Anderson Vs Lucas

It was quite interesting reading through the Anderson thread, & taking note of a lot of the comments from United fans regarding the lad. This is just one of the many negative remarks after his performance against Arsenal a few months ago - 'Anderson in having a stinker away from home shocker. I really don't understand why he keep getting games away from home. I'd sooner have O'Shea in the middle' - That's not an isolated post, because there is a theme going back over 18 months in regards to his 'hot & cold' style of consistency. The thing that caught my eye though, is that there was a criticism from quite a few regarding his passing ability. Then after his 2 goals against Schalke, someone joked that The Germans must be shite if Anderson can score against them. So it got me thinking. If his passing ain't up to scratch, & he's not a prolific goalscorer ?. What exactly is it that constitutes the hype that some people on here seem to lap up ?

A lot of Manchester United fans have expressed their concerns over the past 2 or 3 seasons regarding the apparent weakness in the midfield area. Yet this is the area where your man is supposed to be making his own. I'd even go as far as saying that United's successes in recent years have come about, in spite of, as opposed to, because of, your midfield. Far too often, the attackers have bailed out your midfielders, in fact some of them could be accused of riding on the back of people like Giggs, Rooney, Hernandez, Nani, Berbatov, along with a solid back-four.

We paid a very modest fee for Lucas. In return, our expectations were very modest. Therefore, despite a turbulent couple of years in which the club has gone through something of a nightmare, he's come through, & more than exceeded expectations. In short, it was £5.5 million well spent. & unlike Anderson, Lucas has never really had the luxury over the past 18 months or so, of playing alongside players such as those mentioned above. That said, I'm very confident that with a settled management structure now in place, & better players around him. Lucas has it in him to take his game up another level. I suppose the big question is though. Will we be here in 12 months time talking about Anderson's potential, & saying how he 'could be' a great player ?. Or will the lad finally take advantage of the many great things he has going for him at Old Trafford, & become the player that so many on here want him to be - Whatever people might think of the differing levels of ability between the 2 players. Lucas has won the strength of character stakes hands down. It's now up to Anderson to show he's got the bottle to take on one of the toughest jobs in the world.

The standards are very high at United. We play to win the title and are regularly in the late stages of the Champions League.

It's a big difference to Liverpool where you're no longer a European side, and players who fail in the Europa League are accepted and praised.

Lucas is an inconsistent player lacking in real natural ability, yet he is lauded by Liverpool fans and held up as a poster boy when everything else is shit.

Judging by that I can only assume that Anderson would have been deified at Anfield by now.

He'll not have it so easy here. The matchday Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime should never be used as a sample for anything though. Catch them at the wrong time and they'll be calling for Vidic and Rooney to be sold.
 
Taking red cafe posters opinions on our players is well.... retarded. Half of the feckers on here haven't got the first clue about football, some of them still wanted/want rid of Nani and think he's still inconsistent, in fact my fave ever redcafe retard post was a claim that Nani, despite scoring or creating a goal in pretty much every game he played for 10 months was "inconsistent within the game" :lol:

Many (like Pogue) took forever to rate Ronaldo.

Many redcafe posters think Sneijder wouldn't improve us.

That O'Shea comment is typical of the match day caftards, completely unquestionably retarded.

etc etc.

As for "strength of character"... that's also a crock of shite, Anderson has come through a broken leg and a ruptured cruciate ligament as well as coming through an injury caused by a serious car accident. In the biggest test of his career his did this:
view-image.php

Well said.
 
The standards are very high at United. We play to win the title and are regularly in the late stages of the Champions League.

It's a big difference to Liverpool where you're no longer a European side, and players who fail in the Europa League are accepted and praised.

Lucas is an inconsistent player lacking in real natural ability, yet he is lauded by Liverpool fans and held up as a poster boy when everything else is shit.

Judging by that I can only assume that Anderson would have been deified at Anfield by now.

He'll not have it so easy here. The matchday Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime should never be used as a sample for anything though. Catch them at the wrong time and they'll be calling for Vidic and Rooney to be sold.

