Didn't you see how he let that 1v1 in like an absolute loser??
André Onana | signed for United | On a flight to NYC
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Ole played DDG when DDG was in form, and Henderson when Henderson was in form. If you're a footballer, that's all you can ask for.
At some clubs, there's a clear no 1 goalkeeper and a clear sub goalkeeper; the sub only plays when there's an injury.
At other clubs, you have two goalies competing with each other on an equal footing for the first team. They don't necessarily split the minutes 50:50, but they would still expect to be able to step in from time to time to prove themselves.
Ole, to his credit, did the latter. He had two first team keepers and picked one of them based on form. Rangnick was the one who broke the promise and changed the club policy to the former, and made DDG the undisputed first choice. Henderson obviously signed his contract under the understanding that he'd at least be given a chance and felt betrayed when he wasn't.
I like it when players are willing to sacrifice themselves for the greater good of the team and would have liked Henderson to do that from the bench. But I also don't blame him if he doesn't. He was treated badly at United. So I won't miss him, but I don't hate him either.
Sorry but it's just something people say these days. Metrics I've mentioned are very good at measuring this stuff on a big sample. Some stuff like shotstopping ability or finishing can be easily measured by those parameters. The key here is to look for extremes. Haaland and Allison are on the extreme positive end because they are superb at scoring / making saves. Alison prevented something like 10 goals this season. Maybe he was lucky to play with 1 CB pairing compared to 8 different pairs for De Gea, but in any case that defense in front of Alison didn't do a very good job. Or maybe there's some context I'm missing?
The mistake people do is they take small differences too seriously, but in this case there's plenty of evidence over that last few seasons that overall De Gea is an average shot stopper. Because for every wonder save he also a makes horrendous mistake.
By the way, the same data indicates he was amazing shot stopper a few years back. So yes, eye test and stats again show the same story.
I never described his shot stopping ability as 'bad'. I keep saying he's decent at it still. He's just bad at everything else.
Exactly. Was making a point to someone who said they preferred a keeper who gets clean sheets.
Surely being in a team that got to the final plays such a big part in this that it loses importance?
Works both ways doesn’t it? That Onana played a big part to the the team getting to the final as well?
That's the same as Ten Hag saying De Gea is great. Protecting asset value and squad harmony. No actual step towards renewing De Gea has been made. Even making him an offer that's not final since the new manager hasn't approved it, is mostly a soft move to avoid conflict and let the season end.
I am getting more excited about this as the days go by. It wil be incredibly refreshing to see someone else apart from De Gea in goal.
It's not the same because if one attempts to understand the difference between how ten Hag wants to exert zonal and positional control starting with the GK and how Rangnick was more concerned with getting the ball into the final third quickly without placing a heavy emphasis on the build up phase. It's easy to see why Rangnick wouldn't have a problem with De Gea and why ten Hag predictably would have a problem with a GK who would hamper his play style where the free man option or the +1 in possession against the opponent's off the ball high press was non existent. Only the very staunch defenders of De Gea couldn't see the below (tweet) and it is one of the reasons why we haven't evolved as a football team in a EPL that is being dominated by coaches who adhere to the positional play principles that first appeared on the world stage under Rinus Michels.
And I said on this forum before ten Hag had even taken up his role at United, he would defend his players to the death publically but what he said publically is one thing and what he thought privately is another thing.
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Yeah. I mean in terms of transformation, I can't think of a better signing for our team right now. We're going to look like a completely different side with this one purchase
Yeah especially when it’s absolute numbers rather than per game.
Depends on how many times he was called upon?
We got to two finals last year with a keeper that everybody agrees isn’t good enough for us anymore
and he was solely the reason why we lost the 1 final we did.
As it should be. I got sick of watching Mourinho throw players under the bus.
How is either of these points against Ole and Rangnick defending player's asset value?
Ole only ever spoke positively about every player, even the ones we sold during his time.
He wanted us to play high defensive line, evident from the Henderson experiment (when we played much better and with Maguire being fine, weirdly). Then Henderson got Covid and somehow De Gea reclaimed his spot. Especially since everyone never forgot that howler Henderson had.
But note that Ten Hag also played De Gea in every game even when the few games Heaton played we were much moresl secure at the back. Even without the passing, Heaton claimed high balls and sweeped.
But Ten Hag played De Gea. I strongly suspect De Gea has a "must be selected if fit" clause in his contract and/or has great influence in the squad and is known to use it for good and bad.
