[el3mel]

Errr. Your sarcasm does not even make a little sense because Martial performed superbly the whole season last year with a different manager. He has also come back and performed well on numerous occasions after being dropped. He is having a bad/ok second season with personal problems and not having the trust of the manager - give it a rest already.

The last season is irrelevant because 1) he was the only player available in the team and we were comparing him to Lingard and Rooney and 2) LVG attacking system depends on restricting all his players for the possession philosophy while giving one player in the attacking third the freedom to do anything he likes as Robben in both Bayern and Netherlands and that was Martial in our team. Martial played in a system used to benefit only him last season so it's normal to appear with this performance.

I don't know when he performed well this season . It's just some random games in February when he was struggling to get back to starting XI and after he returned he dropped back to his horrible performance. He started the season horribly forcing the manager to bench him , and whenever the manager puts him a sub he never breaks a sweat so what is the manager supposed to do ??? Play him all the time even if he's doing horribly just because he's a young talent ?? How can we compare what Mikhi and Rashford are doing with what Martial does ??

The fact here is Mikhi and Rashford force themselves on the manager because of their work ethic or products while Martial never ,never this season made Jose ashamed of benching him , on the contrary he always proved to Jose that he was right to play Rashford and Mikhi more than him.

 

[Garethw]

So they said last night during the game that if he scores one more goal we will have to pay Monaco £8 million.

The fact that he's being played is surely a clear indication that he's not being sold this summer.

 

[Dobbs]

He played in a team coached by LVG. His lack of off the ball movement would have been seen as a positive.

Not by the fans it wouldn't.

It's not that telling because Martials shit smelled like roses on here last year. He could do no wrong. If you didn't say he was nailed on to win a balon d'or you were met with outrage. Simple fact is he is a one trick pony. He only has one part to his game and that's isn't good enough to be the best.

It's telling because nobody brought it up (except for JPRouve it seems who touched on it once). Now of course its gained some traction and become a common concensus. I'd wager when his form picks up again the movement complaint will fade away.

Martial's shit deserved to smell like roses last season. Simple fact is that he's 21 and last season had a year very few young players can match.

 

[Slavkov]

Sometimes having the talent is simply not enough. A player must have determination and strong mentality and to give his best week in and week out in order to succeed. Is Fergie to blame for Ravel, Ando, Thornley, etc...? I do not think so. The footballing world is full of huge talents that simply did not prosper because they lacked something. It is still early for Martial and I really hope that he would prove me wrong but I really think he is facing huge issues...

 

[Manny]

That it was met with outrage is telling. Nobody else seemingly having a problem with his movement(I didn't think there was a problem with it).

Fast forward to this season, he's playing poorly and apparently it's a major flaw in his game.

I think this movement thing is being overplayed. Of course it could be better because he's only 21 but the real problem is the lack of confidence and enjoyment in his game.

We played most of the game in the final third last season. His lack of movement off the ball is far more apparent now that there is more space to work with.

Not to say that his lack of off the ball movement last year wasn't apparent. I still remember being surprised by his movement for Rashfords goal against City to drag the right back away from Rashford, leaving him one on one with the CB.

On top of that, everyone was focused on finding blame in LvG and the philosophy.

 

[Fracture90]

"Off the ball movement" is just the perfect excuse. Mourinho needs to understand instead of trying to change his players he should play to their strengths. Some players excell when given the ball at their feet, others while on the run.

You can't run behind the defense when the bus is parked or when Fellaini or Herrera are the ones in charge of making that crucial pass behind the defense.

As I said previously his off pitch issues and Mourinho's odd treatment have completely killed his confidence.

I really doubt he'll still be here come August, which is bad since last season under LVG he was a world beater and wherever he goes in a different system with a manager that is willing to put some more trust in him, he'll perform.

 

[Manny]

I know f-all about football, as I've proven on many occasions, and here's some more proof: I feel that Ant heads down blind allies when facing defenders, as if that (successful) dribble on his debut - when he took the ball between two defenders and scored - is stuck in his mind. Giggs used to do similar, and it didn't even work every time for a talent like him.

