Ange Postecoglou | New Spurs boss on 4 year contract

Maluco said:
He knows they aren’t good, might as well buy himself a bit of time with some fighting talk.
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They bought a bunch of future prospects as well rather than improving the current team. This falls on both Big Ange and Levy, what did they end up last season? 6th?

With the kids they brought in plus Solanke does anyone see them finishing higher than that this campaign? I dont.

On the winning a trophy thing in the cups, anything is possible. Im curious how much rope he gets at Spurs though before the fans turn on him. It's all well and good to play swashbuckling attacking football, and that will buy you a bit of leeway with the fans. Fans are much quicker to turn on tumescent defensive style football when the results slip, but he needs to right the ship and fast.
 
With Odegaard out injured and Rice suspended that was ideal opportunity and no real excuses for Spurs to at least avoid defeat in the North London derby yet they lost and didn't score. Not a good day mate indeed!
 
Ange is good. I like him. He is straight with the media, handles player issues also well. He dealt with the Bissouma issue really professionally. His football is also entertaining. But of course when facing tactically well drilled team or low blocks he finds it difficult.

Actually if you see any team that has possession based play finds it a bit difficult to break low blocks unless of course you are Man city. Then you can cheat your way and have a super duper teams.

Hope Ange will turn it around. He is a breath of fresh air.
 
Maluco said:
It’s entertaining but it’s not practical at this level. Even bottom half teams have players who will punish you if you are naive and they can’t string wins together because they are too easy to play against with no plan B.

It was easy for Arsenal today and it’s a derby. Brentford will feel like they can take the game to them next week and get something because they will always give up chances.
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Bit similar to us then. Certain managers only have 1 way of playing and are too stubborn to change their approach. They think because they’ve been successful at other teams in other leagues it will work over here. But in other cases it does. Guardiola uses his style everywhere and he’s implemented it at city perfectly.
 
FortunaUtd said:
Bold opinion. Who has proposed sacking him? :lol:
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No one, but people are predicting that he will end up getting sacked relatively soon. Also, I've seen some Ange out tweets already from Spurs fans tbh :lol:

Alex99 said:
You might not have said this yourself, but very early on last season the general line about Ten Hag was "he's had a year already!".

They've lost 7 of their last 11 league games.

They've only won 9 of their last 24.

How long exactly is he supposed to get to show that it can get better?
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Well, we're just 4 league games in, and for Spurs, the last two weren't exactly must win games. Newcastle away is a really tough place to go to, and Arsenal are just vastly superior to them currently. I'd say their performance was actually acceptable yesterday but Arsenal edged it. Of course losing both of those games isn't ideal, but it's not like the expectation was 6 or even 4 points from them IMO. Also, they were brilliant in the first half vs Leicester and that game should've been over by half time, and obviously they were great vs Everton too. They just need to find some consistency, because they can be really good and dominant for large parts of any game, and then mess it up for themselves. However, 4 games is a really small sample size so there isn't much to take away from their season so far. But the expectation internally is probably just have more of those good performances than last season and be in or close to the top 4 again by the end of the season.
 
DJ_21 said:
Bit similar to us then. Certain managers only have 1 way of playing and are too stubborn to change their approach.
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I mean, that's just not true, at all - EtH has set up the team very differently on many occasions over the years depending on the opponent. We've had probably 2 or 3 playing styles in his time here (first season and second season very different, this season seems closer to an enhanced first season revamp). And importantly, it's very different to what he was doing at Ajax. He's dogmatic on certain things but playing style isn't one of them.
 
Alex99 said:
You might not have said this yourself, but very early on last season the general line about Ten Hag was "he's had a year already!".

They've lost 7 of their last 11 league games.

They've only won 9 of their last 24.

How long exactly is he supposed to get to show that it can get better?
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Yes but people are right to expect more from united than spurs
 
Rojofiam said:
No one, but people are predicting that he will end up getting sacked relatively soon. Also, I've seen some Ange out tweets already from Spurs fans tbh :lol:
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If you remove his first 10 games last season his PPG since would be good enough for 9th, and the form has been getting worse not better, 3 wins in the last 11 now I think, and that too against the real dregs.

Sack talk is premature, but it really does feel like he's been worked out in this league and will have to adjust, and if he can't do it he'll be gone by Christmas.

He also comes across as very stubborn and idealistic, so I'm not at all sure it would be wrong for people to come to the conclusion he can't/won't be able to adjust.
 
