Anderson Vs Lucas

But Lucas was great last season.

"great"... feck off!

He did well(ish) in a shite team.

"Great"... feck me, if he was great, what were Kevin Nolan and Joey Barton? :rolleyes:

And feck that Brazil nonsense off, playing DM for Brazil generally means feck all considering previous player's who've had that role in MUCH better Brazil teams are Kleberson and Gilberto. I'll say it again, the over-rating of Lucas after a few dog shit seasons and one decent ish one where his team had their worst season in umpteen years is laughable.
 
This is a strange discussion with lot's of silly arguments.

A couple of years ago a lot of Pool-supporters where screaming out load when they saw Lucas on the team sheet. And to be honest I agreed with them. At that time he was a limited player who often did easy mistakes and sometimes he looked like Bambi on thin ice. But with age and experience he has developed into a reliable and good player with lot's of energy and discipline. He's been rewarded for his hard work and earned a place in Brazil's national team and admiration from his own supporters.

I think it's fair to say that the last two seasons he has been more important to Liverpool then Ando to United.

Anderson started from a totally different level then Lucas. He was branded as the best young talent in U-17 WC and he was a huge hit in his first season with Porto. So when he unexpected moved to us the expectations was very high and nearly every supporter saw him as the new Messiah (read Paul Scholes).

He wasn't the new Ronaldinho but he was more then OK in his first season. The talent was obvious and you could easily see that he had the potential to be a world class player. The problem was to find his position and that he was a little bit inconsistent.

The seasons went on and Giggs played like a God and Ginger was was still a genius so it wasn't easy for him to establish himself as a starter. He was also very unlucky with injuries and that reflected his performance's in his last two seasons.

After a period last season with hit and miss he has now found his feet. His pre season games has been excellent and against City he was close to the player everybody thought he would become when we first saw him a few years ago.

In my opinion there is no contest between Lucas and Anderson.

One is a very good "water carrier", a type of player that every team needs but he's not the player who can carry his team on his back and takes them to glory.

The other one has all the tools you need to be a world class player in his position. He has the physical attributes and the only things he need right now is games and experience.

Lucas is ahead of Anderson in development but far behind regarding talent and potential. The first part will probably be changed after this season if Ando can be injure free. Then we will look back at this discussion with a smile.
 
Are you suggesting that Lucas is better than Mascherano?

On the ball - always.

There are few players in the world better than Mascherano defensively and despite Lucas coming leaps and bounds in that department he is not up there.

Depends what you want/need from your team though. In rafa's final season, we suffered more from Mascherano's limited ability on the ball than we gained from his solidity. It was not an issue when he was partnered with Alonso, who could pass the ball for two, freeing Masch from taking up more responsibility than playing simple 5 yard passes and making the occasional mercurial raid. In such a setup, I'd pick Masch.

Lucas is a much better allrounder in midfield. He can protect the backfour and string things together. Imo, he is an asset in more midfield setups than Masch, as he is not as limited.

Watching Spearing and Lucas keeping a good flow in midfield together under Kenny was a bit of an eye-opener to me about what Masch couldn't do when partnered with Lucas.
 
Are people seriously now saying that Lucas is better than Anderson?

Lucas has improved no doubt about it, and he does the Fletcher role very well for Liverpool in their big games (i.e. against us he always seems to have a blinder according to Liverpool fans I've spoken to) but even with his inconsistency Anderson is still the better player
 
He wasn't being serious.

Of course. Hence the wannabe part.

Lucas is a decent player who puts a shift in. Plenty of them around. Anderson has real quality to his play and the potential to be the guy that runs the show.
 
I think people are forgetting that Lucas was a different player before he came to England. Far more of a playmaker, box-to-box. He was asked to change his role into that of a holding player, one of the most tactically demanding for a young player to fulfil, and obviously struggled for some time in transition. Lucas was a downright poor tackler when he came in. Now he is one of the best in the league.

He didn't win player of the year in Brazil by just being a tidy player. He may not be Alonso, but he does have a good passing range. In particular his through balls are of very high quality. He's been playing within himself, generally picking the safest option at all times, for most of his career in England, but I think we saw his talent emerging in the second half of last season. Much more incisive and ambitious passing, more drive and engine. Still needs to work on his shooting and has yet to get his first header on target in the prem. But he is more than just a tidy player and his potential as a player goes a fair bit beyond that.

