true... though a low center of gravity is also an advantage for players who want to dribble and turn... he cant change his genetics and im sure we have coaches who will help him develop his game best to suit his body as he grows
Angel Gomes
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That's because he met him that here and he ain't automatically became an option. And yes, is works in his favour because José likes him. Credit to José for trusting him tbh. IMO, Rashford stopped being a youth player the moment LvG considered him a member of the first team, he's just a young first team player. It's not the same as promoting youth players. LvG promoted youth that became first team players for José, that's how I see it.
I think its all down to attitude, talent, physical strength and position. A low center of gravity gives them better control over their feet and tend to make them better in dribbling. That's why some of the most technically gifted players in the world (Messi, Maradona, Scholes, Verratti and co) are less then 6ft tall. However that means jack shite if the player is easily bullied off the ball by his opponents or/and he doesn't have that fighting spirit needed to fight them back. Seba Giovinco comes to mind
Some of these players is not all were hardly tossed around the pitch. There are some short players that are strong enough to hold their own to a more than decent degree, Joe Allen is an example
That's not the point. LvG handed out a lot of debuts and token minutes to academy players but in the case of Rashford and a few others they were trusted to be in the first team. Starting games, big games and keeping their places.
Giving someone a debut is the first step in integrating academy players in the first team but it's also the easiest. As I said about token minutes and one or two dead rubber / throw away games
Except van Gaal was not really putting youth out there week in week out when we were still competitive.
I don't think giving debuts to players like McNair or Blackett is something to write home about. Mourinho has made sure we don't have to do that by building a good squad.
But well, people are crediting van Gaal with Iniesta development so nothing will surprise me. The man is a myth.
I can so see the caf going into meltdown if we lose this kid like we did with Ravel, the most natural footballer since Scholes.
Personally (and this is coming from someone who's 5'6 - so basically I'm between messi and gomes in height and skill level) I can't see someone smaller than me making it in a top 4 club unless they're like Messi. Also don't think Messi would have been as good as he is if he was 5'5 instead of 5'7 as it's not just height but muscle size, which includes speed etc, strength etc - and I don't think Gomes is even close to that level or he'd be playing a lot more first XI football by now.
If he signs then absolutely great as would be great to see what happens, but I wouldn't be losing sleep over him if he didn't sign. If he thinks he will sign for Real / Barca and get more game time than he does here then wow.
Personally (and this is coming from someone who's 5'6 - so basically I'm between messi and gomes in height and skill level) I can't see someone smaller than me making it in a top 4 club unless they're like Messi. Also don't think Messi would have been as good as he is if he was 5'5 instead of 5'7 as it's not just height but muscle size, which includes speed etc, strength etc - and I don't think Gomes is even close to that level or he'd be playing a lot more first XI football by now.
If he signs then absolutely great as would be great to see what happens, but I wouldn't be losing sleep over him if he didn't sign. If he thinks he will sign for Real / Barca and get more game time than he does here then wow.
Aaron Lennon is 5ft 4, Pedro and Raheem Sterling are just short of 5ft 6 and Coutinho is 5ft 6. Guily was a 5ft 4 and won a CL with Barca and of course Maradona is 5ft 4.
Good post, did you do it standing at your desk shorty?
I know there are exceptions to the rule but 5'5 is very short. And do you think lennon / pedro or Guily (who???) are good enough for a United squad??? Maradona was a once in a lifetime and don't see Gomes being at his / Messi level, as much as I'd like him to obviously.
They had to order a special desk for me, but yes i did!
Pedro and Guily are good enough for United's squad. They were both good enough for Barca's squad in Champions League winning eras. Both started in CL finals.
A hobbit could have done well with that Barca squad but pedro was not a
First xi starter by any means and they sold him happily in their prime. He'd done average at United. I've honestly not heard of Guily before until I googled him. Watch a lot of football.
Hurts me to say it but there is a huge limit for small players making it at a top level. Natural fact of life and I've faced it too
Which is why
In general its better to be big than small but with size, you lose agility and the low CoG that makes it hard to push people off the ball.
You only need big strong pacey players if you play on the counter attack. Real and Barca have many small technical players that trounce PL teams every time, it's about how the manager decides to use his players and not the physicality of individual leagues.
How many of those players had Gomes' level of technical ability? It's on another level. We're talking 1 inch needed for a kid that just turned 17 less than a month ago?
can't we pump him with the same growth juice Barca pumped messi with?
I don't think it's easy at all.
If you really rate the player then you need to get the timing and opposition right. Otherwise the player suffers, can't perform and so on.
If it was that easy why doesn't every manager in the top flight do it? There are only a few clubs who historically, traditionally and consistently elevate youngsters.
We have managed to do it so successfully over the last 80 years that 50% of all our first teamers have come through the ranks and allowed us to become the most successful club in Britain as a consequence.
You have to give them chances to see how they manage the step up.
Massive difference between City who have virtually no track record of giving their juniors a chance and United who have.
Given Angel was injured most of the second half of the season and missed most of this pre-season getting back to fitness I can't see him him knocking on anyone's door asking for a so called 'pathway'.
As with any player at United if you are good enough then you will get games. It's always been that way...
The sustainability of that statement is doubtful though. The more you throw in fresh faced inexperienced youngsters the less likely you are to win in the modern day EPL, which is packed with proven internationals. In the right environment it can be done, but I don't see Jose or Woodward being happy to sacrifice performance for youth at any cost, especially if it means missing out on trophies or CL. he's not going to displace Mkhitaryan etc without some creative manipulation from Mourinho.