It wasn't just the matchday Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime that were questioning Anderson's contribution. One poster referred to a match at Anfield in the 2007/08 season & claimed that your man had dominated proceedings. Pogue pointed out that Liverpool had 69% possession during the game, & it was your defence that dominated things. It says something though that people have to bring up individual games to defend a player supposed capabilities - You've played down Lucas's role as nothing more than a water-carrier, & you've mocked the fact that he was selected for Brazil ahead of Anderson. What seems to have escaped you, is that he was selected on merit, regardless of whatever qualities the team & manager possess. You constantly refer to Lucas's 'failings' in the Europa League & in certain league matches. Yet you don't give any credence to the fact that he's had vastly inferior players around him in comparison to Anderson, not to mention the turmoil involving change of owners, managers, etc.

A few individuals on here feel it's mainly opposition fans talking out of there arses with regards to Anderson. But when your own supporters have differing opinions as to his credibility & importance to Manchester United. & when he can't force his way into a very poor national side. Don't you feel that maybe you might just be over-hyping him a little bit too much, based on what he's done thus far, & considering the advantages he has playing with lots of talented players around him ?. Because if he's not constantly playing killer through balls, or bailing out the forwards with lung-bursting late runs into the box & scoring last minute winners. What exactly is his purpose then ?
 
It wasn't just the matchday Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime that were questioning Anderson's contribution. One poster referred to a match at Anfield in the 2007/08 season & claimed that your man had dominated proceedings. Pogue pointed out that Liverpool had 69% possession during the game, & it was your defence that dominated things. It says something though that people have to bring up individual games to defend a player supposed capabilities - You've played down Lucas's role as nothing more than a water-carrier, & you've mocked the fact that he was selected for Brazil ahead of Anderson. What seems to have escaped you, is that he was selected on merit, regardless of whatever qualities the team & manager possess. You constantly refer to Lucas's 'failings' in the Europa League & in certain league matches. Yet you don't give any credence to the fact that he's had vastly inferior players around him in comparison to Anderson, not to mention the turmoil involving change of owners, managers, etc.

A few individuals on here feel it's mainly opposition fans talking out of there arses with regards to Anderson. But when your own supporters have differing opinions as to his credibility & importance to Manchester United. & when he can't force his way into a very poor national side. Don't you feel that maybe you might just be over-hyping him a little bit too much, based on what he's done thus far, & considering the advantages he has playing with lots of talented players around him ?. Because if he's not constantly playing killer through balls, or bailing out the forwards with lung-bursting late runs into the box & scoring last minute winners. What exactly is his purpose then ?

Don't you think you lot might be overrating Lucas?

You won't find many United fans who think Anderson has been anywhere near as good as he could be, or has done enough over the last 2-3 seasons.

What most United fans are saying though, is that the lad has bags of talent, and if the club manages to make him fullfil his talent, we have a hell of a player on our hands.
 
A few individuals on here feel it's mainly opposition fans talking out of there arses with regards to Anderson. But when your own supporters have differing opinions as to his credibility & importance to Manchester United. & when he can't force his way into a very poor national side. Don't you feel that maybe you might just be over-hyping him a little bit too much, based on what he's done thus far, & considering the advantages he has playing with lots of talented players around him ?. Because if he's not constantly playing killer through balls, or bailing out the forwards with lung-bursting late runs into the box & scoring last minute winners. What exactly is his purpose then ?

BY claiming he's better than fecking Lucas? :lol::lol:

oh yeah, massive over-hype! You funny feckers, it's hardly like we're comparing him to Sneijder or Xavi or even Gerrard is it? :lol:
 
BY claiming he's better than fecking Lucas? :lol::lol:

oh yeah, massive over-hype! You funny feckers, it's hardly like we're comparing him to Sneijder or Xavi or even Gerrard is it? :lol:

Putting laughter smileys in your post doesn't strengthen your argument, it just hides the fact that you don't have it in you to answer the other points I've raised. You're like Krafty in that respect, in that you turn to mockery & ridicule when you can't come up with an answer.
 
Putting laughter smileys in your post doesn't strengthen your argument, it just hides the fact that you don't have it in you to answer the other points I've raised. You're like Krafty in that respect, in that you turn to mockery & ridicule when you can't come up with an answer.

Yep, I ridicule anyone that says "saying said player is better than Lucas is over-rating him"...

it's Lucas for god sake, don't you see the irony of you comment?
 
What exactly is his purpose then ?

Anderson at his best is a box-to-box midfielder. Has the strength and quickness to win the ball, has the rare ability for central midfielders these days to run with the ball - attacking the opposition's back four, there is nothing more defenders hate, he has the ability to pick his run to get into the box, and he has the ability to pick out passes and to play short and long.