Rashford is the same. I feel like they've grown up watching too much Lionel Messi and think the only thing to do is slow down when they receive the ball, face up the defender and try and beat him. Ends badly mostly with them running it out of play or losing the ball to the covering defender.

 

[Damien]

He hasn't had a run of games in the slightest. I can't be bothered to find them, but I'm pretty sure @Damien has statistics that show exactly how little regularity he has had. I don't think he's started three consecutive matches since September. It was only a few weeks back he looked like coming into some form, yet now we're back to square one. Everything I've ever seen from Martial suggests he's up for it. He doesn't sprint around like a madman, nor does he show a great deal of expression, but he showed more than enough balls last season to know he's made of the right stuff. If we play him we'll be better for it. This applies to all of our better players, something you can't seem to get your head around.

Here you go:

Spoiler

He did start three a few months ago but since then both Fellaini and Mkhitaryan have overtaken him in terms of minutes played.

Stats just for games in 2017:

Spoiler

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Is it just me or has Martial been pretty poor all season, even in pre-season, apart from a few games?

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Of course, he's the most talented youngster we've had since Ronaldo and he had an amazing first season. He is 21 years old ffs and is short of confidence because he was unfairly dropped in the past. People back him because they see the obvious quality he has and if he is given a run of games, he will get back to his best.

He was not unfairly dropped, he was dropped as his performances were below the required standard

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

He was not unfairly dropped, he was dropped as his performances were below the required standard

People seem unable to comprehend that.

Bar about 4 or 5 games he's been absolute tosh this season. His cameo last night was a perfect example of that, he came on against a team that wasn't up to much with loads of space in behind to attack and he did nothing.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

People seem unable to comprehend that.

Bar about 4 or 5 games he's been absolute tosh this season. His cameo last night was a perfect example of that, he came on against a team that wasn't up to much with loads of space in behind to attack and he did nothing.

I have always hated the way people expect certain players to start regardless of form, if you aren't performing you don't play.

 

[Carlsen19]

People seem unable to comprehend that.

Bar about 4 or 5 games he's been absolute tosh this season. His cameo last night was a perfect example of that, he came on against a team that wasn't up to much with loads of space in behind to attack and he did nothing.

He was actually quite crap in a lot of games last year as well but his goals masked this.

 

[TonyMarshall]

Tony needs an extended run in the team.

 

[Adisa]

I have been upset with him lately but yesterday took the cake. There were a number of counter attacks yesterday, with him 30/40 meters behind the ball. What the feck is that about? There was one with Ibra, Mkhi and Pogba busting their guts to push forward and this guy wasn't even in the picture.
This guy needs to shape up.

 

[Adisa]

Tony needs an extended run in the team.

BS

 

[TonyMarshall]

BS

Wot does bastian schweinsteiger have to do with this

 

[Esquire]

Tony needs an extended run in the team.

On what basis. That he is the most talented. Based on last year. Based on his evident selfish displays of sulking and being called out by Mou?

Many want him to succeed but the fact is he is not playing as well as Rashford and Lingard. He needs to sit and earn his spot back.

 

[stevoc]

It's not just that, his general attitude has been poor too. Take a look at Rashford yesterday, he worked his arse off for the team and did a great job defensively, could you honestly see Martial doing that?

Yes why not i've seen him put in plenty of defensive work this season and track back. Especially when Darmian is behind him and he knows he has to help him out with defending.

He isn't at a level where he can forgo all other aspects of his game. Until he starts showing commitment to Jose, like Rashford, Mhkitaryan and even Shaw recently, he'll see his playing time strictly limited. And rightfully so

Think that needs to work both ways. Jose has been great with Fellaini and backed him to the hilt, i wish he would show half of that trust with talented young kids like Martial and Shaw. The backing Fellaini has been given is admirable but probably pointless as theres no real upside Fellaini is what he is he's not going to improve at 29.

Martial on the other hand is one of the most promising young players in world football. I think some forget just how young he is, and thats he's had some upheaval in his personal life recently. The kid needs developing, he needs to be trusted and yeah sometimes given leeway and a run in the team even if he has a few bad games. Some players need to play themselves into form. The approach currently being taken with Martial i only see ending one way, him leaving and going somewhere else where he will develop into a top player.