So while Ten Hag is "on record" for wanting the positional superiority, that doesn't mean Ole or Rangnick were particularly happy (and Ole even went for Henderson) and would've renewed his contract.
Rangnick said open surgery but never named anyone. His comment was overall stupid, but doesn't mean he wanted to extend De Gea and didn't see a new GK as an upgrade.
Agree, per 90 with a certain game minimum is the fairest to go on such kind of metrics. Like minimum 6 games (groups).
Save % - 78th percentile (80.7% save rate)
Clean sheets percentage - 85th percentile (61.5% rate)
Crosses stopped - 70th percentile (7.1% rate)
Nothing close to recoveries on fbref (https://fbref.com/en/players/e9c0c1b2/scout/11454/Andre-Onana-Scouting-Report) but his average distance per defensive action (14% percentile, avg 10.1m from goal) indicates Inter played quite deep defensive line in the CL
So, looking at it like that makes it weird how he got 1st place on these and yes, almost entirely due to playing max games.
To be fair, Curtois' numbers are worse with only exception being average distance per defensive action: https://fbref.com/en/players/1840e36d/scout/11454/Thibaut-Courtois-Scouting-Report
Japanese born? He is Japanese and has Japanese mother.
I‘m gonna give an example that explains how I think about it.
Stats from first half of the season indicate DeGea‘s shot stopping is far below average, second half suddenly he is somewhat above average.
I thought David did ok until the last few months, then he had 3/4 bad performances that changed my mind about keeping him for another year so we could sort out other positions.
Stats are unreliable for gk especially, the samples are just not big enough.
Well if we then just compare the two final keepers, he’s better than Ederson. That’s basically the bench mark we’re looking at when trying to close the gap to City.
How have you made this about Solskjaer?
The post you quoted was about how Inter ended up signing Onana at a time when Solskjaer and Rangnick were at the helm. And when Rangnick made those comments about open heart surgery etc, he was asked in following press conferences about which players weren't an issue and he said the goal keeper was fine along with Elanga and McTominay who he saw as a future United captain. And if one understands how Rangnick saw football and went about implementing his vision, it was clear to see that his methods were heavily centred around pressing and counter pressing high up the pitch hence the GK in the build up wasn't a big concern to him and the likes of McTominay and Elanga potentiallly provided the physicality and athleticism higher up the pitch which Rangnick liked due his aim to win the ball back proactively in a high line. Under ten Hag or any coach who adheres to the positional play principles, the aim is to exert zonal and positional control with and without the ball in a vertical axis where the build up is coached to create numerical superiorities via positionally occupying zones/spaces to create the extra pass through rondos/triangles. Rangnick didn't coach such a method in possession and Solskjaer had never come close to coaching such a method in a high line at a high enough level. Solskjaer actually didn't coach at all in his own words and left the coaching to others.
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As things stand, the guys who are hoping for transformation of the team into an elite passing one from getting this guy would be quite disappointed. The biggest factor remains the midfield and even if Mount is great, we need another very good midfielder. Doesn't look like we can fill that position yet.
So I suspect the team's progress in terms of passing ability would be marginal at best.
What I am looking forward to most with a De Gea replacement is a keeper who isn't afraid of sweeping which in turn will allow us to have a high line. Seems from the few vids I have seen of Onana that he does do the job of a sweeper keeper well (though more risk taking than I would like). The high line could help us in our attacking transitions (counter attacking) that the likes of Rashford and Bruno relish.
So I suspect the team's progress in terms of passing ability would be marginal at best.
What I am looking forward to most with a De Gea replacement is a keeper who isn't afraid of sweeping which in turn will allow us to have a high line. Seems from the few vids I have seen of Onana that he does do the job of a sweeper keeper well (though more risk taking than I would like). The high line could help us in our attacking transitions (counter attacking) that the likes of Rashford and Bruno relish.
He certainly didn't do OK in the first half of the season, he condeded 12 goals total from PsXG of around 7 (Brentford, Brighton, City). He was around 15th-19th on this parameter in the league until he recovered in mid season (that was a good run). But in the end he made a few mistakes in latter stages of the season to eventually end up around 10th in the league on PsXG (that stands for shotstopping ability).
Regarding the sample - PsXG is calculated on shots on target, that is 140+ instances. If that isn't representative, no stat will be enough for you.
I have a feeling you ignore some games as outliers (we had quite a few outliers this season) and your opinion of De Gea is made on the rest of the matches.
