Ander Herrera is a Manchester United Player!

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United simply hasn't been challenging to be the best club in the world for the last 5 years. Barcelona has been the top tier alone between '09-'12 and after that Real Madrid and Bayern has taken over, together with Barcelona and Dortmund.

What Arro means is that we have been a top 5-10 club for half a decade now rather than the top 1-2 club we were between 06-09. The biggest talents wants to go to the biggest clubs, which is why Herrera would be the 6th best central midfielder at Bayern but he is going to be the by far best at United.

There is a huge difference in quality through-out the entire pitch and the same is true when we are compared to Real Madrid or Barcelona as well. Gustavo was sold by Bayern for not being able to get game-time, he would be a dream signing for us so we are at a phase where the best clubs rejects are wonderful improvements to our team.

We can't sign the Neymar/Ronaldo/Martinez of the world, we have to focus on players who in one way or another hasn't attracted the eyes of the top 3 clubs in the world. Mata is our best player, and biggest transfer and he was a Chelsea reject which was the only reason we had a chance to pick him up.

We have made brilliant signings in Mata and Herrera though, they have the quality needed if we continue recruiting just a few more players, to be a part of a real top team. It isn't all about the players though, Dortmund has been a top team the last couple of years by nailing the tactics to a hundred percent and LVG can achieve something similar.
 
bri2013 said:
Interesting that you bolded a bit of my post, but not the most important bit.

The big question is whether or not the player buys into what Manchester United is about, and if they do, they will come
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But thats a load of sentimental bollocks that basically applies to no transfer in today's world. Players care about money and success. Not what the club 'is about'

bri2013 said:
why is it crap?? We have spent over £100m on players in the last 12 months, with more to come!
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So? That doesn't mean we can compete with anyone in the market, when we plainly can't. We've been beaten to about 5 transfers alone just from Chelsea in the last few years.
 
Sam said:
But thats a load of sentimental bollocks that basically applies to no transfer in today's world. Players care about money and success. Not what the club 'is about'



So? That doesn't mean we can compete with anyone in the market, when we plainly can't. We've been beaten to about 5 transfers alone just from Chelsea in the last few years.
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1. Hazard

Care to name the other 4?
 
How much money have Bayern spent on transfers and wages compared to us in the last 5 years?
I keep hearing how Bayern is amongst the clubs who can better is in the transfer market but would like to see some evidence.
 
Rezyuz said:
I got a feeling i stepped on a few people's penises.:lol:
Everyone that quoted me and went nuts, don't forget how blinded you are about this transfer simply because we are United fans and pretty desperate atm. On every other football website people are saying the same.

And even tough this might be what we need after all, and that the price is worth it in the end. Its still a big difference from the United we used to be.
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Yup, Blind is a good player.
Very true. Ignoring them would be the best advice.

Do you have contacts with the Dutch players and can you share some news on potential transfers?
 
Annahnomoss said:
United simply hasn't been challenging to be the best club in the world for the last 5 years. Barcelona has been the top tier alone between '09-'12 and after that Real Madrid and Bayern has taken over, together with Barcelona and Dortmund.
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Take a step back and think about what you've just said. Dortmund bigger than United? feck off.
 
Adnan said:
How much money have Bayern spent on transfers and wages compared to us in the last 5 years?
I keep hearing how Bayern is amongst the clubs who can better is in the transfer market but would like to see some evidence.
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Well, they get everyone in Germany as the only elite club in the country. Martinez went for huge money, Lewandowski this year, Goetze last year, Neuer before that.
 
walsh said:
You count those as the last few years? Really scraping the barrel there.
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Scrapping the barrel ? Thats 5 signings alone in the last what, 8 years? From just one club. A club that so many on here put down, and act like we're far superior too.

Some of you lot are living in cloud cuckoo land you really are.
 
forevrared said:
Take a step back and think about what you've just said. Dortmund bigger than United? feck off.
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As sad as it is, yes Dortmund has been a better club than United the last 3 years and it is hard to dispute that. Last year we were a worse club than Everton and Tottenham unfortunately. Currently we are ranked as the 26th best team in the world, which of course isn't accurate but it shows that we are light-years from competing to be the best club in the world right now.
 
Annahnomoss said:
United simply hasn't been challenging to be the best club in the world for the last 5 years. Barcelona has been the top tier alone between '09-'12 and after that Real Madrid and Bayern has taken over, together with Barcelona and Dortmund.

What Arro means is that we have been a top 5-10 club for half a decade now rather than the top 1-2 club we were between 06-09. The biggest talents wants to go to the biggest clubs, which is why Herrera would be the 6th best central midfielder at Bayern but he is going to be the by far best at United.