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Rooney in Paris said:
I mean, that's just not true, at all - EtH has set up the team very differently on many occasions over the years depending on the opponent. We've had probably 2 or 3 playing styles in his time here (first season and second season very different, this season seems closer to an enhanced first season revamp). And importantly, it's very different to what he was doing at Ajax. He's dogmatic on certain things but playing style isn't one of them.
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So every game last season where we played exactly the same despite getting hammered every single week isn’t keeping the same tactics/formation? When I said sticking to the same that can be within a season, not different years when it’s to late. The minute it wasn’t working last year and we was getting dominated every week, something should have changed instantly but it didn’t. The only opponent we changed our style for last season was city/liverpool. Where we played a bit more compact
 
Matt851 said:
Yes but people are right to expect more from united than spurs
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The point isn't really United vs Spurs.

The point is that Ange was held up for much of last season as someone who'd come in and made an instant impact and transformed Spurs.

He obviously hasn't managed that, as we've now got people saying he needs more time, despite having had a whole season. If a season is enough for the manager of Manchester United manager to show signs of improvement, why not the manager of Spurs?

This isn't even about him elevating Spurs. This is about the fact that they've lost more league games than they've won in their last 32 fixtures (14 vs 13), and have lost 7 of their last 11.


Rojofiam said:
Well, we're just 4 league games in, and for Spurs, the last two weren't exactly must win games. Newcastle away is a really tough place to go to, and Arsenal are just vastly superior to them currently. I'd say their performance was actually acceptable yesterday but Arsenal edged it. Of course losing both of those games isn't ideal, but it's not like the expectation was 6 or even 4 points from them IMO. Also, they were brilliant in the first half vs Leicester and that game should've been over by half time, and obviously they were great vs Everton too. They just need to find some consistency, because they can be really good and dominant for large parts of any game, and then mess it up for themselves. However, 4 games is a really small sample size so there isn't much to take away from their season so far. But the expectation internally is probably just have more of those good performances than last season and be in or close to the top 4 again by the end of the season.
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It's not a sample size of four games though. They went unbeaten in his first 10 league games, winning 8, and have since gone on to lose more than they've won in the following 32. This includes defeats against Wolves (twice), West Ham, Brighton, and Fulham, as well as losing to basically every decent team they face, home or away.

It all very much points to an early, new manager bounce, with a run of form that they've not come close to matching again once the honeymoon period ended.

It's all well and good saying "well they should have won against Leicester" but they didn't, and we don't give our own managers this sort of leeway. You can't be judged on results you should have achieved, just those that you actually managed, and his results have actually been quite bad for a long stretch now.
 
This time last year he was the shit and people on here were using him as a beating stick for ETH. I said he'd last a year, so I might only be a few months off.

Always think managers with a simpler game plan makes it easier to get players onside quicker, the down side is that it's easier to figure out and the wheels come off quicker too.
 
Oranges038 said:
This time last year he was the shit and people on here were using him as a beating stick for ETH. I said he'd last a year, so I might only be a few months off.

Always think managers with a simpler game plan makes it easier to get players onside quicker, the down side is that it's easier to figure out and the wheels come off quicker too.
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They've managed 2 more points than Everton over the last 32 league games.

Their form since his opening run of games has been, at best, distinctly mid-table. The points per game would have been just enough to finish 13th last season.

They don't look remotely like a club on the up.
 
DJ_21 said:
So every game last season where we played exactly the same despite getting hammered every single week isn’t keeping the same tactics/formation? When I said sticking to the same that can be within a season, not different years when it’s to late. The minute it wasn’t working last year and we was getting dominated every week, something should have changed instantly but it didn’t. The only opponent we changed our style for last season was city/liverpool. Where we played a bit more compact
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If you feel we played "exactly the same" every game last season, I'm not sure what I can say to you! There was an overarching idea for the season (which every manager will have anyway) but there were adaptations to the tactics depending on the opponents and availabilities. There were frequent and recurring issues (notably the space in midfield), but that's a different matter.
 
Alex99 said:
They've managed 2 more points than Everton over the last 32 league games.

Their form since his opening run of games has been, at best, distinctly mid-table. The points per game would have been just enough to finish 13th last season.

They don't look remotely like a club on the up.
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Nah, with Kane gone and Son on the way down, they'd have to invest serious money to replace them with quality to ensure they stayed at the same levels.

They've signed Brennan Johnson, Maddison and Solanke and 3 or 4 other Championship players for big money.
 
Oranges038 said:
Nah, with Kane gone and Son on the way down, they'd have to invest serious money to replace them with quality to ensure they stayed at the same levels.

