I don't think he demanded to be a starter.
He justifiably asked to get chances while Ole kept trusting Pereira and James, two players that consistently offered nothing.
Angel Gomes Watch
- Thread starter Classical Mechanic
- Start date
I don't think he demanded to be a starter.
He justifiably asked to get chances while Ole kept trusting Pereira and James, two players that consistently offered nothing.
Those two are better than Angel
1. That's debatable (due to age difference mostly, we'll see in 3-4 years)
2. In any case, they're both shit, they were shit when they played for us, and they had no business starting 10+ games a season offering absolutely nothing, while our young talents were frozen in the stands.
He immediately went on loan as soon as he left us.
The guys not good enough for United level, never had been and I doubt ever will be.
Nice alternative to De Jong
Never seem to get injured anymore since leaving United. Did the faith healing work?
He's a similar type of player to Zidane Iqbal, who we've also just tossed. I'm now convinced the club simply doesn't value these types of players.
Other than last summer's De Jong chase.
He was a million times better than Iqbal and he left of his own accord, the club offered him a new deal.
My memory is getting worse every year but the only James i can remember playing for us is Dan James. Are you arguing that Dan James is a better player than Angel Gomes?
I agree. Just don't understand the obsession
He's doing an average job in the 5th best team in France, playing second fiddle in midfield to a 32 year old Benjamin André. If that doesn't scream Manchester United quality, I don't know what does.
Having never been loaned out by us either. It's hardly like he was spending season after season moving to different clubs on loan from us.
The larger point overall is that we don't seem to be that great at maximizing the talents we have in our academy lately, that includes ensuring they get enough loans to sell them on for a decent fee. Some one playing for the 5th best team in France should have netted us around 15-20m euros.
Debatable, Pereira is a lot older so we'll see how Gomes develops.
James is playing in the championship so he's probably not better.
He was shipped out on loan when he left us, he wasn't at the quality then as he is now.
Are we meant to keep him for three or four years constantly on loan just in the hope we can sell for £10m or so later down the line?
Yes because he had very little first-team football experience (because of the way we developed him)
He should have at least had 2 seasons on loan by the time he left us
Why? To what good would that have done? Two seasons on loan at lower level teams and all of a sudden someone will pay £15m?
We got 15m for Garner, if you don't understand the difference between u23 football and first team football then that's ok
Lille have only ever signed 5 players over €15 million to think they would have spent that on a player of Angel Gomes calibre is extremely generous
Who said he had to sign for Lille? The point I was making was that if he had got first team experience on loan (like other clubs do with their players) he would have been more valuable.
Also had we identified he was not good enough earlier we should have sold him.
Gomes isn't the only one, we do this with all of our academy prospects, holding them back from loans so they can train with the first team, then proceed to not play them and stall their development
James had shown more than Gomes had though. His performances v City alone puts him a level above Angel
James got matches because we signed him for 20m, James couldn't get off the bench at Fulham and is heading back to the Championship, Angel is playing at a much higher level
But surely that proves the point, when you look at €15+ transfers even if with a successful loan that price would be very generous, Andreas Perreria went for £10 million by all accounts and had a lot of PL experience.
There is an argument to be made for players being stalled in development but that is another story, we are discussing A player who left at 18 due to lack of chances but at the same time very few players get a loan or a first team chance at such a young age and get regular football either on loan or first team
Go and look at how much other clubs sell players of the same experience and age, the point is United are rubbish at selling players at all levels.
It was actually the opposite. He wanted to go out on loan in both of his last two seasons with us. In the first Ole kept him here in case we needed him in the squad (then never played him), and in the second we refused presumably as he hadn't signed a new contract so we didn't see the point of loaning him out only to see him leave afterwards. But it was probably a chicken or egg situation, with him refusing to sign a contract as he wasn't being given a chance to actually play so he felt he had to leave for the sake of his career. Certainly can't blame him for that. In those two seasons he basically played a handful of games in the first team and about a third of the youth team games.
Are we talking about Gomes or are we talking about United selling players, which one?
Gomes even after his loan to Boavista we'd be lucky to get a decent fee like you quoted and he didn't want to stay at United anyway
Given he was a United player...
After his Boavista loan would he be deemed a €15 million player?
Read all my posts in here you will have your answer
Yeah, that doesn't answer the question other than some vague point that if he went on loan he'd be worth more to United somehow when there is no guarantee if he went on loan he'd be all that good as proved by his actual loan to Boavista when he was 2 years older than he was at United and after that loan he'd somehow be worth a lot of money.
Also you compared him to Garner who didn't go on loan until he was 19 coincidentally the same age as Gomes was when he left United, Gomes before he was 19 already decided he was leaving.
You clearly do not understand player development.
If you followed his development, you would know about 3 years before he left United (3 years maybe generous) he was already too good for u23 football and every year since then his development was being stalled by not playing at a higher level.
He stagnated at United.
When Lille signed him they realised he didn't have enough first team experienced and loaned him out, they are benefiting from that now.
Garner is a better player than Gomes, he was and still is miles ahead.
He actually is not ahead at the moment, that's why he has less caps for England U21 than Gomes and played less minutes last season
He played the 3rd most minutes out of all of their outfield players last season. Most of them as an AM or CM while André played deeper. Not sure how that makes him playing second fiddle to him.
I haven’t seen him recently and I’m sure he’s improved since he was here. Is anyone watching him and thinking “this guy is good enough to play for Manchester United”?
I agree with your general point about United not capitalising (financially) on their academy products, but Gomes is a terrible example.
He's still only 22 now, and left while he was still 19.
He was very fortunate to have been given the bit part role in the senior set up he'd had in the seasons prior to his departure, but his biggest obstacle was his physicality. He's a very short, slight player, which is precisely why he was only given the limited senior appearances he was at such a young age.
He wasn't too good for U23s football at any point prior to his departure, let alone while he was still 16 or 17, as you've claimed.
When he left, he'd basically just reached the stage where we'd be looking to loan him out. I don't know what happened, but he obviously decided he'd rather move elsewhere.
But by your rationale Garner should be ahead because went on loan twice right??
He's a much better player, playing in a better league albeit in a team run by morons.
Scored 3 goals and 6 assists as the primary AM doesn't read that well, it's OK to say he wouldn't have ever been good enough to play for United and say that even with loans his fee wouldn't have ever got that high so him leaving was nothing to write about