[breakout67]

Its very strange to bring in Mourinho when addressing the idea that we should sell him (almost as if they are trying to deflect blame onto the manager). The manager sees his talent and is giving him game time so he can improve so it is absurd to say that we should sell him. It is also absurd to say that the Manager has created faults in his play that weren't there before.

Last season Martial became a focal point of the team because he was in hot form, we were playing safe football and created very few chances. This meant that when Martial lost the ball we were not as vulnerable and Martial is very good in front of goal so he would convert our few chances regularly.

Martial is adapting to a new manager and a new way of playing. We should not expect martial to get 20 goals and 10 assists in a season at such a young age. Especially at a club like ours where most teams try to prevent us from scoring and put in 10% extra effort. He is a very good player with lots of potential. Martial has 9 goals and 5 assists this season which is a solid contribution to the team as a squad player. If he can double this in the next 2-3 years while improving other aspects of his game then he will be a world class player.

 

[Full bodied red]

Thought that yesterday finally confirmed that he's way, way better as a LW than CF....

 

[Georgan]

Nope, he did better at CF yesterday than he has done at LW all season. It's not his fault that he has to play alone up top. I will never stop praising this guy, his adquisition is one of the best business done by the club in a long time. We need to be looking at ways of bringing the best out of him, playing him at CF. He needs proper support from the rest of the team and I'm sure he'll start banging them in. Rashford can play second fiddle to Martial, Martial is just way too good to be sitting on the bench or playing games where the team is going to sit back the whole game.

 

[SSSSnake]

Martial needs some coaching on his dribbling. The kid gets tackled 90% of the time he decides to dribble. Rashford has improved massively in that respect.

 

[beergod]

Thought that yesterday finally confirmed that he's way, way better as a LW than CF....

I think it's been obvious for quite some time that he is best playing as a left sided winger/forward, but somehow he's developed the Rooney syndrome of being better at whichever position he isn't currently occupying.

I hope he can go off on holiday and sort out his off the pitch issues and get back into form, because Mourinho isn't going to wait forever.

 

[Yoro99]

Has anybody else noticed he's always trying to dribble on the outside of the defender and loses possession 9/10 times. Maybe defenders are not showing him inside as much as last season but it would be nice if he atleast attempted to dribble inside every now and then as last year majority of his successful play was when he dribbled on the inside.

There's definitely a player in there it's just getting it out. No way should we sell him this early great players have peaked at 24-25 he's definitely got something in him.

 

[pocco]

Martial needs some coaching on his dribbling. The kid gets tackled 90% of the time he decides to dribble. Rashford has improved massively in that respect.

I actually think Martial is a much more talented dribbler of the ball. It's just not been his season and i think there are other reasons for his inconsistent play. It's amazing the effect that confidence can have on a player. It can literally be debilitating even if you're a very good player.

 

[Jaybomb]

I remember in this thread last year, when Martial kicked up a fuss about Zlatan taking his #9 shirt, I said "If he wants to throw his toys out of the pram, then he can leave. And he wouldn't be a big miss" and I still genuinely believe that.

Of course I got roasted back then. But I think his performances this season adds a bit of legitimacy to that opinion I had all those months ago.

He is a talented player but not an amazing player in my eyes. I hate how he never makes the runs and always wants the ball to his feet. It's frustrating.

 

[pocco]

I remember in this thread last year, when Martial kicked up a fuss about Zlatan taking his #9 shirt, I said "If he wants to throw his toys out of the pram, then he can leave. And he wouldn't be a big miss" and I still genuinely believe that.

Of course I got roasted back then. But I think his performances this season adds a bit of legitimacy to that opinion I had all those months ago.

He is a talented player but not an amazing player in my eyes. I hate how he never makes the runs and always wants the ball to his feet. It's frustrating.

Me and you have polar opposite views on football. You would discard Martial after the season he just had last year and yet you champion people like Lukaku who looks like a donkey some days and is a complete flat track bully, along with the prima donna diva that is James Rodriguez.

