Don't think there's a reason. Perhaps he should have played a bit wider. But really I just think like everyone he struggled to find space against a well organised defence. This happens to the very best players in the world from time to time. It hardly deserves an inquest.
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 45
- Goals
- 11
- Assists
- 11
- Yellow cards
- 1
- Status
How can there not be a reason? It happened against Huddersfield as well.
In regards to him playing wider, he is always going to come inside anyway.
Is he bad every time we play a team that parks the bus? On the other end, is he brilliant every time we play a team that doesn't?
Agree with this. Complete overreaction. Everything from blaming Jose to people saying Martial a one dimensional average footballer. All based on one game against a very organised defence that we actually won.
I mean his early season exploits came off the bench when teams opened up against us and he had space to use his dribbling ability. Today and Huddersfield were his worst showings.
I'm guessing your solution would be to drop him against any team who defend in numbers and play your boy Rashford on the left?
I prefer Rashford yes. I think he is better against teams that park the bus. Martial is better with space. That, or switch to a 3 at the back like we did against CSKA where Martial was excellent.
So why don't you just jump over to that Rashford v Martial thread if that's the viewpoint you want to push? No need to do it by spamming the Martial thread every time he has a poor to average game.
Edit: For what it's worth I thought Rashford struggled just as much as Martial against the tight defence today. I don't see anything that would make him more effective that Martial against this type of set up. His best moments were a couple of great crosses from the right wing imo.
I wanted to talk about Martial. You asked me who should play there, I didn't really bring it up.
I have always had this viewpoint even before the Huddersfield game.
Rashford wasn't playing on the left. He isn't comfortable on the right anyway. Teams parked the bus against us in the opening games of the season and we would break them down with Rashford on the left. Rashford was playing well.
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That's my point though. Your posts on Martial will always be coloured by the fact that you wish he'd be dropped for Rashford. It unbalances the thread when the most active poster in the thread doesn't even want the player to be in the team. Why don't you go over to the other thread and explain why Rashford is better again.
I should never comment on Martial then?
Edit - My view that Martial would struggle against teams that park the bus has been consistent. This has been my opinion when Rashford was starting and Martial would come off the bench to help kill games. It's not like I am changing what I am saying.
Rashford was horrible yesterday. At least Martial attempted to beat his man and play a cross a few times.
I have always thought Martial would be best in a proper front 3. As a LW he is too far from goal and spends all game trying to run inside but as a CF he is not enough of a presence.
Well I also said Rashford wouldn't work on the right and that Jose was right for not really wanting him out there but I got stick for that opinion as well. Martial was no better than Rashford either really. Even sky sports gave Rashford a higher rating.
He wasn't coming off the bench exclusively, it was pretty much a perfect string of alternate games where he and Rashford started. He started and performed well in games vs West Ham, Leicester, Basel, CSKA etc. None of these teams were attacking us with 6 men either.
Tbf, I dont even know why you're debating using the "he's worse against teams that defend in numbers" argument anyways. Who are these attackers that are better when up against more defenders than less? Who are these attackers who are worse when they have acres of space?
This isn't aimed directly at you but caf's bloody mental at times when it comes to some posters who will try and explain every single thing that happens on the pitch. Its never as simple as a player having an off game or the opponent doing well on the night. Nope, that'd be too fecking simplistic given we are on a football forum and thus need to present our expert analysis which explains every "Why" out there.
Martial is a young footballer. Like other young footballers around, he has good and bad moments. Like every other footballers around, he's better if given more space and less defenders to deal with. Unfortunately, this isnt rocket science and thus opposition managers know this as well and spend weeks on the training pitch to make life tough for Martial and other attackers.
Alternatively, I could be wrong and there exist these 21yr olds who perform at a high level every game without fail, who perform better the less space to play in and who perform playing against 10 defenders instead of 6 in which case you should immediately list these names out to the club.
Probably not really. Everyone knows you have an agenda so it's hard to take your posts seriously.
Martial started on the bench against West Ham? Against Leicester Rashford came on and then we broke the deadlock. CSKA there was also a slight system and formation change and Mourinho spoke about how it allowed Martial a bit more space.