Van Gaal had the likes of Martial and Rashford playing out of their skin because he showed faith in them and kept playing them. Jose needs to start trusting young players, as all our young players seem to be going backwards under him. And thats worrying for the future.

 

[ivaldo]

Yes why not i've seen him put in plenty of defensive work this season and track back. Especially when Darmian is behind him and he knows he has to help him out with defending.



Think that needs to work both ways. Jose has been great with Fellaini and backed him to the hilt, i wish he would show half of that trust with talented young kids like Martial and Shaw. The backing Fellaini has been given is admirable but probably pointless as theres no real upside Fellaini is what he is he's not going to improve at 29.

Martial on the other hand is one of the most promising young players in world football. I think some forget just how young he is, and thats he's had some upheaval in his personal life recently. The kid needs developing, he needs to be trusted and yeah sometimes given leeway and a run in the team even if he has a few bad games. Some players need to play themselves into form. The approach currently being taken with Martial i only see ending one way, him leaving and going somewhere else where he will develop into a top player.

Van Gaal had the likes of Martial and Rashford playing out of their skin because he showed faith in them and kept playing them. Jose needs to start trusting young players, as all our young players seem to be going backwards under him. And thats worrying for the future.

I think you're being very generous to say Martial had been putting that kind of work in for us, he certainly hasn't this season.

It doesn't work both ways. The manager picks the team and no player should above the manager. He needs to prove himself to Jose, not the other way around. He needs to realise he doesn't have a God given right to start every game. Jose has set the challenge for other players and they have stepped up, why is Martial above them?

The thing is, Martial isn't being shunned on the sidelines, he's been given plenty of games and he's played poorly, he's played more than Lingard and about the same as Mhkitaryan in the league this season. The difference being the aforementioned players have shown their commitment, it's time for Martial to step up and stop sulking.

 

[stevoc]

It doesn't work both ways. The manager picks the team and no player should above the manager. He needs to prove himself to Jose, not the other way around. He needs to realise he doesn't have a God given right to start every game. Jose has set the challenge for other players and they have stepped up, why is Martial above them?

The thing is, Martial isn't being shunned on the sidelines, he's been given plenty of games and he's played poorly, he's played more than Lingard and about the same as Mhkitaryan in the league this season. The difference being the aforementioned players have shown their commitment, it's time for Martial to step up and stop sulking.

Well Jose can keep handling him as he has been but it clearly isn't working. Its Mourinho's job at the end of the day to get the best out of these players, not play favourites. So if sporadic appearances and being dropped after every iffy performance isn't working with Martial then its time to try something different. Give him 10-15 starts in a row and see where he is after that, if he's still playing poorly then maybe it's not going to work for him here.

As for why he is above certain other players, isn't that obvious?

The club invested the best part of £40-60m into Martial and he has huge potential, this guy is a potential world class player. There is a massive upside for United on and off the pitch in seeing Martial developing into a top player. If ensuring that development means giving him games over the likes of Lingard then so be it.

 

[dirkey]

Well Jose can keep handling him as he has been but it clearly isn't working. Its Mourinho's job at the end of the day to get the best out of these players, not play favourites. So if sporadic appearances and being dropped after every iffy performance isn't working with Martial then its time to try something different. Give him 10-15 starts in a row and see where he is after that, if he's still playing poorly then maybe it's not going to work for him here.

As for why he is above certain other players, isn't that obvious?

The club invested the best part of £40-60m into Martial and he has huge potential, this guy is a potential world class player. There is a massive upside for United on and off the pitch in seeing Martial developing into a top player. If ensuring that development means giving him games over the likes of Lingard then so be it.

You see, I don't agree with this. Not for Martial, nor anyone else. Lingard doesn't start every game, nor does Rashford, nor Mkhitaryan, nor Mata. Ibra and Pogba are the only ones who do (rightly or wrongly, I personally feel they should be more liable for poor performances than they are).

I think if players play well, they should stay in there. If they don't, they should be dropped. Maybe not instantly - maybe not every time they have a bad performance. But a couple in a row etc. The other thing is, we don't know exactly what instructions Jose is giving to his players. Perhaps Martial simply isn't following them the way Jose wants, and Lingard and Rashford are slightly better at it? Who knows.

