Yup. A combination of bias and wishful thinking.
Lucas is not a special player.
A player whos best game comes in a derby, by running around the whole pitch, which will be adored by fans on the day, and be reason for threads like to be bumped.
Against lower quality sides, he will struggle to dominate, because it is not a derby game, and he is not that talented.
Average.
A player whos best game comes in a derby, by running around the whole pitch, which will be adored by fans on the day, and be reason for threads like to be bumped.
Against lower quality sides, he will struggle to dominate, because it is not a derby game, and he is not that talented.
Average.
Care to mention those games?
Having watched every Brazil match Anderson has featured in, I don't remember any where Lucas played "well".
But Lucas has been absolutely dire for Liverpool so far. One game doesn't suddenly prove him to be any different. It shows that he can be. But it's hardly absurd for United fans to mock him because he's been quite a bit rubbish for them.
As for the point about Carrick and Scholes, sometimes as a team things just don't work out. As a team we didn't match their energy. But in particular, Carrick has always had a tendancy to lose his passing accuracy and game in general when you get in his face, and Scholes doesn't really have the legs to consistently shine in games when the same happens. So there's every chance of this combination, especially on a bad day, struggling against a midfield and team that are high on energy.
And as for Anderson, yes, he may well have made a difference. But IMO for games like this you need a midfield with enough bite and one player at least who can match the aggression of the occasion in the tackle. Fletcher and Hargreaves are the ones who can do that for us. And playing two midfielders who can't hurt us deeply.
There's a reason fans adore players whose best performance comes in the biggest games against their most bitter rivals, a reason that you - unsurprisingly - have failed to grasp.
He really hasn't. He's been asked to replace arguably Liverpool's most important player and has been playing in front of a central defensive pairing who have made a woeful start to the season but he's been by no means dire. He's just been a convenient scapegoat for all their problems.
I'm not talking about just this season. He's been dire all along since he joined. He's just looked like an average footballer throughout.
Djemba-Djemba also had tons of excuses regarding the team surrounding him for his performances but in the end he was an average player, and there were others in that United team who were playing well. Just like there have been many players who have been very good during Lucas' time at Liverpool and he on his own has managed to pull awful performances out of the hat.
It seems as if you almost want to will his poor showings so far as a Liverpool player into something better than what they've been. There will be underrating always when a player performs poorly, that doesn't mean he didn't. And usually a scapegoat isn't always responsible for a teams failure, but is considered so because he's been one of the poorer performers. He's certainly been one of Liverpool's since he joined.
On the other hand, Anderson has been inconsistent but inconsistently good like all top raw talents are. Huge difference.
There's no difference whatsoever.
To be fair, he put his point across poorly but what he probably means is that these type of games often make players like Lucas better than what they really are.
Like Phil Neville against Arsenal. He was so effective against them, but again, he was like a weapon of ours that seemed to be made at the time for those games against them.
Again, let me just clarify that I don't think Lucas is totally rubbish. I think he's been rubbish for them so far but can become a decent squad player with a good engine. The opposite of Anderson who seems to be taking time to tune his engine, and is further away from his full potential, but that potential is ridiculously good, and he's the better right now as well.
Let me put it this way, if Lucas and Anderson are the future of the Liverpool and United midfields respectively, the future is much brighter for us than it is for them.
So there's no difference between a decent player putting out a good performance after a year of being rubbish, and a top talent being inconsistant, showing a mixture of brilliance and immaturity? Righto.
It's like saying there's no difference between Anderson and a bottom half team's central midfielder who's decent. I know who I'd rather have.
Anderson's been inconsistently good for us. Lucas has been consistently poor. There's the difference, to put it simply.
At this point Pogue is just arguing for the sake of arguing. He bumped the thread to have some pot shots at our players, specifically Anderson
He's been pretty much dire whenever I've watched Liverpool this season.
His perfomances always stand out to me, and it's not because he's been great.
He's got a lot of determination and heart, I just don't think it's enough.
I don't think he did it for that reason actually, more to tell the rest of us that we were wrong in rating Lucas so low, based on one performance which clearly makes him so much better. Well, it doesn't because he needs to do it regularly. One good performance against a pedestrian United midfield doesn't overshadow his previous dire showings for the last year or so.
Didn't even realise Pogue was the one who bumped the thread, though I should have guessed.
I don't think he wanted to have a pop at Anderson as much as praise Lucas, who he's backed in the past - which, now that I think of it, was the last time we met Liverpool.
A bit of a "I told you so" moment. We all have them.
Lucas' performance sort of reminded me of the one that Alan Smith put up against Chelsea when we beat them 1-0 at Old Trafford.
I'm just amazed you haven't dragged Ronaldo into the discussion yet. Now's your chance. I've done it for you. Knock yourself out.
...and it continues
No.
He is a player who has one outstanding(debatable) game, likely to be followed a number of mediocre displays, and will be criticized by Liverpool fans in weeks to come.
To be honest, the only full Liverpool games I've watched this season was us and Chelsea. I thought Lucas was very good in both games. fecker seems to always play well against us.
