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2017-18 Performances


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I think that if he doesn't start tommorow it's poor management from Mourinho. He has scored twice in 30 minutes of football and if that doesn't warrant a place in the starting line-up I don't know what does. I'm not saying Martial has to start every game because that depends on his form but the great thing is that no right back will be able to stop him and Rashford over 90 minutes regardless of who starts and it's a basically a like for like change. I think at the end of the day it's a great problem to have and I'm happy with how Martial has started the season.
No. Not changing a winning formula is not bad man management especially when Rashford has been one of our best players on the pitch.

We could easily play 60+ games this season and people are worried that we have two players to fill a certain role for that. It's mind blowing. They'll both get plenty of time.
 
For those that think Mourinho doesn't rate him and the relationship is on the rocks.
 
Isnt Deschamps the idiot who uses astrology or tarot cards to pick teams?
 
Isnt Deschamps the idiot who uses astrology or tarot cards to pick teams?
He will be sacked before long. Need some amount of effort to still be at risk at this stage of not qualifying for WC with the amount of talent at his disposal.
 
Strangely, him coming on and scoring twice and playing big part in other goals has ended any sort of fear I had for him not being happy here. I am also not worried about Mourinho not starting him. If he keeps putting positive performances, it's only a matter of time that he'll become a regular feature of our starting lineup.
 
He was a truly awful coach. Evra got painted as a national villain but this guy was really to blame.
He did get them to a World Cup final, also however awful your manager is, I'd expect a player to give it all if he is representing his country, a strike during a World Cup is totally unacceptable.
 
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He did get them to a World Cup final, also however awful your manager is, I'd expect a player to give it all if he is representing his country, a strike during a World Cup is totally unacceptable.
Yeah, I guess that's another way to look at it. For me, representing your country or not, you're still a human being doing a job and if my boss was behaving like that I'd quit too. There's a lot of onus put on players to put their country first regardless of greivances, but somehow it doesn't applies to their coaches.

Anyway, I think Deschamps is a much more reasonable coach and omitting Martial is not due to personal issues but for the balance of the team. We've wanted English NT managers to put the team above talented individuals and select based on fit not reputation, and here's an international manager doing exactly that.
 
Surely the biggest issue for Deschamps has been Martial's form over the last year... he's been good, not great... and to play that position, in that French team right now, you need to be great.

Recently Martial has started to really looked like his old self again, and if he knocks in 20 goals this season he's be on the plane this summer.
 
Surely the biggest issue for Deschamps has been Martial's form over the last year... he's been good, not great... and to play that position, in that French team right now, you need to be great.

Recently Martial has started to really looked like his old self again, and if he knocks in 20 goals this season he's be on the plane this summer.
So how does that explain Coman being called up?
 
Deschamps 100% has his favourites and Martial is not even close to being one of them. If he keeps up his form for the entire season he'll find himself in the squad though, not even Deschamps can keep him out if he sustains a level similar to this.
 
So how does that explain Coman being called up?

That's the thing, if Coman doesn't grab this chance with both hands, he's looking over his shoulder. Great position to be in as a coach.

Don't know any context or the state of France and Coman's form but I guess it's because he is a natural wide player, who stretches the wings?

For all the great things Martial is, his movement is more of a centre forward playing on the wing; creating for team mates through off the ball movements and holding width is not his strongest point.
 
For those that think Mourinho doesn't rate him and the relationship is on the rocks.


Really encouraging words from Jose. I hope martial fulfills his potential here and have a great season which will do us lot of good if we are going to compete for titles this season.
 
Don't know any context or the state of France and Coman's form but I guess it's because he is a natural wide player, who stretches the wings?

For all the great things Martial is, his movement is more of a centre forward playing on the wing; creating for team mates through off the ball movements and holding width is not his strongest point.

People dont seem to understand that in the context of Man United let alone the French NT.
 
I'd beg to differ though.

Now Martial is performing well so his confidence is high.But do you think he can maintain his confidence when he just play 15min as back up even though he's performing well?