He definitely has the talent to be phenomenal. But he's allowed himself to become too one dimensional and predictable. Whether it's his fault, or Jose's (or a combination of the two), realistically it's up to Martial to sort it out, as he's the one who will lose out ultimately, the manager picks the team. Whether he gets it more right than wrong is another thing.

 

[stevoc]

You see, I don't agree with this. Not for Martial, nor anyone else. Lingard doesn't start every game, nor does Rashford, nor Mkhitaryan, nor Mata. Ibra and Pogba are the only ones who do (rightly or wrongly, I personally feel they should be more liable for poor performances than they are).

I think if players play well, they should stay in there. If they don't, they should be dropped. Maybe not instantly - maybe not every time they have a bad performance. But a couple in a row etc. The other thing is, we don't know exactly what instructions Jose is giving to his players. Perhaps Martial simply isn't following them the way Jose wants, and Lingard and Rashford are slightly better at it? Who knows.

He definitely has the talent to be phenomenal. But he's allowed himself to become too one dimensional and predictable. Whether it's his fault, or Jose's (or a combination of the two), realistically it's up to Martial to sort it out, as he's the one who will lose out ultimately, the manager picks the team. Whether he gets it more right than wrong is another thing.

Some players need to be given a run though, every player is different. Some respond to being dropped in a positive way, others don't. We can bleat on about what players do and don't deserve, but Jose's current handling of Martial isn't working. So all i'm suggesting is maybe it's time for him to try a different approach. Our best player from last season has been awful, i mean his longest run of starts this season has been 3-4 games in a row and that happened only once or twice. I'm not sure thats long enough for a player to play themselves into form.

My problem with Jose's handling of Martial is that he is way too harsh on him and a few others like Shaw. One bad performance and they are back to the bench for a few games. Yet others can have stinkers and play the next game, for some players like Ibra you can say fair enough because he's our top scorer. But it's happening with other players too, so Jose isn't running a meritocracy.

 

[ivaldo]

Well Jose can keep handling him as he has been but it clearly isn't working. Its Mourinho's job at the end of the day to get the best out of these players, not play favourites. So if sporadic appearances and being dropped after every iffy performance isn't working with Martial then its time to try something different. Give him 10-15 starts in a row and see where he is after that, if he's still playing poorly then maybe it's not going to work for him here.

As for why he is above certain other players, isn't that obvious?

The club invested the best part of £40-60m into Martial and he has huge potential, this guy is a potential world class player. There is a massive upside for United on and off the pitch in seeing Martial developing into a top player. If ensuring that development means giving him games over the likes of Lingard then so be it.

It's Jose's job to play the best team, Martial isn't part of that team and it's up to him to show the commitment of the other players in his positon. If he isn't willing to show that then he shouldn't be here, period.

He's doing the opposite of playing favourites, he's treating all players the same and he's playing those who are contributing most to the team. We don't have the time to mollycoddle Martial and play him into form, every game counts now and we can't afford for him to do sod all going forward and even less defensively. If Martial can't be arsed to knuckle down and commit then why should Jose indulge him? He's not Ronaldo, he needs to stop sulking.

 

[dirkey]

Some players need to be given a run though, every player is different. Some respond to being dropped in a positive way, others don't. We can bleat on about what players do and don't deserve, but Jose's current handling of Martial isn't working. So all i'm suggesting is maybe it's time for him to try a different approach. Our best player from last season has been awful, i mean his longest run of starts this season has been 3-4 games in a row and that happened only once or twice. I'm not sure thats long enough for a player to play themselves into form.

My problem with Jose's handling of Martial is that he is way too harsh on him and a few others like Shaw. One bad performance and they are back to the bench for a few games. Yet others can have stinkers and play the next game, for some players like Ibra you can say fair enough because he's our top scorer. But it's happening with other players too, so Jose isn't running a meritocracy.

That's true, that every player is different. But I really feel the only players who routinely start despite bad games are Pogba and Ibra. And I can understand why - both are game changers. Pogba, we simply don't have anyone else to put in his spot. Ibra - he's our only goalscorer. He annoys the heck out of me, sure. But his goalscoring record is simply phenomenal.