 

[VeevaVee]

Martial needs some coaching on his dribbling. The kid gets tackled 90% of the time he decides to dribble.

Wasn't that meant to be what he's good at? I honestly couldn't tell you what he is very good at. For someone who's been bigged up so much, that's quite strange

 

[Womp]

Nope, he did better at CF yesterday than he has done at LW all season. It's not his fault that he has to play alone up top. I will never stop praising this guy, his adquisition is one of the best business done by the club in a long time. We need to be looking at ways of bringing the best out of him, playing him at CF. He needs proper support from the rest of the team and I'm sure he'll start banging them in. Rashford can play second fiddle to Martial, Martial is just way too good to be sitting on the bench or playing games where the team is going to sit back the whole game.

Why would we bench Rashford for Martial when he's been better at CF and offers more to our attack than Martial does? The difference in talent between the two is vastly overrated too, you'd think Martial was Messi the way some go on about his natural ability.

He's a very good talent who's having a terrible season. Rashford will still be the better player of the two imo, due to his application, effort and desire.

All this talk about Martial not being able to do anything as a lone forward, look at Rashford just about every game since Ibra has been injured. Constantly closing down defenders, makign runs in behind, moving along the attacking third to confuse defenders etc.

For Martial it's just all excuses, the kid can do no wrong ffs.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Really hope Martial has a good rest in the summer and comes back next season with a point to prove.

 

[Jib]

Really hope Martial has a good rest in the summer and comes back next season with a point to prove.

This.
He is the most talented player in the squad after Pogba.

 

[Berbasbullet]

This.
He is the most talented player in the squad after Pogba.

Weird how from the Euros on wards he was so poor. He was so good last season.

 

[Home&Away]

Why would we bench Rashford for Martial when he's been better at CF and offers more to our attack than Martial does? The difference in talent between the two is vastly overrated too, you'd think Martial was Messi the way some go on about his natural ability.

He's a very good talent who's having a terrible season. Rashford will still be the better player of the two imo, due to his application, effort and desire.

All this talk about Martial not being able to do anything as a lone forward, look at Rashford just about every game since Ibra has been injured. Constantly closing down defenders, makign runs in behind, moving along the attacking third to confuse defenders etc.

For Martial it's just all excuses, the kid can do no wrong ffs.

Thing is it isn't that hard to get the best out of Martial AND Rashford. Just play them together. We have even played a 352 formation as a plan B and yet those 2 can barely get a game together.

For vast majority of the season we have tried to get the best out of a very talented 35 year old rather than get the best out of a very talented 19year old, not only has that put the youngsters progress down a year but it has also not been particularly successful since we haven't really ended up in the top 4. Martial is a striker and a very good striker for his age yet he simply isn't what Jose wants from a central striker. Just because Rashford is able to give our manager what he wants doesn't automatically make Martial a rubbish player. Thing is that's just how our manager is. He can be stubborn in what he wants.

 

[Womp]

Thing is it isn't that hard to get the best out of Martial AND Rashford. Just play them together. We have even played a 352 formation as a plan B and yet those 2 can barely get a game together.

For vast majority of the season we have tried to get the best out of a very talented 35 year old rather than get the best out of a very talented 19year old, not only has that put the youngsters progress down a year but it has also not been particularly successful since we haven't really ended up in the top 4. Martial is a striker and a very good striker for his age yet he simply isn't what Jose wants from a central striker. Just because Rashford is able to give our manager what he wants doesn't automatically make Martial a rubbish player. Thing is that's just how our manager is. He can be stubborn in what he wants.

I agree, I'd like to see both up top, but I wouldn't bench Rashford for Martial if we were going to opt for a one man system. Martial would have to work on his off the ball game because as was shown in the Chelsea game, Rashford thrives when he has a partner closing down etc. with him ala Lingard. I wouldn't be surprised if we were to go for that system next season with some new recruits but I don't think we have the players at the moment to go for such a system. Only player we really have who can get the ball forward is Pogba.

