André Onana | signed for United | On a flight to NYC

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golden_blunder said:
Antony
Maguire
Fred
Bruno
Williams
Garnacho
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Maguire looks more like your boring neighboor than a footballer and Fred is perfectly fine (great smile as someone mentioned and seems like a good spirit).

Antony I agree while Garnacho looks like he would get an instant role in Peaky Blinders (not sure if that is good or bad). All together, pretty handsome bunch imo. That would be all from me on this subject.
 
NLunited said:
Sounds like you are cherry picking which things to look at, stats and eye test often indicate very different things.
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You accuse me of cherry picking stats and they you say this:
NLunited said:
The eye test tells me he was a good shot stopper last season until the last two months where he made a couple of horrendous mistakes.
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The eye test and stats tell you the same story, it's just you're drawing the wrong conclusion if you think he was anything more than "average" shostopper. He's around 10th on PSxG for 22/23 season what sounds about right (because "he was a good shot stopper last season until the last two months where he made a couple of horrendous mistakes").

I don't know how "he was good until he made a couple of horrendous mistakes" make things better for De Gea (I've seen this "line of defense" quite a few times on this forum), but that is why you look at the stats that calculate this based on big sample (that's hundreds of shots over the course of the season). In simple terms, he conceded more goals that he "should" statistically. That is far more important than number of times he and the defensive line didn't concede a goal.

Anyway, I think he's a decent shot stopper, and it's not a reason we're letting him go. The main reason is he doesn't offer anything else on acceptable level for us to move forward.

NLunited said:
If you compare stats in different leagues or time periods for the same gk, you get huge discrepancies.
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Yeah same players have different stats in different clubs/seasons. But the point is it's easy to prove some theses like "playr X is very good shotstopper/Player Y is very good finisher" because we have stats for that. It was the case with De Gea a few years ago, but not anymore.

Congrats to De Gea on Golden Glove award, that's all I'll say on this topic.
 
Strelok said:
I wasn't following the topic back then what did he do?
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He got promised first team football by Ole, then Ole never played him, he was told he could leave, then Ole told him he had to stay because we had no backup. Then he finally got a loan move to Forrest and then he called out the club for breaking promises and being a shit show. Also said he never wanted to go back etc.
 
crossy1686 said:
He got promised first team football by Ole, then Ole never played him, he was told he could leave, then Ole told him he had to stay because we had no backup. Then he finally got a loan move to Forrest and then he called out the club for breaking promises and being a shit show. Also said he never wanted to go back etc.
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So he did burn bridges I guess. Thanks for the info mate.
 
WPMUFC said:
I don't think we'll sign another keeper in this window for any kind of real fee, but surely heaton is not no.2?

Are we really going to let Henderson ride the bench after he burnt bridges?
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That Suzuki kid had a 5m tag so maybe that can be another backup option.

Henderson will definitely be sold
 
WPMUFC said:
I don't think we'll sign another keeper in this window for any kind of real fee, but surely heaton is not no.2?

Are we really going to let Henderson ride the bench after he burnt bridges?
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Henderson has a £20mil move to forest on pause while we sort out the keeper situation.
 
OrcaFat said:
That cash will be most welcome! And Henderson not being here will be a bonus.
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At this point I'm just hoping we make enough sales to generate 70-80m which could help us buy a proven striker.
 
crossy1686 said:
He got promised first team football by Ole, then Ole never played him, he was told he could leave, then Ole told him he had to stay because we had no backup. Then he finally got a loan move to Forrest and then he called out the club for breaking promises and being a shit show. Also said he never wanted to go back etc.
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Henderson was out with covid at the start of the season, and Ole was gone by November. It wasn't Solskjaer that didn't any of what you're claiming. It was Rangnick.
 
Borys said:
You accuse me of cherry picking stats and they you say this:

The eye test and stats tell you the same story, it's just you're drawing the wrong conclusion if you think he was anything more than "average" shostopper. He's around 10th on PSxG for 22/23 season what sounds about right (because "he was a good shot stopper last season until the last two months where he made a couple of horrendous mistakes").