I don't think he'll ever be a world-beater but he could end up providing for them what Fletcher provides for us and we all know how important Fletcher has become (well, all of us apart from mozza anyway)
Respond to my post Pogue. I can't figure out how you can't see the difference between the two. There's a reason Anderson doesn't have fans on his back. He's been good for us these two and a bit years. Like all top talents, at times great and others frustrating but alright. Lucas has been disaster for them so far. And I'm talking about since they both joined. So as I said, big difference.
There was a good period where I remember people were saying Anderson made it feel like Scholes wasn't missing when he started starting for us the first few months. Lucas has never been like that. When he got opportunities ahead of more accomplished players like Alonso, he reminded everyone how good those players were. That says it all really.
Interesting how you base your review of a player on two matches this season, no youtube videos???
I didn't respond to your post as you were doing your usual trick of completely missing the point and somehow feeling the need to prove that Anderson is a better player than Lucas. I have no idea why you're trying to convince me that this is the case.
And why is this season suddenly the be all and end all of a player. He's been woeful before this season as well.
How many 90 minute Liverpool games have you watched this season? You don't think two quality performances in Liverpool's toughest games means anything? That was enough to earn Anderson his own song.
More to the point, have you anything constructive to add to the discussion about Lucas? Or do you only like to talk about Ronaldo?
No you've missed the point yet again. I said 'big difference' between Lucas and Anderson in their respective careers with their current clubs. You said there's no difference whatsoever. I again made clarified why there is a difference. So that's just as far away from missing the point as there can be. I was simply responding to your claim that there hasn't been any difference between Lucas for Liverpool and Anderson for United.
Besides, even letting that go, what's more bizarre is that you think people should never have thought Lucas was terrible all this while, based on the past game. This game doesn't change the fact that he's been woeful. I've tried to put that across to you but you conveniently ignore it citing two games you've seen. Nice.
To try for the last time, Lucas has more often than not been the weakest link of this Liverpool side whereas Anderson has rarely ever been our weakest link, he's a much better player than that. I mean, who actually cringes when they see Anderson's name in the line up? Top talent and time will turn him from a good player hopefully into a great one.
I have watched them thrice this year. I don't think Lucas played well yesterday so much that Scholes and Carrick were utter shit, hell most of the team was. Why are you so obsessed with other teams players?
Here's the bit of your post I highlighted in bold.
This is, of course, bollox. There's no difference whatsoever between being inconsistently good and plain old inconsistent. When I pointed this out to you, you spewed out reams of text trying to argue that Anderson is better than Lucas, completely missing the point of my latest comment, not to mention everything I've said in this thread today. You seem determined to defend Anderson against a criticism which doesn't even exist.
feck knows what tangent you're gonna go off on next.
Lucas is an odd one. He has the quality and game intelligence to do well in the majority of games against top teams (nightmarish performance against chelsea in last year's CL notwithstanding). Keeps things ticking and puts in a good shift defensively, which is a valuable asset in midfield against top teams.
But then when we play the bottom teams he doesn't really up his game despite the inferior opposition. The midfield doesn't really need the added protection and as a player who simply keeps things ticking, we end up not getting enough from central midfield when mascherano is his partner (as is usually the case), which is where it really shows that he is no Alonso.
Done very well in the holding role when paired with gerrard though. A better passer than mascherano and still quite decent defensively.
I do think United fans tend to overrate Anderson. He really needs to step up his game. He's still young and raw. But some on here act like he's this world-class, game-changing force when he's not at all. Might be someday but not today.
Agreed, he's far from being great and quite a few people act like he already is.
Probably the difference between being a league winning team and not...
Are u from Mars ? I've asked all my friends that support Liverpool and watches every Liverppol match and even they don't dare say the word Lucas has quality and intelligence. They all think that the fact Lucas is even getting minutes in the L'pool shirt is because he is secretly dating Rafa.
Lucas has been poor, giving stupid freekicks, scoring own goals and yet you're saying he is good defensively after one good game ?
Likewise Anderson has shown glimpse of talent ever since his he started playing in a 2 man MF which of course he isn't used to as before this he was a freerole player and hardly had to defend. He has upped his defensive qualities immensely sinced he joined us and is gaining experience to use his attacking attributes to unlock defense. Again, this boy can already hold the ball, spray a good pass, and can unlock defenses with his pacey dribble when he needs to. We just haven't seen enough of his attacking flair yet but I'm sure theres more to come from young Anderson.
Considering how long United waited for Fletcher to develop, they would be wise to do the same for the far more talented Anderson. Patience isn;t the most popular thing in the modern game especially with the fans, but it certainly can be rewarded.
Can anyone but a Liverpool fan do such a thing?
I occassionally watch them as most of my friends support them. Tell u the truth I've never seen them dominate games or win games with beautiful football. I'm still deluded to why my friends tend to go for them. Maybe it's because the girls like Gerrard ?
Lucas will be benched when Aquillani and the Prodigal return, whereas Anderson will continue to get games...therefore the argument is rendered irrelavent
Spot on
If that's a polite way of saying between shit and potentially very good, then yeah.
I agree with the part in bold but not with the Scholes and Carrick criticism. Looking at it objectively, the only thing that may perhaps have given an illusion that Lucas Leiva played well is the fact that he was constantly involved in the action. That doesn't mean that he made a positive contribution, far from it.
Christofaux got it spot on, he really doesn't look like he is anything special and certainly isn't better than Anderson even in Retardville. Nigel Reo Coker would have played better than him on Sunday.