Why the surprise?
Angel Gomes Watch
- Thread starter Classical Mechanic
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Just seen the sky sports article liken him to FDJ ... they're surely just loving an opportunity to wind up United fans yeah?! Clearly the Southgate rumours aren't enough, now they're telling us we had our own FDJ and he left on a free!
Get him back? Finally, ETH can have his FDJ lite? He is our academy product and is a Man Utd supporter. At the right age and won't costs a lot in term of fees and wages.
https://www.skysports.com/football/...ielder-that-manchester-united-let-go-to-lille
https://www.skysports.com/football/...ielder-that-manchester-united-let-go-to-lille
Get him back. One of Ole’s biggest mistake was never giving him a proper chance
In style, he is rather surprisingly. Frenkie was also a 10/AM in the academy ranks, so was Mainoo by the way.
Frenkie has a far better physicue than Gomes, but Gomes probably an even better dribbler, more nimble and maybe more creative.
Yeah just seen that. I wonder if we inserted a buy back clause?
Sky just have to have a dig at United.
How long ago was it he left United?
God I hate Sky.
But many players start further up the field and then get shunted back over time, it’s not like FdJ is a rare case.
The article seems to suggest from the quotes he can play the FdJ role now which seems unlikely, in that’s he generally played CM or even more AM with a few apps a bit deeper for Lille. For me, it’s an all too obvious bit of bait to dangle in front of a wound up United fan base - hence the headline being about United letting him go, not simply about him doing ok in France.
Im sure he can against Ireland or Finland in a deeper role (no disrespect to those teams) but I don’t think he can in the PL or against the top international teams.
He left for a free, so no clauses.
Almost 7/10 of our outfield players in our best XI are below 6ft(Mazraoui, MDL, Hojlund and Rashford are the only ones above), so I wouldnt have him. If we had Amadou Onana next to him in midfield sure, but that's not the case.
Very good #8 though, always liked him, and exactly the profile we need.
He can play in a deep role against anyone. As long as he's alongside a proper holding midfielder, then it's all good.
What gives you that impression, given he’s not really played there much?
In my view, it's his best position. Deep lying playmaker. Like a Thiago/Jorginho etc. He's a good passer/creator but playing deeper removes any added burden on him as a goalscorer, which isn't really his strength. You just need to make sure he's alongside someone who is strong physically and defensively.
Not been causing us a problem.
That's debatable. I think aerially and physically we do get dominated more than I would like.
Those players you mentioned are/were vastly better than him though? I like Gomes and was hoping he would stay but he’s not played that deeper role for any prolonged period of time, he’s spent his senior career further forward and done ‘ok’ (I think it’s fair to say he’s not exactly smashed it in ligue 1). Maybe he will be able to do it but he’s 24 and no coach has seemingly put him in that role, even under Carsley in the u21 euros he was much more advanced if you look at his heat maps.
That's what I thought but the SS article linked above said he had the most assists in Ligue 1 last season, which is pretty damn impressive from any player who isn't at PSG.
He regularly plays in a deeper midfield role for Lille.
He had the most assists in the league while often playing deeper so not fair to say ‘ok’ at all.
He also sat beside the CBs for half the u21s Euros and was clearly tasked with being the deepest in possession. If you actually watched the matches.
He left us 4 years ago, didn't he?
Pretty low bar for the assist table last season. ESPN has him joint second with Dembele and a Brest player I've never heard of on 8.
Think he’s joint second with two others (to Dembele at PSG) but that’s a weird stat. The top assists was 9, he had 8, that seems so low?
Weirdly this is different to transfermarkt though they agree on Gomes with 8Pretty low bar for the assist table last season. ESPN has him joint second with Dembele and a Brest player I've never heard of on 8.
Total assists always seems lower than you'd think. Intuitively you'd think that the top assister should be getting similar numbers to top goalscorer but it's always way lower.
Yeah, I looked at a few sources and they all had slightly different answers
It is but Bruno got 8 for us last season and that only got him joint 20th.
I watched the final and he did drop in but I thought he also got moved that game. You can see his heat maps from those earlier games and you’re maybe remembering things a little off. First game against the Czechs, maybe, you can make the argument for but still the bulk of his time on the ball was more advanced. The rest he’s a CM or AM. I didn’t watch them though and I guess the maps might be wrong so if you believe he was a lot deeper than they show, I have no reason to disbelieve you.
Woah! That's mad. Shows how many goals were scored last season (by clubs who aren't Manchester United)
Made me go and look and I hadn’t realised how many more goals there were in the PL. Last season Ligue 1 average 2.82, PL was 3.28Yeah, I looked at a few sources and they all had slightly different answers
Still seems so odd you, La Liga there were less goals than Ligue 1 last year and yet there’s 5 people into double figures for assists. Serie A there were less goals as well and there are 3 into double figures. Maybe it was just Mbappe solo dribbling everyone throwing the stats off.