The chinese have a saying 'forge the steel while it's still hot'.So give Martial more minute to perform while his confidence is high.

How long can we expect Martial to come on the 75 minute and perform like he did right now?What if he come on and can't contributed anything?

Martial is not more important than the EPL trophy . Yes, he is supremely talented but that does not mean we should change a system that is working. United haven't been doing well for four years now, are spending money like their is no tomorrow to anyhow, somehow get back to the top. This is not the season to take chances, I don't think so. As long as we are winning with the current starting line up, I know I wouldn't change a thing. Martial has to wait as long as it takes for the team to start playing bad or until it's time to rotate. He can start then, take his changes, prove he is a good option to start with and not just a good impact sub. If he does it for two odd game, if he performs good while starting these games, he gets his chance over Rashford. That how I would like for it to happen. If you have beg to differ, I cannot convince you to start seeing the things same way as I do. Rashford scored and assisted his way to UCL final while Martial struggled to place a good pass but its all been forgotten after two games. After two games, Martial is a world beater and Rashford is a headless chicken. It's Rashford whose being treated unfairly and, while I agree he had a poor game recently, he deserves to start one or two more games and be able to prove his worth.

I am not going to be disappointed if Jose starts Martial against Leicester. I will be elated if he does starts and does well. All I am saying is, I feel, it's still not the right time to change anything. Maybe Herrera can come in to provide more defensive stability. But to swap two players who offer exact same things, doesn't make any sense.
 
Martial is not more important than the EPL trophy . Yes, he is supremely talented but that does not mean we should change a system that is working. United haven't been doing well for four years now, are spending money like their is no tomorrow to anyhow, somehow get back to the top. This is not the season to take chances, I don't think so. As long as we are winning with the current starting line up, I know I wouldn't change a thing. Martial has to wait as long as it takes for the team to start playing bad or until it's time to rotate. He can start then, take his changes, prove he is a good option to start with and not just a good impact sub. If he does it for two odd game, if he performs good while starting these games, he gets his chance over Rashford. That how I would like for it to happen. If you have beg to differ, I cannot convince you to start seeing the things same way as I do. Rashford scored and assisted his way to UCL final while Martial struggled to place a good pass but its all been forgotten after two games. After two games, Martial is a world beater and Rashford is a headless chicken. It's Rashford whose being treated unfairly and, while I agree he had a poor game recently, he deserves to start one or two more games and be able to prove his worth.

I am not going to be disappointed if Jose starts Martial against Leicester. I will be elated if he does starts and does well. All I am saying is, I feel, it's still not the right time to change anything. Maybe Herrera can come in to provide more defensive stability. But to swap two players who offer exact same things, doesn't make any sense.

Why is this a bloody Martial vs Rashford debate at all? There are 3 spots behind Lukaku, we should give them both a chance at some point. What will we learn about the team if we don't?
 
Martial is not more important than the EPL trophy . Yes, he is supremely talented but that does not mean we should change a system that is working. United haven't been doing well for four years now, are spending money like their is no tomorrow to anyhow, somehow get back to the top. This is not the season to take chances, I don't think so. As long as we are winning with the current starting line up, I know I wouldn't change a thing. Martial has to wait as long as it takes for the team to start playing bad or until it's time to rotate. He can start then, take his changes, prove he is a good option to start with and not just a good impact sub. If he does it for two odd game, if he performs good while starting these games, he gets his chance over Rashford. That how I would like for it to happen. If you have beg to differ, I cannot convince you to start seeing the things same way as I do. Rashford scored and assisted his way to UCL final while Martial struggled to place a good pass but its all been forgotten after two games. After two games, Martial is a world beater and Rashford is a headless chicken. It's Rashford whose being treated unfairly and, while I agree he had a poor game recently, he deserves to start one or two more games and be able to prove his worth.

I am not going to be disappointed if Jose starts Martial against Leicester. I will be elated if he does starts and does well. All I am saying is, I feel, it's still not the right time to change anything. Maybe Herrera can come in to provide more defensive stability. But to swap two players who offer exact same things, doesn't make any sense.

