[Parma Dewol]

Over the past few seasons we've often seen players left seemingly out in the cold, only for them to come back stronger. Mhiki is a great example.

This has been a stop-start season for Martial but the kid is so incredibly talented. I'd argue he could even be our most talented player going forward. The management must be award of that. Hopefully this blip in form is due to personal problems off the field. He was our top scorer last season and I hope he comes back into the fold fitter, stronger and mentally prepared. Wouldn't bet against him being our top scorer next season.

 

[Fracture90]

Lingard and Rooney have different qualities (and thank feck Rooney made the bench) so it was a toss up between Martial and Rashford. After having such an impact against West Ham there's really no need to get bent out of shape over Rashford getting the nod.

Rooney's goal aside, it was Rashford that won the freekick he scored from and Lingard hit the bar. Terrible subs, right?

Again twisting it. You're making it sound as if I've said that the subs we're dreadful. Mata seriously, pay attention please.

Mourinho's basically obstructing our play in order to force fans to accept Fellaini.

Tell me do you think that we would have suffered as much as we did yesterday if we had played the same team we did against Liverpool?

Also before you twist it again I'm not saying that Fellaini was bad yesterday but that he's simply not doing enough to be a squad player, let alone a starter.

Our offensive game comes down to hoofing the ball upfront and our team in general looks disjointed when he's on the pitch.

 

[SteveW]

Martial had a slow start to the season be he turned his form around a few weeks ago. He should be one of the first names on the team sheet.

People can try to find ways to justify leaving him out but it's nonsense really. He's one of our best players and he's been playing well recently. We should be putting out our best 11 in games as difficult as Stoke away.

Dropping players to prove points or whatever is stupid. It's not about player or manager power right now. The club is more important. We need the points.

 

[Litch]

Good player but i think it's an attitude issue. For me he never fully commits himself and an old sports saying 'never leaves it all on the pitch'. I feel plays within himself and at times doesn't offer enough. If he had Lingards attitude and mentality he'd be an absolute world beater.....

 

[Fracture90]

And Carrick must have needed a break.

Carrick last played a week ago and he was replaced after 45 minutes. Doubt he needed a break. It's more of a case that Mourinho chickened out and brought Fellaini in order to counter Stoke's physicality.

Only problem is that this isn't the same Pulis Stoke.

 

[Litch]

Carrick last played a week ago and he was replaced after 45 minutes. Doubt he needed a break. It's more of a case that Mourinho chickened out and brought Fellaini in order to counter Stoke's physicality.

Only problem is this isn't the same Pulis Stoke.

We had more than enough chances to win this game. Everything else is irrelevant imo

 

[SteveW]

Because he plays a different position, obviously. One with less options. And Carrick must have needed a break.

A few decent moments early on aside Martial could have played for hours in the Liverpool game and still not created or scorer anything. A rookie fullback had him in his pocket ffs.

We're fecking crying out for him or one of our other members of the front three to nail down a place the way, say, Jones or Hererra have done. The fact they haven't is killing us and is nobody's fault but their own. Even our Armenian saviour has gone to shite after looking so good when he got back into the team. This place will go mental when he also ends up dropped like Martial but he didn't help himself yesterday at all.

You're being a bit harsh on Martial here. He was being double marked and getting zero help from his full back. Liverpool clearly saw him as the biggest threat and set up accordingly. Despite this he manage to do quite well with the limited service he got.

Him being doubled up left more room for others but they failed to make it count.

 

[Fracture90]

Dropping players to prove points or whatever is stupid. It's not about player or manager power right now. The club is more important. We need the points

Thank You! Mourinho really needs to let go of his "messiah complex" and stop trying to pull out miracles. Also needs to stop having pissing contest with players and managers.

 

[Fracture90]

We had more than enough chances to win this game. Everything else is irrelevant imo

Not really sure we did. Mata had that miss, Pogba had that volley from corner and Lingard hitting the bar from 30 yards is pretty much all.

Zlatan's chance when he couldn't decide whether to pass it or try with his left foot not included.