They've signed Brennan Johnson, Maddison and Solanke and 3 or 4 other Championship players for big money.
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They've definitely not invested well, but even without Kane and with Son fading, the platform was still there for a decent top eight side, capable of challenging for top four.

After their opening run of games, they've barely looked like a top half side.
 
Oranges038 said:
This time last year he was the shit and people on here were using him as a beating stick for ETH. I said he'd last a year, so I might only be a few months off.

Always think managers with a simpler game plan makes it easier to get players onside quicker, the down side is that it's easier to figure out and the wheels come off quicker too.
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Are you suggesting ten hag has a complex game plan and that might explain some of our struggles?

Ange may well not be up to the job but deserves more time to see if that's the case.

People were pretty patient woth ten hag but watching every team overrun us in midfield obviously wore people down
 
Matt851 said:
Are you suggesting ten hag has a complex game plan and that might explain some of our struggles?

Ange may well not be up to the job but deserves more time to see if that's the case.

People were pretty patient woth ten hag but watching every team overrun us in midfield obviously wore people down
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Yeap, I've always seen Ange's football as being very basic fast, direct wide play. It didn't take long for the rest of the PL to cotton on to it either.

It's clear ETH has been specifically building towards an ideal and to do that he always needed more technically proficient players Mazraoi, De Ligt, Mount, Martinez, Eriksen, Onana etc. That's why he's been always looking to replace the technically inept players, McT, Fred, AWB, Lindelof etc etc.

I've said all along it takes 3 years to build a team, people don't like that, but that's the way it is with football. This is his 3rd year now and the one where we should see the biggest leaps forward.
 
Oranges038 said:
Yeap, I've always seen Ange's football as being very basic fast, direct wide play. It didn't take long for the rest of the PL to cotton on to it either.

It's clear ETH has been specifically building towards an ideal and to do that he always needed more technically proficient players Mazraoi, De Ligt, Mount, Martinez, Eriksen, Onana etc. That's why he's been always looking to replace the technically inept players, McT, Fred, AWB, Lindelof etc etc.

I've said all along it takes 3 years to build a team, people don't like that, but that's the way it is with football. This is his 3rd year now and the one where we should see the biggest leaps forward.
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So ten hag requires 3 years and a whole new team, but ange is a fraud after the first few games of his second season?

Ange had a good run of form in his first season, similar to to ten hags good run in his first season. However, ten hags second season was a disaster. We will see where ange lands but your take seems to suggest ten hags system is somehow more complex which is not one many others wpuld share
 
Similar to Ten Hag in that when his high press is ineffective he has no other answers to get results.
 
Matt851 said:
So ten hag requires 3 years and a whole new team, but ange is a fraud after the first few games of his second season?

Ange had a good run of form in his first season, similar to to ten hags good run in his first season. However, ten hags second season was a disaster. We will see where ange lands but your take seems to suggest ten hags system is somehow more complex which is not one many others wpuld share
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It's not a vs thing for me.

ETH is focused on building towards a way of playing. To do that he needs specific technical requirements from his players. Which is why he has targeted players who were technically superior to those at the club in every position. It takes longer to build and get right because you're looking for long term stability and results. So, like I said it's take 3 years to build a team, this is why SAF was always building teams with the vision of where they'd be in 3 years.

It's clear that ETH is building towards having a squad that has technically proficient players in every position. Whether or not he's the guy to get the most of the team remains to be seen.

This time last year everyone was Ange this and that, look at his signings. Where is that team going? What's he building towards? You can't buy championships players and expect that team to hit top 4, compete for trophies and do well in the CL right away. I'd always advocate for giving managers time, but he won't get that at Spurs. If he has a few more bad results I can see it turning very sour, very quickly.
 
For patriotic reasons, I really want to see Ange to do well. I want the world to see that Australia can produce top quality coaches. Sadly though, I think he's gone by Christmas if the Europa League doesn't go well and they're well off the pace regarding top 4.
 
I think he's a good manager, the way he sets up his teams and the way he likes to play is great, he's been let down by some pretty poor moves in the transfer market, I can't remember the last time Spurs bought a decent player, maybe Bissouma, but I have no idea how much of that is on him and how much is on the club. Their squad has got weaker after each summer for the last two seasons.
 
Oranges038 said:
It's not a vs thing for me.

ETH is focused on building towards a way of playing. To do that he needs specific technical requirements from his players. Which is why he has targeted players who were technically superior to those at the club in every position. It takes longer to build and get right because you're looking for long term stability and results. So, like I said it's take 3 years to build a team, this is why SAF was always building teams with the vision of where they'd be in 3 years.