He's spent his first years in England picking up the skills you need to be a succesful midfielder in England. Tackling, positional sense, ball retention, upper body strength, stamina. These were his weakest points when he came here and essential for the role he was being asked to play. Now they are among his strongest. Up to himself now to show what made him a player in Brazil.
 
Many will remember my previous criticisms of Anderson, but I must admit that it does look like he has improved. He played well in the home matches of the last few months of last season, and it appears he has continued this good form coming into the new season.

I still believe that his fitness levels are unacceptable, and there is still much naïveté in his play. But I am encouraged by the improvement.
 
He didn't win player of the year in Brazil by just being a tidy player.

2006- Lucas

2007- Thiago Neves (who?)

2008- Rogério Ceni (who? oh that's right, this guy:


25014.jpg


point made.
 
2006- Lucas

2007- Thiago Neves (who?)

2008- Rogério Ceni (who? oh that's right, this guy:


25014.jpg


point made.

and before that:

2005 : Carlos Tévez (Corinthians)
2004 : Robinho (Santos)
2003 : Alex (Cruzeiro)
2002 : Kaká (São Paulo)
 
and before that:

2005 : Carlos Tévez (Corinthians)
2004 : Robinho (Santos)
2003 : Alex (Cruzeiro)
2002 : Kaká (São Paulo)

And your point is?

Mine was obvious, below average players have also won that award so your "he didn't win BPOTY just by being a tidy player" actually means feck all.

No doubt good players have won it too, but that list is actually funny, KAKA, ALEX, ROBINHO, TEVEZ...... wait for it......

Lucas
Neves
Ceni

A lull in Brazilian football by any chance?


:lol::lol:
 
I think people are forgetting that Lucas was a different player before he came to England. Far more of a playmaker, box-to-box. He was asked to change his role into that of a holding player, one of the most tactically demanding for a young player to fulfil, and obviously struggled for some time in transition. Lucas was a downright poor tackler when he came in. Now he is one of the best in the league.

He didn't win player of the year in Brazil by just being a tidy player. He may not be Alonso, but he does have a good passing range. In particular his through balls are of very high quality. He's been playing within himself, generally picking the safest option at all times, for most of his career in England, but I think we saw his talent emerging in the second half of last season. Much more incisive and ambitious passing, more drive and engine. Still needs to work on his shooting and has yet to get his first header on target in the prem. But he is more than just a tidy player and his potential as a player goes a fair bit beyond that.

He's spent his first years in England picking up the skills you need to be a succesful midfielder in England. Tackling, positional sense, ball retention, upper body strength, stamina. These were his weakest points when he came here and essential for the role he was being asked to play. Now they are among his strongest. Up to himself now to show what made him a player in Brazil.

Absolute nonsense.

He was heralded as the next Gilberto Silva in Brazil, which is why I used that comparison. Having watched Lucas for a few years in the flesh I can see why he was given that moniker.

You're just trying to deceive people now because you know they won't have seen much of him in Brazil (much like yourself).
 
I definitely feel a lot more comfortable reading Liverpool fans over-rating their own players than I do when United players were doing it about one of our own.

The balance in the force has been restored.

you won't be comfortable when Lucas bullies your midfield once again to leave you trailing in the league.


 
"great"... feck off!

He did well(ish) in a shite team.

"Great"... feck me, if he was great, what were Kevin Nolan and Joey Barton? :rolleyes:

Shite compared to Lucas.

Lucas had a great year last year. A very very good year. He's better than Parker, Adam, Barton, Nolan etc etc etc whoever those players are. He's very very good.
 

Level 3 football? Is that that sad RAWK thing about Rafa's masterplan?

It's a Liverpool blog, so it's immediately got a gay angle to make Lucas look good, but I scanned it anyway.

A wall of badly linked wall of text about Brazilian volantes. Or steering wheels as it calls them (sounds suspiciously like another term for water carrier). A lot of talk about positioning and doing the simple things. Keeping it ticking over. More about what you don't do than what you do do. Little real evidence about what Lucas was like in Brazil, and more about other Brazilian players who people hoped he might become, but didn't and hasn't.