I do agree that some respond in certain ways, but you simply have to show the hunger and desire to own that position when you get your shot. For me, Martial hasn't. It's true that dropping him hasn't worked. But why does he deserve it more, to get 10-15 games in a row, than Lingard / Rashford? They've been similar with regard to how well they've played (and for me Rashford has started to look dangerous again recently) and they show a lot more hunger out there when they do get their chance. As I said, I suspect Martial also isn't following orders the way he needs to. That's total speculation on my part obviously!

When you say he's too harsh on Martial, is he really? When he doesn't play well, he's left out. When Rashford doesn't play well, he's left out, likewise Lingard. It's not different approach for those fighting for the same position. Shaw is a different case, I do think he should have played more. But then again, as has been documented, he's not the first coach to complain about his conditioning and approach to training etc.

 

[stevoc]

It's Jose's job to play the best team, Martial isn't part of that team and it's up to him to show the commitment of the other players in his positon. If he isn't willing to show that then he shouldn't be here, period.

Yeah and Martial should be part of that, if he isn't performing he needs to figure why and how to fix it. So far this season he hasn't.

He's doing the opposite of playing favourites, he's treating all players the same and he's playing those who are contributing most to the team. We don't have the time to mollycoddle Martial and play him into form, every game counts now and we can't afford for him to do sod all going forward and even less defensively. If Martial can't be arsed to knuckle down and commit then why should Jose indulge him? He's not Ronaldo, he needs to stop sulking.

Sorry mate but thats bollocks in my opinion. For a start Ibra and Pogba play every game they are fit regardless of their last performance. It extends to others at times, but just in relation to this discussion for example as i said above Martials longest run of starts this season has been 4 games. Conversely Lingard has just started his 5th game in a row and yet i don't think his performances have warranted it. He again had a stinker last night and yet i would put good money on him starting sunday vs Chelsea.

 

[stevoc]

That's true, that every player is different. But I really feel the only players who routinely start despite bad games are Pogba and Ibra. And I can understand why - both are game changers. Pogba, we simply don't have anyone else to put in his spot. Ibra - he's our only goalscorer. He annoys the heck out of me, sure. But his goalscoring record is simply phenomenal.

I do agree that some respond in certain ways, but you simply have to show the hunger and desire to own that position when you get your shot. For me, Martial hasn't. It's true that dropping him hasn't worked. But why does he deserve it more, to get 10-15 games in a row, than Lingard / Rashford? They've been similar with regard to how well they've played (and for me Rashford has started to look dangerous again recently) and they show a lot more hunger out there when they do get their chance. As I said, I suspect Martial also isn't following orders the way he needs to. That's total speculation on my part obviously!

When you say he's too harsh on Martial, is he really? When he doesn't play well, he's left out. When Rashford doesn't play well, he's left out, likewise Lingard. It's not different approach for those fighting for the same position. Shaw is a different case, I do think he should have played more. But then again, as has been documented, he's not the first coach to complain about his conditioning and approach to training etc.

Because he is a potential world class player who cost the club a shit load of money. If the club and Jose go the extra mile to ensure he gets back to form and develops into a top player then that benefits the team and the clubs fortunes massively. If the opposite approach is taken and we just keep dropping him and showing no faith in him then he won't develop, he will likely leave and the club will have to take a massive financial hit on him.

 

[ivaldo]

Yeah and Martial should be part of that, if he isn't performing he needs to figure why and how to fix it. So far this season he hasn't.

Sorry mate but thats bollocks in my opinion. For a start Ibra and Pogba play every game they are fit regardless of their last performance. It extends to others at times, but just in relation to this discussion for example as i said above Martials longest run of starts this season has been 4 games. Conversely Lingard has just started his 5th game in a row and yet i don't think his performances have warranted it. He again had a stinker last night and yet i would put good money on him starting sunday vs Chelsea.

And it's up to Martial to prove he is good enough. As I said we haven't got time to play Martial out of his sulk, have you not read this forum after every game we don't win? Mourinho has players he can count on to perform to the job he gives them, who aren't playing shit and sulking like a child.