Also I never said Martial was rubbish, he is a little more talented than Rashford, but the difference is nowhere near as big as people make out on here. Me thinking Rashford will turn out the better player isn't a slight on Martial, it's not often you see player's with the drive Rashford has.

 

[Home&Away]

I agree, I'd like to see both up top, but I wouldn't bench Rashford for Martial if we were going to opt for a one man system. Martial would have to work on his off the ball game because as was shown in the Chelsea game, Rashford thrives when he has a partner closing down etc. with him ala Lingard. I wouldn't be surprised if we were to go for that system next season with some new recruits but I don't think we have the players at the moment to go for such a system. Only player we really have who can get the ball forward is Pogba.

Also I never said Martial was rubbish, he is a little more talented than Rashford, but the difference is nowhere near as big as people make out on here. Me thinking Rashford will turn out the better player isn't a slight on Martial, it's not often you see player's with the drive Rashford has.

I understand. It is just one of the things that worries me is the managers ability to be open to ideas. We are too much of a big club not to try different partnerships, different formations etc.

This is also not a dig at you but I find that people will have a dig at martials work rate even though I see him doing pleanty but understably not the best defensive work.

Martial is much more of a dribbler than rashford who is capable of leading line, making runs and is not bad at dribbling either - but very few dribblers actually carry out defensive work either way as it effects their positioning and ability to dribble at their defence.

He had a very good season last season but he also did fluctuate more when Rashford came in and he moved to the left. This was never a permanent thing ; neither was Lingard on the right. The right thing to do and what LVG would most likely have done is to play Martial and Rashford as wide forwards and Lingard centrally playing as the false runner and anchor.

I hope Jose opens up to something like this even if he doesn't use the same players.

 

[Gbenger]

The new scapegoat, which is a testament to Jose and his propaganda, amazing work. The only time we tried to create something in the first half, he got a shot away that Cech saved, Rooney's chance came because he pressed a defender. After that we just sat back, defended and played it long to him. It was the same performance as Rashford against City. But it's become the fashionable thing to blame him, because Jose said a few things, that's fine. It happened last season with Chelsea, managed to convince the fan base that Hazard was lazy, did it with Mata before that. Martial is class, proved it at Monaco, proved it at United last season. If a player has proved himself at this club, I'm more inclined to support them when things are not working well, those of you that think he should be sold are a disgrace and know nothing about football.

Excellent post, just exactly what I wanted to say.

 

[Mr Smith]

Its very strange to bring in Mourinho when addressing the idea that we should sell him (almost as if they are trying to deflect blame onto the manager). The manager sees his talent and is giving him game time so he can improve so it is absurd to say that we should sell him. It is also absurd to say that the Manager has created faults in his play that weren't there before.

Last season Martial became a focal point of the team because he was in hot form, we were playing safe football and created very few chances. This meant that when Martial lost the ball we were not as vulnerable and Martial is very good in front of goal so he would convert our few chances regularly.

Martial is adapting to a new manager and a new way of playing. We should not expect martial to get 20 goals and 10 assists in a season at such a young age. Especially at a club like ours where most teams try to prevent us from scoring and put in 10% extra effort. He is a very good player with lots of potential. Martial has 9 goals and 5 assists this season which is a solid contribution to the team as a squad player. If he can double this in the next 2-3 years while improving other aspects of his game then he will be a world class player.

Very good post. Glad to see there's some reason setting in around here.

 

[Icemav]

I remember in this thread last year, when Martial kicked up a fuss about Zlatan taking his #9 shirt, I said "If he wants to throw his toys out of the pram, then he can leave. And he wouldn't be a big miss" and I still genuinely believe that.

Of course I got roasted back then. But I think his performances this season adds a bit of legitimacy to that opinion I had all those months ago.

He is a talented player but not an amazing player in my eyes. I hate how he never makes the runs and always wants the ball to his feet. It's frustrating.

