Anderson Vs Lucas

I absolutely agree that Lucas is the better player at the moment, and that overall he's a much better player than he's given credit for still by many United fans, but the crux of the matter is that Lucas reaching this level is a big success while if Anderson was at that level I think we'd still be expecting much more, and that's because Anderson's shown a level of quality in spurts that Lucas hasn't and (IMO) likely never will. He's potentially in a different class altogether. He's got the ability to dominate the midfield area, to be our midfield general, and he's absolutely got the on-pitch personality/attitude to become that player - he wants to influence the play. Lucas isn't that player, he's a 'water-carrier'. That's not to downplay his contribution, it's still an important role to play and one that demands a great level of discipline and intelligence and he's well on his way to establishing himself as an important player for club and country, but I still have every belief in Anderson that he can be the key midfielder in the team, the one midfielder that's constantly influencing the play and driving the team forward.

That said there's absolutely no denying Anderson hasn't progressed as we'd have liked or expected, whether that's primarily because of attitude, fitness or tactical problems is up for debate but it isn't because of a lack of quality. If he regularly picks up medium-long term injuries then yeah, he'll probably not develop into the player he can be. Or his attitude/tactical problems could lead to him just simply not making it with either a club as big as us or just our particular club. There's nothing unreasonable about having doubts about whether this may happen...but I just don't understand why opposition fans can't see his quality bubbling underneath, which is quite clear from the 'has done very little of note' and the 'talent yet to be seen outside Manchester' comments.

As for his slow development, what some even call a regression, I think there's some similarities to Rooney's development in recent years. He was seen as a 'better player' because he played with freedom, raw quality and he played on instinct, and when he was given a more structured, disciplined role many felt that he had stagnated, that he'd lost that creative spark that made him so brilliant and even went as far to say that 'we'd ruined him'. But his creative spark was there for all to see last season, that ability to dominate the play creatively was still there and it was all part of a long-term development plan to make him a more rounded player. It's obviously not an easy or quick transition.

I think we'll see the same with Anderson, once he gets the basics sorted in terms of midfield play he'll show his natural ability to be a creative force and a dominant player. I do think he's not given enough credit for improving some of his passing, positional and defensive game. In his first season he showed an eye for a difficult pass but he gave it away often and carelessly, and was closer to Giggs than any other player in terms of pass completion rate iirc. Now he has a very respectable rate of 83%, only one less than Fletcher for example. Added to that I don't know if it's just me but I think there's been real progression in his long passing game.

There's a lot of Schadenfreude when it comes to Anderson from oppo fans in my experience. You get the impression they're all praying for him to fail.

I think it stems from United fans over-egging it a little when Anderson did put some dominant displays in against their teams.

Since then they've been pretty much wishing him to fail and refusing to see the clear qualities he possesses.

Good post, btw. Fully agree.
 
Emperor's new clothes on King Tubby. He was an expensive buy who's done very little of note in 3 seasons and doesn't appear to have a position.
 
I believe we've overrated Anderson's performances against close rivals in recent times but the one time I thought he truly was worth the plaudits was when we beat Arsenal 4-0 in the FA CUP.

He was sensational and it's those heights Lucas doesn't have the ability to reach.

The game vs Arsenal at the Emirates and at Anfield though was totally overhyped imo and it hasn't done him any favours with the pressure and expectations.
 
Dunno why you lot bother, these lot are obviously on the windup, if I hadn't seen some of them post before I'd mistake them retarded Scholseys (the former caf poster).... Just ignore them and let Anderson do the talking, he's looking really up for it so far this pre-season. I'm expecting big things....
 
Emperor's new clothes on King Tubby. He was an expensive buy who's done very little of note in 3 seasons and doesn't appear to have a position.

Hello Pete, long time no chat.... still at it I see ;)
 
There's a lot of Schadenfreude when it comes to Anderson from oppo fans in my experience. You get the impression they're all praying for him to fail.

I think it stems from United fans over-egging it a little when Anderson did put some dominant displays in against their teams.

Since then they've been pretty much wishing him to fail and refusing to see the clear qualities he possesses.

Good post, btw. Fully agree.

Schadenfreude is a trait of all football supporters when it comes to opposition players & teams. It's not a personal thing against Anderson per se, it's just that most people from outside OT take pleasure in anything negative relating to Manchester United. Just as you would when it comes to Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Arsenal, etc - & it's all very well people banging the drum about Anderson's 'obvious' qualities & potential. But until he starts showing them on a consistent basis, he'll be fair game, & easy pickings, for the 'schadenfreude' fraternity.....Of which there are many members.
 
Fair post rm5, truth is I haven't watched enough of Lucas to have much of an opinion. I reckon the same applies to the majority of oppo fans wrt Anderson...
 
I believe we've overrated Anderson's performances against close rivals in recent times but the one time I thought he truly was worth the plaudits was when we beat Arsenal 4-0 in the FA CUP.