I meant Rashford was more effective than Martial against parked busses because he has better movement and variety to his game. Im aware players have bad games. I was talking about his performance in relation to his playstyle which sees him cut inside a lot and isn't the most effective against packed defences for obvious reasons.
I have no agenda. I have an opinion. I have had this opinion for a long time, since Rashford was starting the league games and Martial was coming off the bench. It's not like I am changing what I am saying. Im sorry, I won't stop posting just because I have a different opinion to you.
No, the reasons are far from obvious. He isnt playing the game in isolation. When he cuts inside, a player can drift out wide into the space created, the full back could overlap into the space too to create a quality crossing opportunity. This is without even going into the fact that he doesnt always cut inside as you'd like us to believe.
His movement leaves a lot to be desired, I agree completely with that and that's something I've talked about quite a bit too. That doesnt suddenly make him useless vs teams that park the bus though, there's a lot more to his game which he has shown already.
Not sure why you keep bringing Rashford into this btw, he's hardly a shining beacon of consistency and 9/10 performances regardless of setup, opposition or match situation. He has his strengths and weaknesses and even if we talk specifically about teams that park the bus, he's hardly someone that excels.
Fair enough. I'm not asking you to stop posting, even though I'd prefer if you did. People will generally figure you out within a few posts anyway like they do with most obsessed agenda posters. So it's no biggie
Fair enough. I'm not asking you to stop posting, even though I'd prefer if you did. People will generally figure you out within a few posts anyway like they do with most obsessed agenda posters. So it's no biggie
'Figure me out'
Mate I have an opinion and you're the one who decided to drag Rashford into it. Give it a rest.
The last few pages have reminded me why I completely avoid this thread sometimes. Too much OTT criticism and outright nonsense. Martial doesn't play amazing and all of a sudden he turns into a pub player who can only dribble and only cut inside. The fact he was the only one out of our forward line that was trying things and looking to link up with his mates for attacking moves and attempting some incisive balls to speed things up turns into a sort of myth. I wonder what some here would have called ronaldo between 04-06 when he showed brilliant potential but most of his dribbles never came off, would constantly run into blind alleys and had terrible decision making of when to pass, shoot or dribble. With everything Martial has shown from his first season, to adjusting to Mourinho and disruptions in his personal life, and rising above it all this season with clearly improved performances and end product, It's unbelievable that some people still few the need to jump to conclusions after he has an off day when the rest of the forwards were worse and the no. 10 was non existent in linking up midfield and attack.
Some people smh....
You would think against a packed tight defence you’d want your best dribbler and best person at beating a man to play. Not only do teams like Huddersfield and Brighton double mark him actually yesterday when he got the ball 3 moved to him. He’s a player managers and players fear which explains the defensive reaction to him. What he needs to do now is realise when this is happening to him and find the free man.
That isn’t always easy as our movement up top is really poor, too many people standing about watching instead of giving options.
Yesterday not his greatest day but it was a lot better than some would have us believe set up a great chance for Lukaku and one for Pogba. Had some very nice moments of play with attempts at 1-2’s in the box not to mention some good crosses and his play allowed Young to have the freedom of that flank with very little opposition.
You would think against a packed tight defence you’d want your best dribbler and best person at beating a man to play. Not only do teams like Huddersfield and Brighton double mark him actually yesterday when he got the ball 3 moved to him. He’s a player managers and players fear which explains the defensive reaction to him. What he needs to do now is realise when this is happening to him and find the free man.
That isn’t always easy as our movement up top is really poor, too many people standing about watching instead of giving options.
Yesterday not his greatest day but it was a lot better than some would have us believe set up a great chance for Lukaku and one for Pogba. Had some very nice moments of play with attempts at 1-2’s in the box not to mention some good crosses and his play allowed Young to have the freedom of that flank with very little opposition.
This is a great post. The part I selected we see in multiple threads and discussions. I really like Martial and Rashford and think they will get starts and playing time based on their performances and the plan that Mou has for any particular game. No place really for sentiment, over-analysis, ignoring other mitigating circumstances and adoption of our own favourite formations etc. Mou is all about getting the right result in every single game we play. Does it always come off? Of course not. But we are getting there.