I don't think anyone is saying Lucas can't pass the ball. He can (though sometimes to the wrong team), but he's no playmaker.

Just like Gilberto Silva could pass the ball. That comparison actually used to flatter Lucas. Now it looks like he might reach that level.

He'll never go beyond it though.
 

This is true, it's easy to forget. Just as it is true that Anderson has had to adapt his game, Lucas has had to as well. And if Kraft doesn't make much of that, maybe a couple of words from Lucas himself might mean something:

"In Gremio I had carte blanche to go forward and participate more in the attacking plays. But things had to change when I arrived in Liverpool, where I am used much more as a holding midfielder. That transition took time and made settling in even more challenging.

I don't think it's unfair to say Anderson had to make a more radical transition, though. And I don't think it's outrageous he's had a rougher ride in terms of competition (in the last couple of years at least, the key years for Lucas) and injuries.
 
feck me....

B9 makes Lucas sound like a top notch footballer, not Lucas Leiva.

Decent enough footballer, similar to Darren Fletcher. Never has benn and never will be as talented as Anderson. However, Lucas, in the last season, made more of the talent given to him thsn Anderson has done over the last 2-3 season.

But, Anderson could be twice the player Lucas can ever dream of becoming. IF he fullfills his promise.
 
feck me....

B9 makes Lucas sound like a top notch footballer, not Lucas Leiva.

Decent enough footballer, similar to Darren Fletcher. Never has benn and never will be as talented as Anderson. However, Lucas, in the last season, made more of the talent given to him thsn Anderson has done over the last 2-3 season.

But, Anderson could be twice the player Lucas can ever dream of becoming. IF he fullfills his promise.

Lucas is similar to Fletcher (whom I rate), could become a better player, though perhaps Fletcher could/should have become a better player than what he is as well.

Anderson could be better than both, has a bigger mountain to climb before he is though.
 
No one hypes run-of-the-mill footballers like a Scouser.

An average, hard working honest pro suddenly turns world class in the eyes of the scousers. If he plays for Liverpool, that is.

Fans of all teams do this, United fans too. But no one does it en-masse as Liverpool supporters.
 
I think the only one who has used the word world class so far is you, cnut.

You are being very hyperbolic about other people's hyperbole.
 
Lucas is similar to Fletcher (whom I rate), could become a better player, though perhaps Fletcher could/should have become a better player than what he is as well.

Anderson could be better than both, has a bigger mountain to climb before he is though.

Not sure why there's been so much disagreement coming my way when this is basically my view.
 
I think the only one who has used the word world class so far is you, cnut.

You are being very hyperbolic about other people's hyperbole.

The way you described him above, you could just as well daved yoursel the short essay and written "Lucas is a top notch footballer".
 
Not sure why there's been so much disagreement coming my way when this is basically my view.

The way you described him above, you could just as well daved yoursel the short essay and written "Lucas is a top notch footballer".

I would have gone with "the best is yet to come."

Basically, Krafty, my main disagreement is in regards to Lucas' ceiling as a player. I think he has a fair bit more in his locker than Gilberto Silva.
 
I would have gone with "the best is yet to come."

Basically, Krafty, my main disagreement is in regards to Lucas' ceiling as a player. I think he has a fair bit more in his locker than Gilberto Silva.

Gilberto played a key role for successful, title winning teams. I don't think Lucas will.
 
Lucas is similar to Fletcher (whom I rate), could become a better player, though perhaps Fletcher could/should have become a better player than what he is as well.

Anderson could be better than both, has a bigger mountain to climb before he is though.

That is something I fully agree with.
 
I think the only one who has used the word world class so far is you, cnut.

You are being very hyperbolic about other people's hyperbole.

So far you've claimed he'd walk into any other P.L team, that he's better than Mascherano and given us a description of his passing and creativity that made him sound like a cross between Xavi and Zidane.

We're really just waiting for you to claim that he's the best footballer in the world ever.
 
In answer to Afro, I'd take Anderson because I'm more interested in the future than the past and because he is our player.