It's clear that ETH is building towards having a squad that has technically proficient players in every position. Whether or not he's the guy to get the most of the team remains to be seen.

This time last year everyone was Ange this and that, look at his signings. Where is that team going? What's he building towards? You can't buy championships players and expect that team to hit top 4, compete for trophies and do well in the CL right away. I'd always advocate for giving managers time, but he won't get that at Spurs. If he has a few more bad results I can see it turning very sour, very quickly.
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That doesn't seem like what Ten Hag has been doing at all. He's been at United three years and the team still can't string five passes together against any side that really contests the ball.

But given that this is the Ange thread, I don't think he is building much either. He gave them an identity and a style of play but its a shallow one that doesn't have enough variation and that other sides have figured out how to deal with. Unless you're absolutely incredible and have a side full of truly top class players, you can't play such a simple style in the PL and expect to sustain success. The other sides and managers are too good. They'll figure out how to give you problems, they'll gain small advantage over you in areas of the game that you're neglecting (like set pieces), etc. The whole thing has a very Brendan Rodgers kind of feel, where the manager is better at selling himself to the media than setting up his side and buys into his own hype a little too much.
 
Powderfinger said:
That doesn't seem like what Ten Hag has been doing at all. He's been at United three years and the team still can't string five passes together against any side that really contests the ball.

But given that this is the Ange thread, I don't think he is building much either. He gave them an identity and a style of play but its a shallow one that doesn't have enough variation and that other sides have figured out how to deal with. Unless you're absolutely incredible and have a side full of truly top class players, you can't play such a simple style in the PL and expect to sustain success. The other sides and managers are too good. They'll figure out how to give you problems, they'll gain small advantage over you in areas of the game that you're neglecting (like set pieces), etc. The whole thing has a very Brendan Rodgers kind of feel, where the manager is better at selling himself to the media than setting up his side and buys into his own hype a little too much.
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Every player he's brought in has been in terms of ability on the ball technically better than the players they've replaced.
 
Oranges038 said:
Every player he's brought in has been in terms of ability on the ball technically better than the players they've replaced.
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I don't care who they replaced, you don't spend 250m on Casemiro, Antony, Hojlund, and Ugarte if your goal is putting together a highly technical side.
 
Powderfinger said:
I don't care who they replaced, you don't spend 250m on Casemiro, Antony, Hojlund, and Ugarte if your goal is putting together a highly technical side.
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And yet, considering the post you responded to and what you're arguing.

Casemiro is an outlier as he was purchased in weird conditions during Ten Hag's first summer. Antony has fine technique and is great at shielding the ball, keeping it while the block moves up (he's probably not the right level of player for what we want to achieve but he is absolutely the type of profile). Hojlund and Ugarte play different roles. Mainoo's journey to the first team has been expedited, and Mazraoui, Mount, de Light, Martinez, Yoro, Onana, Zirkzee are all players that exactly fit that.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
And yet, considering the post you responded to and what you're arguing.

Casemiro is an outlier as he was purchased in weird conditions during Ten Hag's first summer. Antony has fine technique and is great at shielding the ball, keeping it while the block moves up (he's probably not the right level of player for what we want to achieve but he is absolutely the type of profile). Hojlund and Ugarte play different roles. Mainoo's journey to the first team has been expedited, and Mazraoui, Mount, de Light, Martinez, Yoro, Onana, Zirkzee are all players that exactly fit that.
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Anyone trying to defend signing Antony basically invalidates their opinion on any matter
 
How can Spurs lose at home to Arsenal without scoring a single goal?

They have Son, Timo, Solanke. And also Kulu, Bentacur and Maddison etc
 
Captmfla said:
How can Spurs lose at home to Arsenal without scoring a single goal?

They have Son, Timo, Solanke. And also Kulu, Bentacur and Maddison etc
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Mad how Postenoclue frequently has 10 of his players camped in the opposition half, and it still not result in sustained attacking threat.

It’s just high risk for little to no reward.
 
2 man midfield said:
Mad how Postenoclue frequently has 10 of his players camped in the opposition half, and it still not result in sustained attacking threat.

It’s just high risk for little to no reward.
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High risk strategy that netted them the fewest goals of the top 7 teams.
 
Leicester 1-1 Spurs
Newcastle 2-1 Spurs

Those 2 games could've finished different and their current situation would look better (I know it's a matter of "what if", but just saying). They couldn't do much against Arsenal defence but thought Spurs were even with Arsenal, it's just that Gabriel goal made the difference.
 
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