Good post. There will always be chaps here who will defend a player be it Adnan, Wilson, Depay, whoever trying to believe in their potential above all else. Yes young players need time however a lot of nuance needs to go into appraising them. Some just arent good enough. Some dont suit the league. Some dont suit the team. Some dont develop. Some dont have the desire. Others the brain.

Now I was a big fan of Martial last season and thought he had potential to be a worldy (whereas I immediately thought Memphis would be a bust). This season I am worried. People need to remember he is not a Mou player so there is always give and take between the manager adjusting to the players and players adjusting to the Managers tactics. Martial just hasnt looked good.... poor decision making, poor intelligence, poor execution. Consistently. Rashford has also had a couple of stinkers but you see him working hard and adapting his game and bringing value to the team. His IQ is increasing unlike Martial who is starting to look v limited in terms of his development and whether he can step up to the next level.

Yes young players need time, like Christiano did and Rashford does, but you need to see signs of progress and attitude and footballing intelligence are key if the raw tools are there. Martial has started to worry and irritate me. I dont know him obviously so I hope its only temporary and he not quite there mentally for whatever reason.... but he doesnt have as long as some think to turn this around. Big clubs need productivity and cant carry players indefinitely. If there are better winger and CFs out there we will get them.

 

[Striker10]

Martial isn't a problem. A season like this can even help him as there are peaks and their are falls. We know what he can do and so it's very difficult if your match rhythm isn't 100%. If he can score some important goals between now and the end of the season then that's ok. He needs to work hard and just attack players like we know he can. Maybe defenders have got closer to him this season - he will need to adapt and that will improve him further. We just have to be patient

 

[Icemav]

Martial isn't a problem. A season like this can even help him as there are peaks and their are falls. We know what he can do and so it's very difficult if your match rhythm isn't 100%. If he can score some important goals between now and the end of the season then that's ok. He needs to work hard and just attack players like we know he can. Maybe defenders have got closer to him this season - he will need to adapt and that will improve him further. We just have to be patient

Like you I hope this is a key stage in his mental development. Whether he kicks on from here remains to be seen but i know everybody wants him to.

 

[VeevaVee]

We have a problem in that we can't afford to be so lame on that side, and I don't know if Martial is prepared to, or has the right mindset to wait and earn his place and still develop (like the young player he is anyway) while we bring someone effective in for the time being and he be second string.

 

[Womp]

We have a problem in that we can't afford to be so lame on that side, and I don't know if Martial is prepared to, or has the right mindset to wait and earn his place and still develop (like the young player he is anyway) while we bring someone effective in for the time being and he be second string.

I hear that Neymar lad is a decent prospect

 

[VeevaVee]

I hear that Neymar lad is a decent prospect

That's a good one, but there's some genuine options with more experience for the time being

 

[Pearson]

JM demands him to do a lot of defensive job for the team just as he asked Hazard last year. Not so sure if that is a good idea.

Hazard's leg was pretty heavy last season because he was way too far from penalty area where you supposed him to be lethal and do harm to opponents. That's what a killer like Mathial and Hazard should be asked to do. But they are asked to juggle multiple tasks.

Mathial can be really effective when he is near the goal and the box, I don't think there are many defender in PL who could match his combination of pace and strength and his swift turn. It is the same case with Hazard, you can't expect him 50 yards away from the box doing diligent defending and provide threat in the meantime.

I don't think JM is using him correctly. What I see is his greatest asset has been lying idle. That could rust the blade.

But maybe I am wrong, after all, football has changed a lot. Nowadays, all most everyone needs to contribute to defense.

 

[Stacks]

JM demands him to do a lot of defensive job for the team just as he asked Hazard last year. Not so sure if that is a good idea.

Hazard's leg was pretty heavy last season because he was way too far from penalty area where you supposed him to be lethal and do harm to opponents. That's what a killer like Mathial and Hazard should be asked to do. But they are asked to juggle multiple tasks.