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To be honest, I do believe he/we were quite unlucky in those few games (19 goals from 4 games). But in the end there's one dogma that we need to follow and that is - luck/bad luck always evens out on larger sample. And that is why in the end De Gea lands in "average" zone.
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I got intrigued by the Golden Glove/clean sheet award and it's quite easy to verify this looking at stats, because goalkeepers don't prevent shots, they only save them (that's a bit simplified but let's assume so). Therefore looking at this table:
there's only one instance where he clearly saved our asses (Leicester, which was the first and last game with Sabitzer experiment in DM/DLP as both Case/Eriksen were out).
Now we can argue in how many games the defense did the job (I'd argue in at least 7 games of those 17), but I'd definitely say Golden Glove is the team effort achievement.
I also do think he has a nice trait to make good saves when not called to action often. But on the other hand, when things go south it's almost like we're playing with no keeper.
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I think he would bring exactly what Ten Hag wants in a GK. My only worry is how our some of our less 'positionally-aware' defenders (and midfielders) will cope with the new playing style.
Onana will play passes which will put them under pressure and their decision making will be key to beating the press. Other than Casemiro, Martinez, and probably Shaw, I'm not sure the likes of Wan Bissaka, Maguire, Dalot, Lindelof, McTominay can handle the demands of the new style.
We might be seeing quite a few mistakes trying to play out from the back this year, especially in the first few months
Onana will play passes which will put them under pressure and their decision making will be key to beating the press. Other than Casemiro, Martinez, and probably Shaw, I'm not sure the likes of Wan Bissaka, Maguire, Dalot, Lindelof, McTominay can handle the demands of the new style.
We might be seeing quite a few mistakes trying to play out from the back this year, especially in the first few months
Well I didn’t know that and I only know what I’ve read him described as in the paper, but with a name like Suzuki it’s not really in doubt is it.
Our main midfielders, casemiro, Eriksen and mount are all excellent passers of the ball... Bruno can be a little wayward but the likes of Fred etc are backup players.
This time they won't be competing for balls hoofed in the air, it will be to feet.
All the players you mention here bar one of the right backs are not out and out first team players..
Our core team will be ready to go with a ball playing style.
Gimme hope Onana
Hope Onana
Gimme hope Onana
'Fore the morning come
Gimme hope Onana
Hope Onana
Hope before the window done
Hope Onana
Gimme hope Onana
'Fore the morning come
Gimme hope Onana
Hope Onana
Hope before the window done
This! With Onana as GK, we would have won that game. DDG costed us the FA Cup.
Right, I'd add that the entire philosophy of the gegenpressing tactic is to take the ball away from the opponent while they're set up to attack and take advantage of their defensive unpreparedness. Giving the ball to the opponent with long goal kicks isn't inconsistent with that.
Not sure if posted already but potential song? Seems very obvious to me.
It can literally only be this. I sing it internally every time I see his name written down.
Luckily for us. Mctominay, Maguire, lindelof won’t be playing. Lindelof will be back up defender. The other 2 hardly any game time. AWB and Dalot can probably get coached it and learn it. Be good when he hits the ball into midfield to Mount though who will relish it.
Rihanna
O na na
What a save
O na na
What a save
O na na
What a save what a save what a save
Or use the wanyama song
ohhhhhhh, Andre onana
Andre oooonana
Andre Onana
onana Onana oooooooh
that’s amore
when we pass from the back and we build the attack that’s Onana
6ft 3 inches tall hes so calm on the ball that’s Onana
O na na
What a save
O na na
What a save
O na na
What a save what a save what a save
Or use the wanyama song
ohhhhhhh, Andre onana
Andre oooonana
Andre Onana
onana Onana oooooooh
that’s amore
when we pass from the back and we build the attack that’s Onana
6ft 3 inches tall hes so calm on the ball that’s Onana
"Errors" for keepers is a bullshit statistic. Every week you'll see a keeper have a howler that hasn't counted as an "error" or a "mistake leading to goal" in the stats.
Yeah, goalkeeping stats are a tricky thing to pin down. Is Allison fantastic at making one on one saves? Yes but thats because he gets his angles perfect and knows exactly when to rush out and narrow the angle and force the issue. Goalkeeping is probably more about the work you do before the save that actually making the save. If you don't put in the right work before the shot is struck you won't get near it. Is that an error or not? In stats, probably not.
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