His finishing is rubbish though, and his passing lack consistency and his positioning has to become more disciplined.
 
You know what, I think redman is on a WUM or talking for the sake of it.... If seen delusion but this is new heights.

You went through an anderson thread, cherry picked a few posts (didn't even link to the post/posters in question which is easy enough to do), and thought this would strengthen your argument?

Aside from that, you felt the need to do this? Leads me to believe you haven't really seen much of the lad... you either know what you're talking about (and should be able to argue your point better than you have so far) or you don't, which is it?

You could pick a poster that agrees with any position possible such is the diversity of this forum, are we really saying 'such and such agrees with me so I must be right', you saw the question I posted earlier right? Not one poster said they'd swap Anderson for Lucas... /end
 
It wasn't just the matchday Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime that were questioning Anderson's contribution. One poster referred to a match at Anfield in the 2007/08 season & claimed that your man had dominated proceedings. Pogue pointed out that Liverpool had 69% possession during the game, & it was your defence that dominated things. It says something though that people have to bring up individual games to defend a player supposed capabilities - You've played down Lucas's role as nothing more than a water-carrier, & you've mocked the fact that he was selected for Brazil ahead of Anderson. What seems to have escaped you, is that he was selected on merit, regardless of whatever qualities the team & manager possess. You constantly refer to Lucas's 'failings' in the Europa League & in certain league matches. Yet you don't give any credence to the fact that he's had vastly inferior players around him in comparison to Anderson, not to mention the turmoil involving change of owners, managers, etc.

A few individuals on here feel it's mainly opposition fans talking out of there arses with regards to Anderson. But when your own supporters have differing opinions as to his credibility & importance to Manchester United. & when he can't force his way into a very poor national side. Don't you feel that maybe you might just be over-hyping him a little bit too much, based on what he's done thus far, & considering the advantages he has playing with lots of talented players around him ?. Because if he's not constantly playing killer through balls, or bailing out the forwards with lung-bursting late runs into the box & scoring last minute winners. What exactly is his purpose then ?

That's pretty much exactly what he does when he's on form. Not always on form though, for obvious reasons.

Young, often injured central midfielder in not always being on-form shocker.

I rate you lot are shitting it after seeing Nani turn into a world beater, and are scared Anderson will do the same. ;)
 
That's pretty much exactly what he does when he's on form. Not always on form though, for obvious reasons.

Young, often injured central midfielder in not always being on-form shocker.

I rate you lot are shitting it after seeing Nani turn into a world beater, and are scared Anderson will do the same. ;)
They probably haven't seen that either.
 
Yeh, it's gone under the radar a bit for some reason. Charlie Adam and Scott Parker got more media praise last year, despite Nani being 50 times the player of both combined.

It's a bit weird, actually. Nani's been absolutely top class for 18 months now, barring the period towards the end of last season. I must admit, there was a period whereby I wasn't too sure he'd fulfil his potential (before that 10/10 performance against Hull in January the season before last), but he's some player now.
 
Redman5 is correct in his argument that lucas has been better value for money. That's not really the issue here though. We're talking about who's the better player.

The "strength of character" angle is nonsense though. Playing for a weaker side and avoiding long term injuries means lucas has played a lot more football than Anderson. That's a far more important reason for the difference in their rates of progression than any hypothetical differences in their mindset. Besides, every single time Anderson does get a run out he's playing for a side where anything other than a win is failure and extremely high standards is expected from everyone in the shirt, or you may not play again for months.

THAT'S a proper test of mental strength. Not playing for a team that's floundering around in the UEFA places, when he can play game after game - without any real pressure - for a side that everyone wrote off a long time ago.
 
It wasn't just the matchday Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime that were questioning Anderson's contribution. One poster referred to a match at Anfield in the 2007/08 season & claimed that your man had dominated proceedings. Pogue pointed out that Liverpool had 69% possession during the game, & it was your defence that dominated things. It says something though that people have to bring up individual games to defend a player supposed capabilities - You've played down Lucas's role as nothing more than a water-carrier, & you've mocked the fact that he was selected for Brazil ahead of Anderson. What seems to have escaped you, is that he was selected on merit, regardless of whatever qualities the team & manager possess. You constantly refer to Lucas's 'failings' in the Europa League & in certain league matches. Yet you don't give any credence to the fact that he's had vastly inferior players around him in comparison to Anderson, not to mention the turmoil involving change of owners, managers, etc.

