Anderson Vs Lucas

Erm... Yes? Isn't that obvious?

Fergie rotates enough that no one player keeps any other out but if Giggs wasn't still capable of playing better than the vast majority of creative central midfielders in the league - even at 38 - chances are Anderson would have started more games.

Tomorrow's lesson. Where bears are most likely to shit.

Giggs has aged well and everything, and is by no means a poor player, but he wouldn't get into Arsenal's midfield, and we finished 4th.

Anderson has been underwhelming since he joined the club, I don't see how that's deniable. Stating that Giggs is so amazing that it'd be very difficult for anyone to get in to the team ahead of him is a bit deluded to be honest.
 
Giggs has aged well and everything, and is by no means a poor player, but he wouldn't get into Arsenal's midfield, and we finished 4th.

Anderson has been underwhelming since he joined the club, I don't see how that's deniable. Stating that Giggs is so amazing that it'd be very difficult for anyone to get in to the team ahead of him is a bit deluded to be honest.

Of course he would. Denilson made 60 frigging appearances for your lot in the last two seasons. The exact same amount as Giggs made for us. I know who's been the better player for their respective club.
 
Didn't we beat Arsenal with a midfield consisting of 3 defenders and Darren Gibson? Says it all.
 
Of course he would. Denilson made 60 frigging appearances for your lot in the last two seasons. The exact same amount as Giggs made for us. I know who's been the better player for their respective club.

Giggs plays in your biggest games. Denilson never got into our first choice midfield.
 
Giggs has aged well and everything, and is by no means a poor player, but he wouldn't get into Arsenal's midfield, and we finished 4th.

Anderson has been underwhelming since he joined the club, I don't see how that's deniable. Stating that Giggs is so amazing that it'd be very difficult for anyone to get in to the team ahead of him is a bit deluded to be honest.

It's a bit difficult to get into the team when you're injured. Anderson has been pretty unlucky with injuries over the last couple of years, and when you're out injured or recovering from long term injuries I think it is pretty hard to displace Giggs.

The way you're talking about Giggs is the only deluded thing here. He has quite simply been one of the best performers in the league for two years. If he doesn't quite make the Arsenal team on paper, he certainly has them beat all hands down in terms of consistency and doing it when it matters.
 
I think Giggs now would be comparable to Rosicky in terms of how he'd feature for us. He wouldn't be getting in ahead of Song, Wilshere and Fabregas, that's a given. And no doubt Ramsey would be higher in the pecking order now, at least if it's just due to the fact he's younger and there for a view to the future.

But if Diaby and Rosicky can continue to get games for us I don't see how Giggs wouldn't.
 
It's a bit difficult to get into the team when you're injured. Anderson has been pretty unlucky with injuries over the last couple of years, and when you're out injured or recovering from long term injuries I think it is pretty hard to displace Giggs.

The way you're talking about Giggs is the only deluded thing here. He has quite simply been one of the best performers in the league for two years. If he doesn't quite make the Arsenal team on paper, he certainly has them beat all hands down in terms of consistency and doing it when it matters.

I appreciate the injuries, and that must have held him back a bit. But there does come a point when you wonder if he'll ever make it. There's also the issue of application - didn't he write off a car last year?

Personally, I don't believe Giggs has been a high performer for a couple of years now. He's had the odd outstanding game, and he's valuable as he's got incredible experience. But he's been outshone by the underrated players in your side(Carrick as one) but the media have preferred to just go mental about how Giggs has aged like a fine wine.
 
Didn't we beat Arsenal with a midfield consisting of 3 defenders and Darren Gibson? Says it all.

And a midfield of Song (more or less pre his surge of form), Diaby and Denilson outplayed United's midfield at OT. It happens.
 
That would be because Giggs is excellent and Denilson is shite.

Your point?

Giggs ten years ago was a consistent 8/10. Now he's a consistent 6.5/10. What he does just seems more impressive because he's so old. I'm not disrespecting what he's done for United over the years at all, he's been excellent, but I think you're overrating his current contribution.
 
Personally, I don't believe Giggs has been a high performer for a couple of years now. He's had the odd outstanding game, and he's valuable as he's got incredible experience. But he's been outshone by the underrated players in your side

What a load of old cack - he's been absolutely quality the last couple of years.
 
I think Giggs now would be comparable to Rosicky in terms of how he'd feature for us. He wouldn't be getting in ahead of Song, Wilshere and Fabregas, that's a given. And no doubt Ramsey would be higher in the pecking order now, at least if it's just due to the fact he's younger and there for a view to the future.

But if Diaby and Rosicky can continue to get games for us I don't see how Giggs wouldn't.

Looking at the season ahead, all bets are off. I think Giggs will feature a lot less, which is why Fergie is still in the market for another midfielder.

I also think Anderson will have a very good season. He was excellent in a lot of games last season and looks sharp in pre-season. If he can catch a break with injuries (no pun intended :nervous:) there's every chance this will be his proper breakthrough season (with his best years still ahead of him)
 
Giggs ten years ago was a consistent 8/10. Now he's a consistent 6.5/10. What he does just seems more impressive because he's so old. I'm not disrespecting what he's done for United over the years at all, he's been excellent, but I think you're overrating his current contribution.