There is a huge difference in quality through-out the entire pitch and the same is true when we are compared to Real Madrid or Barcelona as well. Gustavo was sold by Bayern for not being able to get game-time, he would be a dream signing for us so we are at a phase where the best clubs rejects are wonderful improvements to our team.

We can't sign the Neymar/Ronaldo/Martinez of the world, we have to focus on players who in one way or another hasn't attracted the eyes of the top 3 clubs in the world. Mata is our best player, and biggest transfer and he was a Chelsea reject which was the only reason we had a chance to pick him up.

We have made brilliant signings in Mata and Herrera though, they have the quality needed if we continue recruiting just a few more players, to be a part of a real top team. It isn't all about the players though, Dortmund has been a top team the last couple of years by nailing the tactics to a hundred percent and LVG can achieve something similar.
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What an absolute load of tripe. So when Bayern signed Robben, they were not a top club because he was a Real Madrid reject? Mata did not fit into Mou's philosophy and thus we got him. Else why would a domestic rival even contemplate selling their best player to us? We did not do it with Rooney.

Martinez is not jn the same bracket as Neymar/Ronaldo. I have no clue why you quoted him in that sentence of yours. He is an excellent player but let's not pretend that he is the cream of the crop.

This notion that United has fallen behind clubs like Dortmund is hilarious. The same Dortmund who have struggled to hold onto their players year after year? When it comes to transfers, every club is behind Barca and Real. There is no shame in accepting that. There are a lot of factors that come into play in this and it does not prove that they are a bigger club than us. Bayern get the cream of all German and Bundesliga talents as they are by far the biggest club in Germany. We have to compete with the likes of sugar daddies like Chelsea and City and thus the relative struggle to get the biggest players here. In fact, we still are able to get the biggest English talents more often than not.

I never understood the pleasure people seem to get by deriding the club the supposedly love. It almost feels like by talking like this they can appear to be more objective/knowledgeable about the game and thus their opinion is supposed to carry more weight. We make fun of Rawk for being delusional while some on here make special efforts to go in the other direction and moan and crib about their club. Strange behavior.
 
Sam said:
Scrapping the barrel ? Thats 5 signings alone in the last what, 8 years? From just one club. A club that so many on here put down, and act like we're far superior too.

Some of you lot are living in cloud cuckoo land you really are.
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How am I living in cloud cuckoo land? I'm just questioning a comment you made, I'm not arguing we're the biggest club in the world. IIRC Robben signed in about 2004 so we're talking 10 years ago. We're paying bigger wages than ever before and Chelsea are having to be more and more careful because of FFP, something that doesn't trouble us despite the huge debts of the club. We generate as much/more money than any club in the world, who do we not compete with exactly? The only area that we are notably behind in is on the playing field, and that's only in the last year! If you're counting the last 10 years as recent then you can surely remember how many CL finals we were in and PL titles we won in the last 6?
 
Annahnomoss said:
As sad as it is, yes Dortmund has been a better club than United the last 3 years and it is hard to dispute that. Last year we were a worse club than Everton and Tottenham unfortunately. Currently we are ranked as the 26th best team in the world, which of course isn't accurate but it shows that we are light-years from competing to be the best club in the world right now.
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:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
gooDevil said:
Well, they get everyone in Germany as the only elite club in the country. Martinez went for huge money, Lewandowski this year, Goetze last year, Neuer before that.
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Lewandowski was a free transfer if i'm not mistaken and Martinez, Goetze and Neuer have been their three biggest signing in-terms of financial outlay. I'm pretty confident we have spent more on transfers and wages than them in the last 5 years but they have been very shrewd operators in the market which i'm very impressed by, and feel Bayern and Dortmund should be the model we should follow when recruiting players.
 
NK86 said:
What an absolute load of tripe. So when Bayern signed Robben, they were not a top club because he was a Real Madrid reject? Mata did not fit into Mou's philosophy and thus we got him. Else why would a domestic rival even contemplate selling their best player to us? We did not do it with Rooney.

Martinez is not jn the same bracket as Neymar/Ronaldo. I have no clue why you quoted him in that sentence of yours. He is an excellent player but let's not pretend that he is the cream of the crop.