A few individuals on here feel it's mainly opposition fans talking out of there arses with regards to Anderson. But when your own supporters have differing opinions as to his credibility & importance to Manchester United. & when he can't force his way into a very poor national side. Don't you feel that maybe you might just be over-hyping him a little bit too much, based on what he's done thus far, & considering the advantages he has playing with lots of talented players around him ?. Because if he's not constantly playing killer through balls, or bailing out the forwards with lung-bursting late runs into the box & scoring last minute winners. What exactly is his purpose then ?


Seeing as the views of RedCafe posters seem to be so central to your argument, perhaps we should do a proper analysis, rather than cherry picking isolated examples which suit your argument.

The MOTM poll on here usually gives a good indicator of how people think the player has done. Last year Anderson started 22 games. In 13 of those games he was voted in the top four of the MOTM poll. In 5 of them he was voted the best player on the pitch. Data courtesy of Top's website - motm.tk (good job btw Top).

So roughly half the time he starts he's one of the best players on the pitch, and roughly a quarter of the time he starts he's the single best United player on the pitch. Now, as you quite rightly say, he's playing with a team of highly talented and successful players who won the league and reached the CL final last season, so if he's regularly amongst the best performers in such a side surely he deserves a lot of credit for that.

Sure, if you were really sad and bitter you could search the archives for a bad game he's had and cherry pick some responses to his performance (as you did with the Arsenal game for example, one of his few bad games from last season), but this gives a much better reflection over the course of an entire season, and it also reflects the views of a large number of fans rather than a few isolated examples.
 
You know what, I think redman is on a WUM or talking for the sake of it.... If seen delusion but this is new heights.

You went through an anderson thread, cherry picked a few posts (didn't even link to the post/posters in question which is easy enough to do), and thought this would strengthen your argument?

Aside from that, you felt the need to do this? Leads me to believe you haven't really seen much of the lad... you either know what you're talking about (and should be able to argue your point better than you have so far) or you don't, which is it?

You could pick a poster that agrees with any position possible such is the diversity of this forum, are we really saying 'such and such agrees with me so I must be right', you saw the question I posted earlier right? Not one poster said they'd swap Anderson for Lucas... /end

I am merely a disciple of truth, enlightenment, & education. I seek to bring light to those who fester in the darkness of their own ignorance. I offer food for thought to the starving individuals who exist on a meagre diet of delusion & denial.

My work is all but done on this thread, for I see a new challenge looming on the horizon.

Coming to football forum near you soon: Enrique >> Evra
 
Taking red cafe posters opinions on our players is well.... retarded. Half of the feckers on here haven't got the first clue about football, some of them still wanted/want rid of Nani and think he's still inconsistent, in fact my fave ever redcafe retard post was a claim that Nani, despite scoring or creating a goal in pretty much every game he played for 10 months was "inconsistent within the game" :lol:

Many (like Pogue) took forever to rate Ronaldo.

Many redcafe posters think Sneijder wouldn't improve us.

That O'Shea comment is typical of the match day caftards, completely unquestionably retarded.

etc etc.

As for "strength of character"... that's also a crock of shite, Anderson has come through a broken leg and a ruptured cruciate ligament as well as coming through an injury caused by a serious car accident. In the biggest test of his career his did this:

view-image.php

Love that.
 
I am merely a disciple of truth, enlightenment, & education. I seek to bring light to those who fester in the darkness of their own ignorance. I offer food for thought to the starving individuals who exist on a meagre diet of delusion & denial.

My work is all but done on this thread, for I see a new challenge looming on the horizon.

Coming to football forum near you soon: Enrique >> Evra

Suppose you lot need something to grasp on to, nowadays.

I don't know what I'd be doing if my team started signing the likes of Henderson and Downing for obscene prices, then thinking it was a good thing.
 
I am merely a disciple of truth, enlightenment, & education. I seek to bring light to those who fester in the darkness of their own ignorance. I offer food for thought to the starving individuals who exist on a meagre diet of delusion & denial.

My work is all but done on this thread, for I see a new challenge looming on the horizon.