Stop it, alastair, you're embarrassing yourself.

Did you stop watching the Champion's League last season when Arsenal went out on their arse?
 
I appreciate the injuries, and that must have held him back a bit. But there does come a point when you wonder if he'll ever make it. There's also the issue of application - didn't he write off a car last year?

Personally, I don't believe Giggs has been a high performer for a couple of years now. He's had the odd outstanding game, and he's valuable as he's got incredible experience. But he's been outshone by the underrated players in your side(Carrick as one) but the media have preferred to just go mental about how Giggs has aged like a fine wine.

Well then we can stop reading there and conclude that you just don't know what you're talking about.

Giggs has been consistently very good and often phenomenal. His performance against Chelsea in the CL was one of the very best you'll ever witness.

Comparisons with shite-bags like Rosicky and assorted Arsenal bottlers are ignorant and grossly disrespectful.
 
Giggs ten years ago was a consistent 8/10. Now he's a consistent 6.5/10. What he does just seems more impressive because he's so old. I'm not disrespecting what he's done for United over the years at all, he's been excellent, but I think you're overrating his current contribution.

Thats clearly bollocks though. As a central player hes been consistently class for a few years now. Whenever he's suffered from a real lack of form it's been from the left hand side.

As for the OP Lucas is currently the more reliable player. In terms of talent Anderson has a a big advantage, lets just.hope he can fullfill it.
 
Stop it, alastair, you're embarrassing yourself.

Did you stop watching the Champion's League last season when Arsenal went out on their arse?

I'll stop given I'm not going to get much agreement understandably on a United forum. If we're talking Giggs in the CL last season - group stage is neither here nor there. Marseille - nope, not excited. I saw Carrick completely dominate the midfield against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge. Schalke were so poor it's hard to even judge. Against Barcelona I was embarrassed watching it. I'm just saying how I saw it, from a neutralish point of view. I respect Giggs a lot, I just don't rate his performances over the last couple of years as highly as you do.
 
Gigg's form has always been up and down. The nature of the beast when you're talking about a player as creative as him. When he's good he's sublime, when he's bad he's gash. Luckily he's good more often than he's bad. In the last few seasons he's been used sparingly but comes up with the goods a lot more often than not. That "averaging 6.5/10" comment is one of the dumbest things I've read on here in ages.

Moving back on topic, here's hoping we see Anderson keeping up his pre-season form tonight. He's been great so far.
 
Well then we can stop reading there and conclude that you just don't know what you're talking about.

Giggs has been consistently very good and often phenomenal. His performance against Chelsea in the CL was one of the very best you'll ever witness.

Comparisons with shite-bags like Rosicky and assorted Arsenal bottlers are ignorant and grossly disrespectful.

His performance v Chelsea was not one of the very best I'll ever witness. What a load of bollocks :lol:

Agreed it's wrong to compare him to Rosicky, but then again, no-one ever did.
 
Giggs ten years ago was a consistent 8/10. Now he's a consistent 6.5/10. What he does just seems more impressive because he's so old. I'm not disrespecting what he's done for United over the years at all, he's been excellent, but I think you're overrating his current contribution.

Now, I'm not a big fan of the laughing smiley but...there's just nothing else that fits better here.

:lol:
 
Gigg's form has always been up and down. The nature of the beast when you're talking about a player as creative as him. When he's good he's sublime, when he's bad he's gash. Luckily he's good more often than he's bad. In the last few seasons he's been used sparingly but comes up with the goods a lot more often than not. That "averaging 6.5/10" comment is one of the dumbest things I've read on here in ages.

Moving back on topic, here's hoping we see Anderson keeping up his pre-season form tonight. He's been great so far.

Sometimes he's sublime, sometimes he's gash. Right.

So, using that logic. Sublime means 8 out of 10. Gash means 4 out of ten. We're averaging 6. Not quite so dumb.
 
We passed the ball round pointlessly against United (and lost!). Get the feck in!

Don't be a fecking dipstick. They were outplayed by those three, and if it wasn't for two hilarious individual mistakes Arsenal would have walked away comfortable victors. There's no arguing there. And that's not to mention that you're easily one of the most biased and dismissive posters on here, so I'd expect nothing objective or halfway insightful from you.

Anyway, my point was simply highlighting crappy midfields on paper/in name outplay 'better' midfields often enough.
 
His performance v Chelsea was not one of the very best I'll ever witness. What a load of bollocks :lol:

Agreed it's wrong to compare him to Rosicky, but then again, no-one ever did.

In terms of a player stepping up and performing, and making a huge impact, it's a prime example.

Talent and bottle, doing it when it matters. That's why Giggs gets the plaudits whilst your bottlers get nothing but derision.
 
Don't be a fecking dipstick. They were outplayed by those three, and if it wasn't for two hilarious individual mistakes Arsenal would have walked away comfortable victors. There's no arguing there.