Yeah and Martial came on and did even less. Lingard has scored important goals for us this season, Martial has done literally nothing. You think a player who wanted to regain his starting position who actually try when coming on, until he shows he actually deserves to be playing, he doesn't deserve to play a single minute.

 

[Seanus]

Yeah and Martial should be part of that, if he isn't performing he needs to figure why and how to fix it. So far this season he hasn't.




Sorry mate but thats bollocks in my opinion. For a start Ibra and Pogba play every game they are fit regardless of their last performance. It extends to others at times, but just in relation to this discussion for example as i said above Martials longest run of starts this season has been 4 games. Conversely Lingard has just started his 5th game in a row and yet i don't think his performances have warranted it. He again had a stinker last night and yet i would put good money on him starting sunday vs Chelsea.

That is not right-it seems we have found the new whipping boy-remember when it was Darren Fletcher that got the stick? Fletcher eventually turned out to be a favourite-SAF saw something and persevered. Not everyone can be Ronaldo

 

[dirkey]

Because he is a potential world class player who cost the club a shit load of money. If the club and Jose go the extra mile to ensure he gets back to form and develops into a top player then that benefits the team and the clubs fortunes massively. If the opposite approach is taken and we just keep dropping him and showing no faith in him then he won't develop, he will likely leave and the club will have to take a massive financial hit on him.

Rashford is just as good as him, as a striker, in my opinion. And Lingard is much harder working. Martial hasn't shown anything world class this season overall, bar the odd flash every now and then. In fact, he's shown himself to be mostly one dimensional and predictable. He hasn't added anything to what he showed last year - the difference was he was more or less an unknown entity when he joined us, and defences didn't know how to cope with him.

It's true that a fortune has been spent on him. At the same time, I don't think a player deserves to play based upon his price tag.

 

[dirkey]

And it's up to Martial to prove he is good enough. As I said we haven't got time to play Martial out of his sulk, have you not read this forum after every game we don't win? Mourinho has players he can count on to perform to the job he gives them, who aren't playing shit and sulking like a child.

Yeah and Martial came on and did even less. Lingard has scored important goals for us this season, Martial has done literally nothing. You think a player who wanted to regain his starting position who actually try when coming on, until he shows he actually deserves to be playing, he doesn't deserve to play a single minute.

Well that's clearly wrong!

 

[ivaldo]

Well that's clearly wrong!

He's been worse than every other wide player this season.

 

[Raees]

Yeah and Martial should be part of that, if he isn't performing he needs to figure why and how to fix it. So far this season he hasn't.




Sorry mate but thats bollocks in my opinion. For a start Ibra and Pogba play every game they are fit regardless of their last performance. It extends to others at times, but just in relation to this discussion for example as i said above Martials longest run of starts this season has been 4 games. Conversely Lingard has just started his 5th game in a row and yet i don't think his performances have warranted it. He again had a stinker last night and yet i would put good money on him starting sunday vs Chelsea.

Totally agree. Absolutely bullshit to say Jose treats everyone the same. There is no evidence to back this claim up.

 

[ivaldo]

Totally agree. Absolutely bullshit to say Jose treats everyone the same. There is no evidence to back this claim up.

Martial has started one less game than Rashford, and two more than Lingard. Jose has rebuked plenty of players in public and they have responded, Martial hasn't. Hes sulked all season like a child. Hes being left out because his attitude is dogshit and his performances match it, there's your evidence.

 

[adamwest]

Love this guy but you'd be blinkered to say he hasn't been shite

 

[dirkey]

He's been worse than every other wide player this season.

That's not what you said though. You said "literally nothing".

Either way, I don't think he's been worse than every other wide player. They've all been average at best.
But, premier league stats:
Mkh, 1066 minutes, 4 goals, 1 assists. Involved in a goal every 213.2 minutes.
Martial, 994 minutes, 3 goals, 4 assists. Involved in a goal every 142 minutes.
Lingard, 1002 minutes, 1 goal, 2 assists. Involved in a goal every 334 minutes.
Mata, 1396 minutes, 6 goals, 3 assists. Involved in a goal every 155 minutes.

But we won't let facts get in the way of your agenda.