Coming to football forum near you soon: Enrique >> Evra

In case Enrique would play better than Evra, then we'd just put Fabio on and everything goes back to normal :)
 
I am merely a disciple of truth, enlightenment, & education. I seek to bring light to those who fester in the darkness of their own ignorance. I offer food for thought to the starving individuals who exist on a meagre diet of delusion & denial.

My work is all but done on this thread, for I see a new challenge looming on the horizon.

Coming to football forum near you soon: Enrique >> Evra

I.e., 'I've been rumbled... I'm off'
 
Suppose you lot need something to grasp on to, nowadays.

I don't know what I'd be doing if my team started signing the likes of Henderson and Downing for obscene prices, then thinking it was a good thing.

To be fair, Liverpool are doing a pretty good job of weakening their mid-table rivals.

They might have made 5 Aston Villa level signings, all in one summer, but 7th place is almost nailed on now.

Priorities.
 
I am merely a disciple of truth, enlightenment, & education. I seek to bring light to those who fester in the darkness of their own ignorance. I offer food for thought to the starving individuals who exist on a meagre diet of delusion & denial.

My work is all but done on this thread, for I see a new challenge looming on the horizon.

Coming to football forum near you soon: Enrique >> Evra


You are actually admitting your bias here. You'd never have argued Enrique > Evra this time last year, despite Enrique being a good player. But he comes to Liverpool, and now he's superior. Well fecking done.


I'm waiting for the retarded justification.
 
Taking red cafe posters opinions on our players is well.... retarded. Half of the feckers on here haven't got the first clue about football, some of them still wanted/want rid of Nani and think he's still inconsistent, in fact my fave ever redcafe retard post was a claim that Nani, despite scoring or creating a goal in pretty much every game he played for 10 months was "inconsistent within the game" :lol:

Many (like Pogue) took forever to rate Ronaldo.

Many redcafe posters think Sneijder wouldn't improve us.

That O'Shea comment is typical of the match day caftards, completely unquestionably retarded.

etc etc.

As for "strength of character"... that's also a crock of shite, Anderson has come through a broken leg and a ruptured cruciate ligament as well as coming through an injury caused by a serious car accident. In the biggest test of his career his did this:

view-image.php
Spot on.
 
I am merely a disciple of truth, enlightenment, & education. I seek to bring light to those who fester in the darkness of their own ignorance. I offer food for thought to the starving individuals who exist on a meagre diet of delusion & denial.

My work is all but done on this thread, for I see a new challenge looming on the horizon.

Coming to football forum near you soon: Enrique >> Evra

Another quest you're going to fail miserably at?

Bring it on.
 
Clearly a WUM, but not the worst.
Even the 5 in his username smells of WUM.
 
He's certainly started the season well.
 
Still looks too much like Raven Symone to be a proper footballer though.
 
Well, I always thought comparing Lucas and Anderson in terms of potential and actual ability, and the probability of becoming a top performer in midfield was a no-go. Lucas, for all hus usefulness, hard work and ability to break up play, is never going to be on that upper echelon of central midfielders.

He is too limited a player for that, although he does what he does quite well. Anderson has the tools to become a top class central midfielder. His stamina has improved, and his decision making on the ball, which means he's running games from CM which we've seen so far.

He's getting more dangerous in front of goal, he's looking a bigger threat in the final third, and his passing has been much better without necesarilly losing that invention in the process. He's been a huge part of our newfound style of play so far this season, and he's only going to get better.

A season as absolute first choice will do wonders for him, and with his drive and bite, which was apparent even when he wasn't playing like he is now, he was always going to be a star for us when he put everything together.

It's true though that Lucas so far in his career has been better value for money, and has performed better in total. However, he's close to his ceiling as a player, while Anderson is just starting to climb the wall.
 
Anderson is a much better footballer than Lucas, if any Liverpool fan can't see that now there is no hope for them. It's always been apparent, but Lucas' improvement, and consistent solid displays were clouding the opinion of some, while Anderson was still being erratic. Now that Anderson is being consistent with his performances, it's an absolute no brainer.
 
Let's wait and see Anderson consistently perform for half a season before we make the comparison.

Have to say though if he keeps this up there really is no contest.
 
I am proud that my slagging off of Anderson appears to have resulted in his performance levels increasing by about 400% thus far.

Thankfully, I also derided Ashley Young's signing as a being a bit "meh" & thought Jones was a bit of a big lump & only hyped cos he was English.

I know my shit. I should apply to sit beside that Northie cnut on MOTD2.