Fergie has said that United offered Pogba more money than Juventus did. According to Fergie he only left because "his agent is a shitbag".
Angel Gomes
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Agreed and we're basing it solely on what happened with Pogba, whilst forgetting that he could be the next Morrison, Macheda or Januzaj either.
He's clearly not Morrison, 5 minutes l;istening to an interview or reading his twitter shows us that. I think (and hope) its just agent/contractual brinkmanship to get more money.
He's an exceptional talent so hopefully we get the contract sorted out soon. It would be good if we could give him some time in the cups and what not this season as well.
While we did eventually, we didn't meet their demands to begin with. That's why they then started negotiating with others. Only once we agreed to match them did we start making progress, but the lack of opportunities given to him ultimately made him leave, it's all fairly well documented.
I'm well aware that he left because of a lack of playing time... just saying we did offer enough money, as the guy I replied to didn't know that.
I'm not just talking about off field antics, SAF said Morrison was the most gifted player to come through the academy and he hasn't showed any glimpse of that on the pitch in his senior career. There is a huge step up from bossing the under ages to succeeding at senior level.
Yeah so he can feck off.
From what I've heard his contract was all agreed towards the end of last season but he hasn't signed it yet because he want's assurances of his pathway towards the first team rather than it being about money. Apparently he and his advisors are pissed off that he's barely even trained with the u23s never mind the seniors.
While I agree that he should be more involved with The U23s, surely Butt can explain to him that he has just turned 17 and they want to keep The U18s together to perform well across 3 competitions then move up to U23 level together.
This is the problem with handing out debuts too soon. They get a taste of it and expect more. Maybe the debut was pencilled in during contract negotiations to help smooth things over and it was expected that it'd be a done deal as a result of it.
A few thoughts...
1. He has been offered a professional contract which he was able to sign when he turned 17. He hasn't signed it as yet and only him/his agent know why there is any delay. Everyone else is just speculating.
2. He has had a couple of injuries this year which has meant he has had limited game time...starting in the 18's allows him to recover his strength and get match fit. I can't see any value in pushing him into the reserves or first team until he has recovered fully.
3. He is a really good player and shown he has real quality. However he has no track record of producing anything special consistently against older, more physical/experienced players. Like most kids he needs to work hard (which he does) and the rewards will come.
4. The coaching staff are the best placed people to identify when he is ready to be pushed on.
5. I don't see any comparison between the Paul Pogba situation and Angel Gomes. Pogba had a whole season in reserves after two years in 18's...and was physically more mature. Pogba's agent wanted guarantees that Ferguson refused. None of that context exists with Gomes.
6. Anyone asking for 'guarantees' of 'future pathways' is focused on the wrong thing. Regardless of what position you play or prefer...and regardless of how many players are ahead of you in the ranks...it is up to each player to prove he is better than everyone else. You have to take each chance when it comes your way. There are no guarantees. Look at Rashford...he was behind Rooney, Martial, Keane, Wilson...but injuries, loans, timing etc allowed Marcus an opportunity which he took. Marcus wasn't promised any 'pathway'...just work hard and you will get a chance if you are good enough.
7. United have the best track record in giving kids an opportunity in Europe...very, very few 17 year olds leave Old Trafford and find better careers...I reckon Angel knows this so will probably ignore all the speculation.
8. My guess is that he will start to appear regularly in the reserves at some point and towards the end of the season may be involved in some first team action. He will sign his contract when he is ready.
1. He has been offered a professional contract which he was able to sign when he turned 17. He hasn't signed it as yet and only him/his agent know why there is any delay. Everyone else is just speculating.
2. He has had a couple of injuries this year which has meant he has had limited game time...starting in the 18's allows him to recover his strength and get match fit. I can't see any value in pushing him into the reserves or first team until he has recovered fully.
3. He is a really good player and shown he has real quality. However he has no track record of producing anything special consistently against older, more physical/experienced players. Like most kids he needs to work hard (which he does) and the rewards will come.