My point is that he keeps shuffling the team completley unnecessary. If he played the same lineup he did against Liverpool, we would have won it by a margin.

 

[NK86]

Good player but i think it's an attitude issue. For me he never fully commits himself and an old sports saying 'never leaves it all on the pitch'. I feel plays within himself and at times doesn't offer enough. If he had Lingards attitude and mentality he'd be an absolute world beater.....

What exactly do you mean by Lingard's attitude and mentality? Do you have the first clue about what mentality Martial has or why Lingard has a better mentality than Martial?

 

[Garethw]

Good player but i think it's an attitude issue. For me he never fully commits himself and an old sports saying 'never leaves it all on the pitch'. I feel plays within himself and at times doesn't offer enough. If he had Lingards attitude and mentality he'd be an absolute world beater.....

I can't disagree with a single word of this mate.

 

[MounchesterUtd]

Dropping players to prove points or whatever is stupid. It's not about player or manager power right now. The club is more important. We need the points.

Do you really think this is Mourinho showing Martial who's got the bigger set of balls? The man let Basti Schweinsteiger of all people back into the team FFS. Rashford scored the winner against Hull and got 'demoted' to the wing. Can't see any favoritism at all seeing even Rooney got dropped. There's a reason why most of his old players would run through a wall for him.

 

[SirAF]

Thank You! Mourinho really needs to let go of his "messiah complex" and stop trying to pull out miracles. Also needs to stop having pissing contest with players and managers.

 

[Fracture90]

Do you really think this is Mourinho showing Martial who's got the bigger set of balls? The man let Basti Schweinsteiger of all people back into the team FFS. Rashford scored the winner against Hull and got 'demoted' to the wing. Can't see any favoritism at all seeing even Rooney got dropped. There's a reason why most of his old players would run through a wall for him.

Mate he keeps playing Fellaini and he keeps playing Darmian as LB.

 

[Fracture90]

Can we agree that our best lineup in this moment is:

DDG
Valencia, Jones, Rojo, Blind
Carrick
Herrera, Pogba
Mikhi, Zlatan, Martial

Ideally with Bailly and Shaw in starting 11.

I really don't see the reason to shuffle our team so much against Stoke, especially considering we played our last game a week ago.

 

[Dobbs]

Lingard and Rooney have different qualities (and thank feck Rooney made the bench) so it was a toss up between Martial and Rashford. After having such an impact against West Ham there's really no need to get bent out of shape over Rashford getting the nod.

Rooney's goal aside, it was Rashford that won the freekick we scored from and Lingard hit the bar. Terrible subs, right?

Going into the game being "different" isn't a plausible argument for Rooney and Lingard over Martial. The question should be who is better.

I can understand him being dropped from the first XI now and again but last seasons best player should be in the squad.

 

[Litch]

Not really sure we did. Mata had that miss, Pogba had that volley from corner and Lingard hitting the bar from 30 yards is pretty much all.

Zlatan's chance when he couldn't decide whether to pass it or try with his left foot not included.

My point is that he keeps shuffling the team completley unnecessary. If he played the same lineup he did against Liverpool, we would have won it by a margin.

The thing about football is retrospective and views in hindsight are not a science. If we played the same team, who's to say we might have lost. I'm sure Jose put a team out to win and I feel the chances created were enough to win the game. The unbeaten run continues....

 

[Janson]

He simply has to fight his way back in the team. There's no reason to favor him in front of any of Lingard / Rashford / Rooney / Mata / Mikhi.

 

[MounchesterUtd]

Mate he keeps playing Fellaini and he keeps playing Darmian as LB.

He keeps on playing Fellaini because we need height, yes I know he isn't Ronaldo aerially but size is still size. Just ask Citeh. If we invest in tall players the summer and Felli is still playing, then I myself will question him.

Darmian's been decent. Not United quality, but better than Shaw this year. I myself prefer Blind at LB for his passing but we all know Jose likes defensive players first. Point is, I don't think it's out of the ordinary judging by his past tendencies.