Is there really space to run at and dribble past defenders when teams park the bus though... thats my point... you're gonna have to create runs and movement off the ball to try and get defenders to move around a bit. Martial's work is largely in to feet and cut inside.
He waltzed past 3 players yesterday in a tight space and we’ve seen him do it a few times. It’s not always going to work as let’s face it it’s a very very difficult thing to do. In terms of operating in tight spaces he is clearly the best in the team with that tight dribbling.
I do agree at times I wish Martial wouldn’t just show to feet for it. Mix it up and sometimes go the other way and stretch a team it’s something he needs to improve. However when he is central he seems to automatically have better movement and will make those runs.
I think he is better in a 2 as when he has been paired with Lukaku it’s been his and our best stuff. He can do a job as an LM but I think LW and striker is where he is best at.
There are certainly areas he needs to improve as do many players, but if we can get a LB who is left footed and athletic and can use the space Martial creates we’ll be flying.
This whole narrative of him only cutting inside makes it sound as if that's all he does all game, cut inside and shoot against a defender's leg or something. No, he can create spaces for others, he's shown an improved ability of passing and cutting. He creates situations with his 'one-dimensional' cut inside move. Out of all the players, he's shown the most consistent ability to get past players in the last third, in tight spaces, and create something out of nothing for himself or others. He didn't have a great game last time out, but I don't see anybody on the squad who I know for sure would have done better, and I'd rather give him the chance over anyone right now, even against teams that park the bus, and hope that next game will be a better one.
Too many fanboys, any objective criticism leads to claims of having an agenda by these people. It seems it really is Martial FC in this thread, yes he is a very good player and young so will make mistakes, however this should not make him immune to criticism after games in which he is very poor.
Sorry I exaggerated there - they were not top players but looked like more than just good prospects to me & could be counted upon. Rashford to me is not improving a bit; except learning how to try & cross; the guy seems to have lost his predatory instincts as a striker - be that a blip in his form or not; I sincerely doubt that he is going to get much game time above ibrahimpvic & lukaku under José. He is more a player that can compete for a starting spot with jesus than lukaku & someone who can compete aguer0 than ibrahimpvic simply down to the way we play football compared to a team that plays football on the ground. Likewise martial is not too different to sterling in the way that he dribbles and is allowed to play as a wider forward. With regards to martial playing as a CF - he is by definition a forward not a left midfielder & this is how he is consistently being asked to play. He is immensely predictable as a left midfielder because he can't take his man on the outside; he does the same thing cutting in trying to cut in towards the centre of the pitch. Be it for France or for United; whenever he plays more centrally or at the very least played as a LF and not a LM or LW; he consistently has the space to beat his man on the outside and the inside and be at the range of the opposition goal. There a plenty of players that started out as wingers who are more suited to playing centrally just looking at their strengths and weaknesses - lacazette from the France team is a good example. Let's wait and see if they are actually improving or not.
Not sure they do. What happens is Martial's performance dictates which side of the argument gets to shout loudest. So for example if he plays poor you'll see plenty of Haram.
Preach brother.
I've said the same thing myself multiple times.
What are these talks of hot and cold. He's been mostly hot and then suddenly after a poor performance in a string of good ones, you have these posters claiming he is too inconsistent.
No one goes an entire season without forgettable games, even the best of the best.
This whole thing reeks of some people having waited(a while) for Martial to have a poor game in order for them to jump at his throat. And some wonder why they get called agenda driven.
No one goes an entire season without forgettable games, even the best of the best.
This whole thing reeks of some people having waited(a while) for Martial to have a poor game in order for them to jump at his throat. And some wonder why they get called agenda driven.
Because most of the elite managers are coming to the EPL, it is slowly but surely becoming the strongest league. You can see it in the Champions League matches. Real and Barca are aging and looking vulnerable. The Bundesliga has only one elite team. Ligue 1 is like opponents for PSG's Harlem Globetrotters tour.