I don't know how "he was good until he made a couple of horrendous mistakes" make things better for De Gea (I've seen this "line of defense" quite a few times on this forum), but that is why you look at the stats that calculate this based on big sample (that's hundreds of shots over the course of the season). In simple terms, he conceded more goals that he "should" statistically. That is far more important than number of times he and the defensive line didn't concede a goal.

Anyway, I think he's a decent shot stopper, and it's not a reason we're letting him go. The main reason is he doesn't offer anything else on acceptable level for us to move forward.


Yeah same players have different stats in different clubs/seasons. But the point is it's easy to prove some theses like "playr X is very good shotstopper/Player Y is very good finisher" because we have stats for that. It was the case with De Gea a few years ago, but not anymore.

Congrats to De Gea on Golden Glove award, that's all I'll say on this topic.
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My problem with how people interpret gk statistics is that they don‘t offer enough context. It is not easy at all to prove X or Y with statistics at all.

As Mark Twain said “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.”

And yes, one won‘t win a golden glove award if one is a bad shot stopper. Especially not with more than eight different cb pairings.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
Awful but then the chorus……

What about…..

“Play out the back Onana
Back Onana
Out the back Onana let the pressing come
Play out the back Onana
Back Onana
Man Uniteds Number One”
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Work in „50 million pounds too much“ and „what about the Africa cup“.
 
Hmmmm, a bit ambivalent about an anti-apartheid song aimed at an African player. One the one hand it fits on the other hand feels a little misguided.
 
Devil You Know said:
Henderson was out with covid at the start of the season, and Ole was gone by November. It wasn't Solskjaer that didn't any of what you're claiming. It was Rangnick.
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I think he got caught in the middle of all that mess to be fair, but I did find this:
When returning to Man Utd in summer 2020, then manager Ole Gunnar Solskjaer promised Henderson he would get regular game time. He spent most of the 2020-21 campaign on the bench but started to impress in the final few months of the season.
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NLunited said:
My problem with how people interpret gk statistics is that they don‘t offer enough context. It is not easy at all to prove X or Y with statistics at all.

As Mark Twain said “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.”

And yes, one won‘t win a golden glove award if one is a bad shot stopper. Especially not with more than eight different cb pairings.
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The golden glove award is exactly the kind of statistic that Twain was talking about. Ederson has as many as De Gea in half the number of seasons played. By your logic, Ederson was a better shot-stopper than every other keeper in the league for the two seasons he won it (he was just above average for post-shot xG those seasons too, making it even clearer that clean sheets are a nonsense statistic for goalkeepers), and is at least as good a shot-stopper as De Gea based on the same.

This would be a patently absurd assertion and should tell you that how a team controls the ball and defends as a unit has far more to do with the likelihood of a clean sheet being kept than the goalkeeper’s shot-stopping ability.
 
Rapsel said:
Hmmmm, a bit ambivalent about an anti-apartheid song aimed at an African player. One the one hand it fits on the other hand feels a little misguided.
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Jesus Christ, will people find the negative with anything?
 
Rapsel said:
Hmmmm, a bit ambivalent about an anti-apartheid song aimed at an African player. One the one hand it fits on the other hand feels a little misguided.
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Have a day off.

The alternative is a Rihanna song which frankly I find more offensive.
 
sifi36 said:
The golden glove award is exactly the kind of statistic that Twain was talking about. Ederson has as many as De Gea in half the number of seasons played. By your logic, Ederson was a better shot-stopper than every other keeper in the league for the two seasons he won it (he was just above average for post-shot xG those seasons too, making it even clearer that clean sheets are a nonsense statistic for goalkeepers), and is at least as good a shot-stopper as De Gea based on the same.

This would be a patently absurd assertion and should tell you that how a team controls the ball and defends as a unit has far more to do with the likelihood of a clean sheet being kept than the goalkeeper’s shot-stopping ability.
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No you just decide that this particular metric, clean sheets, is less indicative of shot stopping ability than the others.

Your argument falls flat on its face when you realize our defensive unit had 8+ different cb pairings. I‘m not even bringing up the state of our midfield.
 
JustinC00 said:
People dooming about his shot stopping when we've had this

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Not exactly an honest comparison when you pick 4-5 gifs from a 12yr career from a player who was both our players & fans player of the year 4 times.
 
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