Wasn't last season a huge outlier and the first time the number was above 3.00?
some old numbers for the PL:
2000-01: 992 goals in 380 matches at 2.61 goals per game
2001-02: 1001 goals in 380 matches at 2.63 goals per game
2002-03: 1000 goals in 380 matches at 2.63 goals per game
2003-04: 1012 goals in 380 matches at 2.66 goals per game
2004-05: 975 goals in 380 matches at 2.56 goals per game
2005-06: 944 goals in 380 matches at 2.48 goals per game
2006-07: 931 goals in 380 matches at 2.45 goals per game
2007-08: 1002 goals in 380 matches at 2.63 goals per game
2008-09: 942 goals in 380 matches at 2.47 goals per game
2009-10: 1053 goals in 380 matches at 2.77 goals per game
2010-11: 1063 goals in 380 matches at 2.79 goals per game
2011-12: 1066 goals in 380 matches at 2.80 goals per game
2012-13: 1063 goals in 380 matches at 2.79 goals per game
2013-14: 1052 goals in 380 matches at 2.76 goals per game
2014-15: 975 goals in 380 matches at 2.56 goals per game
2015-16: 1026 goals in 380 matches at 2.70 goals per game
2016-17: 1064 goals in 380 matches at 2.80 goals per game
2017-18: 1018 goals in 380 matches at 2.67 goals per game
2018-19: 1072 goals in 380 matches at 2.82 goals per game
2019-20: 1034 goals in 380 matches at 2.72 goals per game
2020-21: 1024 goals in 380 matches at 2.69 goals per game
You didn’t even watch the matches but im the one misremembering
Perhaps you’re just a little bit wrong and don’t actually know what you’re talking about as you readily admit you didn’t even watch the matches.
How does a heat map tell you what position someone played anyway with no context of the match which you don’t have as you didn’t even watch them.
England were dominant enough to play high up with the CBs in the opposition half for some of the matches. I guess they actually played in midfield?
He played as the deepest midfielder in every match, the same role with the same midfield partner in every match.
Not so sure they were/are better. Thiago maybe, but I don't consider Jorginho to be especially better. Gomes is not an Attacking midfielder. I mean, he can play that role sure, but he's much better deeper. In my opinion it was the same story when he was here in our academy. I remember one game in particular against Juventus where he played deep and absolutely smashed it. Though, I digress.
There isn't a chance I'd have allowed him to leave us. I would have prioritised him much like we do with all our top talents. I've long wanted him to return and he'd be a perfect rotation option for Mainoo as he shares many of the same attributes.
Not sure why you’re being rude, I said I have no reason to disbelieve you but what you said seems add odds with his heat map, that’s all. Were you specifically watching games from years ago and focusing on one player or something? It’s possible Jones was actually deeper on average, for example, which is what the heat maps say.You didn’t even watch the matches but im the one misremembering
Perhaps you’re just a little bit wrong and don’t actually know what you’re talking about as you readily admit you didn’t even watch the matches.
How does a heat map tell you what position someone played anyway with no context of the match which you don’t have as you didn’t even watch them.
England were dominant enough to play high up with the CBs in the opposition half for some of the matches. I guess they actually played in midfield?
He played as the deepest midfielder in every match, the same role with the same midfield partner in every match.
Regardless, as I said if you are adamant he was used in that way, we will see if he can do in senior football and maybe the PL as it looks like he’s off next year from Lille.
I can’t be having that Gomes is on the same level as Jorginho, the latter was class. Only issue he had was he was a bit slow and wasn’t really much of a dribbler.
Then do you think Mainoo should play the FdJ role? I don’t think he can.
Most probably ETH doesn't rate him. Otherwise he will be back here. ETH is obsessed with FDJ. He will not miss the chance to sign Gomes if he is similar to FDJ
I guess we will see just how good he is if he gets a bit more exposure to the English audience.
I think Mainoo can play the De Jong role. Mainoo isn't as progressive as De Jong, but I think he has the potential to be. However, with Ugarte having signed, Mainoo's role changes slightly. It won't happen this season, but I think with Ugarte doing his best Kante impression, we will need a proper DM to sit and be positionally disciplined in order for Ugarte to do what he does best. Hunt. That player isn't Mainoo - he'd be wasted in such a restrictive role. Which means you play with a number 6 and two 8's. Ugarte as the "defensive" 8 who is aggressive in his press and Mainoo as the more technical forward thinking 8.
I could see us going for him on a free in the summer.
I agree re that setup and it’s where I want to see Mainoo. As a CM, not a 10, but not as deep as De Jong. Ugarte, Mount, Mainoo is what I think is the most balanced midfield on paper we have right now.
Yes, either Ugarte, Mainoo, Mount or Ugarte, Casemiro, Mainoo. Most likely the former. Though hopefully we sign a proper dedicated holding midfielder next summer in addition to Angel Gomes or someone like minded. Then hopefully Kone can step up and get a few minutes here and there as a deputy for Ugarte.
Absolute no brainer move IMO.
I didn't realize his contract was running out, and now I really really want this signing to happen. Perfect opportunity for us to tap into the free transfer agent again after Eriksen. But I wouldn't mind us paying a reasonable for to Lille as well, if he extends with them with a gentleman's agreement that he can leave for a decent fee. Relations between the two clubs must be great as well after the Yoro deal.
I genuinely don't see any negatives here. United academy product, free transfer on reasonable wages, and he has developed into a very solid number 8 who can be deployed in deeper areas as well, whereas in his earlier years I think he was more of a #10. A couple of seasons' experience in an actually physical league like Ligue 1 has been great for his development. I was disappointed when he left United but it was obviously a very smart decision for his career at the time. Right now I'd see him in a rotational left-sided #8 role, and potentially even as a #10 too. He might not be a world beater but he's definitely worthy to come into a top 6 PL side and fight for his place.
The problem is I don't think he wants to come back as squad player.
Here he is