either saying he's better than Rashford or complaining about manager not treating him well or not playing him enough. The debate between Martial and Rashford has been the worst thing I have seen in this forum since I entered it.

Martial is playing well, starting games and benched another, same for Rashford who also started some games and got benched in others. They'll be rotating like this through the season and they'll both get enough game time. Some people simply won't be satisfied unless Martial plays every minute every match. I'm starting to think they are worried about Martial future more than what the club will do itself.

He won't start every match and same goes for Rashford, neither of them at this point have cemented this place for him and it's always exciting to see 2 young talents competing for a spot. We should be pleased by that, but it's doesn't seem like that here. Strange..

Not necessarily. The idea of a footballer competing for a place is not new to anyone! I think the issue is that usually, a young player comes through and tries to take the place of someone already established in the team.

The scenario that is being created (unnecessarily in my view), is for ultimately, only one of Rashford and Martial to 'make it'. Competition is great, but I wouldn't want to see Mbappé and Dembele at the same club both competing for the left wing spot. Both should be playing, both are good enough to make it and start regularly for a top club. I don't want Rashford to compete with Martial long term. I want a long term attack with Rashford and Martial in it. They can't possibly both be world class players sharing a role in the team.

It is rare that a top team's two options for a spot are both 20 years old. Imagine a club had both Ronaldo and Messi in a situation where, long term one will play and one will probably be sold. Both those players need to be on the pitch.

The way things are looking, unless we start playing one on the right, which I think we should - one will likely be our left winger for years, and the other will leave and be someone else's.
 
Martial is not my priority, far from that. I even said in the preseason that I would actually not mind him being sold because he isn't really an important part of the team. It just baffles me why despite doing so well when called upon he has been marginalized while pretty much all other attacking players have got time and manager's patience.
I think he is, judging by Mourinho's comments, his playing time and his contributions. I just think that you are overrating his good performances a little so it creates this frustration when you don't see him play more. This season at least, he isn't doing that much better than his competition so his playing time is logically what it is.
 
People are making too much of this start thing.
I'm sure there will be possible in the season where Martial starts ahead of him in the league.
The importance thing, Mourinho has already said he's discussed his role with him. As Martial continues his form, Mourinho will find it difficult to keep him out and will make the next adjustments.
 
Not necessarily. The idea of a footballer competing for a place is not new to anyone! I think the issue is that usually, a young player comes through and tries to take the place of someone already established in the team.

The scenario that is being created (unnecessarily in my view), is for ultimately, only one of Rashford and Martial to 'make it'. Competition is great, but I wouldn't want to see Mbappé and Dembele at the same club both competing for the left wing spot. Both should be playing, both are good enough to make it and start regularly for a top club. I don't want Rashford to compete with Martial long term. I want a long term attack with Rashford and Martial in it. They can't possibly both be world class players sharing a role in the team.

It is rare that a top team's two options for a spot are both 20 years old. Imagine a club had both Ronaldo and Messi in a situation where, long term one will play and one will probably be sold. Both those players need to be on the pitch.

The way things are looking, unless we start playing one on the right, which I think we should - one will likely be our left winger for years, and the other will leave and be someone else's.

Think I have this discussion before but imo Rashford is simply not good enough as a RW. His best foot is the right one ( obvious from all his shoots and crosses they all come from his right foot ), so playing him as a RW will keep his best foot to be the outside one limiting him to only crossing, he won't be able to penetrate or shoot because he'll be forced to do this by his weaker foot. He'll be turned to a mediocre out and out winger who keeps hugging the line and crossing. That's just not good for him nor for the team. On the left flank his best foot is the inside one, so he gets much easier time to penetrate the defense and shoot with it more that the right flank.

Rashford is much, much better suited for the LW position, same for Martial so they'll have to keep rotating between each other. I know having both in the formation is a great dream and all that, but you need to remember a very important thing : some formations in football look very nice on paper but when executed on the field they turn out to be terrible.

They both can't play together unless Rashford is the striker and Martial the LW but you can't displace Lukaku from his position, so competition between then is necessary, and also for their mentality developing imo it's better to be always on your toes and afraid of losing your position so you keep improving yourself rather than being handled this position on a golden plate.
 
I think he is, judging by Mourinho's comments, his playing time and his contributions. I just think that you are overrating his good performances a little so it creates this frustration when you don't see him play more. This season at least, he isn't doing that much better than his competition so his playing time is logically what it is.

He has scored three goals while coming off the bench for 10-15 minutes. You cannot possibly ask more, and yesterday's game was a reminder of how talented he is. He was also quite good against Leicester in his only league start so far. Yes, it is frustrating because I like watching him play and I think out of all our attacking players, he has the potential to become the best of them, but it won't happen if he doesn't play. That's why I was talking about loan, sending him to Inter, Roma, Sevilla or Valencia (or any other good Italian or Spanish team) for two years would be great development opportunity for him. I think loan is still an opportunity for the next Summer.