This notion that United has fallen behind clubs like Dortmund is hilarious. The same Dortmund who have struggled to hold onto their players year after year? When it comes to transfers, every club is behind Barca and Real. There is no shame in accepting that. There are a lot of factors that come into play in this and it does not prove that they are a bigger club than us. Bayern get the cream of all German and Bundesliga talents as they are by far the biggest
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The team who couldn't persuade one of their very best performing players to stay with them over joining us a couple of years ago. People are just doom mongers and somehow turn us signing a quality young midfielder into a sign of negative trends.
 
Annahnomoss said:
As sad as it is, yes Dortmund has been a better club than United the last 3 years and it is hard to dispute that. Last year we were a worse club than Everton and Tottenham unfortunately. Currently we are ranked as the 26th best team in the world, which of course isn't accurate but it shows that we are light-years from competing to be the best club in the world right now.
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:lol: Have you lost your mind?
 
Annahnomoss said:
As sad as it is, yes Dortmund has been a better club than United the last 3 years and it is hard to dispute that. Last year we were a worse club than Everton and Tottenham unfortunately. Currently we are ranked as the 26th best team in the world, which of course isn't accurate but it shows that we are light-years from competing to be the best club in the world right now.
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You're talking about a completely different thing though. The discussion was about how attractive we are to players and how well we can compete in the market. Who the feck would sign for Spurs or Everton over United?
 
pseudo_canadian said:
:lol: Have you lost your mind?
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Trying to act objective makes some posters believe that they are making more sense. You could sign Messi and still they will find a way to moan about how we only got Messi because Barca want the money and not because he wants to play for us.
 
walsh said:
How am I living in cloud cuckoo land? I'm just questioning a comment you made, I'm not arguing we're the biggest club in the world. IIRC Robben signed in about 2004 so we're talking 10 years ago. We're paying bigger wages than ever before and Chelsea are having to be more and more careful because of FFP, something that doesn't trouble us despite the huge debts of the club. We generate as much/more money than any club in the world, who do we not compete with exactly? The only area that we are notably behind in is on the playing field, and that's only in the last year! If you're counting the last 10 years as recent then you can surely remember how many CL finals we were in and PL titles we won in the last 6?
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I'm not arguing about our success, or how much money we generate, or might spend in the future. I'm arguing the point that we 'can compete with anyone' for signings. And I'm sorry, but as of right now, we can't, and we don't. Will we in the future? Who knows, I'd like to think so. But right now, we're clearly behind the likes of Madrid, Barca and Chelsea when it comes to competing for big money signings.
 
NK86 said:
What an absolute load of tripe. So when Bayern signed Robben, they were not a top club because he was a Real Madrid reject? Mata did not fit into Mou's philosophy and thus we got him. Else why would a domestic rival even contemplate selling their best player to us? We did not do it with Rooney.

Martinez is not jn the same bracket as Neymar/Ronaldo. I have no clue why you quoted him in that sentence of yours. He is an excellent player but let's not pretend that he is the cream of the crop.

This notion that United has fallen behind clubs like Dortmund is hilarious. The same Dortmund who have struggled to hold onto their players year after year? When it comes to transfers, every club is behind Barca and Real. There is no shame in accepting that. There are a lot of factors that come into play in this and it does not prove that they are a bigger club than us. Bayern get the cream of all German and Bundesliga talents as they are by far the biggest club in Germany. We have to compete with the likes of sugar daddies like Chelsea and City and thus the relative struggle to get the biggest players here. In fact, we still are able to get the biggest English talents more often than not.

I never understood the pleasure people seem to get by deriding the club the supposedly love. It almost feels like by talking like this they can appear to be more objective/knowledgeable about the game and thus their opinion is supposed to carry more weight. We make fun of Rawk for being delusional while some on here make special efforts to go in the other direction and moan and crib about their club. Strange behavior.
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Anybody saying Bayern were challenging as having the worlds best team between 2001-02 until Robben joined must be delusional. They didn't make it further than the Quarter-finals until LVG came and brought them to the final in 09-10. Robben was also not considered to be one of the best in the world at the time, LVG made him perform better than he had before which is why he went for 25 millions.

Martinez is the best defensive box to box midfielder in the world so he is cream of the crop for his position/role whereas someone like Herrera who I think will be great for us is still far from even challenging to be the best offensively minded CM in the world.

We haven't challenged Bayern lately as the best club in the world nor on the transfer market. They have strengthened with Lewandowski, Martinez, Gotze, Thiago and Neuer etc. All players sought after by most clubs in the world with Lewa being the only exclusion so I don't think we can really compete with them in the transfer market.

It should be noted that they pay nearly half of our wages to their top players so players go there despite getting much less money.
 