Mathial can be really effective when he is near the goal and the box, I don't think there are many defender in PL who could match his combination of pace and strength and his swift turn. It is the same case with Hazard, you can't expect him 50 yards away from the box doing diligent defending and provide threat in the meantime.

I don't think JM is using him correctly. What I see is his greatest asset has been lying idle. That could rust the blade.

But maybe I am wrong, after all, football has changed a lot. Nowadays, all most everyone needs to contribute to defense.

I was thinking this aswell and it is no slight on Jose as he didn't sign Martial. I don't feel every winger is suited to the multiple task role and many attacking players need to just be allowed to attack rather than tracking fullbacks or doubling up on their opposite man. different strokes different folks

 

[shield]

Jose needs to organize the attack better. Martial is the only threat we have at the moment and is easily marked. Then people come here and complain about his "dribbling", about him "running into a wall of defenders". Half the match we are sitting deep in our half trying to "contain" sides, even against dross like Burnley.

There is nothing coming from our right, nothing from the middle, nothing anywhere. Contrast that to City where you have Sterling from one end, Sane from the other, De Bruyne from the center and all players pushing ahead trying to create something. Even Tottenham, where Son Heung Min, a squad player, has discovered great from due to their attacking intent. Forward players need a positive attacking environment to perform well.

In the last match, Arsenal kept pushing even after scoring their first goal and got a second. If that had been us, we would have immediately sat back after scoring a goal and substituted Mata for a defender.

I think it was that Chelsea match, where he played almost like an LB and got a warm embrace from Jose. Is this what we have reduced our attacking players to. Mata almost as wing back, Mkhi as wing back, Martial as LB. What rubbish is going on.

Smalling and Jones gave an appalling performance in the last match, but we are sure to see more of them, maybe as a part of a back three, maybe as a FB, or even as a DM. Martial on the other hand will surely be benched for failing to score by dribbling past the entire Arsenal backline.

 

[Pearson]

I was thinking this aswell and it is no slight on Jose as he didn't sign Martial. I don't feel every winger is suited to the multiple task role and many attacking players need to just be allowed to attack rather than tracking fullbacks or doubling up on their opposite man. different strokes different folks

He need space to maneuvre. After all, he is not Messi. We did not create enough space for our wingers and strikers. No wonder he always faces a wall of defenders.

 

[dichinero]

I was thinking this aswell and it is no slight on Jose as he didn't sign Martial. I don't feel every winger is suited to the multiple task role and many attacking players need to just be allowed to attack rather than tracking fullbacks or doubling up on their opposite man. different strokes different folks

Hazard himself has said on numerous occasions that Conte has unleashed him, freeing him from defensive duties, which makes sense for an attacking player. Apparently, José wanted him to more defensive last season despite having a fantastic season before

 

[Z_Wolf]

Hazard himself has said on numerous occasions that Conte has unleashed him, freeing him from defensive duties, which makes sense for an attacking player. Apparently, José wanted him to more defensive last season despite having a fantastic season before

Problem is, Hazard himself had his best season bar the current season playing under Jose.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Hazard himself has said on numerous occasions that Conte has unleashed him, freeing him from defensive duties, which makes sense for an attacking player. Apparently, José wanted him to more defensive last season despite having a fantastic season before

That's why the 343 suits the wing forwards so much, especially somebody like Hazard. He hasn't got the big stamina like some wingers, instead he's short powerful bursts. I think Martial is in the same catagory, he struggles getting up and down the pitch and remaining effective.

I think 3-4-3 could bring the best out of him and Mkhitaryan, but we need defenders who can be comfortable on the ball and actually understand it tactically. Smalling and Jones looked so clueless when we tried to play it

 

[dichinero]

Problem is, Hazard himself had his best season bar the current season playing under Jose.

