People didn't have to admit anything because he's largely been woeful for them. He seems to be improving now but that has nothing to do with previous mockings/ criticisms. Anderson is the better player but Lucas did play well yesterday. Much of that has to do with our awful-ness.
People didn't have to admit anything because he's largely been woeful for them. He seems to be improving now but that has nothing to do with previous mockings/ criticisms. Anderson is the better player but Lucas did play well yesterday. Much of that has to do with our awful-ness.
Is he though? That's the issue. Surely he would be getting more than the ocassional run out in the United team if he was that good.
Anderson is a far better player and by a long way.Lucas however yesterday put the work in and what he lacks in quality was made up for by workrate.Too many of our players yesterday couldnt match him and a few of his teammates for hunger and workrate.
He does get more than that. He's been very good this season IMO obviously.
The thing with our midfield, M'n'M, is that we have a number of good midfielders but noone top quality.
Scholes on his day when given time and space to do his thing, when his lack of legs don't act as a hinderance, can be very good.
Carrick when on form is a good midfielder. Sadly he's woefully out of form.
Fletcher's been our best midfielder by far and has been excellent this season. The only one whose performances demand a starting place. Should be one of the first names of the team sheet and usually is.
Finally Anderson whose more gifted than the latter two put together for me. Didn't have the best of seasons last year but has started this one well.
The point I'm trying to make is that apart from Fletcher, noone has made a claim to be an automatic starter, hence, we always rotate in the centre of midfield. It's one position where you rarely see us start with the same players for three successive games. That and the fact that Anderson is very young and seems of often lack a bit of stamina are the reasons he doesn't start all the time.
Also, it has to be noted that we've turned Anderson into a central midfielder. He's an attacking midfielder who likes playing a little further forward who is learning the trade of playing in the heart of midfield, WITH us. So things like positioning are always going to take some time to master.
All in all, I've enjoyed his brief performances this season. And you're entitled to your own opinion, but for me Lucas has very little competition in the centre of midfield. And IMO Anderson is a much better player and in terms of ability and potential, he is streets ahead. Still obviously far away from fulfilling it.
Good post. I'm not saying Lucas is better than Anderson or that Anderson is better than Lucas. It's a pointless opinion but you at least put your opinion across well. I'm am however confused how some others can just categorically say that Anderson is better when he can't even win a starting place is a "mediocre" United midfield. That is not a dig at United as you have said pretty much the same in your post. I think Hargreaves is the man for you and the sooner you get him back the better for you. You could have done with him yesterday.
If we swapped Anderson for Lucas, then Anderson would be starting every game for Liverpool. The reason he's not starting every games for us is because we have more varied options in the centre of the park than Liverpool have.
Playing as many games as Lucas has, so far this season, would also probably considerably improve Anderson as a player. I happen to think that they are very different players and we could do with someone that has the same qualities as Lucas, to provide back-up for Fletcher.
Unfortunately for us, we're still trying to find Anderson's best position, he is still quite inconsistent and needs to work even harder on his stamina, all of which means that we could do with someone a bit "vanilla" like Lucas, rather than the more mercurial qualities that Anderson provides and are a bit un-balanced and over-reliant on Fletch as a result.
What we could have done with yesterday was a twenty five year old Roy Keane, Lucas would have been in a body bag by half time. Congrats on the win BTW M'n'M.
I don't think our midfield is mediocre but we have a lot of good players with noone outstanding. And we have too many players that are 'horses for courses' players rather than 'horses that are good enough for any frickin course' players.
And Anderson due to his age, and the fact that the others too have their strengths, doesn't start so much, and his learning of the position. To put it simply, if you had Carrick, Scholes, Fletcher and Hargreaves in the Liverpool squad, how much would Lucas start?
Also, I personally think Fletcher was the man we needed yesterday just like the champions league final. It was the absolute wrong midfield to go with. Carrick always struggles these days when teams get in his face and Scholes doesn't have the legs to play 90 good minutes in a game like yesterdays. It was actually the worst combination. The other three, Anderson, Hargreaves and Fletcher are much more combative.
But as I said I'd go with Fletcher. Most United fans that have watched us this season will acknowledged that he's been the stand out player for us along with Giggs this season. He's been absolutely terrific winning MOTM worthy performances game after game. It's a no brainer for me, he's been our best so far and he's made for games like these.
Lucas looks like he is closer to his potential then Anderson.