Completely agree - why take risks with so much at stake. I would just hope that a manager would take Martial aside and explain that - he's performing well and will get his chance/is definitely in my plans, etc... but not right now.
 
Why is this a bloody Martial vs Rashford debate at all? There are 3 spots behind Lukaku, we should give them both a chance at some point. What will we learn about the team if we don't?
Did I, at any point, say that we are not going to give any of them a chance? I said, we learn about them when our fixture allows us to. Not when we are on a good run and need to maintain stability. A team struggling for four years will naturally be set back again if we are to lose after getting our hopes up so don't let our two victories fool you. Until and unless we play bad or we play an easy fixture, nothing needs to be learnt about anyone. They can sulk all they want, the non-starters. I don't care and probably the manager doesn't either. I don't think Martial will sulk either but that seems to be primary concern of his fans.

Moreover, I know that the season has just begun and there are enough fixture for them both to be given chances. You seem to acknowledge that too. So why the need to learn about them in such a hurry? We can do that when the time is right.
 
Completely agree - why take risks with so much at stake. I would just hope that a manager would take Martial aside and explain that - he's performing well and will get his chance/is definitely in my plans, etc... but not right now.
Don't think the manager needs to do that anyway. Martial has proven he is a professional and wants to stay here. He squashes rumors as soon as they start building up and gives his best when he comes on as a sub. He knows how long this season is and had surely already held talks with the manager as to where he is in his plans, before starting the season with us. It's his fans that are way too insecure and think of him like this kid who needs to be appeased at all times and treated like a princess. We don't have to worry about any lack of communication. We are talking about professionals here.
 
Did I, at any point, say that we are not going to give any of them a chance? I said, we learn about them when our fixture allows us to. Not when we are on a good run and need to maintain stability. A team struggling for four years will naturally be set back again if we are to lose after getting our hopes up so don't let our two victories fool you. Until and unless we play bad or we play an easy fixture, nothing needs to be learnt about anyone. They can sulk all they want, the non-starters. I don't care and probably the manager doesn't either. I don't think Martial will sulk either but that seems to be primary concern of his fans.

Moreover, I know that the season has just begun and there are enough fixture for them both to be given chances. You seem to acknowledge that too. So why the need to learn about them in such a hurry? We can do that when the time is right.

It's bad man management not to reward good performances from a confidence player. Fergie would have both Martial and Rashford in the team. And he'd be grinning like a kid in a sweet shop.
 
And at the same time you say you're not biased? :lol:

Martial's supposed entire season where he was awful.

You know how people keep saying that we still need one more game changer, a guy who can single handedly turn a game. We have him but maybe some choose not to see it. I mean those are highlights of an arguably below par season. I don't think he will start today but I'm more hopefully he will soon fully win Mourinho's trust after the way he's started and the comments from the manager.
 
Wonder if his goals against West Ham and Swansea might earn him a starting spot today against Leicester.
 
It's bad man management not to reward good performances from a confidence player. Fergie would have both Martial and Rashford in the team. And he'd be grinning like a kid in a sweet shop.
Having both Martial and Rashford in the team with Lukaku up front means your front three is all pace and little technical skill and vision. I think that's the recipe for having frustrating games. Teams can just camp around their penalty area and allow for these three to mess up a pass and then hit on the counter. Mata and Mkhi provide that bit of vision we need up front. Remove one of them two and we are left with Pogba having to do too much on his own. Maybe we can test this out in a few games and see how well they play together. Maybe it will be a riot with them dragging defenders all over the place. But, to me, a front three of Lukaku, Rashford and Martial doesn't sound that intimidating and versatile.

Edit: Yeah, I think Sir Alex could have made it work. His team was always well drilled in direct, fast football. But we don't him as our manager anymore.
 
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Having both Martial and Rashford in the team with Lukaku up front means your front three is all pace and little technical skill and vision. I think that's the recipe for having frustrating games. Teams can just camp around their penalty area and allow for these three to mess up a pass and then hit on the counter. Mata and Mkhi provide that bit of vision we need up front. Remove one of them two and we are left with Pogba having to do too much on his own. Maybe we can test this out in a few games and see how well they play together. Maybe it will be a riot with them dragging defenders all over the place. But, to me, a front three of Lukaku, Rashford and Martial doesn't sound that intimidating and versatile.