He hasn't been so much worse than his competition either, yet he plays less.
 
He has scored three goals while coming off the bench for 10-15 minutes. You cannot possibly ask more, and yesterday's game was a reminder of how talented he is. He was also quite good against Leicester in his only league start so far. Yes, it is frustrating because I like watching him play and I think out of all our attacking players, he has the potential to become the best of them, but it won't happen if he doesn't play. That's why I was talking about loan, sending him to Inter, Roma, Sevilla or Valencia (or any other good Italian or Spanish team) for two years would be great development opportunity for him. I think loan is still an opportunity for the next Summer.

He hasn't been so much worse than his competition either, yet he plays less.
I'm not asking for more, his competition has better numbers so what should be done ? Yesterday's game is also a reminder that Rashford, despite his younger age, is also a cracking talent. It's not like Rashford hasn't deserved more playing time. He truly has.
 
Think I have this discussion before but imo Rashford is simply not good enough as a RW. His best foot is the right one ( obvious from all his shoots and crosses they all come from his right foot ), so playing him as a RW will keep his best foot to be the outside one limiting him to only crossing, he won't be able to penetrate or shoot because he'll be forced to do this by his weaker foot. He'll be turned to a mediocre out and out winger who keeps hugging the line and crossing. That's just not good for him nor for the team. On the left flank his best foot is the inside one, so he gets much easier time to penetrate the defense and shoot with it more that the right flank.

Rashford is much, much better suited for the LW position, same for Martial so they'll have to keep rotating between each other. I know having both in the formation is a great dream and all that, but you need to remember a very important thing : some formations in football look very nice on paper but when executed on the field they turn out to be terrible.

They both can't play together unless Rashford is the striker and Martial the LW but you can't displace Lukaku from his position, so competition between then is necessary, and also for their mentality developing imo it's better to be always on your toes and afraid of losing your position so you keep improving yourself rather than being handled this position on a golden plate.

Yea, think you did say that before. Still disagree though. Rashford is fine on the right. If he's instructed to stay on the line and cross the ball, it won't matter which side he's on. That's why he shouldn't be.

For all the talk about how 'Rooney played x amount of games on the left' - his best game out wide by far came in the 2005 FA Cup final against Arsenal. Players and teams are different, there was a huge difference in how he played the right to how Becks did. Willian and Pedro at Chelsea are other examples. Makes little difference what their strongest foot is. Victor Moses, on the other hand, is different. If you ask of Rashford what you ask of Moses then fair enough. But you shouldn't.
 
Yea, think you did say that before. Still disagree though. Rashford is fine on the right. If he's instructed to stay on the line and cross the ball, it won't matter which side he's on. That's why he shouldn't be.

For all the talk about how 'Rooney played x amount of games on the left' - his best game out wide by far came in the 2005 FA Cup final against Arsenal. Players and teams are different, there was a huge difference in how he played the right to how Becks did. Willian and Pedro at Chelsea are other examples. Makes little difference what their strongest foot is. Victor Moses, on the other hand, is different. If you ask of Rashford what you ask of Moses then fair enough. But you shouldn't.

If he's restricted to hug the line and just cross, it's fine, but you're limiting his abilities and he won't give you his 100% and I don't think it's also good for his development. You always try to put a formation in which each player gives you 90-100% of his abilities. Gathering all your good names even off their positions they'll give you 50-60% of what they can provide and the team will fail.
 
If he's restricted to hug the line and just cross, it's fine, but you're limiting his abilities and he won't give you his 100% and I don't think it's also good for his development. You always try to put a formation in which each player gives you 90-100% of his abilities. Gathering all your good names even off their positions they'll give you 50-60% of what they can provide and the team will fail.

No I agree, I mean he should NOT be instructed to hug the line and cross.

He could play right side for Liverpool easily, just as Mané did last season.
 
Not sure why this is being overcomplicated ala "maybe he's treating him differently because he expects so much more"

Maybe, just maybe, he was an expensive signing under another manager and Mourinho doesn't really like him, would never have signed him if he was in charge.

Playing well against Burton Albion is little to write home about, it's a championship side. Good for the confidence, but not much more interesting than that

Martial under Mourinho is never going to be offered the same chance as other players to find consistency, play through a bad patch etc. If the roles was swapped vs Everton and Martial was the one playing as badly as Rashford, he'd be nowhere near the first team for the foreseeable future. Rashford will more likely than not end up starting at the weekend. Simply because one has a long term future at the club, while the other one is going to fund someone the manager wants.

The plan is always going to be to get as much money as possible for Martial in the summer transfer window. If there's interest from Antoine to join us in January, we'll splash the cash and that's it.
 
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