He was sensational and it's those heights Lucas doesn't have the ability to reach.

The game vs Arsenal at the Emirates and at Anfield though was totally overhyped imo and it hasn't done him any favours with the pressure and expectations.

That was a ridiculous performance. Shame he's not quite kicked on from that, but there's still time.
 
There's a lot of Schadenfreude when it comes to Anderson from oppo fans in my experience. You get the impression they're all praying for him to fail.

I think it stems from United fans over-egging it a little when Anderson did put some dominant displays in against their teams.

Since then they've been pretty much wishing him to fail and refusing to see the clear qualities he possesses.

Good post, btw. Fully agree.

I want to see pretty much every player do well, just our players to do the best, and thus win. If Anderson has a storming season and wins POTY, fair play to him for that. He possesses some qualities, but they aren't revealed all that often, as far as I can tell. I'm certainly not praying that he'll fail though.
 
I want to see pretty much every player do well, just our players to do the best, and thus win. If Anderson has a storming season and wins POTY, fair play to him for that. He possesses some qualities, but they aren't revealed all that often, as far as I can tell. I'm certainly not praying that he'll fail though.

Anderson has a lot of qualities; the reason he doesn't reveal them all that often is because of the ridiculous inconsistency that has been his career to this date. Wonderful vision, very good dribbling, amazing strength on the ball, good pace (though it has definitely declined), pretty much unbeatable one on one unless Yaya Toure's on the pitch....

He's got so many attributes - his injury record is such a shame. This is obviously not to mention that some of his weaknesses are really fecking weak. It does my head in when he ambles round the centre circle when our defenders have the ball.
 
Personally, I think you're barking mad if you think Anderson hasnt developed since he's signed. His second season was an unfortunate one with the form of Giggs and Carrick and he had his injuries. The season after that he was just starting to hit a purple patch and got injured again against West Ham. Like I said, he's been unfortunate with the timing of his injuries.

Perhaps the end of last season was his best form in a United shirt. I watch him at times and I think to myself "you know what, we dont actually need a midfielder that desperately" I mean its clear for all to see we need some cover, but at the same time it will hinder Anderson's development, who I recognise as potentially the best midfielder in the league.
 
Schadenfreude is a trait of all football supporters when it comes to opposition players & teams. It's not a personal thing against Anderson per se, it's just that most people from outside OT take pleasure in anything negative relating to Manchester United. Just as you would when it comes to Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Arsenal, etc - & it's all very well people banging the drum about Anderson's 'obvious' qualities & potential. But until he starts showing them on a consistent basis, he'll be fair game, & easy pickings, for the 'schadenfreude' fraternity.....Of which there are many members.

Personally, I couldn't give a feck about someone like Lucas.

I'm pretty sure I've defended him on here when Liverpool fans were scapegoating him for the team's fortunes when actually it was a problem with the wider team and Benitez.

The Schadenfreude towards Anderson and indeed all our young talented players is particularly bitter though. We went through the same with Ronaldo and Nani.

"Oh he's shit, you should sell him first chance you get, get rid"

and much derision should they have so much as one bad game.

We've usually had the last laugh in these situations though. It will probably be the same with Anderson I reckon. And you'll all move onto our next young talent.

"He's shit, you should sell him" (before he becomes good)
 
Personally, I couldn't give a feck about someone like Lucas.

I'm pretty sure I've defended him on here when Liverpool fans were scapegoating him for the team's fortunes when actually it was a problem with the wider team and Benitez.

The Schadenfreude towards Anderson and indeed all our young talented players is particularly bitter though. We went through the same with Ronaldo and Nani.

"Oh he's shit, you should sell him first chance you get, get rid"

and much derision should they have so much as one bad game.

We've usually had the last laugh in these situations though. It will probably be the same with Anderson I reckon. And you'll all move onto our next young talent.

"He's shit, you should sell him" (before he becomes good)

lulz.

Never mind when your own supporters do it though.
 
Personally, I couldn't give a feck about someone like Lucas.

I'm pretty sure I've defended him on here when Liverpool fans were scapegoating him for the team's fortunes when actually it was a problem with the wider team and Benitez.

The Schadenfreude towards Anderson and indeed all our young talented players is particularly bitter though. We went through the same with Ronaldo and Nani.

"Oh he's shit, you should sell him first chance you get, get rid"

and much derision should they have so much as one bad game.

We've usually had the last laugh in these situations though. It will probably be the same with Anderson I reckon. And you'll all move onto our next young talent.

"He's shit, you should sell him" (before he becomes good)

You make it sound like it's only poor old Manchester United that suffer such indignity from opposition supporters. Like I said, it's quite common, not to say endemic, in the world of the average football fan to want to see, & take pleasure from failures at other clubs - A bit like yourself labeling the likes of Jordan Henderson as 'average' even before he's played a competitive match for Liverpool. At least with Anderson people have had 3 or 4 years to form their opinions. & the fact is, if any other club would have signed the lad, I seriously doubt you'd be waxing quite so lyrically over his supposed 'talents'.
 