Going back to Tony, he thrived last year playing in a system that was designed to accommodate his weaknesses and compliment his strengths. If he struggles to replicate this form under Mou, then maybe he's a system player after all. Maybe he's the one with a messianic complex. This is Manchester United, we don't field one man teams - even during the dark ages of 04-06 we never had to rely on just one guy.

For all of Rooney's perceived selfishness with the contract stunts, he was never not a team player on the pitch. Maybe Tony needs to hang out with our captain more than some IG thots.

 

[Fracture90]

The thing about football is retrospective and views in hindsight are not a science. If we played the same team, who's to say we might have lost. I'm sure Jose put a team out to win and I feel the chances created were enough to win the game. The unbeaten run continues....

But the team we played yesterday is much more limited than the one we played last week. It was plain obvious on the pitch yesterday.

We found our best 11 and we need to stick with it. When you see Arsenal, City, Spurs, Liverpool and Chelsea playing Stoke, do you see them changing their approach and gamestyle in order to counter Stoke's physicality?

Nope they play their game without changing.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Going into the game being "different" isn't a plausible argument for Rooney and Lingard over Martial. The question should be who is better.

I can understand him being dropped from the first XI now and again but last seasons best player should be in the squad.

Not playing like he has this season he shouldn't. At least he shouldn't be guaranteed his place. Using similar logic Januzaj should be on the bench too.

 

[Steven Seagull]

Good player but i think it's an attitude issue. For me he never fully commits himself and an old sports saying 'never leaves it all on the pitch'. I feel plays within himself and at times doesn't offer enough. If he had Lingards attitude and mentality he'd be an absolute world beater.....

When was this opinion formed? Because it certainly wasn't last year when he was the only one actually trying to score

 

[Dobbs]

Not playing like he has this season he shouldn't. At least he shouldn't be guaranteed his place. Using similar logic Januzaj should be on the bench too.

That really isn't similar logic.

I'd agree with you if the guys who kept him out of the squad had been playing well. They haven't. So in choosing from three guys who've all struggled this you go for the most talented.

 

[Litch]

What exactly do you mean by Lingard's attitude and mentality? Do you have the first clue about what mentality Martial has or why Lingard has a better mentality than Martial?

Don't need to have any clues but have an opinion. For me, despite the level of criticism Lingards gets pretty much since he came into the first team, he continues to give 100% application anytime I've seen him play. Martial for me mentality is more fragile. I don't suggest I'm right but Jose and France manager have consistently said he needs to give more for his ability and for me he's simply doesn't.

 

[NK86]

Don't need to have any clues but have an opinion. For me, despite the level of criticism Lingards gets pretty much since he came into the first team, he continues to give 100% application anytime I've seen him play. Martial for me mentality is more fragile. I don't suggest I'm right but Jose and France manager have consistently said he needs to give more for his ability and for me he's simply doesn't.

Martially mentally fragile! And Lingard isn't? Did we both see the same match where he was hiding the whole half because of a couple of poor first touches.

 

[Fracture90]

He keeps on playing Fellaini because we need height, yes I know he isn't Ronaldo aerially but size is still size. Just ask Citeh. If we invest in tall players the summer and Felli is still playing, then I myself will question him.

Darmian's been decent. Not United quality, but better than Shaw this year. I myself prefer Blind at LB for his passing but we all know Jose likes defensive players first. Point is, I don't think it's out of the ordinary judging by his past tendencies.

Going back to Tony, he thrived last year playing in a system that was designed to accommodate his weaknesses and compliment his strengths. If he struggles to replicate this form under Mou, then maybe he's a system player after all. Maybe he's the one with a messianic complex. This is Manchester United, we don't field one man teams - even during the dark ages of 04-06 we never had to rely on just one guy.

For all of Rooney's perceived selfishness with the contract stunts, he was never not a team player on the pitch. Maybe Tony needs to hang out with our captain more than some IG thots.

Height alone isn't enough to keep him in the team when every other aspect of our game is suffering because of it. At least that's my opinion.

Mourinho basically came out and said it that Fellaini is a nice guy, couldn't it be the sole reason for playing him? Hope not!

Not saying Martial should be a nail in starter but he's been playing very good constantly for over a month and not getting picked not even for the bench yesterday must be quite discouraging.

