[Socratic]

Mystified at how so many posters on here rate Onana.
He has terrible fundamentals and the counterweight to his below par goalkeeping ability (distribution) has evaporated.

Tom Heaton is the best keeper at the club, how he can't get a game ahead of the other two is baffling when they're consistently poor.
Fergie in the past went to Van Der Gouw and Lindegaard when he felt it necessary. Heaton is comfortably better than either of those options.

 

[criticalanalysis]

It's a failing all around.

Our coaching staff should be setting us up way better at corners (obviously)
Our outfield players should have the nous and brain to want to protect their goalkeeper
Our goalkeeper should have the command to be able to grab our players and get them back to protect him.

Literally everyone comes out of it looking like shit.

Exactly this, which is why it's so frustrating. All 3 critical elements seem to be failing so hard. Surely at least one would come out looking 'ah they tried but it didn't work' but it's everyone fecking up.

I just had a quick look so not entirely accurate but I don't think Casemiro has been on the pitch with the many goals we've conceded from set pieces and I don't think that's a coincidence too.

 

[Gandalf]

What's De Gea been up to since he left?

It was the right decision to let De Gea leave. It was the wrong decision to bring in Onana as his replacement.

Currently first choice for Fiorentina who are pushing for a CL spot and having a strong season, DDG himself has been in great form and seems to have cracked how to save penalties at this late stage in his career.

I do agree letting DDG leave was the right move though, it is sickening that we spent 50M on a lousy replacement though when Raya was far better, cheaper and available. ETH has a lot to answer for.

 

[Litch]

Mistakes haven't cost us games this season but his saves have won us them. There are many other issues much greater than the keeper, but I think it would be good to have some genuine competition. I think this will happen in January....

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Mistakes haven't cost us games this season but his saves have won us them. There are many other issues much greater than the keeper, but I think it would be good to have some genuine competition. I think this will happen in January....

I see you've wiped the Forest game from your memory banks already. Don't blame you to be honest.

 

[Vidooq]

His save for the Strand Larsen header was hilarious, you could see the look of disgust on Maguire’s face that he tipped that over for a corner instead of catching it or at least parrying it before saving.

He’s a joke of a keeper but we need so many positions that he’s just tolerated for the time being but no serious person views him as reliable option long term.

I've defended him a lot last year, but that one was for cameras. Gave away a corner for no aparent reason bar looking good for tipping it over the bar, from a ball he could've easily caught and kept possession. Harry had every right to ask him what the freak are you doing?

 

[Litch]

I see you've wiped the Forest game from your memory banks already. Don't blame you to be honest.

Don't think the mistake was the difference between us winning or losing but it certainly didn't help. I know it's goalkeeping and ultimately the blame stops there but the defending in that forest game was shocking....

He's not my choice, but I think hes a good keeper. I just prefer a more rounded keeper but I suspect we'll be spending the money elsewhere for at least another season unless we can get someone on the cheap...

 

[FattyFooty]

Keeper is a underrated position.

Onana is nowhere near the level we need if we are suppose to reach CL again.

Hes to me by far the worst keeper in United that got 50 + games the last 30 years. At least how i recall it...

 

[Litch]

Keeper is a underrated position.

Onana is nowhere near the level we need if we are suppose to reach CL again.

Hes to me by far the worst keeper in United that got 50 + games the last 30 years. At least how i recall it...

Worst Keeper in Utd that got 50+ games....I know some don't rate him but behave. You know he's played in a CL final, can't be many keepers that's done that....didn't cost inter and most would argue he played a big part getting them there.

 

[FattyFooty]

Worst Keeper in Utd that got 50+ games....I know some don't rate him but behave. You know he's played in a CL final, can't be many keepers that's done that....didn't cost inter and most would argue he played a big part getting them there.

What keeper is better that has 50+ games the last 30 years? I dont recall. Maybe you can make me remeber?

 

[lex talionis]

Mistakes happen, even by undeniably world class keepers such as Peter the Great, but the great promise of Onana was his brilliant distribution, from which phenomenal ball possession leading to great chances were to be crafted.

It’s safe to say that Onana’s distribution is nothing special.