Well if we tried it we might find out if you're right or not eh? Personally I think saying Martial and Rashford don't have technical skill or vision is laughable.
 
Well if we tried it we might find out if you're right or not eh? Personally I think saying Martial and Rashford don't have technical skill or vision is laughable.
I find their passing skills lacking. If they, along with Lukaku were to participate heavily in a play that involved passing the ball around a packed defense and carve it open once the defense was stretched enough, I personally think United will only end up getting hit on one counter attack after the other as they will lose the ball or simply run it out of play. I am sure that much us obvious to many. You really do think their vision is on even close to the same level as Mkhi and Mata? Because we will have to sacrifice one of them for these two to play together.
 
Martial, Rashford, Lukaku is all pace and little technical skill and vision. Wow. Sounds like something straight out of the average football pundit.
That's a very weak attempt at refuting any statement or adding to any discussion.

Yes their passing and vision is lacking. Do you watch football? Have you seen players like Modric, Xavi, iniesta, Scholes and Giggs play? Well Mata and Mkhi are well below that level. Martial, Rashford and Lukaku are a level below Mata and Mkhi. So where does that place them? Don't to be even an average pundit to figure that out.

I was talking to a poster who wanted for one of these to make way for Rashford and Martial to play together. I wasn't bashing them by the way and am a fan of Rashford. You want me to list their good qualities? I can. But that wasn't the point of the discussion. You will do well to read the full conversation before starting to label people.
 
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I find their passing skills lacking. If they, along with Lukaku were to participate heavily in a play that involved passing the ball around a packed defense and carve it open once the defense was stretched enough, I personally think United will only end up getting hit on one counter attack after the other as they will lose the ball or simply run it out of play. I am sure that much us obvious to many. You really do think their vision is on even close to the same level as Mkhi and Mata? Because we will have to sacrifice one of them for these two to play together.

Mkhi has lost the ball way more than either of Rashford or Martial this year. And if Mkhi and Mata are so good why do they need each other to pass to? Surely they should be passing between Pogba and Matic and then finding the runners up top?

Personally I think our best lineup is probably just about:

Lukaku
Martial Mata Mkhi

But if Mourinho insists on playing Mkhi at no.10 where he's not been terribly impressive then I would go:

Lukaku
Martial Mata/Mkhi Rashford

Mata is a completely ineffective winger and for me the combination of Pogba, Martial, Lukaku has immense potential - get them all on the pitch together!
 
That's a very weak attempt at refuting any statement or adding to any discussion.

Again, do you think Martial and Rashford have same vision and passing range as Mata and Mkhi? Because I was talking to a poster who wanted for one of these to make way for Rashford and Martial to play together. I wasn't bashing them by the way and am a fan of Rashford. You will do well to read the full conversation before starting to label people.
That statement didn't need anymore than a laughing smiley actually, I was just nice and though out of it. It's ridiculous and not based in reality but in the disturbing thoughts of many of the self appointed football experts that get huge platforms to speak on football.
Martial comfortably has the same vision as Mata and Mkhi, if not more given the higher speed that he plays with. Rashford has less but is not far off, he sure has been frustrating for me in his end product mainly in front of goal but his link up play and vision are good, in fact they were great in his first season.
 