Juventus also is going through a transition period. I'm not saying we are there yet, but with all the political upheaval in Spain, I think it is coming soon, especially if Pep, Klopp, Jose stay here for awhile... other managers will want to try their hand at defeating them... that's why Rafa agreed to stay a season in the Championship. My point is that we must keep players like Martial, and not allow other leagues to poach our talent. We must convince these young players that EPL will be the center of the football universe and not La Liga anymore.
Juventus also is going through a transition period. I'm not saying we are there yet, but with all the political upheaval in Spain, I think it is coming soon, especially if Pep, Klopp, Jose stay here for awhile... other managers will want to try their hand at defeating them... that's why Rafa agreed to stay a season in the Championship. My point is that we must keep players like Martial, and not allow other leagues to poach our talent. We must convince these young players that EPL will be the center of the football universe and not La Liga anymore.
We could tell, Jose could tell. Now he's kicking on, let's hope it continues.
That’s pretty big news, considering how much disagreement there’s been on here about the reason for Martial underperforming last season.
Good quotes. Shows he’s really up for it now. I think he’ll develop quickly this season and become bloody class
Seems the people who were making out it was all Jose' fault, were indeed incorrect. Oh the joys of the Caf. Hope Martial can get going again, what a player he is when he's in the right frame of mind.
Some of his inconsistency is because he can be one dimensional in his approach in trying to cut in all the time and because his movement off the ball is at times lacking, however I also think we're frequently way too slow to get the ball to him in situations where he can isolate the defender. Against Brighton all of these issues came up at one point or another. I thought he looked best when in the 2nd half he drifted all the way over to the right actually and got to the byline to put in a cross.
You sure that's accurate? I saw lots who thought Mourinho wasn't handling him as well as he could but I doubt anyone completely absolved Martial of all responsibility.
I remember being frustrated with every single one of our players ever to play for us in my time. Every single one had a bad game or a bad patch here and there each season. The only reason we got away with it most of times was SAF.
Thus far I'm extremly satisfied with Martial, as things stand this season has given him a steady curve of improvement. Given his age, if injuries or other unforseen events don't hinder him, by the time his 26 he'll be one hell of a player. We need to have faith and be patient. Even Ronaldo didn't deliver every single game for us, not even in the 07/08 season.
Thus far I'm extremly satisfied with Martial, as things stand this season has given him a steady curve of improvement. Given his age, if injuries or other unforseen events don't hinder him, by the time his 26 he'll be one hell of a player. We need to have faith and be patient. Even Ronaldo didn't deliver every single game for us, not even in the 07/08 season.
Listen, you play for a coach, you're not going to publicly blame him for anything while he's your coach unless you're a massive star (and even then, it's rare), that will come later on when he inevitably leaves or gets fired. Jose is finally starting to do the things some on here have been talking about for a while now, to treat every one the same. When Martial would get dropped for an average to bad game, Mikhi was staying on no matter how terrible he was. He's also finally playing both Martial and Rashford, instead of having two young talented players competing for the same spot. Sure, Rashford isn't great on the right wing right now, but it's not as if there's been much production there all season and I think he can grow comfortable there with more playing time, allowing Martial to play on the left wing where he can do more damage.
It's really silly how people use the players' quotes as if that had any meaning when they're praising the guy (or refusing to criticize him) who's currently responsible for their playing time. Also, as previously mentioned, no one here has blamed solely Mourinho, Martial's had plenty of his share of the blame as well.
This is blatantly false. Most people have praised Martial when he plays well and criticized him when he plays poorly. However, there is a clear contingent in this thread that praise Martial when he plays well and makes excuses for him when he plays poorly.
This is genuinely what happens in this thread, when Martial gets a goal and assist there's talk of him being the best young player in the world, as good as Mbappe, future balondor winner etc. These same people will then talk about how the full back didnt support him enough or there were negative tactics when Martial is invisible in another game.
There are some here that would genuinely have you believe that Martial is the perfect player and is just being misused, which is obviously false since better players have performed with these same tactics and manager (Di Maria, Robben etc.).
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