4. The coaching staff are the best placed people to identify when he is ready to be pushed on.
5. I don't see any comparison between the Paul Pogba situation and Angel Gomes. Pogba had a whole season in reserves after two years in 18's...and was physically more mature. Pogba's agent wanted guarantees that Ferguson refused. None of that context exists with Gomes.
6. Anyone asking for 'guarantees' of 'future pathways' is focused on the wrong thing. Regardless of what position you play or prefer...and regardless of how many players are ahead of you in the ranks...it is up to each player to prove he is better than everyone else. You have to take each chance when it comes your way. There are no guarantees. Look at Rashford...he was behind Rooney, Martial, Keane, Wilson...but injuries, loans, timing etc allowed Marcus an opportunity which he took. Marcus wasn't promised any 'pathway'...just work hard and you will get a chance if you are good enough.
7. United have the best track record in giving kids an opportunity in Europe...very, very few 17 year olds leave Old Trafford and find better careers...I reckon Angel knows this so will probably ignore all the speculation.
8. My guess is that he will start to appear regularly in the reserves at some point and towards the end of the season may be involved in some first team action. He will sign his contract when he is ready.
He showed it a few times at West Ham. Morrison was on another level to any youth product I've seen, but Gomes has still performed brilliantly at every level.
Glimpses of potential perhaps but not that he was as gifted as SAF alluded to.
Even with Morrison taken out, the point still is relevant to those who make the breakthrough to the first team but don't capitalise. Januzaj was similarly blessed, impressed when he got his chance under Moyes and then either peaked as a player or let the success get to his head.
There is no guarantee of success and it might be interesting to know Gomes' motivations if he does leave. If he's concerned about a lack of playing time (which really shouldn't be an issue for someone who has just turned 17) then its one thing. If its about money, its ridiculous, he is at a club where he can earn more money than he ever needs in an environment with a proven track record of bringing through top talent.
It's a bit harsh expecting him to become a world beater straight away. He was never going to be a world beater though, he didn't have the character to be a professional footballer.
Januzaj's attitude problems were well known. He started off a hard working and very talented lad but after the money came in he lost motivation. The same could happen to Gomes but given what jb said above, the issue seems to be about his pathway to the first team.
It's hard to blame players like Sancho for moving to clubs like Dortmund at 17/18. No matter how generous United are at providing players with chances, the environment at Dortmund (a slightly lower level with less competition) is always going to be more suited for younger players looking to break through. The question they have to ask themself is "How worried am I there won't be a way back to United and how mucgh do I want to be here anyway?". When you leave United its very unlikely you'll be able to come back.
Also could take Lingard's job, assuming Lingard ends up with a Jonny Evans/Nicky Butt/Phil Neville sort of career where he leaves for a decent fee for a mid-table side to be first choice every week.
And Mata won't be around forever, though you wouldn't expect right-wing to be Gomez' best spot, he could maybe play inside enough that it doesn't kill us, with Martial or Rashford high and wide on the left looking to score, like how Madrid play with Isco tucked in on the right helping the midfield 3 and then Cristiano high up on the left focused on scoring.
---------Lukaku-----------
Martial--Gomez--Rashford
-----Pogba---Matic-------
seems like it could really be something in 2-3 years if Gomez is the real deal, with everyone in their prime save maybe a slightly aging Matic, though DMs often still have some of their strongest seasons as late as 31-32 (Carrick was that age for his loan PFA nom, for example).
Hahahahaha
Hope he'll inherit the no. 10 after Rooney
Zlatan's got 10
I meant in the future, when he'll hopefully be a first team player
So what I said wasn't correct. Anyway, I hope he'll be a great player and another famous one to wear the no. 10
I have high hopes he will definitely sign the contract in coming months.