That statement didn't need anymore than a laughing smiley actually, I was just nice and though out of it. It's ridiculous and not based in reality but in the disturbing thoughts of many of the self appointed football experts that get huge platforms to speak on football.
Martial comfortably has the same vision as Mata and Mkhi, if not more given the higher speed that he plays with. Rashford has less but is not far off, he sure has been frustrating for me in his end product mainly in front of goal but his link up play and vision are good, in fact they were great in his first season.
You do make me sound like a footballing expert, I am going to give you that. And how come you say my observations are laughable and then proceed to state your own without backing it up with any stats? Martial has the same vision as Mata now? Comfortably? The former Chelsea player of the season Mata? Same as Mikhi? The guy who called an assist machine? Martial is a brilliant dribbler, a fast player and a good finisher but to say that he has the same vision and passing ability as Mata and or Mikhi!? Have you seen Martial provide assists in any form other than the cut backs he does (which he does quiet often and does it well but we are talking about vision and range here) when he gets into the penalty area? Any assists like Mikhi's reverse pass for Pogba or that pass to Lukaku for his goal?! Do you have any stats to back you claims that Martial is on the same level as Mata or Mkhi when it comes to vision and passing?! Well I do. I listed a few out for youand I think the debate about which one of us is making baseless statements is settled.
 
Mkhi has lost the ball way more than either of Rashford or Martial this year. And if Mkhi and Mata are so good why do they need each other to pass to? Surely they should be passing between Pogba and Matic and then finding the runners up top?

Personally I think our best lineup is probably just about:

Lukaku
Martial Mata Mkhi

But if Mourinho insists on playing Mkhi at no.10 where he's not been terribly impressive then I would go:

Lukaku
Martial Mata/Mkhi Rashford

Mata is a completely ineffective winger and for me the combination of Pogba, Martial, Lukaku has immense potential - get them all on the pitch together!
Don't think either Mikhi or Mata play as wingers though. They drift in and help weave passes, create something for either Lukaku, Rashford or the other one of them to finish. Rashford on the right wing? We all saw how that turned out so this makes it seem like we are trying to force Martial into the squad without having to sacrifice Rashford's starting role.

Maybe I just prefer passing and building the play around penalty area more than blowing teams away with sheer pace and direct football. Like I said, I am not saying that Martial and Rashford will never work. We dont know until we try. I am just not completely sold on the idea. Maybe if they do play some game together and impress, I will have to take my word back. As of now, I like having Mata and Mikhi more over having Rashford and Martial both in the starting squad. Just my preference. Hopefully, we will get to see your alternative preferred line up soon enough and see how it does.
 
You do make me sound like a footballing expert, I am going to give you that. And how come you say my observations are laughable and then proceed to state your own without backing it up with any stats? Martial has the same vision as Mata now? Comfortably? The former Chelsea player of the season Mata? Same as Mikhi? The guy who called an assist machine? Martial is a brilliant dribbler, a fast player and a good finisher but to say that he has the same vision and passing ability as Mata and or Mikhi!? Have you seen Martial provide assists in any form other than the cut backs he does (which he does quiet often and does it well but we are talking about vision and range here) when he gets into the penalty area? Any assists like Mikhi's reverse pass for Pogba or that pass to Lukaku for his goal?! Do you have any stats to back you claims that Martial is on the same level as Mata or Mkhi when it comes to vision and passing?! Well I do. I listed a few out for youand I think the debate about which one of us is making baseless statements is settled.
Don't flatter yourself, you sound like exactly what I implied, someone who's eaten up enough bs of the self proclaimed experts. Martial doesn't just do cut back assists, you keep showing yourself up. You don't even need to watch full games, just look at the highlights I quoted a few posts back and you will see many different types of assists and chances created. Martial does have the vision and passing range of Mata and Mkhi on top of his other traits. He is very capable of reverse passes, through balls, over the top balls short and long etc. The Martial game you mention is the one constantly spewed by those talking heads who incidentally mostly watch his highlights. He is a very accomplished attacking player, both as a creative and a finisher. He's not just a dribbler, speedster and finisher. His creative game is massively underrated mainly because his other attacking game is top notch and the most eye catching but its laughable as a united fan to ignore it or believe it doesn't exist because some media said so. The only thing thats settled for me is the sad fact that you know very little about one of our most talented players.
 
Great to see that he's being rewarded with a start after making an impact from the bench two weeks in a row.
 
His big chance to make an impact. Very important for him to perform well today.
 
Kudos to Mourinho for giving him the start his off the bench performances have deserved. Here's to hoping he grabs the chance with both hands.
 
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