However Lucas potential seems to be more your Bullard level of player at best... infact not even. Anderson looks to have the potential to be world class if he could get some consistency and goals about him, but at the moment he looks as if he wants to be Eboue when he grows up.
However Lucas potential seems to be more your Bullard level of player at best... infact not even. Anderson looks to have the potential to be world class if he could get some consistency and goals about him, but at the moment he looks as if he wants to be Eboue when he grows up.
The difference between £6m and £18m you mean?
Very good post Pogue.
This is pretty much spot on apart from the last bit. Not because it's the only thing negative in the post about Anderson but more so because if it was said last season it could be closer to the truth but based on this and his first season with us. He's been good this season so far.
The difference between spending £18m on one player who you think can be truly great and £6m on three players who can be quite good. The difference, in other words, between the transfer strategies of SAF and Rafa Benitez.
Agreed, barring the last bit of course.
I've probably been a bit too critical of Lucas in the past, but I suppose I'll stand by my original position that Anderson is not only a better footballer now, but potentially an unbelievable midfielder. Can you even imagine the damage Anderson and Fabregas could do as a midfield pairing in a few years?
He's not flawless by any means, or even particularly close to being anywhere near the player he should be. Anderson's problem does not lie with his technical ability - it's in his inexperience. Positionally, when we're in attacking, he infuriates me, which is hopefully down to a lack of fitness and knowledge as opposed to an unwillngess to have the ball! But fecking hell, if he sorts that out, he could be our Essien. He's almost unbeatable one on one, he's frighteningly good at attacking space, "King of the Through Ball"(Pique's words
) and he's probably the most powerful player in the team, though there's very little between him and Rooney on that count.I often go off on one when I start chatting about this guy sheerly because of how brilliant he could be. I bet I'll look like a right idiot in a few years.
Christofaux got that spot on.
Bullshit!
Anderson couldn't roll one feet, yet alone the length of a pitch - I mean, have you seen the size of his arse? He'd just kind of wobble back and forth unable to get up - kind of like a turtle.
That wasn't really my point. I don't want to get into a whole netspend debate although Kraftwerker is always quick to unload that cockeyed weapon.
We spent £6m on Lucas as a squad player who has the potential to step up to the plate. This season he is getting his chance to do so he will have to continue to prove himself when Aquilani is fit.
You spent £18m on a player who you think can be truly great but at the moment has shown no more than Lucas who cost £6m. It's still too early to say which player will be more beneficial to their respective team as it is early in their careers but I would argue at the moment Liverpool are getting better "value for money" than united.
At what point do you start to wonder if Anderson will in fact reach the potential that you all think he has. I'l be honest and say I haven't seen too much of him but that's because he can't get in the team.
Spending £18m on one player instead of £6m on 3 (to use your analogy) doesn't guarantee anything.
Your net spend under Rafa is £100m more than ours. One hundred fecking million.
boohoo
No, it's a risk, but the very best managers take risks and make them successful, that's true for all managers not just football managers.
Benitez tends to shy away from taking risks a bit too often to take him up that level, whether it's paying the big money for one big signings instead of three smaller ones or it's going into a game with a lot of attacking intent.
If the ref had treated Lucas like he did Evra he would have been off in the first half.His game was based on constant fouling and he got away with it along with his mates Carragher and Mascherano,comparison to Anderson give me a break
I think it's fair to say that signing Aquilani for big money is a bit of a risk. I'll hope it pays off anyway. But on the whole I agree with your point re singings but not the attacking intent bit. Without digging out the stats I think we put that to bed last season and will continue to do so this season with the signings of Johnson and Aquilani. Hopefully.
I refer you the the second part of post #535
A big amount of your goals last season came after going 1-0 down, iirc, which s when Benitez was forced to take a risk rather than decided to himself.
Johnson and Aquilani should help though, yep.
Typical scouse response ,shows the intelligence levels
So instead of admitting Scholes was out of his depth playing in a two man mid yesterday(alongside Carrick), that we were lacking pace and the ability to press with the inclusion of Giggs,Scholes and Carrick in the same midfield.. thus allowing the likes of Lucas, Mascherano the freedom of Anfield... Pogue would rather say how great Lucas was and how we were slain by this mighty Brazillian and in the process demean Anderson's contribution this season.
Anderson>>Lucas.. anyone that's seen that blond pussies consistent monumental feck up's in a liverpool shirt wouldn't say otherwise. We made him looked good.. with our crappiness yesterday, nothing more nothing less.