If you go and read my previous comment you'll find the reason I'm telling all this. Can't be bothered to write all that again, i apologise

 

[Pogue Mahone]

That really isn't similar logic.

I'd agree with you if the guys who kept him out of the squad had been playing well. They haven't. So in choosing from three guys who've all struggled this you go for the most talented.

I think Mourinho picks on what he's seen. And that's fair. Martial hasn't done himself justice this season and doesn't help himself by the way he can be fairly static and wait for the ball to get to him, instead of trying to create space for others by making off the ball runs. That's not going to endear himself to any manager, no matter how good he is at dribbling. It's not as though Mourinho's the only manager to lose patience with him, despite last season's performances. He's managed to marginalise himself for France too. He's yong and lernin and has to do more to earn his place back, for club and country.

 

[Litch]

But the team we played yesterday is much more limited than the one we played last week. It was plain obvious on the pitch yesterday.

We found our best 11 and we need to stick with it. When you see Arsenal, City, Spurs, Liverpool and Chelsea playing Stoke, do you see them changing their approach and gamestyle in order to counter Stoke's physicality?

Nope they play their game without changing.

I hear you but if you asked everyone on here for their best 11, they'd be lots of different teams. I think the difference between us and other teams is we have more options, and also I'm still not convinced Jose knows his best side. I think players like Martial I'd like to start more regular but he's just not consistent enough.

 

[MounchesterUtd]

Height alone isn't enough to keep him in the team when every other aspect of our game is suffering because of it. At least that's my opinion.

Mourinho basically came out and said it that Fellaini is a nice guy, couldn't it be the sole reason for playing him? Hope not!

Not saying Martial should be a nail in starter but he's been playing very good constantly for over a month and not getting picked not even for the bench yesterday must be quite discouraging.

If you go and read my previous comment you'll find the reason I'm telling all this. Can't be bothered to write all that again, i apologise

Well, Jose disagrees with you. He knows the extent of aerial attacks in the English game. He is a pragmatist by nature, and that's something I've long accepted. Maybe we do suffer building up attacks with Felli around, but the team had 5 (from my memory) chances to score against Stoke. Not his fault the forwards aren't more clinical.

Probably just a PR move to preserve his price.

I don't think he's been constantly good for over a month. He pops up with a great game, but more often has games where things just pass by him. He's young though so I'm not worried. I just hope he buys into what Jose's telling him and has enough love for us (he did say we're his childhood club) to persevere here. I think BDO winners weren't just born like that, they've had coaches that are constantly in their ear to improve them gradually. Jose can be this for Martial.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Not really sure we did. Mata had that miss, Pogba had that volley from corner and Lingard hitting the bar from 30 yards is pretty much all.

Zlatan's chance when he couldn't decide whether to pass it or try with his left foot not included.

My point is that he keeps shuffling the team completley unnecessary. If he played the same lineup he did against Liverpool, we would have won it by a margin.

Bullshit. The lineup we played against Liverpool needed a reshuffle to avoid being beaten by them. Why should he start with a team that was getting beaten until he changed it?

Carrick is 35 years old and isn't a physical freak like Zatan. He can't start every single game or we'll get more and more performances like we saw from him against the scousers. Martial had his chance in that game to nail down a spot against Stoke but simply wasn't good enough.

 

[Fracture90]

Well, Jose disagrees with you. He knows the extent of aerial attacks in the English game. He is a pragmatist by nature, and that's something I've long accepted. Maybe we do suffer building up attacks with Felli around, but the team had 5 (from my memory) chances to score against Stoke. Not his fault the forwards aren't more clinical.

Probably just a PR move to preserve his price.

I don't think he's been constantly good for over a month. He pops up with a great game, but more often has games where things just pass by him. He's young though so I'm not worried. I just hope he buys into what Jose's telling him and has enough love for us (he did say we're his childhood club) to persevere here. I think BDO winners weren't just born like that, they've had coaches that are constantly in their ear to improve them gradually. Jose can be this for Martial.