Agree on the part about giving cheap debut. That's the similar thing I talk about not giving game time at senior level loosely, be it League Cup or FA Cup. Majority of young players may have potential surpass the B team, but they still lack the professionalism to keep their head down and maintain their development. Give them an inch, they go a mile, unfortunately in the wrong direction. No freebie. They need to earn it. If they do they need to become the first team member the hard way. Continue to compete for gametime just like other member of the squad.
Hope this work out for the best though. He is quite special for his age group.
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I'm not sure you can judge anything from his twitter...I just had a look and he's possibly the only person on the planet more obsessed with football than Herrera is.
Think he has had his head turned by his close friend Sancho going to Dortmund with the idea of a clearer path to first team football personally. Wouldn't be surprised if Dortmund are in for him.
totally totally different player than pogba. like comparing michael owen and john terry when 16
If he is smart he probably should leave. Realistically almost nobody makes it here, rashford and lingard have managed in lately but only because we had one of the only managers that gives debutants important roles in the first team. Now we have a manager whose claim to fame is giving morata 10 mins every now and then
No white text?
Mourinho could be gone in 2 years. He is still has to make the step up to the reserves. If he is too good for that level in a year, he can get a good loan and then move to the first team. I dont see the issue.
Is there anything to suggest any of that? Or is it 2+2=5
It is 2+2=5 admittedly. Although @jb8521 , someone who watches the youth side and someone Gomes re tweets at times said that he heard it was to do with first team pathways.
I saw on his twitter he retweeted a quote from Dortmund's director Michael Zorc saying about Sancho "We are not talking about a developing talent. We will give players like him immediate game-time at a high level".
Now obviously Gomes and Sancho are friends so he could just be showing support for his mate. On the other hand he could be meaning he wants it too.
Now obviously Gomes and Sancho are friends so he could just be showing support for his mate. On the other hand he could be meaning he wants it too.
I guess you are right there is time, but also true that the reserve system in england is fairly poor. But agree that chances of him getting first team action at a decent team in the next year is probably not high
He's already played first team with us though. I know it was a dead rubber but he was called up before several of the under 23's regulars at the time and other members of last years 18's that are u23's regulars now, so i cant believe he's botherd by that,he's clearly rated much higher than them within the club.
I thought it was more to do with focusing on him playing in the youth champions league and giving his best in it. This will be an invaluable experience and the best comptition for his development right now so why risk him missing games in it because he's been kicked to bits by a 23 year old jelous donkey who cant cope with him.
If he really is having doubts about his pathway then god knows what he's expecting,he played for manchester uniteds first team at 16 year old!!
I thought it was more to do with focusing on him playing in the youth champions league and giving his best in it. This will be an invaluable experience and the best comptition for his development right now so why risk him missing games in it because he's been kicked to bits by a 23 year old jelous donkey who cant cope with him.
If he really is having doubts about his pathway then god knows what he's expecting,he played for manchester uniteds first team at 16 year old!!
Except there are barely any of them in the league. The majority of teams are made up of 17-19 year olds. Sure some games will get rough but so is senior football and so is u18s at times too. There are dirty feckers at all levels and if he isn't used to it now then he'll need to get used to it.
But he'll be looking at those he played with last year like Bohui, Buffonge, and Boonen, who were so successful together and wondering why he isn't still with them. Bohui and Boonen are also in the u19s squad so shouldn't he continue playing with his attacking partners? Hard to blame him if he is not happy with being held back. Also hard to blame him if he isn't happy with his season being based around one competition which is only guaranteed 6 matches, 1 of which he'll miss at the world cup.
The under 23s league is full of donkeys who arnt goin to make it at there current teams and theres plenty of players 20 and older.
Bohui,buffonge and boonen are too old for 18's so thats irrelevant,he wouldnt be playing with them anyways as 2 of them are sat on the bench all the time as it is and thats without gomes being there and gribben out injured,if gomes was a year older he would be up there with them,which he will be before long anyway. Do you think the club is stupid enough not to relise what a special talent he is? Im pretty sure that whatever there plan is with him its to best aid his development and not to hold him back.