 

[Shaw's Shank Redemption]

Ball playing ability is very overrated especially for a goalkeeper.

He hardly gets to kick the ball out anyway when holding on to possesion.

Whats more important is to be able as

A) play as a sweeper keeper
B) able to command your box

Add a bit of ball distribution to that with feet and you have the perfect keeper.

 

[Pickle85]

Ball playing ability is very overrated especially for a goalkeeper.

He hardly gets to kick the ball out anyway when holding on to possesion.

Whats more important is to be able as

A) play as a sweeper keeper
B) able to command your box

Add a bit of ball distribution to that with feet and you have the perfect keeper.

No mention of handling, reflexes, shot stopping etc?

 

[WhatIsLove]

No mention of handling, reflexes, shot stopping etc?

That is what a keeper should be good at by default

 

[Shaw's Shank Redemption]

No mention of handling, reflexes, shot stopping etc?

Thats the basics of goalkeeping so i left it out.

The modern day GK has to be a sweeper keeper & if i remember right this was why Ederson was bought by City, not necessarily to play passes especially long ones where Onana is kicking the ball up to Hojlund. Its why we let go of De Gea because he was always on his line and never controlling his box.

Considering we have 3 CB's the ball is rotated between 3 in the back line and the goalkeeper until a passing lane is open, i dont think a goalkeeper's passing options are so hard in the modern game to pull off in comparison to being a sweeper keeper.

 

[Insanity]

Mistakes happen, even by undeniably world class keepers such as Peter the Great, but the great promise of Onana was his brilliant distribution, from which phenomenal ball possession leading to great chances were to be crafted.

It’s safe to say that Onana’s distribution is nothing special.

I still remember reading one of the greatest essays written on the subject, one of the current day classics, a 21st century masterpiece, on how we are going to score more goals once we get a "ball playing keeper".

 

[Stadjer]

Mistakes happen, even by undeniably world class keepers such as Peter the Great, but the great promise of Onana was his brilliant distribution, from which phenomenal ball possession leading to great chances were to be crafted.

It’s safe to say that Onana’s distribution is nothing special.

His short passing is good. When he is pressured he doesnt panic and finds a defender without issue. He created a one of one for Dalot just this season with his long passing. Usually his long passes are wasted because none of our forwards will win their (header) duel though.

Onana his special quality is his ability on the ball and his ability to play out of a press. He isnt going to create great chances often. No goalkeeper does that.

Overall he isnt a world class goalkeeper but he is fine for a club that wants to compete for major titles.

 

[Pickle85]

That is what a keeper should be good at by default

Thats the basics of goalkeeping so i left it out.

The modern day GK has to be a sweeper keeper & if i remember right this was why Ederson was bought by City, not necessarily to play passes especially long ones where Onana is kicking the ball up to Hojlund. Its why we let go of De Gea because he was always on his line and never controlling his box.

Considering we have 3 CB's the ball is rotated between 3 in the back line and the goalkeeper until a passing lane is open, i dont think a goalkeeper's passing options are so hard in the modern game to pull off in comparison to being a sweeper keeper.

Fair enough, though reading this thread it often appeared that those fundamentals were secondary to many (not saying you two!) to abilities with ball at feet.

 

[Irwin99]

His short passing and coolness on the ball is undeniably excellent. Long range passing hasn’t been phenomenal or transformative though.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

I still remember reading one of the greatest essays written on the subject, one of the current day classics, a 21st century masterpiece, on how we are going to score more goals once we get a "ball playing keeper".

It would help us score more goals than a proper striker who can score goals, is what I mainly remember from that masterpiece.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

We needed De Gea to improve his passing and to come for crosses more aggressively. That would have made the ideal keeper, pairing god-like reflexes with "modern" components of the sweeper-keeper.

Instead, we got a better passer of the ball who is far worse at the basics of goalkeeping. Yes, they gave him the run of the park in Italy, but that hasn't happened in the PL. Whether that's down to energy levels or better players, who knows. The result though, is that his vaunted ability to let our defenders play halfway up the pitch and then to find an attacker with a 70 yarder... well, that hasn't happened and it's never going to with him.