Bear in mind, I'm not his biggest fan, and can be seen arguing above that when he plays badly (as he has recently) he should be dropped. But to say he's done literally nothing, is completely wrong.

To say he's been worse than every other wide player is very objective. And I disagree. I think they've all been pretty average. And he's had better end product overall. As evidenced by what I've seen, along with what the stats bear out.

 

[dirkey]

Totally agree. Absolutely bullshit to say Jose treats everyone the same. There is no evidence to back this claim up.

I'd agree. But .. I think he treats all the wide players the same. And that's the difference. It's Ibra and Pogba who are untouchable. No-one else.

 

[ivaldo]

That's not what you said though. You said "literally nothing".

Either way, I don't think he's been worse than every other wide player. They've all been average at best.
But, premier league stats:
Mkh, 1066 minutes, 4 goals, 1 assists. Involved in a goal every 213.2 minutes.
Martial, 994 minutes, 3 goals, 4 assists. Involved in a goal every 142 minutes.
Lingard, 1002 minutes, 1 goal, 2 assists. Involved in a goal every 334 minutes.
Mata, 1396 minutes, 6 goals, 3 assists. Involved in a goal every 155 minutes.

But we won't let facts get in the way of your agenda.

Bear in mind, I'm not his biggest fan, and can be seen arguing above that when he plays badly (as he has recently) he should be dropped. But to say he's done literally nothing, is completely wrong.

To say he's been worse than every other wide player is very objective. And I disagree. I think they've all been pretty average. And he's had better end product overall. As evidenced by what I've seen, along with what the stats bear out.

It's a thin defense when your argument revolves around semantics.

Martial
League: 994
Europa: 395

Lingard
League: 994
Europa:295

But we won't let maths get in the way of your agenda.

So love it when the agenda bomb is dropped though. "He doesn't agree with me, he's got an agenda!" For what it's worth I had been a massive supporter of Martial, particularly at the beginning of the season when the nonsense about him being too youth was being thrown about. A simple search will reveal my staunch deserve of the player. But the simple fact is his attitude absolutely stinks at the moment, and people honestly Jose should pander to it? If he was performing to anywhere near his potential he should be afforded a little leeway, but he just doesn't deserve that right now.

You're right, our widemen have been mediocre, but the others have at least been willing to track back, work hard and follow Jose's instruction. Martial hasn't and that's why he's received less time than his talent merits, and rightfully so.

 

[dirkey]

Tbf, it is an utter trash post though.

Still genuinely wondering why you thought it was an utter trash post, when I stated that Martial was absolute garbage yesterday.

 

[dirkey]

It's a thin defense when your argument revolves around semantics.

Martial
League: 994
Europa: 395

Lingard
League: 994
Europa:295

But we won't let maths get in the way of your agenda.

So love it when the agenda bomb is dropped though. "He doesn't agree with me, he's got an agenda!" For what it's worth I had been a massive supporter of Martial, particularly at the beginning of the season when the nonsense about him being too youth was being thrown about. A simple search will reveal my staunch deserve of the player. But the simple fact is his attitude absolutely stinks at the moment, and people honestly Jose should pander to it? If he was performing to anywhere near his potential he should be afforded a little leeway, but he just doesn't deserve that right now.

You're right, our widemen have been mediocre, but the others have at least been willing to track back, work hard and follow Jose's instruction. Martial hasn't and that's why he's received less time than his talent merits, and rightfully so.

You see, I agree completely with your points about how they have been willing to track back. And how he shouldn't pander to youth. And that Martial's attitude has been bad.

And you're right, I shouldn't use the phrase of agenda, I regret that, as I don't like that, nor "fanboy" nor "hater" as terms which are used.

But what made me feel like you had an agenda is that you said he's done "literally nothing". That's simply not true. At the very worst you could say he's been as bad as the others. But he has done some good, and even great stuff, at times. As few and far between as they've been. Have the others really been better though? Worked harder, maybe.

Out of interest, where did you get your stats? I used who scored.
Martial: League 994, 3 + 4. Europa: 394, 1. Involved in a goal every 173.5 minutes.
Lingard: League 1002, 1 + 2. Europa: 274, 2 + 1. Involved in a goal every 212.6 minutes.