He got picked for the first team at 16 year old ahead of any of the players you mentioned thats a clear sign of where he stands in the pecking order
Looking from the outside, it seems to me the club has done nothing wrong in this situation. He's got a contract in front of him and we've done everything right by him. If he doesn't sign it it'd have been his decision, nothing we can do about it.
Yeah pretty much. He's still very young so he was never going to be involved in the first team at this point. The issue is that he's probably seen the likes of Willock and Sancho move to good teams abroad where they have a clear plan for their promotion to the first team. Here we are spending big money on the best players, so you can understand why he will consider his options.
First line is just a load of shit. Every young player who makes it at a club play in the u23s at some point. It isn't full of donkeys at all, it is full of the best teenagers in the country who haven't made first teams yet which is most teenagers. There are a couple older players in some teams but they aren't donkeys and some times even first team players which is great experience for young players. Its a better level than u18s and u18s is even worse since we don't even play the London teams which is half the top teams.
Chelsea's average age against us was 18 with a 16 year old and 3 17 year olds and oldest being 19.
Arsenal's average was 18.82, also with a top 17 year old player.
Spurs average age 18.21, captained by a 17 year old, had a 16 year old, and Marcus Edwards one of the country's top talents at 18. Oldest is 20.
It isn't irrelevant because two are in the u19s side and if the idea is to focus on that and to keep the group together then Angel should be playing with them. Many of the u18s side from last season is in the u23s now which if they are keeping them together then Angel should also be in the u23s and will obviously be his thinking. Bohui and Boonen been pretty much regulars so far and Buffonge will start to get played more too. Angel will be thinking he should be played above his age group though just like all top talents at other clubs. It doesn't matter where he stands in the pecking order if he doesn't feel like he is playing at a level which will aid his development which an u18s level he has already conquered really is. It might not really be a big deal but it is easy to see where Angel is coming from. Top talents his age are playing u23s right now. He is falling behind, will he then fall behind in his progression to first team football? These are what Angel is thinking and they are reasonable thoughts. And that is really only comparing it to other talents at English clubs which are even worse to breakthrough at than foreign clubs. If he has doubts then it is very reasonable.
Your first line is a bigger load of shit than mine. I never said every player was a donkey and 20 or older i said theres plenty/ its full of them and giving me average age stats for 3 teams dosnt change that. How many of our 23s do you see making it here? How many of chelseas or liverpools or any premier league teams 23's have made it with them? For every one that does theres hundreds that don't and plenty fall out of proffesional football altogether,fair enough theyr not donkeys compared to you or me but reletive to making it at a premier league team they are.
How many premier league games has marcus edwards played for spurs?None...I suppose he's packin his case for dortmund as we speak,furious that a lad a year younger than him has played one for a much bigger club.
How do you know what angels thinking or where angel is coming from? If you know the lad and that is what he's thinking,have a word with him. Tell him we'r only 6 week into the season,he's already played first team for one of the biggest clubs in the world and his career isnt doomed because he hasnt played in the shite u23's league yet. If you dont know him stop passing your thoughts off as his, based off a load of speculation just because he hasnt signed his contract yet.
I thought he'd of played more for the 23's myself but the staff obviously have differant plan. None of us on here bar maybe one or two know what theyr thinking,but i highly doubt its aimed at holding him back.
How many premier league games has marcus edwards played for spurs?None...I suppose he's packin his case for dortmund as we speak,furious that a lad a year younger than him has played one for a much bigger club.
How do you know what angels thinking or where angel is coming from? If you know the lad and that is what he's thinking,have a word with him. Tell him we'r only 6 week into the season,he's already played first team for one of the biggest clubs in the world and his career isnt doomed because he hasnt played in the shite u23's league yet. If you dont know him stop passing your thoughts off as his, based off a load of speculation just because he hasnt signed his contract yet.
I thought he'd of played more for the 23's myself but the staff obviously have differant plan. None of us on here bar maybe one or two know what theyr thinking,but i highly doubt its aimed at holding him back.
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