NK86 said:
Trying to act objective makes some posters believe that they are making more sense. You could sign Messi and still they will find a way to moan about how we only got Messi because Barca want the money and not because he wants to play for us.
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Yeah, the lengths people will go.
 
Rezyuz said:
Is it just be who finds this a embarrassing transfer?

I mean are you lot just a big bunch of hypocrites or are you that desperate to support shit like this? People going crazy cuz we finally get a midfielder. But at what price?! For his quality??!!

How many times did you people flame city, real, PSG or Chelsea about this?

Paying to price for top players is fine. Paying 36 mil for a player like Ander Herrera is pure madness at United. And the beauty of all, Fabregas 33 mil, Kroos 25 mil, Herrera 36 mil lmao.
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Obviously you seem to have a fairly strong opinion about the quality of Ander Herrera and it'd be interesting to know how and where you formed it. I suspect it is just because he's a name you don't recognize or respect yet. But moving on from that, let's talk money. Because you pulled some spurious figures out of the air.

Firstly lets compare Fabregas and Herrera. Fabregas signed for 29.5M (Pounds) and has an annual salary of 8.1M. Players transfer fees are amortized over the duration of their contract for PPF and accounting purposes, so with Fabregas' contract being for 5 years, he will cost Chelsea 14M per season. Or a total of 70M over 5 seasons.

Herrera is being signed for 28.8M and is according to all available sources at this time, signing a contract worth approximately 4.5M per season. That means he'll cost United 11.7 per season over the next four years, or a total of 46.8M. That's a big difference.

If you equalize the contracts so that, say for example Ander's is for 5 seasons instead of 4, then Herrera will cost the club 10.26M per season or 51.3 over 5 years.

That's a difference of 18.7M. When both 5 years contracts expire, Herrera will be 29 and Fabregas will be 32. So sell on value and years of valuable service are to be considered also.

Kroos' potential contract is moot because he hasn't signed one but if reports are to be believe he is looking for 250k per week. That's 12M per season. Let's say, for argument's sake, that we take your suggested transfer fee of 25M and amortize it over a 5 year contract. That's 17M per season the player will cost the club. Or 85M in total. 15M more than Fabregas and 33.7M more than Herrera. This doesn't even broach the subject of whether he's the right player for Van Gaal's system. Van Gaal obviously doesn't think so; but then again he hasn't heard your expert opinion on the subject.

Of course contracts can change etc, but it's not as simple as just throwing numbers around in the manner you have done. I'll leave the coaching and scouting to the professionals like Louis Van Gaal, a man legendary in spotting and developing talent. Just like I'll leave the knicker twisting and hissy fits to another professional in its respective field; you.
 
Sam said:
I'm not arguing about our success, or how much money we generate, or might spend in the future. I'm arguing the point that we 'can compete with anyone' for signings. And I'm sorry, but as of right now, we can't, and we don't. Will we in the future? Who knows, I'd like to think so. But right now, we're clearly behind the likes of Madrid, Barca and Chelsea when it comes to competing for big money signings.
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Yup, we aren't willing to spend more than Real/Monaco/PSG/Chelsea/Bayern/City and we aren't more attractive as of now than Bayern/Barca/Real.
 
Annahnomoss said:
As sad as it is, yes Dortmund has been a better club than United the last 3 years and it is hard to dispute that. Last year we were a worse club than Everton and Tottenham unfortunately. Currently we are ranked as the 26th best team in the world, which of course isn't accurate but it shows that we are light-years from competing to be the best club in the world right now.
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Dortmund have been a better than us for some seasons i accept that but as a club they're not even close to where we're.

When Bayern failed to make top 3 in the Bundesliga in 2007 did you think they were light years behind the best clubs in Europe?
 
Annahnomoss said:
Yup, we aren't willing to spend more than Real/Monaco/PSG/Chelsea/Bayern/City and we aren't more attractive as of now than Bayern/Barca/Real.
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I think thats a fair assesment. Its not a moan, or a dig at the club, its just where we're at right now.
 
Adnan said:
Dortmund have been a better than us for some seasons i accept that but as a club they're not even close to where we're.

When Bayern failed to make top 3 in the Bundesliga in 2007 did you think they were light years behind the best clubs in Europe?
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Like I already explained, Bayern and the Bundesliga in general were going through a rough patch by then and they recently got out of it and started challenging for the title as the best in the world again. Between 01-09 Bayern reached the quarter finals at best so quite clearly they weren't the best team in Europe in those years nor were they challenging to be.

They were in a position where United are now, a big club who were going through a rough patch trying to get back as the best team in the world. We can't compete with Bayern/Real/Barca in terms of attractiveness right now and we can't compete financially with PSG/Chelsea/Real/Monaco/City and so forth.