You make it sound like it's only poor old Manchester United that suffer such indignity from opposition supporters. Like I said, it's quite common, not to say endemic, in the world of the average football fan to want to see, & take pleasure from failures at other clubs - A bit like yourself labeling the likes of Jordan Henderson as 'average' even before he's played a competitive match for Liverpool. At least with Anderson people have had 3 or 4 years to form their opinions. & the fact is, if any other club would have signed the lad, I seriously doubt you'd be waxing quite so lyrically over his supposed 'talents'.

You'd be pretty hard pressed to find posts here wishing failure on your young players. The likes of Lucas has been defended many times on here.

But go on a Liverpool forum like RAWK and virtually everyone is hoping our young players either fail or suffer some sort of career ending injury.

I don't think anyone is waxing lyrical about Anderson as he is right now. People are just hoping he can have a breakout year similar to what Nani and Ronaldo had, now the conditions seem right.
 
The Schadenfreude towards Anderson and indeed all our young talented players is particularly bitter though. We went through the same with Ronaldo and Nani.
No you get the same with the ones who are ridiculously over-hyped like Rafael of late and Evans, awhile back. You don't see anyone saying Smalling's crap do you?
 
No you get the same with the ones who are ridiculously over-hyped like Rafael of late and Evans, awhile back. You don't see anyone saying Smalling's crap do you?

Well no, just like nobody was saying Anderson or Evans were crap at the same point in their United careers. No doubt Smalling will go through a dip in form at some point and his impressive debut season will be instantly forgotten.

Of course, he may turn out to be one of those rare talents that goes from strength to strength. Not many players follow that trajectory though. The key is being able to identify the players with real potential, even if their development isn't as quick as fans would like, something which is particularly relevant when it comes to Anderson.
 
The point is that Smalling has already shown evidence of real quality and the others little or none. Yet we get ludicrously exaggerrated claims for the latter: Rafael 'best right back in the league', Anderson 'had Gerrard and Fabregas in his pocket'.
 
The point is that Smalling has already shown evidence of real quality and the others little or none. Yet we get ludicrously exaggerrated claims for the latter: Rafael 'best right back in the league', Anderson 'had Gerrard and Fabregas in his pocket'.

Um not ludicrous.......actually happenned, in the case of the dirtball that plays for Arsenal......more than once :)
 
So how did he perform yesterday? Wasnt able to watch the game :mad:
Will download it asap though. Just watched the highlights so far.
 
why does it matter how he performed yesterday?

We were playing a awful team. It certainly wouldn't add to the debate imo.

Wow cool there mrs. Messi. Since when is it wrong to ask how a player performed regardless of how shit the opposition was? A good pre-season is importnat imo and so far he hasn't done too shabby.
With him starting well into the new season I hope that this discussion can be closed soon enough.

Kept up his good form of the summer so far. One or two sumptuous passes and scored a slick goal.

Thanks Pogue. I just hope he can keep that form up for the start of the season.
 
Wow cool there mrs. Messi. Since when is it wrong to ask how a player performed regardless of how shit the opposition was? A good pre-season is importnat imo and so far he hasn't done too shabby.
With him starting well into the new season I hope that this discussion can be closed soon enough.

Aw, shucks!

You see, that's a tagline I'd be proud of.
 
The point is that Smalling has already shown evidence of real quality and the others little or none. Yet we get ludicrously exaggerrated claims for the latter: Rafael 'best right back in the league', Anderson 'had Gerrard and Fabregas in his pocket'.

The competition is so poor that's hardly so ludicrous. There's been literally no top right backs since Neville's demise.

It's not ludicrous to say a player had another in their pocket in an individual game either. It doesn't meant you think they're better than that player, merely that they got the better of them on that occasion.
 
The competition is so poor that's hardly so ludicrous. There's been literally no top right backs since Neville's demise.

It's not ludicrous to say a player had another in their pocket in an individual game either. It doesn't meant you think they're better than that player, merely that they got the better of them on that occasion.
Sagna's miles ahead of Rafael even bloody Johnson or Phil Neville is at this point. The two 'golden' games by King Tubby were one v Gerrard whre he didn't play head-to-head with him since Gerrard played high behind Torres, and one v Fabregas where he did OK for 45 mins blew up and got taken off as Fabregas scored and inspired Arsenal to a win.
 
Sagna's miles ahead of Rafael even bloody Johnson or Phil Neville is at this point. The two 'golden' games by King Tubby were one v Gerrard whre he didn't play head-to-head with him since Gerrard played high behind Torres, and one v Fabregas where he did OK for 45 mins blew up and got taken off as Fabregas scored and inspired Arsenal to a win.

Pretendy storey land.

Talking bollocks and telling lies.

Well done.
 
Yep we have to go back to 2007 to find one of Anderson's mega-performances (which wasn't all that).