Unless there's a massive turnaround in second half of this season, we need to move him on. Tried, didn't work. We've had a lot of really nice players in the team the past few years, but maybe we need to have some hard bastards who don't smile. Sad fact is too many in the squad are simply not good enough for any realistic hope of top 4, let alone vying for winning the league.

Sell.

 

[Rossa]

Is it too much to ask for a big fecker of a goalkeeper who is solid, can catch the ball and command his box?

Imagine Schmeichel in goal and Keane for Ugarte and then imagine that goal ever happening. Those are the standards. This is the way!

 

[lex talionis]

I still remember reading one of the greatest essays written on the subject, one of the current day classics, a 21st century masterpiece, on how we are going to score more goals once we get a "ball playing keeper".

I remember that too. Maybe not that one essay you're thinking of, but I recall the mania that swept over this and other forums and YouTubers about how a ball playing keeper would transform our attack. That Onana never did transform our attack isn't his fault, and it's not his fault that mania swept over mancunia -- that's our fault.

 

[lex talionis]

His short passing is good. When he is pressured he doesnt panic and finds a defender without issue. He created a one of one for Dalot just this season with his long passing. Usually his long passes are wasted because none of our forwards will win their (header) duel though.

Onana his special quality is his ability on the ball and his ability to play out of a press. He isnt going to create great chances often. No goalkeeper does that.

Overall he isnt a world class goalkeeper but he is fine for a club that wants to compete for major titles.

Agreed. Onana's short passing is good, but nothing special at least among PL keepers. His first touch is, however, outstanding, and that really does make a difference in his ability to make the pass out to the fullbacks. Despite his flaws Onana may be the least of the problems of a club which cannot score goals.

 

[Rossa]

Apparently not happy with life in Manchester and wants to move, according to Norwegian supporter website.

 

[Red71]

I don’t rate the lad personally as I don’t think that he has the appropriate ‘keeping fundamentals. I say that to be transparent as it probably informs my views on that goal to a degree, even if I still desperately want him to do well. I just think it looked soft…I don’t remember Big Peter or Edwin letting in goals like that.

My question is (& not to you necessarily), why was it allowed if it was so clearly a foul? I do personally think that we are treated incredibly harshly by refs and VAR for some reason and also don’t think we’d get away with it if it was the other way around. I remember a foul on De Gea for something similar (maybe also Wolves…?) and he was practically smashed in to the back of his own net whilst the goal was given from the corner. The pundits and media were all “No foul, he needs to be stronger there etc…” but I couldn’t shake the feeling we’d been really hard done by and that I was looking at a goal that wouldn’t be allowed if it was for us…certainly I don’t recall anything similar being given since although is that just because most PL goalkeepers are just that bit better at standing their ground and not being bullied…?

 

[Litch]

What keeper is better that has 50+ games the last 30 years? I dont recall. Maybe you can make me remeber?

You not got Google on your phone? Also too many variables over a 30 year period to apply the concept of 'worst' or 'better'. What metric are you measuring that based on?

 

[Escobar]

Apparently not happy with life in Manchester and wants to move, according to Norwegian supporter website.

He has not been good enough for whatever reason so no one would stand in his way

 

[christy87]

He simply isn’t good enough

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

I don’t rate the lad personally as I don’t think that he has the appropriate ‘keeping fundamentals. I say that to be transparent as it probably informs my views on that goal to a degree, even if I still desperately want him to do well. I just think it looked soft…I don’t remember Big Peter or Edwin letting in goals like that.

My question is (& not to you necessarily), why was it allowed if it was so clearly a foul? I do personally think that we are treated incredibly harshly by refs and VAR for some reason and also don’t think we’d get away with it if it was the other way around. I remember a foul on De Gea for something similar (maybe also Wolves…?) and he was practically smashed in to the back of his own net whilst the goal was given from the corner. The pundits and media were all “No foul, he needs to be stronger there etc…” but I couldn’t shake the feeling we’d been really hard done by and that I was looking at a goal that wouldn’t be allowed if it was for us…certainly I don’t recall anything similar being given since although is that just because most PL goalkeepers are just that bit better at standing their ground and not being bullied…?