I agree but that season, he was not burdened with defensive duties which seems to be the go to pragmatic José

 

[Jeffthered]

Good learning curve for Martial this season, in terms of playing for a big club. I think he has great potential and he was superb last season. I don't want him going anywhere, if he leaves, Jose' will create a lot of pressure for himself. Yes, Martial certainly does need to develop his game... he needs to 'want' to score goals.. not just clever, pretty, good-looking goals... he needs to be an absolute monster to play against. Look at Rashford... just wants to get the ball and attack defenders. Martial plays likes he is hasn't anything to prove and that isn't on. His game is a little one-dimensional and he needs to address that. How good does he want to be? And when does he play and apply himself, when he is happy?

That's where he must (and hopefully has) learned. But Jose doesn't help by blaming him (and other players) for this or that. It'll all come back to him (jose) in the end.

 

[Janson]

This.

This sudden need to compare him to Rashford and wanting tohave him play like him is quite weird. It somehow just blew out of nowhere and suddenly you have people constantly comparing him to Rashford as if he needs to tailor his game style like Rashfords. Some silly suggestions really.

Martial play his own game which is fine in itself and was wowing people last year. Him having a hard season and not being the managers favorite doesn't suddenly means he has to start playing like someone else let alone one whom he's clearly more talented than.

And how many players constantly run all over the place like Rashford or Lingard? Not many. You don't see all these top attacking talents and players running themselves to the ground the way Rashford does and it's fine, nor anyone should care. Rashford plays that way which is serving him just fine but let's not pretend like that's the way everyone else especially Martial has to play. That's not his game and it probably never will be.

So let's just stop looking for ridiculous reasons to complain about the guy. At least complain about something sensible, not wanting him to be some Rashford wannabe with the constant hassling and running.

Completely agree. Conserving your energy only to use it at the right times is a very important skill in football, and he does this well. The problem is that he hasn't been playing well. If he had been playing well, nobody would be mentioning the lack of tenacity. Also unfortunately for him, Mourinho likes his wide players to put in a shift. Obviously this could be excused if your actually producing like a Robben or Ronaldo. But this doesn't mean he can't succed in a different system.

Defending from a wide attacking position doesn't necessarily mean you should be constantly running up and down chasing players. What's most important in these situations is having your positioning down, knowing exactly where to be and when to chase or stay in your position to try interfering with passing lanes. Florent Malouda was a player who was exellent at this, yet he was called lazy because he wasn't running around a lot.
This is an area where Martial also needs to improve to compliment his playing style. This is something you get better at with age though.

 

[SachinJ22]

It's good thing DDG didn't have the armband otherwise, you'd have expected him to score. Martial was the main striker. Also, if we want to talk about money Rooney cost £25.6 million and has been a great value. Martial, on the other hand, cost a minimum of £36 million. We'll wait and see how much value he is.

The highest paid Swansea defender makes £22,50,000. Martial makes about triple that. What was Martial's difference in that match? He also makes three times as much as Rashford.

For the fees that most of these players cost and also for what they get paid they should all be difference makers.

The younger Rooney would have costed more than 50 million in the current market. Martial hasn't played as a main striker all through the season, he plays one match as a striker in a match which was a dead rubber and you people start criticising him. You can't expect 21 year olds who are low on confidence to play like Harry Kane or Messi or Ronaldo.

 

[Borden]

He might perform better if we didn't play him as a wing-back (and the occasional game as an isolated CF). Just a thought.

 

[Z_Wolf]

I agree but that season, he was not burdened with defensive duties which seems to be the go to pragmatic José

Fair enough but you can't put his lack of intelligent movement in and around the box solely down to defensive duties. We've had more than 60% possession in most games anyway.

 

[Z_Wolf]

I agree but that season, he was not burdened with defensive duties which seems to be the go to pragmatic José

Fair enough but you can't put his lack of intelligent movement in and around the box solely down to defensive duties. We've had more than 60% possession in most games anyway.

 

[Boycott]

He was outstanding last season. The main bright spark and arguably the best young player in the league. Young players also go through tough periods they have to ride out. Rashford struggled in the middle period of the season yet is now firing again and the caf loves him again. Martial's talent is extremely high and should be persevered with.