Anderson>>Lucas.. anyone that's seen that blond pussies consistent monumental feck up's in a liverpool shirt wouldn't say otherwise. We made him looked good.. with our crappiness yesterday, nothing more nothing less.
Yeah, imagine playing a midfield with Carrick, Scholes and Giggs in it all at the same time. What a shower of shite. Surprised we didn't get beaten by more really.
If only the mighty Anderson had been available to save our bacon, everything would have been fine...
It was quite a bad idea to start with Carrick and Scholes in the center of the park, United were always going to get outworked
If Lucas really is as shit as people made out, earlier in this thread, a midfield of Scholes and Carrick should have easily been able to cope against him and Mascherano (Liverpool started with the exact same formation as us). Which is why I bumped the thread.
People like Mozza would have us believe that the passing ability of Carrick and Scholes would be too much for most midfields, never mind one that consisted of Mascherano and a redcafe laughing stock.
Carry on rubbishing our own Brazillian whilst feting the Average Lucas as the second coming of Christ, despite the fact he has played crap on numerous occasions and booed by his own fans.. feck we even made N'gog, Dossena cult heroes, but no they must be great players seeing as they've played well against us in their respective careers.
You do realise that Giggs and Scholes have been two of our best players this season Raees, both better than Anderson so far(regardless of the reason why, it is true) so saying that playing them in midfield will lead to us getting overrun is ridiculous, to be honest.
Our midfield was much better than our strikers, and there wasn't a lot between our defence and midfield in terms of performance.
There was no big problem with our midfield, and Anderson wouldn't have been the key to solving it either.
Our midfield was much better than our strikers, and there wasn't a lot between our defence and midfield in terms of performance.
There was no big problem with our midfield, and Anderson wouldn't have been the key to solving it either.
Oh wind your neck in and stop being so hysterical. Your comments are daft enough as it is, putting them in bold does you no favours.
Just because they've been our best players doesn't mean they should be employed in big games together.. youth, energy is just as essential as experience.
Chelsea have loads of experience, but for me they lack youth, pace in the side and they'll get found out against a fast, physical team who's prepared to take them on.
Arsenal over emphasise youthfulness/energy and don't have much experience and often go missing in the big games.
I think we have the perfect mix in our squad, but we have to be sensible and make sure the team is balanced. You can't expect Carrick-Scholes and giggs on the left wing against a top four team away from home to keep the ball, pressure the opposition..I'm sorry you just can't.
Giggs and Scholesy have a big part to play for us, but we have to make it easy for them and not overuse them, their qualities need to be complemented and allied with pace, energy from other players.
Carrick has been off the pace all year, and Scholes doesnt excel in these games anymore unless he has two men next to him in the center of the pitch. Had United started with Anderson and Fletcher the game would have been entirely different. I'm not saying that Carrick adn Scholes are shit, but a 4-4-2 isnt a good formation for them, when one is in a poor run of form and the other lacks the legs to the running all match
Lucas is shit, he's not better than Greening in my opinion
Pogue you're just a sit on the fence type of guy, everythings rosy, everythings great.. unlucky on the day.. Scholes-Carrick with abit of luck, they'd beat Chelsea/Arsenal.. maybe even take on Barca.
We were unlucky that Lucas-Mascherano-Aurelio outplayed us on the day... wait a minute they actually didn't because Scholes pass completion was 98% so all is good, yay.. seriously take off the red-tinted spectacles and accept we're not perfect and that Fergie can get it wrong at times.
It's not knee-jerk and spastic to question him, otherwise why the feck are we even on a forum.
He'd looked like he was getting back to his best in his last couple of games and is someone who would usually always start a game like this. Fletcher was injured and was a major loss, I agree.
As for Anderson I think his flakey passing and lack of defensive nous would have caused us to be even more overrun than we were, in a midfield two.
Personally, I would have liked to see us line up with three in midfield and play in exactly the same way we did in Moscow. SAF obviously thought Liverpool were there for the taking and went at them with a 442 and a midfield pairing that is as good as any on it's day. Turns out they didn't quite click and Masch/Leiva played out of their skin. Ho hum. Shit happens, I'm not gonna get my knickers in a knot about SAF keeping true to the traditions of this club by being gung ho and trying to put the sword to a Liverpool side that, on paper, we should have mullered.
No it's not but it's extremely hysterical to react the way you just did to a thread pointing out that Lucas is better than many on here give him credit for.
Most United fans won't admit that Lucas isn't as shit they initially thought because of pure bias.Hell even when him and Anderson featured for Brazil, only him really played well.