It happens because most officials here referee reputations, when it comes to decisions that could go either way, to avoid criticism. And most pundits do the same since the majority of fans don't care about nuanced analytics but prefer to perceive reality in terms of black and white.

De Gea's reluctance to come out his line and control his penalty area definitely worked against him. Onana is still trying to shake off that non-penalty call against Wolves at OT in his debut. It doesn't help when your team isn't performing well, either.

If it had been Alisson, he would have blown the whistle before the ball had even bulged the net.

 

[AndySmith1990]

Can't say I'm a fan. But it's a sad situation when I can think of half a dozen positions that need sorting first. It's another De Gea situation. A player who isn't great, but not so unbelievably shit that replacing him is a priority

 

[fergiewherearethou]

Can't say I'm a fan. But it's a sad situation when I can think of half a dozen positions that need sorting first. It's another De Gea situation. A player who isn't great, but not so unbelievably shit that replacing him is a priority

Exactly, we are so bad in other areas so a shaky GK is acceptable for the time being.

 

[DJ_21]

Exactly, we are so bad in other areas so a shaky GK is acceptable for the time being.

The thing is, if we are much better in the other areas then we’d have to rely on the keeper a lot less. Once we get to the dominant possession team Amorim wants, we should be facing miles less shots…

 

[DJ_21]

Is it too much to ask for a big fecker of a goalkeeper who is solid, can catch the ball and command his box?

We should throw everything at Martinez from Villa. Very good keeper. Solid, quite tall.

 

[golden_blunder]

We should throw everything at Martinez from Villa. Very good keeper. Solid, quite tall.

 

[DJ_21]

I doubt he’d say no to us. We’re much bigger than Villa and he might think it’s time to move on. Although we are not as good as them at the minute.

 

[tomaldinho1]

We should throw everything at Martinez from Villa. Very good keeper. Solid, quite tall.

This season he has been all over the shop, isn't he one of the worst keepers statistically in the PL? I like him but if someone wants a steady eddie to replace Onana, it certainly isn't him.

Tonight is huge for Onana, there's a feeling when a bad error (Forest) comes it takes him a while to dig himself out of the mental hole. Needs a big game.

 

[DJ_21]

This season he has been all over the shop, isn't he one of the worst keepers statistically in the PL? I like him but if someone wants a steady eddie to replace Onana, it certainly isn't him.

Tonight is huge for Onana, there's a feeling when a bad error (Forest) comes it takes him a while to dig himself out of the mental hole. Needs a big game.

So he’s had a bad season or a bad few games. So did Ederson and Alison. Martinez is still probably top 3 in the world.

 

[tomaldinho1]

So he’s had a bad season or a bad few games. So did Ederson and Alison. Martinez is still probably top 3 in the world.

He's 32 and had an amazing period between the WC and then the CL season with Villa but, be honest, how often was mentioned on here when he was at Arsenal or early Villa days? He's not young or new to the league. That doesn't make him bad, I actually rate him, but I can't help but think you're basing your rating of him off essentially a ~1 year period (as am I). Therefore having a bad first half of the season does impact my view of how much I would want him here given his age i.e. this isn't a young guy to develop, this is his peak. He is genuinely incredible at penalties but I think that has elevated him a bit higher than his actual level in many people's minds and is not relevant in most games of football.

 

[Zlatan 7]

He's 32 and had an amazing period between the WC and then the CL season with Villa but, be honest, how often was mentioned on here when he was at Arsenal or early Villa days? He's not young or new to the league. That doesn't make him bad, I actually rate him, but I can't help but think you're basing your rating of him off essentially a ~1 year period (as am I). Therefore having a bad first half of the season does impact my view of how much I would want him here given his age i.e. this isn't a young guy to develop, this is his peak. He is genuinely incredible at penalties but I think that has elevated him a bit higher than his actual level in many people's minds and is not relevant in most games of football.

Not just the penalties, he basically saved argentinas World Cup with that save in the dying seconds. Everything seemed to go right for him.
I would have taken him last year in a heartbeat after the World Cup. I haven’t seen him this year and also didn’t realise he was that old.

We need to replace Onana with someone though