I also didn't mean that Dortmund is a greater club in history than United or have an easier time attracting targets or keeping them. I am talking about their abilities and from 11-14 they have been better than us.
 
Annahnomoss said:
Like I already explained, Bayern and the Bundesliga in general were going through a rough patch by then and they recently got out of it and started challenging for the title as the best in the world again. Between 01-09 Bayern reached the quarter finals at best so quite clearly they weren't the best team in Europe in those years nor were they challenging to be.

They were in a position where United are now, a big club who were going through a rough patch trying to get back as the best team in the world.

I also didn't mean that Dortmund is a greater club in history than United or have an easier time attracting targets or keeping them. I am talking about their abilities and from 11-14 they have been better than us.
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Would you have envisaged Bayern after what happened in 2007 to come back strongly and almost win the treble two years later?
 
Adnan said:
Would you have envisaged Bayern after what happened in 2007 to come back strongly and almost win the treble two years later?
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As I've followed LVG since his Ajax days I wouldn't have thought it was impossible, of course I would have assumed with LVG still at the helm.

The thing with clubs who are of great magnitude is that they always have their financials covered and they can compete, fail and try again in a way that smaller clubs can't. So it is inevitable that the team finds their way sooner or later as these days top clubs have such a huge advantage in comparison to how it used to be.

The sugar daddy clubs has proven this as well considering how well all of them are doing, even if they failed notoriously year after year.
 
Annahnomoss said:
Anybody saying Bayern were challenging as having the worlds best team between 2001-02 until Robben joined must be delusional. They didn't make it further than the Quarter-finals until LVG came and brought them to the final in 09-10. Robben was also not considered to be one of the best in the world at the time, LVG made him perform better than he had before which is why he went for 25 millions.

Martinez is the best defensive box to box midfielder in the world so he is cream of the crop for his position/role whereas someone like Herrera who I think will be great for us is still far from even challenging to be the best offensively minded CM in the world.

We haven't challenged Bayern lately as the best club in the world nor on the transfer market. They have strengthened with Lewandowski, Martinez, Gotze, Thiago and Neuer etc. All players sought after by most clubs in the world with Lewa being the only exclusion so I don't think we can really compete with them in the transfer market.

It should be noted that they pay nearly half of our wages to their top players so players go there despite getting much less money.
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Out of the 5 players you quoted, 3 are Germans or been plying their trade in the Bundlesliga. Bayern are a football powerhouse just like us so those players preferring to stay in Germany is not that big a deal. It proves that Bayern are a huge club, not necessarily bigger than us. We are on the brink of signing a potentially world class LB, so why aren't we considered a huge draw? Just because the kid is English? We signed RvP just 2 years back. You really have a short memory. That is proven when you said Robben signed for Bayern in early 2001-02.

Also, you seem to be confusing the concept of a big club with that of a currently more dominating one. Real kept failing in the early rounds of CL regularly and yet they were a bigger draw than all other more recently successful clubs. This success goes in cycles, but the greatness of the club does not diminish that easily. We were in th CLfinal just 3 seasons back ffs.

Edit: I don't think Martinez is the best box-to-box in the world. No way when you have the likes of Vidal around. Also if he was as good as you claim, Bayern or Bilbao would not have sacrificed that and played him in CB so often.
 
Is nobody else really wanting to see Xavi at United with Herrera here learning from him? It would be incredible.
 
NK86 said:
Out of the 5 players you quoted, 3 are Germans or been plying their trade in the Bundlesliga. Bayern are a football powerhouse just like us so those players preferring to stay in Germany is not that big a deal. It proves that Bayern are a huge club, not necessarily bigger than us. We are on the brink of signing a potentially world class LB, so why aren't we considered a huge draw? Just because the kid is English? We signed RvP just 2 years back. You really have a short memory. That is proven when you said Robben signed for Bayern in early 2001-02.

Also, you seem to be confusing the concept of a big club with that of a currently more dominating one. Real kept failing in the early rounds of CL regularly and yet they were a bigger draw than all other more recently successful clubs. This success goes in cycles, but the greatness of the club does not diminish that easily. We were in th CLfinal just 3 seasons back ffs.
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Yeah, I never said Robben joined them 01-02, I said they didn't reach further than the quarters in CL until Robben joined from 01-02. Take another shot at reading my post. Also we were in a CL final 4 seasons ago mate not three as you seem to believe. The reasons I haven't named Shaw as a reason why United are getting top talent is because he isn't a United player mate.


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