Mate you don't really see Chelsea, Citeh, Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool changing their game approach and style in order to combat Stoke's physicality. They keep playing their game.

I really want Martial to succeed here tho it will be hard if he's not even making bench when he's in a good run of games.

We did have few chances but all of them came from individual pieces of brilliance rader than from us controlling the game and building up an attacking action.

 

[Dobbs]

I hear you but if you asked everyone on here for their best 11, they'd be lots of different teams. I think the difference between us and other teams is we have more options, and also I'm still not convinced Jose knows his best side. I think players like Martial I'd like to start more regular but he's just not consistent enough.

Who though are the consistent wingers that should get in ahead of him?

 

[Fracture90]

I hear you but if you asked everyone on here for their best 11, they'd be lots of different teams. I think the difference between us and other teams is we have more options, and also I'm still not convinced Jose knows his best side. I think players like Martial I'd like to start more regular but he's just not consistent enough.

I agree there would be quite a few different teams but think that one i mentioned would be on the top probably.

Well anyway we lost yet another 2 pts. That's what matters.

 

[Litch]

When was this opinion formed? Because it certainly wasn't last year when he was the only one actually trying to score

So your're saying I must base my opinion on last year, and not this one? Where does that stop? I always base my opinion on today, I don't live on past glories...

 

[Fracture90]

Bullshit. The lineup we played against Liverpool needed a reshuffle to avoid being beaten by them. Why should he start with a team that was getting beaten until he changed it?

Carrick is 35 years old and isn't a physical freak like Zatan. He can't start every single game or we'll get more and more performances like we saw from him against the scousers. Martial had his chance in that game to nail down a spot against Stoke but simply wasn't good enough.

Maybe because that same team played great throughout the season as well as the Stoke game would be a perfect opportunity to bounce back?

You do know that Carrick played 2 games in a row in a span of only few days more than once this season? How come in those cases he was well rested?

Are you really arguing that Martial was bad against Liverpool? He was tormenting their RB until they started marking him with 3 players because they realised from where the danger is coming.

He also did so without any help from RB whatever nor from Pogba.

 

[MounchesterUtd]

Mate you don't really see Chelsea, Citeh, Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool changing their game approach and style in order to combat Stoke's physicality. They keep playing their game.

I really want Martial to succeed here tho it will be hard if he's not even making bench when he's in a good run of games.

We did have few chances but all of them came from individual pieces of brilliance rader than from us controlling the game and building up an attacking action.

We didn't, really. From the top of my head, we changed our approach against Liverpool in the first round. What I saw against Stoke was the same team I saw in our unbeaten run, minus Carrick pulling the strings. Fellaini might've made it harder for us to build up, but the gameplan was the same - we just couldn't score.

 

[Fracture90]

Who though are the consistent wingers that should get in ahead of him?

Very, very good point.

 

[Steven Seagull]

So your're saying I must base my opinion on last year, and not this one? Where does that stop? I always base my opinion on today, I don't live on past glories...

So why would you say he never leaves it all on the pitch?

 

[Fracture90]

We didn't, really. From the top of my head, we changed our approach against Liverpool in the first round. What I saw against Stoke was the same team I saw in our unbeaten run, minus Carrick pulling the strings. Fellaini might've made it harder for us to build up, but the gameplan was the same - we just couldn't score.

Shere absence of Carrick limits our attacking game by giving Pogba and Herrera additional defensive duties. Not to mention Fellaini who has no positional awareness, not passing range nor quality and makes us quite disjointed.

Also playing Mikhi on the left when his best games came from the right is bizarre decision.

I'am really struggling what was Mourinho's plan yesterday? Fellaini to battle their physicality, Mata who has no pace and Mikhi on the left? The fact we played Fellaini in MF 3 means Mata is forced to drop deep to touch the ball and is quite less effective then.

 

[KN5]

Very, very good point.

I could see a case for Rashford down the left but honestly, I think both Rashford and Martial have been at a similar level recently. Martial hasn't impressed but he hasn't been shockingly terrible like some suggest at all, I haven't read up on why he was out of the team today but I would prefer him back in 100%.