Not to mention you're easily one of the most biased and dismissive posters on here, so I'd expect nothing objective or halfway insightful from you. Anyway, my point was simply highlighting crappy midfields on paper/in name outplay 'better' midfields often enough.

:lol:

i.e. if we weren't so shit, we would have won the game.

The same primary school logic can be applied to every game in history.

It's nothing about being objective or biased. You're being a melon.
 
Obviously Al is on a WUM as it's patently obvious Giggs is better than all their midfielders currently (with the exception of Fabregas)... however he does have a point that we expected Anderson to be further along in his development than he is right now... I still think he'll continue to improve though. He's only 23, not everyone is ready at 16 like Rooney.
 
Obviously Al is on a WUM as it's patently obvious Giggs is better than all their midfielders currently (with the exception of Fabregas)... however he does have a point that we expected Anderson to be further along in his development than he is right now... I still think he'll continue to improve though. He's only 23, not everyone is ready at 16 like Rooney.

Agree with all of that.

Looking at the season ahead, one thing I find really encouraging is the fact he got that fecking "can't score goals" monkey off his back. Took his chance in pre-season as calmly as you like. Would have snatched at it horribly not all that long ago.
 
Lucas has had the chance (and also has earned it tbh) to benefit from more playing time.All the talent in the world is nothing if at the end of the day for whatever possible reason you're not playing.
Right now, Lucas is definitely the better player.There is no doubt about that in my mind.
 
Christ almighty, I'll leave this thread for you lot to fester in your own delusion.

Arsenal fans calling United fans deluded....

Hi Kettle..... you're black.
 
Lucas has had the chance (and also has earned it tbh) to benefit from more playing time.All the talent in the world is nothing if at the end of the day for whatever possible reason you're not playing.
Right now, Lucas is definitely the better player.There is no doubt about that in my mind.

This is true. Right now and throughout last season, overall.

At his best last season, though, Anderson hit heights that Lucas has yet to match in his career.
 
I don't think that's true at all, Lucas has put in some very good performances against good opposition - Anderson has barely managed a consistent 90 minutes against anyone.
 
I don't think that's true at all, Lucas has put in some very good performances against good opposition - Anderson has barely managed a consistent 90 minutes against anyone.

Rubbish.

Anderson was consistantly very good -> brilliant at home all season. It's away he was utter dog shit.
 
Anderson simply has way more potential.

His career at United has just been on-off due to injuries and less chances.

He will come good this season.
 
For the first time I believe anderson is going to breakthrough this season
Its also the first season where I won't be surprised to see arsenal drop out of the top 4 (mostly due to citys financial doping but partly that I think wenger has lost it)
 
I absolutely agree that Lucas is the better player at the moment, and that overall he's a much better player than he's given credit for still by many United fans, but the crux of the matter is that Lucas reaching this level is a big success while if Anderson was at that level I think we'd still be expecting much more, and that's because Anderson's shown a level of quality in spurts that Lucas hasn't and (IMO) likely never will. He's potentially in a different class altogether. He's got the ability to dominate the midfield area, to be our midfield general, and he's absolutely got the on-pitch personality/attitude to become that player - he wants to influence the play. Lucas isn't that player, he's a 'water-carrier'. That's not to downplay his contribution, it's still an important role to play and one that demands a great level of discipline and intelligence and he's well on his way to establishing himself as an important player for club and country, but I still have every belief in Anderson that he can be the key midfielder in the team, the one midfielder that's constantly influencing the play and driving the team forward.

That said there's absolutely no denying Anderson hasn't progressed as we'd have liked or expected, whether that's primarily because of attitude, fitness or tactical problems is up for debate but it isn't because of a lack of quality. If he regularly picks up medium-long term injuries then yeah, he'll probably not develop into the player he can be. Or his attitude/tactical problems could lead to him just simply not making it with either a club as big as us or just our particular club. There's nothing unreasonable about having doubts about whether this may happen...but I just don't understand why opposition fans can't see his quality bubbling underneath, which is quite clear from the 'has done very little of note' and the 'talent yet to be seen outside Manchester' comments.

As for his slow development, what some even call a regression, I think there's some similarities to Rooney's development in recent years. He was seen as a 'better player' because he played with freedom, raw quality and he played on instinct, and when he was given a more structured, disciplined role many felt that he had stagnated, that he'd lost that creative spark that made him so brilliant and even went as far to say that 'we'd ruined him'. But his creative spark was there for all to see last season, that ability to dominate the play creatively was still there and it was all part of a long-term development plan to make him a more rounded player. It's obviously not an easy or quick transition.

I think we'll see the same with Anderson, once he gets the basics sorted in terms of midfield play he'll show his natural ability to be a creative force and a dominant player. I do think he's not given enough credit for improving some of his passing, positional and defensive game. In his first season he showed an eye for a difficult pass but he gave it away often and carelessly, and was closer to Giggs than any other player in terms of pass completion rate iirc. Now he has a very respectable rate of 83%, only one less than Fletcher for example. Added to that I don't know if it's just me but I think there's been real progression in his long passing game.