United's priority first and foremost is to produce players for ourselves, and those who go on to pastures new do so having received a first class education. I give the credit of producing players to the youth coaches and academy staff, and it's the first team manager who has to take them on to develop and integrate them.
Granted most of the players aren't good enough to make it hence why they don't get extended chances. LvG gave I believe 14 debuts of which six have made at least ten first team games [Rashford, Lingard, TFM, CBJ, McNair and Blackett]. For that he deserves great credit but the lads who made one or two appearances is a tick for the club rather than the manager in my opinion. A debut can just be rewarding a kid whose been at the club since 8 the chance to fulfill his dream when you're 3-0 up with 10 minutes to go. It can be to put a player into the shop window.
That was my point regarding Rashford - he was fully integrated and became a starting player under LvG's stewardship so it's LvG who should be appreciated.
Eh there are plenty of small players that have excelled at the highest levels. Xavi, Iniesta, Lahm and Ribery are 5'7", Roberto Carlos 5'6". The kid has time to grow but, really it will come down to his skill and not size for a player like him to reach the top of the game.
Let's be honest, football isn't the same it was 20 years ago. It might have been an issue then but it isn't now, as long as he is tough that's all that matters.
There are variables with any height as it relates to strength.
For example, every individual, whether tall or short, has skeletal muscle genetics. A taller and bigger individual might not have equal or more force generating power than a shorter and smaller individual. We're playing with base genetics here, of course. On top of that, of course you have power that is built through training, but even then size is deceptive since not all significant increases in muscle mass amounts to significant increases in strength capacity, so it's fallacious to just say, "X player should bulk up".
Also, there are definite certain advantages to being short. I, myself am 5"7. I can hit the weights for a couple of months and gain some impressive size. Some of that is down to my muscle surface area being small in overall length and size, meaning gains will look more impressive quicker, but I might not get too much stronger. My main point is this. You can't always rule out someone's ability to avoid being bullied on the field because they're smaller. I've seen smaller players generate a lot of force precisely because they have a low centre of gravity, which in turn makes them less able to be bullied on a football field.
Size and proportions aren't some neat little box you can observe on a screen for a moment and then make a deduction.
For example, every individual, whether tall or short, has skeletal muscle genetics. A taller and bigger individual might not have equal or more force generating power than a shorter and smaller individual. We're playing with base genetics here, of course. On top of that, of course you have power that is built through training, but even then size is deceptive since not all significant increases in muscle mass amounts to significant increases in strength capacity, so it's fallacious to just say, "X player should bulk up".
Also, there are definite certain advantages to being short. I, myself am 5"7. I can hit the weights for a couple of months and gain some impressive size. Some of that is down to my muscle surface area being small in overall length and size, meaning gains will look more impressive quicker, but I might not get too much stronger. My main point is this. You can't always rule out someone's ability to avoid being bullied on the field because they're smaller. I've seen smaller players generate a lot of force precisely because they have a low centre of gravity, which in turn makes them less able to be bullied on a football field.
Size and proportions aren't some neat little box you can observe on a screen for a moment and then make a deduction.
It'll probably be something like this:
Code:
Bursik
Guehi Panzo
Eyoma Gibson
Oakley-Boothe
Gomes
Foden
Sancho
Hudson-Odoi
BrewsterA solid but largely unadventurous back four with a very dynamic and attacking six ahead of them, it will be a big surprise if this group don't go far in the competition.
I'd put Hudson-Odoi on the bench Gomes as the 10 and Kirby as the 8. Hudson-Odoi would be a great option from the bench late on. Similar to how Marcus Edwards was used in the 19s this summer.
I'd take Brewster out and put in another central midfielder for a 433. Leaubetter from Chelsea would do well in that midfield from what little I've seen of him. A Gomes O-B midfield is very frail defensively by itself and Brewter hasn't really impressed me.
edit: forgot about Kirby, this is a difficult one to decide...
Would have to go with (hoping a Kirby/H-O midfield will withstand top team attacks) the below because if it works it could be the best England youth team I can ever remember.
Bursik
Eyoma Guehi Panzo Gibson
O-B Kirby
Gomes
Foden Sancho
H-O
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Wonder if Foden was with United for a while.
Might've gone same school/played for the same Sunday league team or something like that.
Foden has been with City his whole footballing career so far IIRC with United and City having always sent players to different schools. Maybe Angel wanted to post something more warm and fuzzy instead of for England and against at club level since 5 years old (I thought he signed for us at 6). Or maybe they both played for Fletcher Moss or someone similar when they were both 5 before going their separate ways.
Came on as sub for England and was excellent. Scored this cracker.
Was Chile's goalkeeper sent off or something?
Yes. Gomes with a defence splitting pass, the keeper wiped Rhian Brewster after he put the ball round him. I doubt the proper keeper would have saved that free kick either.
They did have a reserve goalkeeper though right, that's not an outfield player?
Out of subs. It was late on.
Thanks. Yeah, it was a good freekick. I was just curious why there was an outfield player in goal.
So Gomes the captain is on the bench then? Didn't expect that, I thought he would be one of the few guaranteed starters.
Coming back from a slight injury.
They gave him the armband when he came on. He has the 10 shirt. Pretty sure he will start the next game.
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